Mirymate Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Eeeexcellent. My subtle plan to turn this into another make Kang thread is succeeding admirably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 How about I split the irony difference and say Kang is definitely a descendant of Dr. Doom... and of the Richards clan... from different time lines of course. (sorry, it's a compulsion at this point, but for the record I do get what you're saying.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Must resist... explaining... Marvel minutia... So is Kang a mutant then? His name is "Nathaniel Richards" implying he comes from a male lineage in the Richards line and Franklin Richards is a mutant, right? And unless Richard and Sally have another son he must be related to Franklin, so does Kang have any mutant powers or can mutant be breed out of people overtime? Oh well. Nathaniel is also Reed's father's name. And Papa Richards discovered parallel worlds and how to travel them while Reed was in graduate school. Nathaniel still wanders around through time and various alternate worlds exploring, and apparently fathering more children. Fantastic Force member Huntra was Reed's half-sister. It's been implied that either Kristoph Verminard, Stephan Von Doom (Vic's father) or Victor Von Doom himself may also be the result of Nathaniel catting around the multiverse. So Kang is just as likely to be either a half sibling of Reed's, or a descendant of one of those half siblings. In addition, Mutants do not always have mutant children They have a much better chance of having mutant children, but it's still posible for their kids to be born without powers. Best example would be Quicksilver's daughter, Luna, who despite being the child of an Inhuman and a mutant was born a normal human. Powers came later through Terrigan exposure. And the last point is that Kang's Earth is designated Earth 6311. And though Kang is indeed from the 30th century, who then time traveled forward to conquer the 40th century, (got a headache yet?) E-6311 was already different from the 616. For whatever reason, E-6311 did not experience the Dark Ages like Earth 616 and our own world did, and thus was already a millienium ahead of our own technology wise by the 21st century point. And while it is known Nathaniel visted that world their equivelant of the 12th cerntury, it's unknown known whether Kang is the 616 Richards or the Richards and Von Doom families native to 6311. (see now even I have a headache) Heh... hope that clears things up for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm 1:08 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 <Kang history lesson> Maybe that's why they won't make Kang. They don't know how to fit Kang's history into the little text box on the back of the package... So yeah, make Mega Man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vox Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 wait a second.. who is Kang? just kidding, couldn't resist. I'm not a big Marvel reader (outside of civil war) but I enjoyed the most recent Avengers animated series which had Kang as the final baddy to finish out the season. I watched that and I thought - "Hmmm.. why hasn't he been minimated yet?.. I wonder if anyone else cares about this..". Seriously, though, I'm sure it will happen soon.. just not in the MvsC3 line. Now back on topic.. who thinks SDCC will stage the announcement of 10 or 12 new DLC for this game as rumored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Maybe that's why they won't make Kang. They don't know how to fit Kang's history into the little text box on the back of the package... Oh they'd screw it up and write something about Iron Lad or something. At his core Kang is easy to explain: A warrior king from the far future, Kang was the master of all he surveyed. But having conquered all in his own time, Kang looked into the past Heroic Ages for new challenges. Choosing the Avengers to test himself against, the once and future Conqueror returns time again and again to try and best the one force that's ever defeated him. See, no problem. I also really liked his AEMH appearances to, Vox. They added a nice element of nobility and ruthless heroism to the character. And you should see the second half of the first season, featuring Ultron good, good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 wait a second.. who is Kang? just kidding, couldn't resist. I'm not a big Marvel reader (outside of civil war) but I enjoyed the most recent Avengers animated series which had Kang as the final baddy to finish out the season. I watched that and I thought - "Hmmm.. why hasn't he been minimated yet?.. I wonder if anyone else cares about this..". Seriously, though, I'm sure it will happen soon.. just not in the MvsC3 line. Now back on topic.. who thinks SDCC will stage the announcement of 10 or 12 new DLC for this game as rumored? Kang was in no way the final baddie of the season o.O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr baghead Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 words words words Heh... hope that clears things up for you. no... all I got from that was “If a writer wants to do something they can do whatever they want” How can Dr.Doom be an ancestor of Kang (Kang learned about dimensional travel developed by his ANCESTOR Dr.Doom if Dr.Doom is possibly his half-brother?!?! Did Nathaniel Richards 1 have so much fun bonking Doom’s mom he decided to travel a century into the future (you know, so it’s not gross anymore) and bonk the descendant they produced? Does one origin supersede the other: “If Doom is Nathaniel Richard’s son/grandson, then Kang is not. If Kang is Nathaniel Richards Jr then Doom has a different father” it’s clearly just whoever thinks “AAAAAAH! Wouldn’t be so cool if Doom and Richard were (x, y, z, brothers, cousins, father-and-son, the same dude but he’s like Edward Norton in that movie, you know where he’s a normal guy but with a second alter ego who’s crazy and angry) How does a mutant have a NOT mutant child?! If a mutant is a ‘new species’ and not a ‘human with a birth defect’ it’s impossible for the baby to be power not a mutant, a Chimp can’t breed with a human and give birth to a perfectly normal human or a perfectly normal chimp, it’s GOT to be some kind of f**ked up halfling. If Mutants are ‘freaks of nature’ yeah, maybe the lazer eye gene isn’t passed on, but if they’re truly the next step for humanity it doesn’t work that way! They can’t pretend they’re a new species if they’re treating their ‘mutations’ like birth defects, humans don’t suddenly give birth to cromagnium mans because the ‘H-gene’ wasn’t passed along... the ‘mutants don’t always have mutant babies’ seems to be nothing more then a plot device so a mutant parent (ie-Quicksilver) can freak out at their non-mutant baby, or for a non-mutant baby to hate mutants for getting what they should have had (ie-Sabretooth and Mystique’s kid), or a third option: So Richard doesn’t hate Franklin for being boring and normal while he’s so awesome! (think about he calls himself “Mr.Fantastic” but calls his friend with body issues “the Thing”, guy’s clearly got issues and would probably poop his elastic brains out if his son was just a normal person) Does Marvel have a pseudo-science explanation for this? (Like Nathaniel Richards the first take Scott Summer’s dad who’s name I don’t want to look up but also sexes his way through space back to the time of early man where he sexed up a cave lady who gave birth to the true ‘first mutant' so all mutants are descendants of the Summers clan and the countless breedings over the millennia have made the x-gene rare but hidden in all of us? Also was that cavelady’s son Wolverine thus explaining why he looks like a cave man and his attraction to Jean is his Freudian desire for his own literal grandmother coming through, and “Origin” was a made up ‘possible past’ like the Joker’s many origins to trick people from knowing the truth?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) For a lot of it, you have to thank the paradoxical headache that is time travel. Once Papa Nathaniel started moving through time, and into alternate universes, you've got built in headaches. (and to be fair, Ol' Nat was being purposefully vague and evasive about who his Latverian child is, but the most logical interpretation of his story is that he is Kristoph's father)(And if you don't know who Kristoph is... well that's a tale for another time.) We know, because we've seen it depicted on panel and in story, that Papa Nathaniel visited the past of Earth 6311. And likewise he fathered at least one child while he was there. But again, whether Kang is a descendant of Papa Nat, or a 6311 native Richards clan is unknown. Also, Kang claims Doom as an ancestor, but there's no "in book" evidence to validate that claim. Mutants... Put it this way, Xavier and Magnus are big on claiming "homo-superior" as the next step in evolution. But when you look at the established evidence, even pre-M-Day, mutants are just that- a genetic aberrations within the dominant species. Just like red hair, it's a trait dominant in some families, but could also disappear for a generation only to turn up again alter. There are too many examples of non-mutant children, children with different traits than their mutant parent, etc. to actually back up Chuck and Max's claim of a new species. And then there's Franklin. Franklin is a mutant, true enough. But his powers are a result of his parents' mutated DNA rather than the "normal" expression of the X-Gene. Franklin has power psionic powers that neither parent has. There's no telling how these altered genes will express themselves in another generation, if he's destined to have a mutant child himself, or if the mutation stops with him. It's a different case with him. And if you want to discuss this further, my bagheaded friend, we should probably take this to its own thread. Edited July 14, 2011 by Mirymate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edufalcao14 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Felt like I needed to demonstrate my frustration for living in a World without Kang... We should conceive a "Kangless Minimate community"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch77 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 What's up with Kang? Split this out so that everyone could get their Kang love out, all into one combined nice neat thread (and separated from the rest of those normal threads :tongue: ). So being more of a X-Men, Spider-Man reader I know not of this so called "Kang" you speak of. What's his deal? Why is he so important? *btw I am saying this in good humor, I have checked out wikipedia, I realize he was on the IGN to 100 villains list, I'm catching up on the first season of Avengers animated series and so far he seems pretty cool, I just don't know much about him **Also fun factual side note, conqueror is one of the top 1000 misspelled words in the English language. Nice bit of extra evil that Kang has going for him too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsMarvel fan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Kang had a whole arc in Avengers!: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. He's also Immortus, right? Which would also make him MsMarvel's babydaddy. Which would also make him Marcus. And I think he's Iron Lad from Young Avengers. He's his own boxset. A mind-blowing boxset if they include any bio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 wait a second.. who is Kang? just kidding, couldn't resist. I'm not a big Marvel reader (outside of civil war) but I enjoyed the most recent Avengers animated series which had Kang as the final baddy to finish out the season. I watched that and I thought - "Hmmm.. why hasn't he been minimated yet?.. I wonder if anyone else cares about this..". Seriously, though, I'm sure it will happen soon.. just not in the MvsC3 line. Now back on topic.. who thinks SDCC will stage the announcement of 10 or 12 new DLC for this game as rumored? Kang was in no way the final baddie of the season o.O Oops, my bad, I guess I have only seen half of the first season.. or 2/5ths or 3/7ths. Point being, it was my first intro to the Kang character outside of seeing the constant "Kang it, Dang it" stuff in this forum. Now I can officially throw in my vote with the "Make mine Kang" crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well since It now has it's own venue Let's get the confusion that is Kang the Conqueror rolling. The man who would be Kang was born Nathaniel Richards in the year 3025 of Earth 6311. (For those unfamiliar with how Marvel keeps track of their multiverse, each reality has a number, or at least and alphanumeric sequence that the Powers That Be use to keep track of which is which. Mainstream Marvel is 616) Before he was born, the world had achieved peace, harmony, and prosperity for all. A time of intellectual enlightenment, even the other worlds in the galaxy shared in the peaceful co-existence. And Nathaniel was utterly bored. He longed for adventure and excitement. In this advanced age, time travel was known technology, but forbidden as no one wanted anything to happen that might upset the world peace everyone else was enjoying. Nathaniel snook out into some "forbidden ruins" in a "barren wasteland" (aren't there always forbidden ruins in a barren wasteland in every Sci Fi story about a Utopian society?) and discovered a laboratory workshop constructed by his ancestor. Later retelling say bluntly that he came to that conclusion based on it opening for him based on a DNA scan. The lab was Papa Nathaniel Richards of Earth 616, who had visited 6311 in it's equivalent of the 12th century. Realizing that by combining his ancestors technology with advanced technology of his own time, the man who would be Kang hit upon the idea of traveling back in time to get the adventure he craved. Choosing to first visit Ancient Egypt, he shaped the exterior of his time ship to resemble a Sphinx, adapted other pieces of advanced technology to resemble objects of the period. But "something" went slightly wrong, (we'll get into what that something is later) and instead of going to the ancient past of his own reality, he instead materialized in the 616. With the aide of his superior technology, Nathaniel's interest in adventure soon turned to a desire for conquest. Within a year he had set himself up as the Pharaoh Rama-Tut, and in that guise set about making Egypt a powerful conquering nation. But Rama's reign came to an end through the interference of other time travelers. The West Coast branch of the Avengers had been banished back in time by a foe, and made their way to Egypt to steal/use Rama-Tut's time machine to get home. Rama did not take kindly to this idea and imprisoned them. At the same time, the Fantastic Four came back to the same era to try and get a cure for blindness that Rama-Tut allegedly possessed. Rama tried to enslave them as well. The two groups, each unaware of the others presence, wound up running interference for each other, allowing both groups to escape. Things went downhill from there for Rama-Tut, his people turned against them, and with two groups of heroes gunning for him, he retreats to his time ship and sets course for home. Thus ends the first reign of Rama-Tut. But "something" happened during Rama's trip through the time stream and he is forced to exit early into the modern era of the 616. Nathaniel-Tut finds himself in orbit over the Earth, and happens to see Dr. Doom clinging to an asteroid floating through space after his last defeat by the Fantastic Four. On a whim, Rama-Richards rescues Doom and returns him to Earth. But the sight of Doom's weapon laden armor inspires Nathaniel to create an armored identity of his own and try to rule his world. So again he aims his time ship for his home time and heads back into the time stream. But yet again "something" goes wrong and while he does make it back to reality 6311, not that he realized he'd ever left it, instead of returning to his own era, Richards-Tut finds himself in the war ravaged mid 40th century. Undaunted, Nathaniel Richards returns to his remarkably untouched lab (apparently forbidden stayed forbidden for another 100 years) and constructs his now familiar green and purple battle suit and set out on his new road as a conqueror. Calling himself Kang (why I don't know), he killed the leader of a group of raiders and assumed his post. Victory followed victory, until the Earth was under his rule. Then he took his mission to the stars, reclaiming colony after colony, world after world. Within a relative few years, Kang had accomplished his goal. But like Alexander the Great, he despaired because there were no lands left to conquer, or at least none that presented even a passing challenge. Remembering his defeat at the hands of 20th century heroes (I guess 21st century heroes now), Kang decided to go back and test himself against what he perceived to be the strongest of these groups: the Avengers. more later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I would love to comment but any post with more than twenty words is too much much grief . I agree. I probably dis agree. I have one & it is cheaper than Cornholiocollectibles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJohnson Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 If anyone happens to know issue #'s of the comics when these events occur, please post them. Would love to read the original stories! THX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatta Pake Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Kang - brilliant at conquest, $#!££¥ at time travel. Let's face it, Kang has an iconic look. He's blue. He's purple. He's green. He conquers. He deserves his turn in Minimatehood. The problem with Kang is his stupid billowy tunic. Tunics are worn by peasants and proles not king of kings. Kang needs something befitting a dimensional overlord. In short, Kang needs a cape. No one will ever take him seriously in the 21st century wearing a tunic. Maybe average joes all wear capes in the 30th century, and the tunic is a rebellious garment. Like a spikestudded shoulder pad on a ruthless biker, tunics terrify the populace in the 30th century. In short, I prefer we get a Toad before we get a Minimate Kang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storm 1:08 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Did Kang have anything to do with re-jiggering the Multiverse so he gets his own thread now. Anyway, I believe my first Kang comic was the Young Avengers. And when he gets made, I want that big ass gun included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Does anyone know if Kang has ever run into Rip Hunter or Dr. Who in his travels? Also, if he did rejigger the multiverse to create this thread.. does he also have the power to rejigger Chuck into believing Kang is the new Spideymate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 As Dr. Who was a Marvel licensed property in the mid 80's, it's possible. I don't know of any personally and a quick check online didn't reveal any either. Oddly enough, Dr. Who did crossover with the UK Transformers title, and I believe with the Star Trek Enterprise crew during their short stay as a Marvel property. And, Kang was the main villain in the X-Men/STNG comics crossover. So I can connect the two in under six degrees of separation. I am not as familiar with DC as I am with Marvel, but I know that their villain "the Lord of Time" is essentially what Nathaniel calls himself in that universe. (confirmed by Lord of Time's creator, the Kang obsessed Steve Englehart) So if he and Rip ever crossed paths, then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Okay Part Two: things get complicated Kang's first battle with the Avengers goes badly... outfoxed by Rick Jones and his meddling kids Teen Brigade badly. (oh Stan, you wacky bard you) And so he returns home to plan his next move. At this point it gets hard to tell what happens "next" for Kang. He battles the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and Thor among others. But thanks to the confusion of time travel, what happened chronologically for Kang. We know he brings Cap's Kooky Quartet forward in time, to try to impress a girl. Ravonna was the daughter of a ruler of an unconquered land. (whether it's a country on Earth or a different world is unclear) Kang's army prepared to take the land almost as a matter of course. Kang arrived on the scene to give Ravonna's father King Carelius a chance to surrender. Ravonna stands up to him, utterly unimpressed with the conqueror. (It was probably the tunic) Always the type of man to covet want he perceived he could not have, Kang became obsessed with winning Ravonna's hand. Hence he brought the Avengers to his time to defeat and impress her. When that doesn't work, Kang considers being lenient on her father. Well that causes Kang's troops to decide he'd gone soft and turn on him. Kang teams with the imprisoned Avengers and happily enjoys defeating his own army. But in defeat, one of Kang's former henchmen tries to shoot him in the back. Realizing she did love him, Ravonna steps between Kang and the assassin and takes a ray blast for him. Don't know what kind of gun it was, but be glad there weren't more of them. For all his resources, the best Kang could do was keep Ravonna in suspended animation on the brink of death. Being a sick puppy, he places her in a glass tube, on display in his throne room. And allegedly he splits his time between continued conquest and searching for a way to revive his love. That chance comes when the Grandmaster offers to give Kang the power of life or death if he can defeat him in one of the Grandmaster's celebrity death match games. The Grandmaster chose to create his own version of the Squadron Supreme, the Squadron Sinister, as his champions. (thereby creating the future Defender, Nighthawk) Kang chooses the Avengers. Well naturally the Avengers win. Instead of healing his "love" with the power of life, Kang chooses the power of death over the Avengers. Well apparently the power of death is very target specific and since he specified the Avengers as his targets, he had no power over their tag along buddy of the day, the Black Knight. Whitman walked up and smacked Kang around. Kang realized he'd been a royal dumb ass and sent the heroes home so he could brood in peace. But unknown to Kang, as soon as Nathaniel went to bed the night after the game the Grandmaster returned and revived Ravonna. And to be a sore loser, Grandmaster told Ravonna that Kang had the chance to heal her, but chose to attack the Avengers again instead. Ravonna does not take this well, and swears revenge. Grandmaster happily provides her with a time ship of her own, and Ravonna travels the universe gathering the skills and equipment she'll need to for her revenge. She'll turn up again years later to cause the Avengers grief disguised as the space pirate Nebula, but that's yet another story. Though still claiming to love Ravonna, Kang decides that to guarantee victory by producing a powerful heir. Knowing that a woman associated with the Avengers will give birth to a Celestial Messiah that will change the universe, Kang decides he will be that child's baby daddy. But who the mother might be in unclear to history, and he's left with four choices- Scarlet Witch, Mantis, Moondragon, and Agatha Harkness (ew). This leads to a long series of kidnappings, plots, counter plots, and revelations. Kang even finds himself confronted by the time lord Immortus and his future self, Rama-Tut. Yes, future self Rama-Tut. See apparently Kang when Kang gets old, he'll decide he wants to retire to a simpler life, breaks out the Egyptian gear, and goes back to the distant past to live out his life as simple God-King. But then he regrets being such a bad guy, goes forward to foil his own plan. Which he was able to do cause he remembered stooping himself the first time. See, told ya it was complicated. (and yes there is a Kang Immortus connection, of which to this point Kang was unaware of it) When all the dust from this caper settles, the Swordsman is dead, Mantis is revealed as the Celestial Madonna and marries Swordsman's corpse, which is animated by a sentient tree, Vision and Scarlet Witch are also married, Beast joins the Avengers, and Kang apparently died when his time equipment exploded. (Thor lost his temper, bad things happened) Obviously Kang didn't die, but it would be almost ten years before he appeared in the Avengers again. But that's a tale for another time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 'cause Wanda said so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilbofett Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I pretty much want the entire marvel universe minimated. I was thinkin' if they made a Kang 4-pack, could it be called 'Through the Ages'. I mean the different univeres make that term redundant. DST BRING ON EVERYONE YOU HAVEN'T MADE YET!!!!!! :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Man Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 @ Jatta Pake: Kang has worn a cape before. It may've been as early as Avengers vol. 1, number 23 from 1965. I remember him having it on at some point when he was with Ravonna, his doomed lover. Those of you not familiar with the character and wanting to read a fantastic story should seek out "Avengers Forever" in either single issues (1-12) or the softcover or hardcover format that Marvel has released. Written by Kurt Busiek and penciled by Carlos Pacheco and Jesus Marino. It's absolutely fantastic, and I say that as a Marvel and Avengers fan. I'd long enjoyed Kang as a villain I loved to hate, but this story really nailed his pathos. It's just terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirymate Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 First time I remember the cape, MM, was Avengers vol.1, #267... wish I knew the year. But it's the next arc I was gonna detail, as it added a lot to the character. Now he may have worn it at some point in the first Ravonna story, but my Avengers long box is in storage, leaving me with my black and white essentials, so for some of the early stories, the colors have faded in my memory. And yes, Avengers Forever is definitly one of the best Kang stories ever. Kurt plotted it, but co-wrote it with Roger Stern. I was fortunate enough to have been a member of the Avengers Mailing List with Kurt Busiek when he was "just" the writer of Marvels and Astro City up to and through his run on Avengers, and trust me, I have NOTHING on this guy for knowledge of comics minutia. He wrote a few times while working on Avengers Forever what a kick working with Stern, who was the editor of the Avengers when he started writing to the letters page as a kid. Someone on the list asked Kurt who was going to be in Forever, and he replied "Everyone". We thought he was kidding. He wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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