3D Printing

[kaipo]

Hey everyone, this has been on my mind for a while. But I wanted to know how many of you saw this video on 3d printing and how it's becoming more affordable and realistic to have in the home. http://www.pbs.org/arts/gallery/off-book-%7C-season-two/offbook-3d-printing/

Of course after watching my thoughts drifted to minimates. This could basically allow mass production of homemade figures. (Good for customizers, but bad for DST). It could also hurt the secondary market with counterfeit figures.

What are your thoughts? Exciting? Horrifying? Neutral? I'm a little on the fence.

[MisterPL]

I'd rather support DST and the people they employ but the potential is pretty mind-boggling.

As a commercial artist, I'd have no problem making figures for my own collection but I'd never sell more than one as original art. I haven't done much research on 3D printing but, as with every other printer on the market, I'm sure the toner is probably what's most expensive.

It's certainly tempting and I've given it some thought but there are definitely ethical and legal implications to consider.

[Jeff]

Making entire figures would be costly and time consuming. BUT....for customs needing that 'one specific hair piece, scarf, fist, etc' it would be perfect.

[Jatta Pake]

Cubify's Cube retails for $1299. The plastic "ink" cartridges are $50. This would be equivalent to laser printers back in the day when they came out.

To me, the technology has two fundamental barriers to widespread adoption:

• 3D modeling is too hard for the average consumer. Ivan (Hail Ivan) is a modeling genius, but your average housewife isn't going to be designing stuff yet. We need the equivalent of Photoshop Elements or Instragram for 3D modeling. Check back in 2023.
• The alternative to 3D computer modeling, and what everyone really wants, is 3D scanning. Right now there are Cloud based options but no consumer level 3D Scanners.

That said, I do see both barriers being overcome in the future. Imagine an iPhone app that lets you scan a copy of your house key. You walk into your local hardware store, upload the scan, and the 3D printer prints out a metal copy. Nice, but you can do that today by just bringing your key into the store. How about this scenario in 2023: You 3D scan your key that you accidentally packed with your luggage when you got on a flight to Free Pyonyang. From the airplane, you 3D scan the key and text it to your housesitter. She curses you for having old fashioned lock and keys instead of voice-recognition locks but heads off to the hardware store to print a key so she can get in and water your plants.

I think 3D printing is a boon for toy makers at the moment. Designers and artists can prototype very quickly, and can experiment with cost reducing designs. Factories still have massive advantages over household 3D printers, and this won't change for a while. These include: wider range of materials available to use, tampo printing, packaging, safety testing, distribution, logistics, etc. Certainly there are implications for collectors as bootleggers and fraudsters have been around forever. But people want originals when collecting. It's not like a piece of fashion you wear to show off - it's meaningful to collectors to have an actual original. You want the original Joe DiMaggio baseball card if your collecting, not the reprint.

[kaipo]

Cubify's Cube retails for $1299. The plastic "ink" cartridges are $50. This would be equivalent to laser printers back in the day when they came out.

To me, the technology has two fundamental barriers to widespread adoption:

• 3D modeling is too hard for the average consumer. Ivan (Hail Ivan) is a modeling genius, but your average housewife isn't going to be designing stuff yet. We need the equivalent of Photoshop Elements or Instragram for 3D modeling. Check back in 2023.
• The alternative to 3D computer modeling, and what everyone really wants, is 3D scanning. Right now there are Cloud based options but no consumer level 3D Scanners.

That said, I do see both barriers being overcome in the future. Imagine an iPhone app that lets you scan a copy of your house key. You walk into your local hardware store, upload the scan, and the 3D printer prints out a metal copy. Nice, but you can do that today by just bringing your key into the store. How about this scenario in 2023: You 3D scan your key that you accidentally packed with your luggage when you got on a flight to Free Pyonyang. From the airplane, you 3D scan the key and text it to your housesitter. She curses you for having old fashioned lock and keys instead of voice-recognition locks but heads off to the hardware store to print a key so she can get in and water your plants.

I think 3D printing is a boon for toy makers at the moment. Designers and artists can prototype very quickly, and can experiment with cost reducing designs. Factories still have massive advantages over household 3D printers, and this won't change for a while. These include: wider range of materials available to use, tampo printing, packaging, safety testing, distribution, logistics, etc. Certainly there are implications for collectors as bootleggers and fraudsters have been around forever. But people want originals when collecting. It's not like a piece of fashion you wear to show off - it's meaningful to collectors to have an actual original. You want the original Joe DiMaggio baseball card if your collecting, not the reprint.

Yea, although it could severely devalue loose minimates, especially the blanks since those would be easily reproduced.

Thanks for all the insight though. I also read somewhere about 3D scanners, it would be pretty scary if someone could scan your key and break into your house though.

[cylonchaney]

DST and eBay scalpers have nothing to fear for a while yet anyway. The current hobbiest machines are slow, error-prone and leave layer lines in the final product. Fun as hell to play with but they are nowhere close to "push a button out comes a mate" quality.

I too am working on a design for my own mate-like block figure that I can print and use to make customs at larger sizes. I consider my machine to be well dialed in. I've printed items with a layer height of .05 mm which is at the high end of hobbiest quality. I can tell you that a 1:1 scale minimate of good quality would take a lot of post print finishing work and would be a challenge for most hobbiest printers. Don't even think about guns, knives, etc. Furniture and larger accessories, no problem.

@kaipo - A guy from our local hackspace printed and used a copy of the hackspace key. I expect a movie scene any day now where someone 3d prints a key from a long distance photo, like maybe a Bond flick.

Scanning is coming along too. Check out Reconstructme. All you need is a quality video card and a Kinect for instant 3d scanning. 123dCatch will create a 3d object from a series of pictures of an object.

[monkeycrumb]

This is one of my holy grails for the next few years when the output has better resolution and doesnt require a ton of sanding. We already have 3d scanners, people are hacking kinect sensors for cheap 3d scanners.

I look at 3d printers the same as the current Lego aftermarket stuff - it will never replace or be a true competitor to the original mass produced stuff, but for customs and one of a kind stuff it will be excellent. I think the cost of manufacturing a minimate body will be too expensive, but for hairpieces and wings, etc, it should be fine.

The best printer for this stuff is the type that solidifies a liquid resin from a pool of material, not the current hobby level machines that are on the home market. Hasbro has an industrial strength one to prototype their stuff and the quality is superb, no scan lines! I saw the output at their convention appearances and spoke with the team at length.

Never say never. Remember dot-matrix printers? They are a far cry from todays home printing tech, and I trust 3d printers will follow the same path, hopefully at a faster pace. As for the average housewife being unable to 3d model? Well, how many people can create stickers? Yet there are plenty of free designs here to print at home. Theres already a community for free 3d designs out there, and I expect them to grow as the tech gains further adoption.

But also remember we have the technology to print our own comic books at home, and who even does that? Home printing hasnt destroyed the comic book market.

There are a few possibilities for minimates specifically that resolve around the cost of printing an entire body. If its cheap enough to print a quality full mate, then customizers will buy extras for printed parts. If its expensive, then while you can print hair pieces, you still need a body to make your custom on. BUT customizers have rarely been a sizeable percentage of sales for any major toy line. And regardless, everyone will prefer to buy the originals from DST first due to cost and quality. The only market that might suffer is the aftermarket, but even then most will prefer the originals.

Bottom line is, I think 3d printing will be a blessing, not a curse for minimates. People will buy more to customize or accessorize. People will be more willing to buy 2 packs that have only 1 character they want if they know they can customize with the other, or will be more willing to buy entire packs or lines just to customize. I may not like Street Fighter, but for a few hucks more I can turn them into Star Wars characters! I only fear there will be more competition for clearance and sale fodder down the road.

[buttheadsmate]

I think the real danger lies in people 3D printing 3D printers.

[DSTZach]

I think the real danger lies in people 3D printing 3D printers.

The market would collapse! Of course, by then we will all be dead from 3D printed bullets.

And I think the differences between an injection-molded figure and a layer-by-layer printed figure will be instantly noticeable to anybody, so I can't imagine there will be a counterfeiting problem, especially since few Minimates are worth that much, and the ones that ARE worth anything need detailed paint applications and tampo printing, which you can already do on top of any existing 'Mate, if you have the materials.

And you can already reproduce pretty much anything by making a mold of it and casting it in a pressure pot, so it's not like 3-D printing is a game-changer except in the realm of exporting digital forms. It's not about reproducing things, it's about CREATING things. Which, again, you can already do with clay, just less precisely.

[groundhog7s]

Just thought I'd point out that this exists:

[cylonchaney]

Did you come across this on April 1 by any chance? It only exists in someone's Photoshop-like app.

... for now.

Just thought I'd point out that this exists:

[groundhog7s]

Actually, I found it on ThinkGeek.com, one of the coolest sites to buy from. Now, someone there might be making these with their own 3d printers though...

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f487/?pfm=rightcolumn_NewStuffFTW_10

[Punisher]

That's part of Think Geek's 2013 April Fools items

Edited April 3, 2013 by Punisher

[groundhog7s]

Shh...you're not supposed to say anything.

Spoilsport.

[Lobsterman]

I think the real danger lies in people 3D printing 3D printers.

You... just blew my mind.

[kaipo]

This is one of my holy grails for the next few years when the output has better resolution and doesnt require a ton of sanding. We already have 3d scanners, people are hacking kinect sensors for cheap 3d scanners.

I look at 3d printers the same as the current Lego aftermarket stuff - it will never replace or be a true competitor to the original mass produced stuff, but for customs and one of a kind stuff it will be excellent. I think the cost of manufacturing a minimate body will be too expensive, but for hairpieces and wings, etc, it should be fine.

The best printer for this stuff is the type that solidifies a liquid resin from a pool of material, not the current hobby level machines that are on the home market. Hasbro has an industrial strength one to prototype their stuff and the quality is superb, no scan lines! I saw the output at their convention appearances and spoke with the team at length.

Never say never. Remember dot-matrix printers? They are a far cry from todays home printing tech, and I trust 3d printers will follow the same path, hopefully at a faster pace. As for the average housewife being unable to 3d model? Well, how many people can create stickers? Yet there are plenty of free designs here to print at home. Theres already a community for free 3d designs out there, and I expect them to grow as the tech gains further adoption.

But also remember we have the technology to print our own comic books at home, and who even does that? Home printing hasnt destroyed the comic book market.

There are a few possibilities for minimates specifically that resolve around the cost of printing an entire body. If its cheap enough to print a quality full mate, then customizers will buy extras for printed parts. If its expensive, then while you can print hair pieces, you still need a body to make your custom on. BUT customizers have rarely been a sizeable percentage of sales for any major toy line. And regardless, everyone will prefer to buy the originals from DST first due to cost and quality. The only market that might suffer is the aftermarket, but even then most will prefer the originals.

Bottom line is, I think 3d printing will be a blessing, not a curse for minimates. People will buy more to customize or accessorize. People will be more willing to buy 2 packs that have only 1 character they want if they know they can customize with the other, or will be more willing to buy entire packs or lines just to customize. I may not like Street Fighter, but for a few hucks more I can turn them into Star Wars characters! I only fear there will be more competition for clearance and sale fodder down the road.

Thanks for your thorough response. It's pretty interesting that Hasbro has one that's pretty capable of producing high quality stuff. I wonder how long that technology will be available to the average consumer. (10-20 years?)

I think the real danger lies in people 3D printing 3D printers.

The market would collapse! Of course, by then we will all be dead from 3D printed bullets.

And I think the differences between an injection-molded figure and a layer-by-layer printed figure will be instantly noticeable to anybody, so I can't imagine there will be a counterfeiting problem, especially since few Minimates are worth that much, and the ones that ARE worth anything need detailed paint applications and tampo printing, which you can already do on top of any existing 'Mate, if you have the materials.

And you can already reproduce pretty much anything by making a mold of it and casting it in a pressure pot, so it's not like 3-D printing is a game-changer except in the realm of exporting digital forms. It's not about reproducing things, it's about CREATING things. Which, again, you can already do with clay, just less precisely.

Ah, I see. I guess like monkeycrumb said, it would be more of a blessing than a curse.

[Onyx_6]

If I were to do this, I would probably use the 3D scanning/printing to scale up existing characters who are just too small. Hulk. Juggernaut. Abomination. Giant man.

These characters, too me, are near perfect as DST made them. Scaling them up by 25-50% would knock them out of the park.

[kaipo]

someone could print out a bunch of ghost rider bikes too. hehe

[winkerbean]

Soon we'll be able to draw on our own 3d accessories!

[youbastards]

While I think the idea is good, the results leave a lot to be desired. It definitely looks like it could be a cheaper entry level 3d printer, though I suspect it might become more of a kid's toy than an actual alternative to professional 3d printers.