Marvel Wave 87: X-Men

[buttheadsmate]

13 minutes ago, DSTZach said:

In kid-oriented media, yeah, the Silvestri outfit isn't going to fly. Same with toys. Any toys.

I understand ,of course I understand but.... 

There are 3 Minimates that immediately come to mind that would be considered comparable ...Tarot,  Witchblade & Lady Death . 

 

[buttheadsmate]

4 minutes ago, NerdyTrev said:

That wasn't always true. 
(Hail Ivan!)

Spooky ....I was typing my post when yours arrived. 

[Navaan]

3 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I understand ,of course I understand but.... 

There are 3 Minimates that immediately come to mind that would be considered comparable ...Tarot,  Witchblade & Lady Death . 

 

Shanna. Rachel Grey. Cassie Hack. Anne Bonne. Any of the girls from Sin City. The Femme Fatale sets. Buck Rogers' princess. Ultimate X-Men Jean Grey, Storm. Some of Storm's other outfits. X-23.

I also understand, but like... surely we aren't that timid of skin? 

[Nessex]

I take some umbrage with the idea that a hint (or even hefty portion) of bosom is somehow damaging to and inappropriate for children considering the extreme violence of the subject matter at hand.

Cyborg lady with needle fingers who stabs people? ✅ Fine! 
Dude with knife hands who severs limbs? ✅✅Awesome! 
Future soldier with massive guns who shoots up the place? ✅✅✅ Perfect! 
Women with breasts? 🚨🚨🚨 all hands on deck! We need to protect the kiddies! 
 


Last time I checked, the number 1 cause of the death of children in America was firearms.... not jugs.

 

EDIT: in case I was unclear, this is not pointed at you, Zach - I'm guess I'm kinda just shouting into the void about my frustrations. 

Edited March 13 by Nessex

[Freaqualizer]

9 hours ago, Nessex said:

I take some umbrage with the idea that a hint (or even hefty portion) of bosom is somehow damaging to and inappropriate for children considering the extreme violence of the subject matter at hand.

Cyborg lady with needle fingers who stabs people? ✅ Fine! 
Dude with knife hands who severs limbs? ✅✅Awesome! 
Future soldier with massive guns who shoots up the place? ✅✅✅ Perfect! 
Women with breasts? 🚨🚨🚨 all hands on deck! We need to protect the kiddies! 
 


Last time I checked, the number 1 cause of the death of children in America was firearms.... not jugs.

 

EDIT: in case I was unclear, this is not pointed at you, Zach - I'm guess I'm kinda just shouting into the void about my frustrations. 

For the record, I’m an American and my life has been severely impacted by bosoms. I think many young males across the world are also afflicted by this epidemic. It causes locked bedroom and bathroom doors. Prolonged periods of isolation during puberty. And a severe loss of mental acuity when in the presence of bare bosom.
 

…my name is Kevin and I’m a boobaholic. 🥺 

[nandoninny]

i worked with a guy that was.......kind of the steotypical texas republican.  nice guy but i could tell we'd disagree on stuff certain topics that might be sensitive to discuss at the office so i always kept conversations pretty shallow.

one time though he asked me what i thought about the deadpool movie and if it was appropriate to take his 6 year old son to the theater to see it.

i told him it was rated r and there was a lot of blood and silly violence.

"i don't care about that stuff -- he sees that all the time.  i'm asking if it shows boobs or anything like that".

man........what a fucked up point of view.  so i told him there was a scene in a strip club that showed some boobs.

after that i avoided talking to him.  oddly enough though (and proof you never know someone until you know someone) i tried messing with him by implying i was bi-sexual b/c i honestly thought it would get him to stop talking to me.  instead he tried to set me up with his brother.    

[DSTZach]

22 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I understand ,of course I understand but.... 

There are 3 Minimates that immediately come to mind that would be considered comparable ...Tarot,  Witchblade & Lady Death . 

Sorry, I meant any MARVEL toys, including specialty-only ones like Minimates. 

Obviously Tarot, Lady Death, Sin City were intended for older collectors, but outside of Deadpool, and some of the street-level TV shows, Marvel is a family brand. (As much as I immediately regret showing my kids certain Marvel films, what with language, bullets and love scenes.)

Selene/Black Queen is pretty inappropriate, but so is Dazzler, and she wasn't even THAT long ago. Things have obviously changed. 

Edited March 13 by DSTZach

[Navaan]

6 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Sorry, I meant any MARVEL toys, including specialty-only ones like Minimates. 

Obviously Tarot, Lady Death, Sin City were intended for older collectors, but outside of Deadpool, and some of the street-level TV shows, Marvel is a family brand. (As much as I immediately regret showing my kids certain Marvel films, what with language, bullets and love scenes.)

Selene/Black Queen is pretty inappropriate, but so is Dazzler, and she wasn't even THAT long ago. Things have obviously changed. 

I swear to gosh, if Dazzler in her white 70s Disco outifit is too inappropriate, Marvel may need to start to really wonder why sales dip. Not just here, but in comics. 

Look at DC. They do 'thirst trap' covers for Nightwing, Batman, Wonder Woman, Power Girl, etc., of men and women, and they get huge boosts in sales. 

[Nessex]

9 hours ago, DSTZach said:

Selene/Black Queen is pretty inappropriate, but so is Dazzler, and she wasn't even THAT long ago. Things have obviously changed. 

I see a lot of people online blaming the Mouse literally everything they don't like about Marvel right now, but I'm wondering: as someone working within the toy industry, have you got any idea on what has created this shift/change?

Is there any consideration on how different sets might be aimed at different audiences? 
I get that a set featuring characters in a recent animated Spider-Man film could be assumed to be for children. So - try and keep it from being too raunchy.
For a box set featuring a story from the 80s- anyone who's old enough to remember those comics and costumes is in their 40s+ now, right? Maybe that set is more of an adult collectible?
 

9 hours ago, nandoninny said:

oddly enough though (and proof you never know someone until you know someone) i tried messing with him by implying i was bi-sexual b/c i honestly thought it would get him to stop talking to me.  instead he tried to set me up with his brother.    

Was his brother good looking, though? (asking for a friend 🤣)

[Trekker 42]

9 hours ago, nandoninny said:

i worked with a guy that was.......kind of the steotypical texas republican.  nice guy but i could tell we'd disagree on stuff certain topics that might be sensitive to discuss at the office so i always kept conversations pretty shallow.

one time though he asked me what i thought about the deadpool movie and if it was appropriate to take his 6 year old son to the theater to see it.

i told him it was rated r and there was a lot of blood and silly violence.

"i don't care about that stuff -- he sees that all the time.  i'm asking if it shows boobs or anything like that".

man........what a fucked up point of view.  so i told him there was a scene in a strip club that showed some boobs.

after that i avoided talking to him.  oddly enough though (and proof you never know someone until you know someone) i tried messing with him by implying i was bi-sexual b/c i honestly thought it would get him to stop talking to me.  instead he tried to set me up with his brother.    

I hate children very much. But I hate parents far more. 

[Strider]

Wait, what? Dazzler? I had to go to minimatedstabase to see if I was missing something. I do consider myself to be on the conservative side of things when it comes to what I expose my kids to but Dazzler? Dazzler? I think my daughter was playing with her at 6 years old. She loved the little skates. Dazzler? The only thing I was iffy on was whether or not the skates would be a choking hazard. Now for Selene, yeah there is no way I would give that one to my daughters at any age but Dazzler? 

[NerdyTrev]

13 hours ago, Nessex said:

For a box set featuring a story from the 80s- anyone who's old enough to remember those comics and costumes is in their 40s+ now, right? Maybe that set is more of an adult collectible?

I don't imagine this is an argument to the higher ups. Toys are toys and, no matter how you slice it, meant for a child audience.

[nandoninny]

i'm going to guess that the sexual visual conservatism is a push at international marketing.  now, i am saying that with zero evidence but i've been to saudi arabia and dubai and other countries where comic books and other more typical western entertainment forms are growing in popularity.  it was a huge deal when female wrestlers went to saudi.  i remember being warned about taking comics there b/c they could get me arrested if they show too much skin.  i went to a supermarket and laughed my ass off b/c they had a magazine section with US magazines and there was a wedding magazine with big censorship stickers all over the boob areas of all the dresses!   now, the good news is disney isn't holding back on hiding homosexuality so i could be completely wrong.  but it is easier to hide a kiss or relationship than it is to hide an outfit.

14 hours ago, Nessex said:

Was his brother good looking, though? (asking for a friend 🤣)

if he looked anything like his brother i'm going to go w/ 'no'.  

[DSTZach]

15 hours ago, Nessex said:

I see a lot of people online blaming the Mouse literally everything they don't like about Marvel right now, but I'm wondering: as someone working within the toy industry, have you got any idea on what has created this shift/change?

Is there any consideration on how different sets might be aimed at different audiences? 
I get that a set featuring characters in a recent animated Spider-Man film could be assumed to be for children. So - try and keep it from being too raunchy.
For a box set featuring a story from the 80s- anyone who's old enough to remember those comics and costumes is in their 40s+ now, right? Maybe that set is more of an adult collectible?

Rambling, independent, non-DST-spokesman thoughts:

I do think there has been a shift in culture in the US to not appear exploitative. If Zendaya wants to dress like a Sorayama robot, she can, but to try and sell an image (or toy) of her dressed like a Sorayama robot is iffy. 

I would not blame Disney for this -- they are going ahead with a new Deadpool, so they clearly see that there is a market for adult-oriented material. And I'm sure Fox will continue to make R-rated films. And the Marvel movies will I'm sure continue to feature PG-13 material, including that Eternals love scene and plenty of gunfights.

BUT comics have a long history of backlash against adult content when they are marketed (in the US, overwhelmingly) for kids. Obviously, there is a market for adult-oriented comics, and DC even has their Black Label books, but Marvel's MAX line seems to be a distant memory. I remember just a few years back they got Milo Manara to draw some Marvel covers, but one cover of Spider-Woman saw some backlash because she appeared too submissive/sexualized. 

And toys... remember when they put Breaking Bad toys in Toys"R"Us? Toys are for kids, and if they are in a toy store, they are going to be seen by kids. Licensors that exclusively sell to older audiences don't care, but family-friendly companies want you to make family-friendly toys.  Even with Black Label, I don't think we'll see anything risque coming out of McFarlane's DC line. 

...Any of that make any sense?

I mentioned Dazzler, because she has some cleavage that probably wouldn't fly today. I remember once a blogger called us out online about our Stargirl MM for having a highly defined chest. I was actually confused, because at the time that figure was like 5-6 years old and we had JUST released the Lady Death set. 

[buttheadsmate]

The international marketing of MInimates (specifically) outside of North America would be ,for clarity, non-existent . If we're talking 'Marvel generally '  then I have little idea .

Regards Saudi Arabia , interesting to know that comic books are gaining popularity when you consider that is illegal to hand out bibles !    

 

 

When I was a teenager I regularly read contemporary imported US Marvel comics , exactly the same as what was published in the US except that the price on the cover was printed in English (pence) rather than US (cents) .  No other difference.

In the late 60's /early 70's when Marvel UK started promoting their characters in the UK we got a series of UK Marvel comics which were reprinted in black & white. Despite having read many of these comics before, I bought them . I still have them .

Here's the thing , Marvel censored them . If you had the US versions (which I often did) & compared them to the UK versions you became aware of some seriously odd & sometimes seriously worrying censorship of the text and the artwork.

Red Sonja comes immediately to mind ....... the artwork changes were amateurish & laughable , more chainmail around her loins* must have been awfully uncomfortable !

Regards toys , nudity & kids , does anybody here believe that any kid that has a Barbie , Ken or Joe etc. hasn't seen their toy in the nude ?  

 

* I tried several words but chose 'loins'  .....still not happy huh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14 by buttheadsmate
sp.

[DSTZach]

Our Marvel Select line has huge displays in toy stores in the Middle East.

BUT I'm not sure the orders for Minimates are ever enough to pay for the rigorous international safety testing. I believe that is one reason they are not (normally) found in the UK. 

[buttheadsmate]

14 minutes ago, buttheadsmate said:

The international marketing of MInimates (specifically) outside of North America would be ,for clarity, non-existent .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DSTZach]

41 minutes ago, buttheadsmate said:

The international marketing of MInimates (specifically) outside of North America would be ,for clarity, non-existent . If we're talking 'Marvel generally '  then I have little idea .

Just trying to help with some context. Like I said, Minimates orders internationally are low to nonexistent. 

[AFMcGill]

Definitely not dying, right??

Can't wait for my 3-figure Inferno boxset due out in 2027 with a newly sculpted mask piece for Wolverine instead of any women.

[NerdyTrev]

33 minutes ago, AFMcGill said:

Definitely not dying, right??

Can't wait for my 3-figure Inferno boxset due out in 2027 with a newly sculpted mask piece for Wolverine instead of any women.

I don't think it's that dire. 

Almost certainly we'll be receiving the can't-let-my-childhood-die X-Men cartoon reboot version of Goblin Queen as seen in the recent Hasbro line. She may not be as villainously sparse as we're used to, but it maintains a devilish and seductive flair and will likely have a baby Nate.

As long as we get a wicked Darkchylde variant and a cool demon villain (either S'ym or N'astirh) I'm happy.

[DSTZach]

1 hour ago, AFMcGill said:

Definitely not dying, right??

What, Minimates? Far from dying. Partial nudity? Dying. 

1 hour ago, AFMcGill said:

Can't wait for my 3-figure Inferno boxset due out in 2027 with a newly sculpted mask piece for Wolverine instead of any women.

Whatever this X-Men set is, I think it will be well received, with five figures, two women, three villains, two new characters, and one micro-figure. 

[Nessex]

If it *is* indeed the Inferno storyline, I can live with a regular bikini for Maddie, sans underboob. 
She's just been promoted in Marvel Future Flight and they're using something I'd consider 'close enough' to the source material. It bears some resemblance to the proposed HasLab version, but with a little peekaboo window for the cleavage. 
. 

 

On 3/15/2024 at 6:25 AM, DSTZach said:

Whatever this X-Men set is, I think it will be well received, with five figures, two women, three villains, two new characters, and one micro-figure. 

'two women, three villains, two new characters, and one micro-figure' combined with '80's X-Men story' sounds like a winning combination to me, whatever it is.

[thereasonsy]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:25 AM, NerdyTrev said:

That wasn't always true. 
(Hail Ivan!)

For Marvel Series 86 is based on a 1990s storyline, and has two new characters, plus one who has only been done animated. Series 87 is an 80s storyline allegedly mutant related, and has two new characters again, plus one in a new outfit that is very different from the one we have. Is likely Inferno. 
 

new characters: N’Aistra or however you spell it. The new outfit character is probably Illyana but could be a red herring for Maddy or Cable.

I could see:

Dark Child (Silver Armor)

Goblyn Queen (Tamer)

Naistra (those Demon wings from DND)

Sym

Goblin Wolverine’s Dad 

pack in baby Cable in a telekinesis bubble like dungeon master.  Although I’d prefer Gateway. 

 

[buttheadsmate]

I hope it's  'The Red Herring'  , I love her , she's smokin' .

[thereasonsy]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:08 AM, buttheadsmate said:

I hope it's  'The Red Herring'  , I love her , she's smokin' .

I see what you did there….