buttheadsmate Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 As a reader of English comics way before I read the US stuff, I still find it incredible that we rarely [if ever] got to know who the artist or the author was ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Let's replace definitive with revitalizing. I'll put it this way - I loved Cap, Daredevil, and Punisher on premise but had never read any books that really made me "get" them. The above runs did that. Now, the Brubaker/Fraction Iron Fist and the Bendis Moon Knight? Those, to me, ARE definitive. I had little care for either character prior, and these books established the characters in my mind. Hutson and Ellis both had very interesting takes on Spector, but neither as fleshed out and lasting as what Bendis did, IMHO Rob, really? They didn't credit the creative team over there? Oh, and Sam? If you like Bru, his Daredevil was excellent, too. Just pretty dark. I MUCH prefer Waid's tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I actually really liked some of the Bendis Daredevil stuff from awhile back, though so far, the Frank Miller and Nocenti/JRJR Daredevil runs are "definitive" in my mind. Edited March 26, 2015 by karamazov80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) In fact, Waid's run ties in to the Rucka Punisher run, so you might read those semi-simultaneously. There were a couple of Spider-Man tie-ins as well. It all works very well and doesn't seem the least bit contrived. Bru took over right after Bendis and was tonally very similar. If you liked one, you might enjoy the other. Just too heavy for me. If you're not too fussed about spoilers, check out The Daredevil Deliberation at www.Panelsonpages.com Good overview of each era, but there ARE spoilers and they are untagged Edited March 26, 2015 by Mnemosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yeeeaaah, not to be a dick, but Bendis's Moon Knight is loathed by most Moon Knight fans. It's an awful mess with no respect to the older continuity, since it follows the mistaken notion, that Marc is so messed up that he believes he's actually different people. The various identities were just tools that Spector used to make his vigilante life easier. Bendis' MK was but a shell of his former self, fanboying at Iron Man, dressing up as others and, generally, having no connection to the older MK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's an awful mess with no respect to the older continuity... So you're saying it's a Bendis book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 It's an awful mess with no respect to the older continuity...So you're saying it's a Bendis book?MK was a Bendis book with a heavy dose of Bendiness. Hell, it felt like I was tripping Bendises when I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I liked the art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I liked the art. The Art was splendid, I'll give the book that. But nothing else, you hear me? Nothing! Besides, MK was basically a set-up for AoU and we all know how that one turned out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 That's all fair. As a non-MK buff, it was just a very fun read. Otherwise, I guess Ellis takes the cake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ellis' Moon Knight has a great opening issue, setting up an intriguing premise, then spins it's wheels for five issues of interesting but ultimately unsatisfying stories. Good comics, but all Ellis' weaknesses as a writer are on full display. I have not read the Bendis Moon Knight because life's too short to spend it reading Bendis comics. I liked the Hudson Moon Knight stuff, to a point, and hated the series that was between Hudson and Bendis. Great Jerome Opena art though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah, that in between WAS the worst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ellis' issues were great, because they chose an aspect of Moon Knight and stuck with it. They went for "the bad-ass spectre" and they delivered just that. Ghosts? Moon Knight beats the shit out of them with Bone Armour. Zombie-Cyborg? He beats him before the fight has even started. Even in your dreams, you can't escape him! But what he got best was Khonshu. Everyone after the classic series turned him into this huge dick who, every time he talked, sounded more like an angry chipmunk than a bloodthirsty god. Ellis chose to go for creepy and mysterious, and I really liked that. Almost everyone after " Marc Spector: Moon Knight ", even Wood (I'll get to him in a second), turned him into a crazy caricature. There's a fine line between being a bad-ass and being simply a senseless slaughter machine. 2006, for me at least, began pretty darn good, but they did away for most of the supernatural stuff, and MK without a hint of horror just ain't MK. I liked a lot though, and it featured many great moments, such as Marc telling both Steve and Tony to stick it. Now Wood, he really messed it up. He went for an espionage angle, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the overall story felt rushed at times and unnecessarilly long at others. But what he really butchered was MK's "psyche". He had him change identities in every damn panel, which, to me at least, means he just looked him up for 5 minutes, read the words crazy, and so he wrote his version of him. It's been a long time since I read the original volume, but I remember that being my favourite. If not, then "Marc Spector" is a close second. Mainly because yeah, there were street stuff, political stuff and whatnot, but there were also religious undertones, which were handled extremely well. Vengeance, Fist and all other smaller runs were pretty good as well. Honestly, the Bendis series is the only one that's awful any way you cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I agree that the Ellis series is great in conception, the the execution was lacking. Like a lot of Ellis comics. Too much of his work reads like he couldn't be bothered to spend more then ten minutes writing the script (which, incidentally, is often how long it takes to read one of his comics). The setup in the first issue (and in Secret Avengers) is really compelling, the subsequent plots are interesting, but the execution is half-assed. I repeat... like a lot of Ellis comics. Brian Wood took over after him? That would not be my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I agree that the Ellis series is great in conception, the the execution was lacking. Like a lot of Ellis comics. Too much of his work reads like he couldn't be bothered to spend more then ten minutes writing the script (which, incidentally, is often how long it takes to read one of his comics). The setup in the first issue (and in Secret Avengers) is really compelling, the subsequent plots are interesting, but the execution is half-assed. I repeat... like a lot of Ellis comics. Brian Wood took over after him? That would not be my choice. The thing with Ellis, is that even if one of his comics is "bad", it isn't actually bad. Short? Yes. Do they leave you unfulfilled? Yes. But they are never boring, or pretentious. Mostly, they never stray from their "genre". He picks an angle and he sticks with it. Then again, he does only 5-6 issues, but that's another story... Now, Wood, he delivered a good story, but an awful Moon Knight tale. He completely butchered the "crazy" aspect, rehashed the "Khonshu chooses another avatar" story and in general didn't do any justice to Spector. I read the issues, and I certainly wasn't bored, but they never made me go nuts over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'm REALLY shocked by the Bendis hate. I get not loving him in a greater Moon Knight context, maybe? But to me as a relative novice, it was a really fun/weird tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glantern Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 In my opinion, Bendis does very little to endear himself to established fanbases. You either like what he's doing, or you can get lost. My first introduction to the guy was when he took over the Avengers and proceeded to kill three of my favorite members of the team and drive another one insane because he personally didn't like those characters. That kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, especially due to how vocal he was about his dislike of the characters. I also can't stand the fact that he decompresses everything to insane levels and his dialogue makes everyone sound the same. But that's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The decompression definitely sucks. The dialogue... I like it, for the most part, so I don't mind it. But I see what you're saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) I'm REALLY shocked by the Bendis hate. I get not loving him in a greater Moon Knight context, maybe? But to me as a relative novice, it was a really fun/weird tale. I feel like a good 50% of the internet is Bendis hate, at least in terms of comic book discussion. I really enjoyed that Moon Knight series, but admittedly I had zero attachment to the character going in. Edited March 30, 2015 by battlecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Exactly where I was at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I enjoy Bendis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glantern Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I enjoy Bendis. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you said in the past that you were never into the classic Marvel stuff? Because if so, then most pressing issue I have with the guy really wouldn't apply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well, I'm officially on the record as saying Bendis is the worst writer in the history of comics. I stand by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Well yeah, it also feels like a good 50% of Hellpop is Bendis hate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellpop Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 That's only because Jeph Loeb's name doesn't come up as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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