Marvel wave 44

[TM2 Dinobot]

There's nothing wrong with this wave exactly, it's just kinda awful

Okay, that statement needs some elaboration to make sense. (at least to me)

There's nothing that leaps out at me screaming "I'm the fly in the soup." But this seems to have an overall feel, to me anyways, of just "Oh. Soup. Again."

I think the reason there's some discontent here is that we've all just added (or are looking to add) unwanted Caps and Thors as we speak, so the prospect of MORE coming in the very near future isn't very appealing. There's just not enough about these new figures to distinguish them from the ones we already have. Tweak the designs all you want, they're still just tweaks. Moreover, we're not even getting anyone new with them; if I have to take "Cap in a Jacket" to get Armin Zola, and Kirby Thor to get Baldar the Brave, then so be it. But nobody new? No Falcon, no Zemo, no Enchantress, no Executioner? That just stinks, sorry to say.

I mentioned a few pages back that my biggest complaint with DST is that the long-term planning often seems poor, and I would say very basic Captain America and Thor figures in both waves 42 and 44 is poor planning. Let me give you another example: a few years ago, DST released a Secret Invasion set which included a First Appearance Wolverine. That figure took up a slot that could have gone to characters such as Yellowjacket or Captain Marvel, whom at the time had yet to me 'mated. Now, I'm sure from DST's perspective, FA Wolverine was the selling point of the set; I respectfully disagree. But what really gets my goat is that, a few months later, DST released "Wolverine Through the Ages" which didn't include an actual Wolverine figure. Now, in that case, FA Wolvie would have been a selling point, and made that set much more attractive. So, if you know W:TTA is coming, why not hold that figure for that set, and free up a slot for someone else?

I want to be clear that I say all this with a lot of love for DST; I think you guys do an overall great job. And I understand the reasons for cycling through the big guns over and over. I just wish there was more spacing, and more consideration for the core fans that keep this line alive and have already bought our fair share of Caps, Thors, Spideys, ect. As I said, we don't mind buying them again quite as much if it means getting someone new. But this Cap/Thor pack... well, I'll be curious to see how it does. I would not be surprised if retailers like Luke and BBTS have less full set orders; I know I at least will be cherry-picking.

I really agree. The feeling of blaze here might be because we JUST did this. But I also think that DST doesn't plan ahead. Of sure, they might plan 4 waves ahead, or even a year, but I doubt there's any grand, 10 year scheme. They don't take into account their aging target audience, like how Hasbro relaunches Transformers every 3 years. It just seems like they're STILL holding onto their seats, unable or unwilling to cope with the fact that their company is screaming down the highway at 90mph, while they're still planning waves on a napkin. (Not saying they really do that, but I think they might want to still do that.)

But who here is an actual completist? I didn't think very many of you were, if any.

I laughed.

[bilbofett]

I'm a competist( I compete with everyone here to get one of every Marvel minimate)

[Squall]

This was also an issue with Marvel Legends before. Many people complained why ToyBiz was wasting slots putting Wolverine, Ironman, Spiderman, Captain America, Hulk, etc. when they should be making new characters. I read that putting one of the top 10 in every series is important. Not everyone knows secondary characters but kids know Wolverine, Spiderman, Captain America (lets consider kids also as a target market, not only collectors). For ML, they only need to put one top 10 guy in every series. But it's a different story for DST.

I think the assortments were planned carefully. Take the Captain America and Arnim Zola on different perspectives for example;

-Collectors don't need another Cap, but they wanted a Zola. They buy the pack, get Zola and throw Cap to the fodder bin, or sell him.

-Kids love Cap but they don't know Arnim Zola. They ask mommy to buy the pack to get Cap, and the bonus Zola is an instant villain, or just throw him to the toybox, or give it to a friend. lol.

With this type of strategy, DST can cater to both collectors and non-collectors at the same time. It may seem as overkill putting Cap, Iron-Man, but it's necessary for the packs to sell... and the line to keep going.

[dr baghead]

I know I’m in the minority of this board since my known of Marvel is pretty much “those who have versed Capcom” (so I love X-Men characters) and “parts of X-Men evolution that mirror 616 continuity” so I don’t really care about “new” characters (my most wanted is nothing but variants... by the way Zach, wouldn’t Maestro and Amazing Bagman make a great two pack?!) so much as “cool looking minimates”

So I like Wave 44 very much, they look neat.

I even like maybe-half of the Best of Wave (I’ll buy several Wolvie/Sabretooth packs since it’s my favorite Wolverine. If Thing is ‘Future Foundation’ style orange plastic with a TRU Thing belt I’ll need him too)

So yeah, I don’t have s**t to add to this thread other then saying I’m okay with this to cut the negativity a little.

[storm 1:08]

I'm a Marvel completist. Up to now, at least. It was my irrationally voluntary decision. And people here, like bilbofett, are my eternal rivals! :biggrin:

[undeadpool]

other then a little iffy about thor, all of these packs are winners for me, i ALWAYS love having variations of pym and will buy an extra pack if he has the giantman helmet as well, ironman looks awesome, i always love having extra classic caps, hulk will look great with my other avengers, and that kree sentry is awesome! looks like after this and the next wave comes out (if you know what i mean ) i can finally have a certain alien race vs another certain alien race set up

scott lang also looks bad ass and is the perfect foundation for a modern ghost

Edited December 14, 2011 by undeadpool

[Prowlar]

I suppose I'm one of those rare breeds since I'm a completest with a bad habit of buying extra packs for customs. Even if I don't have any certain character in mind I still get extras if I like the look of the individual parts unfortunately with all the Thors and Caps my customs box runneth over.

I completely understand the need and logic behind the saturation, still I'd like to get something a little new with the re-releases. Something as simple as a change to the mask to make it a Heroes Reborn Cap, have the head and extra hair piece be the John Walker version, or maybe something as complex as a second mask/head piece to transform him into Capwolf.

With Iron Man Stark has worn so many variations of the Iron Man armor that even minor changes can be considered new armors. However getting more of the specialty armors would be better than rehashing the same armors over and over. That's one thing I really like about this wave's Iron Man.

I'm not as bothered about the new Thor since the look is still unique enough that getting another one doesn't bother me that much but I'd still like to see some of the other characters that have been called Thor such as 26th century Dargo Ktor from Thor Corp or Thor 2099 Cecil MacAdam.

While still recognizably Thor, Cap, and Iron Man to the casual shopper, that by this day and age should be used to endless variations of the same character wearing slightly different costumes, they are still new/different characters for the fans and collectors to get excited about as well.

Moving away from wave 44 and on to the other two headliners that are taking a bit of a back seat, with it being an Avengers year. While there are several more costumed identities that Peter Parker has used, Slingers, they aren't "Spider-Man" so I've resigned myself to getting many more shading variations of that character. Wolverine has had quite a few variations that haven't been made yet Weapon X experiment, Ultimate black suit with yellow stripes, Fang costume, Feral Wolverine, Samurai, and of course his Team X Agent uniform. The latter would work well in a four pack with agent versions of Sabertooth, Maverick, and Battle Damaged Omega Red.

[Nessex]

I'm not as bothered about the new Thor since the look is still unique enough that getting another one doesn't bother me that much but I'd still like to see some of the other characters that have been called Thor such as 26th century Dargo Ktor from Thor Corp or Thor 2099 Cecil MacAdam.

Some 2099 Variants would make for GREAT alternatives, while still allowing DST to sell Thor or Captain America or Hulk

Moving away from wave 44 and on to the other two headliners that are taking a bit of a back seat, with it being an Avengers year. While there are several more costumed identities that Peter Parker has used, Slingers, they aren't "Spider-Man" so I've resigned myself to getting many more shading variations of that character. Wolverine has had quite a few variations that haven't been made yet Weapon X experiment, Ultimate black suit with yellow stripes, Fang costume, Feral Wolverine, Samurai, and of course his Team X Agent uniform. The latter would work well in a four pack with agent versions of Sabertooth, Maverick, and Battle Damaged Omega Red.

A Shi'ar wave with 'Fang' Wolverine to anchor it would be swell! Shi'ar Guards, Updated Dark Phoenix, Lilndra, DeathBird. Awwwwww Yeaaaaaaah!

Team X Box set? yes, Yes, YES!

Back on topic though - as it has already been said, more tweaks are only tweaks, but they may help some long-time collectors feel a bit less slighted. Eagle forehead cap would be enough of a change to make me less bumbed about seeing another Cap.

I'll admit, i AM a completionist with Marvel these days. But, it's my choice. DST isn't forcing me to do it. I *might* stop being a completionist one day. I know a lot of other board members have reverted to cherry picking over the years, and i am starting to understand why. But i can't blame DST for not releasing all the characters i want and 'forcing' me to buy duplicates.

[buttheadsmate]

I'm a completist.....a complete bloody idiot,I buy everything 'Minimate' that is released & then moan about it. If I could I'd just stop buying Minimates because they are possibly the most bloody frustrating things anybody could possibly collect & yet I still hang in .....although I'm wondering why?

Edited December 14, 2011 by buttheadsmate

[MiniFiend UK]

I'm not a completist (not anymore) I found that its to hard to track down the TRU all the time. These two waves can be a pass fro me as I have iconic versions of these characters as is. Prob the only figures that interest me are the Kree sentry and the IM.

[Onyx_6]

I am a minimate completist. I buy at least one of each pack from the LCS waves, mainly to keep my comic shop in the minimate business; which is getting tougher when they are charging close to $10 per pack. I have (up to the current wave) been very lucky in finding the TRU waves. I will even buy (rebuy) the packs shared with the LCS waves, again, mainly to keep TRU (re)stocking mates.

I will also buy extras for customs that I never seem to have the time to make.

All that being said, it does not seem like it is the LCS waves that are needing more of the Caps, Thors, Spidys, and Wolverines. These seem like the guys who should be flooding the shelves at TRU where the new fans are going to be found. My first mates came from the original box sets, the ones with the "blind packed" characters, from TRU back when I was a freshman on college. That got me into minimates because I liked Spidy, Wolvie, DD, Venom, etc. I learned from there that I could get minimates at my LCS and was able to round out the first four waves from there and eBay; I have been completing since.

IMO, TRU should house the classics. Maybe the new exclusives continue to keep the likes of us interested in TRU. Keep the heavy hitters limited to one per pack (two per wave) in LCS waves. Wave 42 was a good wave with the mix. Wave 44, not so much. But I am very much looking forward to Wave 43 and 45; big wins there.

Just the way I see it.

[TM2 Dinobot]

The thing I don't get. If you want the big 5 on the shelves at all times, Spidey, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Then why change them up? Do two 2 packs with Cap/Thor and Hulk/Ironman, and release one each TRU wave. Then, LEAVE THEM THE FRACK ALONE. It stops giving up useless retreads, and it's the exact same characters that no one will feel obligated to pick up in the slightest, we we can have an entire LCS wave and 3/4ths of a TRU wve as new stuff. But as t is, I think DST is actually counting on us schmucks to buy them all. If they wanted the big 5, they could release a TRU 5 pack and keep it perpetually in stock. It could happen. But they don't.

[TENIME_art]

Zach: I try and get one of every Minimate released (I don't care about packaging variations for the same figures, or impossibly rare giveaways like Gold or Elf Spidey), buy multiples for customs, and troop build. I am a completionist with this line of action figures.

Why else would I have the Desperately Seeking Susan set? :tongue:

[hellpop]

I realize that some of these two-packs -- depending on who you think is great and who you view as punishment from on high -- require you to buy one you don't want to get someone you want. But who here is an actual completist? I didn't think very many of you were, if any. So if this wave, or a two-pack in it, isn't for you, there will be plenty of other sets/waves coming out next year -- the summer just happens to belong to the Avengers movie and its starring characters. (Also, I get the feeling that if we announced three consecutive waves that were all must-haves, response would be similarly disheartened, if only from a monetary standpoint.)

And I think criticism of planning is fine -- this is your forum, not ours -- but I wouldn't assume that we didn't plan. A basic Cap in multiple waves is a necessity if you want to make sure there's a basic Cap on shelves at all times. And FA Wolverine may be considered an anchor figure to a Secret Invasion set, whereas a box set with four important alternate Wolverine looks may not need him as badly. (This is all hypothetical -- I wasn't with the company when those came out, and I'm not involved in line plans now.) But I DO know these line plans are agonized over, and, aside from the occasional production delay, the figures come out in the order they're supposed to.

In short, we have a plan. But we also want Minimates to be around for another 10 years, so we're gonna keep trying different things to ensure the brand's longevity. Rest assured, we want to make new characters just as much as we want to sell the famous ones.

Zack, I don't mean to imply that you guys don't plan... just that you don't always plan that well. :biggrin: I honestly don't mean that as a slam, as I really do think you guys do an outstanding job overall.

The idea of wanting a basic Cap on the pegs is an interesting one; I would counter that Wave 42's Cap probably still will be on the stands, particularly since the figure is shared between TRU and specialty, and we know that those packs don't sell through as well. I also find it interesting that this wave is for specialty rather then TRU; I think we've all assumed that TRU would want the big guns over and over, and that specialty would be the place to dip deeper into the Marvel character pool. But that doesn't seem to be the case; I can only assume that the feedback you guys have gotten from retailers is basically "no more minor characters! We want the big guys or we're not placing any orders". And I'd probably think that retailers are wrong in thinking their customers want figures of the same handful of characters over and over, but I don't have all that high an opinion of most comic shop owners' business sense....

As far as the idea of completism goes, I don't think you're quite looking at this in the right direction. We don't look at a new announced wave and say, "great, another Thor, Cap, and Iron Man I have to buy", but rather "oh great, another Thor, Cap and Iron Man taking up a spot for [fill in the blank]. We know there's only a limited amount of figures made in a calendar year, and each of those slots, to us, is semi-precious. And, when those spots are taken up by characters that we've already seen a dozen times over, and, in the case of Thor and Cap, have just bought recently... well, it's disappointing. That's all.

Anyway, Zack, I just want to say again that I at least appreciate all the time you and Chuck spend communicating with us... you guys really do go above and beyond with fan outreach. Remember, we only complain because we're passionate about your product. We're all on the same team here, after all. Go Team Minimates!

[monkeycrumb]

The thing I don't get. If you want the big 5 on the shelves at all times, Spidey, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Ironman, Then why change them up? Do two 2 packs with Cap/Thor and Hulk/Ironman, and release one each TRU wave. Then, LEAVE THEM THE FRACK ALONE. It stops giving up useless retreads, and it's the exact same characters that no one will feel obligated to pick up in the slightest, we we can have an entire LCS wave and 3/4ths of a TRU wve as new stuff. But as t is, I think DST is actually counting on us schmucks to buy them all. If they wanted the big 5, they could release a TRU 5 pack and keep it perpetually in stock. It could happen. But they don't.

Because TRU doesn't WANT the same stuff hanging on their pegs at all times! They need to create that sense of "new" and "hot", which is why companies will refresh their packaging yearly. They want to create that impression in shopper's minds that they NEED to buy it NOW, not that it'll be there any time they want to come back.

Also, as far as we're concerned, having the same rotating stock would be bad. What happens when there are only a few new packs per case? What happens if the straight rereleases pegwarm? That would affect TRU ordering new waves and would make newer waves even harder to find! Plus, by having different variations of the same characters *does* help sales: Parents (and collectors) are generally more willing to buy a 2-pack with one new character if the 2nd figure is "different enough" from something they already own. If it was exactly the same, sales would very likely drop.

Finally, as for a 5-pack, that sounds good BUT it would defeat the "price-point" model of sales. It's easier to spend $8 than $20 or more for most kids. How many kids are allowed a limit ($10 or less, little Timmy) when buying their toys? The Disney Store exclusive set did really well for itself as a 4-pack, but it didn't have 2-packs in the same store to compete with.

You really some good ideas, but sadly I think they would make things worse for us instead of better. Just look at what the Star Wars line has done: newer figures limited in stock AND shelf-space compared to their "Legends" line which is all repacks.

Frankly, DST NEEDS to keep the heavy-hitters in near-constant rotation to keep the line going. Sure, I'd like to see less of the same characters over and over, but we are still getting the TRU wave 13 series which includes Moonstar & Magma and Boom-Boom & Rictor - characters I never thought would get done! I myself have a very long wishlist of characters I want, and I'm sure DST will get to 99% of them given enough time.

For the 10th anniversary of minimates, I would suffer an ENTIRE year of remakes & rereleases if it guaranteed me ANOTHER 10 years of minimates with the same amount of wide character selection we've gotten these past 10 years! Seriously, look at all the characters just on the pack-in poster alone!

2012 is going to be the year of The Avengers. I think DST's doing the right thing in capitalizing on this, because a *lot* of new blood is going to be buying their first minimates in 2012!

[Valo487]

You don't see an issue that so much of the 10th anniversary year is wave after wave of characters we JUST got in 2011? How many different Caps, Hulks, Iron Men, and Thors does DST think the general public needs? I know what I see with parents all the time: The Parent buys ONE Thor, and then even if a kid wants another one, the parent says "You've already got one of those at home." DST is trying to sell all this stuff to the SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE, and all of us on the board not only have these characters, but comic versions, movie versions, ad nauseum. Who is the market for all these waves of the same characters?

[karamazov80]

DST is trying to sell all this stuff to the SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE, and all of us on the board not only have these characters, but comic versions, movie versions, ad nauseum. Who is the market for all these waves of the same characters?

But Zach himself previously stated that this was not the case--they want to sell to a variety of audiences, one of which are (us) Minimate collectors that want more different characters. They probably get the bulk of their TRU sales from casual fans of the line, general toy collectors, or kids who happen to run across them in the aisle, think they look good, and buy them. Of that audience, Spider-Man V.45 is gonna sell better than Batroc the Leaper, I'm sad to say.

Edited December 14, 2011 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

DST is trying to sell all this stuff to the SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE, and all of us on the board not only have these characters, but comic versions, movie versions, ad nauseum. Who is the market for all these waves of the same characters?

But Zach himself previously stated that this was not the case--they want to sell to a variety of audiences, one of which are (us) Minimate collectors that want more different characters. They probably get the bulk of their TRU sales from casual fans of the line, general toy collectors, or kids who happen to run across them in the aisle, think they look good, and buy them. Of that audience, Spider-Man V.45 is gonna sell better than Batroc the Leaper, I'm sad to say.

Except that the wave in question isn't going to TRU, and that TRU in general has had a wider variety of characters for quite some time. Which, as I said above, is really interesting. I think DST is trying to recapture some of the comic book shops that have stopped carrying Minimates over the last few years by rolling out the big guns, much the way DC Direct shifted their action figure focus from the DCU as a whole to endless rehashes of Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern. But, I think TRU's success is moving Minimates in general, and the fact that you're more likely to find Thor/Lady Loki still hanging around then you are, say, Lockjaw/Psylocke, shows that it's not just the A-listers that sell. So I don't think that DST is wrong for trying to cater to the buyers in our LCBS; I think the buyers are wrong for thinking they will only be able to sell sets with the big names in them.

[TM2 Dinobot]

There's also something else to consider here, which MC touched on: The retailers. We've got TRU and LCSs, both of which are in competition, and both of which are frankly not doing so great (LCSs a little worse I should think, but seeing as how this is the Golden Age of Geek, they're coming back a little.) Both of these entities have near complete say over what they will or will not buy. And that effects what gets planned and what we get.

Example: Princess Celestia from MLP:FiM. Hasbro released a 5 pack a year ago with her in it. She's white in the show. She's pink as a toy. No one could figure it out, until an explanation was dropped that retailers essentially came together and said "We'll take 5,000 sets with white (show accurate) Celestia. However, if you make her pink we'll take 50,000 sets!"

We may be looking at the same thing here. TRU and LCS may have come together and said "These are the characters we want ever 6 months" which is about 2 1/2 - 3 waves. I have no idea if that's the case.

In fact, at this moment, I have no idea what the heck is going on.

[monkeycrumb]

We may be looking at the same thing here. TRU and LCS may have come together and said "These are the characters we want ever 6 months" which is about 2 1/2 - 3 waves. I have no idea if that's the case.

In fact, at this moment, I have no idea what the heck is going on.

You hit the nail on the head!

How many LCS's have dropped or near-dropped minimates alltogether? Or the ones that have *gasp* never carried them? This is DST's way of courting / appeasing them.

As for TRU, having the heavy-hitters in the wave allows them to sneak in things like Balder or Boom Boom & Rictor. This is per TRU's request.

[nate_studio]

...which is why I usually just get what TRU has...

Too many valid points have been said to start quoting. I'll gladly buy another mark I Iron Man to get a bulked up Hulk. I'll buy costume-he-wore-once Cap that is to get Crossbones. And I'll buy jacket Cap to get Zola and that jacket. But I will opt out of buying practically-the-same Cap and beard Thor and just hope that little Timmy buys it.

I just hope this 10 year anniversary is better than the TMNT 25th anniversary

Edited December 15, 2011 by nate_studio

[Valo487]

That's pretty much how I feel. I feel like they're not even bothering to include anything new with these rehashes to make it worth the while for people who already have these characters to buy them yet again. I'll buy Jacket Cap for Arnim Zola, but why would anyone buy regular Cap with Stubble Thor if they got any of the versions of them we just got over the summer/winter of 2011?

[bilbofett]

I'm a Marvel completist. Up to now, at least. It was my irrationally voluntary decision. And people here, like bilbofett, are my eternal rivals! :biggrin:

It's a good thing we don't "share" a TRU( the blood, the carnage...) . Hey that gives me a stupid idea- replace Spiderman with Carnage and release him 6 times a year....

[Mirymate]

why would anyone buy regular Cap with Stubble Thor if they got any of the versions of them we just got over the summer/winter of 2011?

Cause I like that look for Thor in the comics. Hey, you asked. Not sure what I'm going to do with the Cap... but it probably means I can skip the Cap/Ryu pack for MvC3. Not saying you're wrong, V, just I'm the wrong guy to ask.

If you're looking for a figure to release every year, I'd like to nominate Wasp. She has enough different and distinctive costumes you could release her every wave if you like, and still not get ot them all.

Just trying to help.

[Mystery Man]

I'd be pleased with a Wasp every wave, at least for awhile. After about 5 or 6 of 'em, though, I'd want a break for a while.