Gillbob316 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Being a giant X-Men fan, I can't help but weigh in on all of this with a few 2 cents... Like others have mentioned, Betsy was already Asian when I got into comics... so it never bothered me much. Truth be told, it wasn't until years later I learned she was supposed to be Asian. As a child, looking at Jim Lee's artwork, I thought she was Caucasian. Now that I'm older, and know the whole story... I can definitely see the Asian influence in hindsight, but I got into comics and X-Men smack in the middle of the 90s, smack in the middle of the Jim Lee/Animated Series era... and as a kid... picking up on way fewer of the finer plot points... yeah, I had no idea Psylocke was supposed to be Asian. lol... Same goes for Jubilee for that matter. Now as to the objection that she's been KEPT Asian over the years... frankly I disagree. I do think they've backed off it quite a bit actually. Not completely, mind you, but somewhat. I think these days she's drawn in a much more... "grey area" way by most artists. Asian influence is definitely there, but her facial features are often much more Caucasian than they were as drawn by Jim Lee. She's been very distinctly British in some of her more modern depictions, they don't pull back on that at all. And I see ALOT of artists bringing back the butterfly recently. I dunno, I think it varies greatly depending on the artist. She's kind-of a hybrid now, for lack of a better term. You get a sense of both Asian Ninja and Caucasian Brit from her. It's diluted. Very much the same as Beast's current nature. He's currently just as diluted between Kitty and Ape. As has been mentioned, he's regained all his ape powers, but they haven't FULLY backed off the cat look. And like Psylocke, I think it depends a great deal on the artists. There are a few artists I've noticed that almost completely disregard his more cat-like features. They lose the Wolverine-Hair, but his face will at times, under certain artists, regain its more ape-like look. But still others use the "Pug" look that's been mentioned, lol... Unlike Psylocke though, Beast was changed AFTER I got into X-Men, and yes, that change bugged the bejesus out of me. I never liked it either. I'd still like a full reversion to Ape, but am currently happier with Pug beast than I was with Quitely's Beast. And to weigh in on Morrison and Quitley... I never liked their run. I heard all these good things, about what a great team they were. All this praise for Morrison as a writer... and I just never got into it. I hated the New X-Men uniforms (I do understand the movie is partly to blame, but hated them nonetheless)... But so much of it just SUCKED... lol. I hated Angel (bug-girl, not Warren), still do to this day. Her personality just grates me, and she had so little in the way of redeeming qualities. I hated the way he diluted the Marvel Universe with so many useless mutants... so much so that Marvel had to undo it in House of M. I found his Shi'ar stories kindof boring. Never liked or completely understood the whole idea behind the Sublime character, and didn't like Here Comes Tomorrow either. Weapon Plus was confusing (especially with the Weapon X ongoing running alongside it and contradicting it, which also needed more retconning later) and I've always found Fantomex kinda lame... as a cliche gun-toter in a mask, who had an alien car/tumor for some reason (Dafuq?) AND Don't even get me STARTED on the Xorn/Magneto mess... and the damage control that other writers had to do on that afterward. As for the art, I never liked Quitely's "lumpy" characters (people seem to know exactly what I mean when I say that, lol). They all looked very similar, if not the same. And at times his style was unflattering. Especially in the face. About the only new thing their run introduced that I like is the Stepford Cuckoos. For some reason. I always thought they were cool. I didn't hate Cassandra Nova either, though I don't love her. The "Secret evil twin" angle seems kinda stupid, when you step back and look at it objectively. She's a so/so villain. I enjoyed Casey's run on Uncanny at the same time much more. It felt much more grounded. I loved the original X-Corp story. The only moment I disliked it was when I feared Banshee might die, but that didn't happen, so I was fine, lol. His run really made me grow to like Angel and Iceman more (Angel especially) and I got to know Chamber a bit better (I only dabbled in Gen X in its later years), and unlike the majority of the world (apparently), I loved Stacy X... I mean YEAH... I know she was a hooker and kinda skanky... but she had a really cool character design, often brought humor to the team, and had her share of redeeming qualities. She wasn't even a REAL Hooker at first, she just used her pheromones. It was later writers that turned her into a blatant super-skank. In her original run I enjoyed her. I feel she was abandoned too quickly and kinda ruined by the writers that followed. I've always liked female characters with rough edges, but a hidden softer side... I've said numerous times on this forum that Marrow is one of my favorite X-Men, and my number 1 minimate want, lol... I don't remember who the artist was, but I liked him much better than Quitely. Their Uniforms were cooler. They stayed more Unique than Quitleys. I liked Warren's Goatee and buzzcut. Made him kinda badass looking for a while. I liked Bobby's trenchcoat (something later artists even maintained). I liked Kurt's Priestly collar on his jumpsuit. And Chamber still looked like Chamber, just in black. I already mentioned I found Stacy's design cool. Anyway yeah... this post is getting long... I think all eras/writers/artists have their ups and downs... just have to roll with them and hope that things you like stay, while things you hate fade away. Which never works out 100%, but you make do... I loved what Chuck Austen did redeeming Juggernaut, but hated what he did with "Loony" Lorna... lol. So it's all relative. Here's an example of a confusing mish-mashed character retcon that I LIKE... Present day Warren. With his ability to "Werewolf" from Angel to Archangel at will. I think that's cool. Many people like Angel. Many people like Archangel. They're probably equally popular. Now he's the best of both worlds. He can be his normal jovial feathered self when writers want him to be, but he can also be bad-ass metal-shooting screaming death on wings if a writer wants that. I thought that was a bit of a sloppy retcon, but it yielded good results. Edited April 16, 2012 by Gillbob316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Katz Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Does lurch at MMC get exclusives early to review? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Here's an example of a confusing mish-mashed character retcon that I LIKE...Present day Warren. With his ability to "Werewolf" from Angel to Archangel at will. I think that's cool. Many people like Angel. Many people like Archangel. They're probably equally popular. Now he's the best of both worlds. He can be his normal jovial feathered self when writers want him to be, but he can also be bad-ass metal-shooting screaming death on wings if a writer wants that. I thought that was a bit of a sloppy retcon, but it yielded good results. yeah - well . . . i think that has changed again now so, hope you weren't too attached to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geohound Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 1334619864[/url]' post='221015']Does lurch at MMC get exclusives early to review? Hope not. But those he won in a DST Facebook contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Two-Face Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Well, while we're talking about controversy and X-men, i'll just leave this here... God, i love Greg Land's art. I really do. Anyway, one of my FIRST action figures EVER when i was a child was a Psylocke in a black unitard with a red sash, wild pink hair, and a scar/tattoo on her eye. So, mine is somewhere in between Asian and British. I have NO problems with Asian Psylocke, because it's the "look" i grew with, but even now i prefer her "personality" as British Psylocke. She really is becoming a hybrid, as stated above. I blame the Asian thing more on Jim Lee's art style. Guy's got talent and i enjoy his art, but EVERYONE Jim Lee draws looks Asian. At least to me, but they all have the small, slanted eyes, wildly styled hair, and his pencil style just brings it all together. Maybe it was just easier for him to actually draw an Asian (who, ironically, does look Caucasian a LOT of the time...) And yes, my Beast was 90s Animated Beast, so that change bugged me as well. Don't even get me staretd on this ridiculous plotpoint with Angel!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited April 17, 2012 by Twisted Two-Face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillbob316 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Here's an example of a confusing mish-mashed character retcon that I LIKE...Present day Warren. With his ability to "Werewolf" from Angel to Archangel at will. I think that's cool. Many people like Angel. Many people like Archangel. They're probably equally popular. Now he's the best of both worlds. He can be his normal jovial feathered self when writers want him to be, but he can also be bad-ass metal-shooting screaming death on wings if a writer wants that. I thought that was a bit of a sloppy retcon, but it yielded good results. yeah - well . . . i think that has changed again now so, hope you weren't too attached to it I haven't kept up for a couple years and wasn't aware. I just read up on it on wikipedia. Well that sucks, but my point still stands. And since apparently now he's Caucasian with metal wings (the final combination remaining, lol)... I'm sure that won't last and he'll eventually have feathers again under the helm of some writer or another. Really don't think they should have messed with that. It was working, imo. Having Angel and Archangel both make sense... oh well... BUT... this goes back to my point of... guess we have to roll with it, lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 yeah - i liked his 'werewolf' thing as well. It made him a great deal more useful as a character. Still - i'll have to see what the new team decides to do with the WATX team. There's a LOT of new weirdness going on there. I think it'll take me a while to settle into it. anyway - back on topic: Has anyone actually seena Boomer in hand yet? eBay leaks etc . . . i wanna see how the tampo work on her legs looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Katz Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Thanks geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 And since apparently now he's Caucasian with metal wings (the final combination remaining, lol)... I'm sure that won't last and he'll eventually have feathers again under the helm of some writer or another. Really don't think they should have messed with that. It was working, imo. Having Angel and Archangel both make sense... oh well... Problem was they unretconned why Archangel was so violent and callous. Originally Warren said his wings were evil and making him more agressive. This was later retconned out by claiming Warren was just using the new wings as an excuse to act on his own violent impulses. Well turns out Warren was right; the wings, or more importanty the Celestial tech genetic nano viruses Apocolypse used to create them, were indeed evil, and the more Warren assumed his Archangel form, the more he became an extention of his creator's will. Archangel reverted to full evil Horseman mode, tried to go through with one of Apocoluspe style herd culling, and had to be put down hard by his teammates. Except he almost immediately self-resurrected in his current caucasian with more birdlike metal wings form, and with total amnesia. As with all things X, it'll change again shortly. On a similar subject, my brother and I are taking bets on whether Kurt's death will last longer or shorter than Pitor's. (and no, AoA Kurt does not count) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENIME_art Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 IIRC/AFAIK, Movie X-Men got their outfits from New X-Men, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 X-Men (movie) came out in 2000, Morrison's New X-Men comic arc started in 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazwinski Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Are you sure, Tenime? I know that I saw the first X-Men movie before Frank Quitely & Morrison took over the comic and put them in black leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch77 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Does lurch at MMC get exclusives early to review? As Geo said, I got lucky and won a contest so wanted to get that set up on MMC so everyone could see it. If there's anything you guys want to see that I missed with Mirage/Magma just let me know and I'll snap some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENIME_art Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I always heard it was comic-then-movie. I've got volume 10 or something, because Chris Bachalo drew part of it. It was the first time I saw Fantomex, Angel Salvador (dumbest character ever - worse than Beak) laid a bunch of eggs in the tool shed or something; Emma had been shot with a diamond gun? I didn't pick it up until after XIII, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonfreshviper22 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 TENIME_Art said:I've got volume 10 or something, because Chris Bachalo drew part of it. It was the first time I saw Fantomex, Angel Salvador (dumbest character ever - worse than Beak) laid a bunch of eggs in the tool shed or something; Emma had been shot with a diamond gun? I didn't pick it up until after XIII, though. That's "Murder at the Mansion" which was near the very end; Emma got better but that story always puzzled me because they used Bishop and Sage who had never even come close to appearing in Morrison's run. I like the New X-men run but I'm not going to say it's without problems, especially near the end. "Assault on Weapon Plus" is a little too busy as it throws tons of concepts at you with no followup whatsoever and "Planet X" was definitely a dramatic story but it threw a major wrench into Marvel continuity with an entire part of New York being turned into a death factory for humans. As one of the "final" X-men stories, the Magneto parts would have been great but as they were, it left a lot to be explained by other writers to varying degrees of success. "Here comes Tomorrow" is a really bizarre story but does have a lot of payoff for the entire run and I really like the concept of John Sublime. The Nu-Men were also a really cool idea. To make this on topic, my TRU just refreshed the Balder and Crossbones wave and stocked the 2nd set of MvC3. After Zach said that this wave is going to appear after the Avengers movie wave, my search has been a little less manic; I get the impression that it's probably going to show up in decent numbers since I don't think we've seen what TRU wave 15 (or is it 16?) yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENIME_art Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Assault on Weapon Plus. That's it. I liked Bachalo's art in it. I can read a crappy story if the art's good. But I have a hard time reading a good story if the art sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsMarvel fan Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 How do you classify generation x when bachalo was on it? I couldn't read the stories on account of the sloppy page vomit some call art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) How do you classify generation x when bachalo was on it? I couldn't read the stories on account of the sloppy page vomit some call art. \ Sloppy, don't think so. Edited April 23, 2012 by havok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsMarvel fan Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 maybe I have the names mixed up. who did all the distorted and exaggerated features? like Skin with a snowman carrot long nose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonfreshviper22 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 This is Bachalo from Generation X #1 And this is Bachalo from when James Robinson (!) was writing the title, which seems to start in the 30's. So the answer, from what I can tell, is that he drew everything that we're all thinking of. It's interesting as he didn't know he changed his style so drastically and even then 'Assault on Weapon Plus' is even more extreme than the colored Generation X page. Apparently he shifted his style to be in line with the art of Joe Madureira in the late 90's, which gradually spun off into a newer style He's the current artist on Wolverine and the X-men with Jason Aaron writing. I really am impressed, I didn't realize how much he alters his style even within the same project; his covers can depart from his interiors drastically. As a side note, I'd always been used to his "new" style and had not realized he co-created Generation X. Interesting to see how his old work on the title actually resembled Pat Olliffe a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webhead Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 How do you classify generation x when bachalo was on it? I couldn't read the stories on account of the sloppy page vomit some call art. +1 i HATE his art cause even if I squint I can't figure out what he's drawing. He did those awful AOA anniversary miniseries issues too I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog7s Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I seriously can't wait until there's actual news about this wave in this thread. In the meantime, though, put me down as a +1 for not liking Bachalo art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 In the meantime, though, put me down as a +1 for not liking Bachalo art. Same here. We should start a poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You see? You see what happens around here when we go to long without any official annoucements? Utter boredom bedlam! Cat and Dogs, living together... Mass Hysteria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I actually LIKED his art for the AoA series Gen Next. As a supplementary book - i enjoy it and i thought it felt right the gen Next book. It was dark, chaotic - seemed to match the tone of the AoA issues. However, i'm not a fan of his work on WATX - i agree that is is a bit hard to follow. Still - that Mystique/Iceman cover is freaking beautiful. There's no denying that he can create fantastic work. He just doesn't always hit the mark & his style doesn't suit every book. Also - Bring on Rictor (see - i can post on topic if i want to!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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