TRU Wave 13...IS OUT NOW!

[Webhead]

What's the purpose of this thread again?

[karamazov80]

^^ Just shooting the breeze until TRU.com stocks up.

Again, I just don't understand why people think that because the Internet allows them to complain about every little disappointment of their life, it means that they should. There are plenty of toy lines or waves or whatever that have been unabashedly less than one might hope for, that are totally deserving of venom from all comers. With a line like Minimates that gets it right so much of the time, I don't understand why we have to nitpick every little issue that we don't agree with.

And to address the issue of the Friends and Foes set? That's a perfect example of a time when yes, the company needed to be taken to task.

Seems like you are thinking of this forum in a more utilitarian sense than I do--using it to critique DST only when they deserve it for a gross QC snafu. But I think this forum serves a multitude of purposes, and a lot of it is just folks venting for less than catastrophic problems, wishing for this or that change, character, or team, and critiquing the minutia of the line. In general, there is positive, and there is negative, and it balances out pretty well in my opinion. If you're seeing more negative than positive, then I think you might be filtering out a great deal of what is posted here. But it ain't all great. And if we aren't talking about the insignificant stuff here (good and bad), I'm not sure we would have much to talk about. This isn't a forum dedicated to eliminating world hunger or ending war, after all

I share Battlecat's sentiments. Zach came in here like the fellow collector that he seems to be, who just so happens to work for the company that makes these bad boys. I suppose our behavior is gonna change a little just because of who he is, what he knows, and what he might be able to do, but I personally haven't noticed a significant change in boardie behavior one way or the other across the board.

[DSTZach]

I share Battlecat's sentiments. Zach came in here like the fellow collector that he seems to be, who just so happens to work for the company that makes these bad boys. I suppose our behavior is gonna change a little just because of who he is, what he knows, and what he might be able to do, but I personally haven't noticed a significant change in boardie behavior one way or the other across the board.

Oh, good, so this is normal. :biggrin: In that case, I hope my presence here will eventually heal this great rift between those who voice their issues and those who have no complaints. For I am a uniter of men.

BUT I still think we make a lot of new characters. The ratio of new to "re-hash" (be it new costumes or needed re-dos) may have dipped a bit, but I think that's simply a sign of the line's age, as well as the sheer number of figures being produced. And I still think we're competitive, ratio-wise, with other biggish lines.

That said, I feel for completists, and while I have never been one strictly speaking (I'm missing some Muppets, Simpsons and TB Legends, but I have 95% of them), I can certainly understand their frustration sometimes. But I imagine that frustration must be the same for pretty much any line that puts out this amount of product at this many different retailers. Star Wars and Transformers completists must be rich or crazy or both.

[CortherX]

while i do wish we got more NEW mates, i honestly don't mind when a couple waves come and go that i don't have to rush out to get. buying 35 different comic titles a month puts a serious dent in my wallet as it is. i think the last line i got excited for was #41, and that was just for the 2 Mr. Sinister mates. before that, it was wave #34 with the 90s X-Men. of course i bought the AoA box sets, X-Force, Excalibur and New Mutants. and some of the TRU exclusives. but i have a Captain America, an Iron Man, a Thor... i don't need more than 1 of each. if i'm buying a set that has one of them plus another character i want, my 6 yo nephew gets my cast offs. i'm really excited for the Magma/Mirage and Boomer/Rictor sets though, and they really can't get here fast enough!! oh and don't get me started on the Outback X-Men mates that are coming out... uh next year? now if we could finally get a Forge/Banshee and Sunfire/Green Banshee (variant) i'll be happy.

[bilbofett]

I just don't understand i mean the wings for vulture already exist. So no new tooling. How hasn't falcon made the cut??? It seems like a no brainer.

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!

[Mirymate]

BUT I still think we make a lot of new characters. The ratio of new to "re-hash" (be it new costumes or needed re-dos) may have dipped a bit, but I think that's simply a sign of the line's age, as well as the sheer number of figures being produced. And I still think we're competitive, ratio-wise, with other biggish lines.

I think where the debate lies is in the definition of "a bit". One man's bit is another man's wide gulf. And there a matter of perception as well. Right now, MU has or will soon make a lot of the characters a lot of us have been waiting to see in minimate form. So when you guys annouce a wave like 44, which is mostly old characters in new suits, it looks like minimates are falling behind.

And that's not even getting into characters like Falcon, which I think most of us here are truely surprised remains unmated all things considered. (come on, admit it, you guys thought I was going to mention Kang there, didn't you?)

That said, I feel for completists, and while I have never been one strictly speaking (I'm missing some Muppets, Simpsons and TB Legends, but I have 95% of them), I can certainly understand their frustration sometimes. But I imagine that frustration must be the same for pretty much any line that puts out this amount of product at this many different retailers. Star Wars and Transformers completists must be rich or crazy or both.

Haven't been an absolute completeist since TB Legends. I remember the impulse, and in truth if the money situation were different I might be again. But I find Star Wars collectors in general an obcessive lot, and most hard core Transfans are, IMO, crazy. (I mean, grown ups complaining that they keep putting kid sidekicks in a cartoon meant to sell toys to kids?)

[DSTZach]

I think where the debate lies is in the definition of "a bit". One man's bit is another man's wide gulf. And there a matter of perception as well. Right now, MU has or will soon make a lot of the characters a lot of us have been waiting to see in minimate form. So when you guys annouce a wave like 44, which is mostly old characters in new suits, it looks like minimates are falling behind.

And you guys can debate that all you want! Your wide gulf is our bit, and our bit may be the difference between the line's success or failure, but not in the direction that you think it does.

I think perception is most of it. MU is getting you guys antsy, but MU is playing catch-up with us. I won't be the ninth guy to rattle off 50 characters we've made that MU hasn't, but someday I'll add up the numbers in my spare time. (Someone here actually calculated the number of unique characters in Marvel Minimates once before, I need to look it up.)

But I'll pit our Toy Fair showing against MU's any day:

[Lobsterman]

I've never seen someone advertise another company's product for them on a forum before.

But the point is taken; I counted only five out of twenty characters in that slideshow that haven't already been done as Minimates (well, seven if you count different costumes): Nighthawk, Puck, H.E.R.B.I.E., Patriot, Hercules (costume), Mandarin (costume) and Kang.

[TENIME_art]

I'll just never understand the mindset of looking a gift horse in the mouth. No other toy line that I'm privy to has ever done what Minimates has been capable of. The combination of character selection, poseability, sculpt, accessorization, price... not to mention the time and attention Zach devotes to the fans here. It just enervates me to think that really, no matter WHAT DST gives us, they're always going to get hounded for something different:

Hulk looks weird and wimpy next to my other 'mates

Hulk is too bulky and chunky

We need more obscure characters!

Arnim Zola pegwarms

I never got "X" when it first came out!

Oh, man, they're doing a new version of "X"? LAME!

Again, I just don't understand why people think that because the Internet allows them to complain about every little disappointment of their life, it means that they should. There are plenty of toy lines or waves or whatever that have been unabashedly less than one might hope for, that are totally deserving of venom from all comers. With a line like Minimates that gets it right so much of the time, I don't understand why we have to nitpick every little issue that we don't agree with.

And to address the issue of the Friends and Foes set? That's a perfect example of a time when yes, the company needed to be taken to task. That wasn't a matter of opinion, there were actual glaring errors. THAT deserves to be brought up. But the mindset among the collector community that any one of us knows exactly how DST should run their business - only to put forth a strategy that specifically sates our personal desires - is ludicrous. I'll say it again; if they were doing it wrong, they'd have stopped a long long time ago.

And if Gateway and Onslaught, Toad and Pyro, Falcon and Kang, and Nighthawk and Hellcat were the next TRU wave of Minimates, what would we all have to look forward to? Egghead? Clint Barton's brother? Rusty and Skids? Take your time, DST. A little anticipation goes a long way to making this hobby enjoyable.

Boosh.

And/or, Kakow.

I'm missing some Muppets, but I have 95% of them

I hate you.

(Not really. But I have, like, three of them. They came out during a time when I wasn't doing great financially, and had so many other interests taking up what little money I did have. When I'm rich, I'm hoping it won't hurt too much to catch up.)

[Mirymate]

Including what was shown at Toy Fair? 218 unique Earth-616 characters, 47 characters unique to various alternate universes, and roughly 79 movie unique to each movieverse characters. (I keep a spread sheet, I'm annal that way) I have no hard data on MU. If someone has a master checklist of what they've made, I'd be happy to crunch those numbers for you.

(On a related note, my "master wishlist" tab in that file? 271 wants strong.)

[Lobsterman]

Including what was shown at Toy Fair? 218 unique Earth-616 characters, 47 characters unique to various alternate universes, and roughly 79 movie unique to each movieverse characters. (I keep a spread sheet, I'm annal that way) I have no hard data on MU. If someone has a master checklist of what they've made, I'd be happy to crunch those numbers for you.

(On a related note, my "master wishlist" tab in that file? 271 wants strong.)

Wow, 271 wants? So, basically, control-c, control-v from the Marvel Universe Handbook?

[hellpop]

Zach, I don't think the problem is in rehashes of previously released characters per se, but rehashes of the same 6-12 characters over and over in a short period of time. Yeah, I know, these are the core Marvel characters, and they have to be rereleased in order for the line to continue. But when we get, say, Captain America just two waves after the previous one, or two Thors in the same wave, that's when we get pissy. It's not the rehashes, it's the spacing between rehashes, methinks.

[Valo487]

I never would have guessed that offering a solution that would satisfy old AND new fans so we don't have the divisive opinions on every wave would not only create this level of discussion, but have some interpret it as complaining. Thanks to Zach though for taking the time to respond.

I love 'mates, but as others have said until DST starts giving them away for free I will give my opinion on every new release announced, and don't feel obligated to withhold my disappointment when waves are announced with only one new character. Guess what? I still buy them and support the line, so I don't feel like it's complaining to tell DST what I would like to spend my money on. If anything, I think they would appreciate that, I'm certain some releases we've had didn't necessarily come from us but from fan input.

DST does a great job on a lot of levels, but they're not perfect either. No company is. And I really don't agree with this attitude that we should be grateful for what we get and be quiet when we're paying for the product in question. A lot of my feeling may just be because we're in that stretch of the year where movie waves come out, which almost always tend to be movie versions of characters previously seen. I try to find things to like about it though. I'm not really interested in movie Hawkeye, but I'll use him as Trickshot. (So yes, someone DOES want Clint Barton's brother) Perhaps it's me, I still have fond memories of getting wave announcements where every character would be new, which we've been told will likely not happen again. It wasn't always the characters I would choose, but it was nice adding four or five new names to the list of unique characters. I do feel like it has become much more common in the last year or two, likely due to the number of Marvel characters whose public awareness has greatly increased. I know some disagree, but I do feel like long term collectors have less to look forward to than newer fans, and I don't really think anyone's going to change my mind on that one, but I'm not angry about it, just disappointed. I look forward to the releases that are more my taste, like the Galactus box set, but I'm not going to pretend that I don't wish there were more like that. If I can say I'd rather see Winter Soldier over Stubble Thor without insulting anyone, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Valo487

[DSTZach]

Zach, I don't think the problem is in rehashes of previously released characters per se, but rehashes of the same 6-12 characters over and over in a short period of time. Yeah, I know, these are the core Marvel characters, and they have to be rereleased in order for the line to continue. But when we get, say, Captain America just two waves after the previous one, or two Thors in the same wave, that's when we get pissy. It's not the rehashes, it's the spacing between rehashes, methinks.

I think we need to be given a little Avengers leeway while the Avengers are literally the hottest property on the planet. Looking back, the first seven waves were REALLY light on Avengers: Hulk in Wave 1, Cap in Wave 5, Iron Man and Hulk in Wave 6 and then nothing until Wave 12! But we did a LOT of X-Men in that time, because they were a lot hotter, mainly because we had one movie hitting in 2003 and another hitting in 2006. And those movies were nowhere NEAR as big as Cap, Thor, and the Avengers movies. I think after this glut you'll see the Avengers take a back seat to other teams and solo heroes. Mostly.

And I get that it's getting them all at once that bugs you guys, but I hope you'll all bear with us while we attempt to ride this set of giant coattails take advantage of this marketing opportunity. Two Thors in one wave was an experiment, one that seemed to do well, but one Captain America every two waves is NOT bad, especially when there's two MORE waves coming to Toys "R" Us at the same time with no Caps in them at all. I'll remind you of the kid who wanted a Wolverine, but couldn't find a Wolverine, and it made me the kid sad. Think of the children.

[Mirymate]

Wow, 271 wants? So, basically, control-c, control-v from the Marvel Universe Handbook?

Well... having every member of every version of the Masters of Evil, even guys like Icemaster, Powderkeg, and Scorcher, on there helps. I never said they were all reasonable wants. Some of the guys on that list make Stiltman look like an A-lister. And there's more than a few same guy different outfits, like four different looks for Vision, some of the unmade Pym ID's and suits, de-iced Iceman, that kinda thing. You'd be surprised when you start listing new characters and "rehashes" how fast they add up.

[DSTZach]

I've never seen someone advertise another company's product for them on a forum before.

Here's a sortable MU checklist, with a separate visual guide by year. Actually very well done. Rivals the Database in terms of sortability. But I don't have time to count.

http://www.itsalltrue.net/?page_id=10987

But the point is taken; I counted only five out of twenty characters in that slideshow that haven't already been done as Minimates (well, seven if you count different costumes): Nighthawk, Puck, H.E.R.B.I.E., Patriot, Hercules (costume), Mandarin (costume) and Kang.

And we showed how many that haven't been done as MU figures? Brood, Longshot, Dazzler, Box, Kree Sentry, Rhino, The Serpent, Odin, Mokk/Gargoyle, Sin/Skaadi, Miles Morales Spidey (new alter ego/costume), Ant Man II (new alter ego/costume), Flash Thompson Venom (new alter ego/costume), Vindicator (gender change), She-Venom (gender change), Worthy Thing (costume), Mighty Spidey (costume), Mighty IM (costume), Mighty Hawkeye (costume), Rogue (costume), Iron Man (costume), Brood Wolverine (costume kinda), plus 3 pieces of Hulk art that have not been made as MU.

Not counting movie figures, some of whom could pass for the comics (Gwen, Curt Connors, Uncle Ben, etc.) OR extra costume parts on Colossus and Dazzler, I get 10 new + 3 new alter ego/costume + 2 new gender + 7 new costume + 3 pieces of art showing new costumes. Out of 38 shown, I believe.

[battlecat]

I know some disagree, but I do feel like long term collectors have less to look forward to than newer fans

Valo, of course you are welcome to your opinion, but you keep speaking for all long term collectors, framing it as us-vs-them, and it's just not that black and white for all of us. Old characters are not revisited *only* for new collectors -- going by the reactions on this board, plenty of us old-timers look forward to the new versions of them. Sure, the announcements of new characters are usually going to be more exciting, but once they were in hand some of my favorite mates in the past year were the classic Spidey/Goblin, bulky Hulk and Thing, FF, Nightcrawler, Kirby Thor, some of the MvC3 redos, etc, and I started collecting back at Wave 2 or something.

So when you say you offered a solution to satisfy everyone, it ignores the fact that some of us are pretty satisfied with the line as is.

[hellpop]

Zach, I don't think the problem is in rehashes of previously released characters per se, but rehashes of the same 6-12 characters over and over in a short period of time. Yeah, I know, these are the core Marvel characters, and they have to be rereleased in order for the line to continue. But when we get, say, Captain America just two waves after the previous one, or two Thors in the same wave, that's when we get pissy. It's not the rehashes, it's the spacing between rehashes, methinks.

I think we need to be given a little Avengers leeway while the Avengers are literally the hottest property on the planet. Looking back, the first seven waves were REALLY light on Avengers: Hulk in Wave 1, Cap in Wave 5, Iron Man and Hulk in Wave 6 and then nothing until Wave 12! But we did a LOT of X-Men in that time, because they were a lot hotter, mainly because we had one movie hitting in 2003 and another hitting in 2006. And those movies were nowhere NEAR as big as Cap, Thor, and the Avengers movies. I think after this glut you'll see the Avengers take a back seat to other teams and solo heroes. Mostly.

And I get that it's getting them all at once that bugs you guys, but I hope you'll all bear with us while we attempt to ride this set of giant coattails take advantage of this marketing opportunity. Two Thors in one wave was an experiment, one that seemed to do well, but one Captain America every two waves is NOT bad, especially when there's two MORE waves coming to Toys "R" Us at the same time with no Caps in them at all. I'll remind you of the kid who wanted a Wolverine, but couldn't find a Wolverine, and it made me the kid sad. Think of the children.

I don't disagree with you, really. You guys definitely need to take advantage of the movies however you can (and I really do hope that there are some collectors out there that have gotten into Minimates because they started buying Marvel movie ones). And, as I've said before, I at least really do appreciate that you guys do go out of your way to make each new version of a character unique somehow... even if it's as lame as putting a jacket on him. You just can't expect us, the guys (and maybe a girl or two? Maybe?) that already have a dozen Captain Americas (or Iron Man, or the Hulk, or whomever) to not bitch and moan when we see a new one. Just remember, by the time it comes out, we'll all be saying how much we like this one and that it might be the best version of so-and-so ever.

[TENIME_art]

Some of the guys on that list make Stiltman look like an A-lister.

Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoa.

Stiltman's not an A-lister!?

I...I feel so lied to...

[DSTZach]

Some of the guys on that list make Stiltman look like an A-lister.

Whoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoawhoa.

Stiltman's not an A-lister!?

I...I feel so lied to...

I use Stgilt-Man in the new Marvel strip, and I don't think we used him in a decade of Twisted ToyFare. What a waste.

[buttheadsmate]

Every time I've heard the line "I'm not looking for a fight" I've seen a fight.....just saying .....

.....but you're absolutely right though everything is perfect & nobody should imply otherwise .....don't even dare.

Maybe every time you've heard the line "I'm not looking for a fight" you've seen one because the people saying it usually find themselves trying to talk civilly with people who are spoiling for one.

I never said everything is perfect, now did I. You choose to twist my words in an attempt to rile me. I'm not so simple as to play into that trap.

I'll concede that my sarcasm was ill-placed,my apologies.......I'll also concede that my comment was constructed in such a way as to induce a response*. Whether I 'chose to twist' your words to 'rile you' & 'trap you' is a matter for you alone to deal with......& I'd sleep with the light on tonight if I were you.....'cause the bogeyman might get you.

*Forum = a place to debate......... that's how I thought it worked......somebody comments somebody responds we listen we argue we agree to disagree....we all collect Minimates...we move on.

Personally I'm tired of the 'I love Minimates the most ' posts .......I'm staying clear of that one because there are an awful lot of people here who would genuinely deserve that title rather an aspire to it.

[Lobsterman]

And what's Fonzie like?

[Mystery Man]

And what's Fonzie like?

I'll see you and raise you:

Edited March 2, 2012 by Mystery Man

[Mirymate]

Here's a sortable MU checklist, with a separate visual guide by year. Actually very well done. Rivals the Database in terms of sortability. But I don't have time to count.

http://www.itsalltru.../?page_id=10987

[fwoosheyman]

As a collector of both minimates and Marvel Universe I find myself always wanting characters released in MU as minimates and vice versa.

As far as diversity and number of release minimates win by a landslide. There's just more product over the course of a year and minimates have been around longer.

Currently though MU is more appealing to me because they are making characters I know and want (Wrecking Crew, Kang, Winter Soldier, Puck, Blastaar, Medusa, Black Knight, etc). I find myself having to look up a lot of the recent minimates (Thor variants, Jean DeWolff, Antman variant, Kree Sentry, etc) since I am not familiar with them. I still buy them and learn things I never knew but I don't have a connection with them so the new releases aren't as interesting to me.

However, both lines neglect the Brotherhood of Mutants equally so I mega-loathe both Hasbro and DST for that. :tongue: