The Wrestling Thread

[karamazov80]

I agree with nearly everything you say (the Punk segment was MAGNIFICENT!). . .except the thing about Seamus. I'm sure he does work hard, but he got where he got because of his size and looks--that includes being handed titles, and being part of a big joke by McMahon to treat Bryan like a joke at Wrestlemania a couple of years ago. He is just a less talented Cena in my mind. And McMahon just bends over backwards to give him every opportunity possible, including those stupid vignettes he's in now. Of course I respect his work ethic, but how many Daniel Bryans of the world have worked twice as hard to learn how to be genuinely good and entertaining in the ring, with nothing to show for it because of McMahon's bias? The fans have dictated the Summerslam move. McMahon has been holding Bryan back as much as possible for the last couple of years but it's all come to a head now and he couldn't ignore the popularity of Bryan anymore. But that is the only way guys like Bryan or CM Punk can make it because McMahon will keep shoving Cenas and Seamuses and Rybacks down everyone's throat as much as possible.

So. . .I support the Seamus boos. I don't feel that Seamus himself deserves it, but what he stands for does.

[hellpop]

He's much, much better then Cena, who still doesn't seem to understand how to sell the affects of a beating. My favorite match last year was the 3 falls match that Sheamus and Bryan had post-WM. And, yeah, Bryan's great in it, but Sheamus does a great job selling the beating Bryan gave him. Sheamus is very capable in the ring, and has a great understanding of babyface in-ring psychology. He's just been saddled with a terrible character, that often comes off as a twelve year old.

[karamazov80]

I was referring to charisma and mic skills in terms of Cena having more ability. Few are as good as Cena on the mic. Maybe you're right and I can't see Seamus for what he is, but I just don't see anything particularly special about what he does in the ring. Could very well be an unfair bias on my part against 'roided freaks, but he comes off as pretty average to me all the way around.

Edited July 16, 2013 by karamazov80

[storm 1:08]

Here's the signing schedule for SDCC:

- Thursday 7/18 3pm – 4pm WWE® Autograph Session. Come get your brawl on with WWE® Superstars The Miz and Dolph Ziggler. Stop by at 9:30am to get tickets, first come, first served.
- Friday 7/19 11am – 12pm WWE® Autograph Session. Bring on the action! Rey Mysterio, Mick Foley and Daniel Bryan will be on hand for autographs. Stop by at 9:30am to get tickets, first come, first served.
- Saturday 7/20 11am – 12pm WWE® Autograph Session. Come battle with the best! Sheamus and Ryback will be on hand for autographs. Stop by at 9:30am to get tickets, first come, first served.

I never really tried getting autographs from WWE wrestlers at SDCC, But Ziggler and Bryan are tempting. I wouldn't even know what to say to them...

And K80, I'll try to get those Saturday autographs for you.

Edited July 16, 2013 by storm 1:08

[karamazov80]

Storm, you are a gentleman and a scholar *(self) hi five*

[storm 1:08]

Storm, you are a gentleman and a scholar *(self) hi five*

I read that in a Damien Sandow voice, hehe. And I know you love Ryback and Sheamus so I'll be first in line on Saturday for you! (No, not really...)

Man, I haven't had time to watch RAW yet. And probably won't get to see it until after SDCC. But hearing about you guys talk about it, seems I should at least make an effort to watch the Punk segment and the RVD/Jericho match.

[hellpop]

Definitely, definitely watch the Punk segment. It's a can't miss.

[karamazov80]

Agreed. They were both excellent, but the end of the show was the biggest event of the night IMO.

[MisterMiracle]

Man, that might have been the best episode of Raw ever. If only they were that good every week.

[hellpop]

What a great match between Bryan and Cesario tonight. Too bad it was surrounded by the Swagger and Rybeck matches. It's just criminal how they underuse Cesario. I thought the Austin crowd was weird; one minute, they'd be dead quiet, and the next, they'd be chanting "this is awesome".

So I know none of us really care much about TNA, but they are starting to look like they might be facing the end. They've had a really bad couple of weeks, with stories of people not being paid and people being let go. It's just too bad they aren't better. Wrestling in the US needs another promotion to keep WWE honest, but TNA just isn't it. I think, if they do go under, the real beneficiary will be ROH. There's a lot of guys that are well established that I just can't see going to WWE, especially if it means going to developmental first. Sure, they'd put Angle, Sting, and the Dudleys right on Raw, but what about AJ Styles? Samoa Joe? Bobby Rude? I don't know. I could see at least some of those guys deciding that ROH is the better fit.

[karamazov80]

Yeah, Bryan/Cesaro was great. I thought his thing with Ryback wasn't too bad, either to be honest, though not a 4 star match or anything. Did seem like an odd crowd. As for TNA, that could be a good thing if some of those guys get WWE contracts out of it. But yeah, WWE needs some form of competition. I don't know that TNA was ever that, though.

[storm 1:08]

Still need to catch up on last week and this week's Raw.

So at SDCC, I passed by the Spike TV booth and was told that Christopher Daniels and Frankie Kazarian (a.k.a. Bad Influence) were doing a signing. I looked over and saw only about 10 people in line at the time (I didn't know when the signing started). Overall, they seemed a little indifferent being there. Daniels seemed like he was trying to enjoy himself a little. He was kind of snarky in a playful kind of way, I thought. But Kaz seemed whatever/I'm too cool for this. Kind of in-character for both. Not passing judgement as they could be tired (I think Impact tapings were the night before in Kentucky) and/or down that most people don't give a crap about them and are just getting autographs for no reason.

I tried to show that I knew something by engaging with them. Daniels was fun and quick witted when I mentioned to him that I saw him at my first indy show in APW in 2000/2001 and he responded that was when he was 45. Kaz was like, "APW... wow." I felt I got a little respect back from Kaz after I thanked them as he seemed mainly indifferent throughout the time I was in line. Overall, I had fun with what little moments I had from them and would have talked with them more but random people kept getting in line and I had to go somewhere else.

[karamazov80]

Too bad the lines were too short, but it doesn't surprise me. TNA is bush league, and those guys aren't exactly headliners. I'm a big Daniels fan though. Love Curry Man, who was IWGP Jr. tag team champion with. . .Daniel Bryan once upon a time.

[hellpop]

Aren't they both into comics? I thought they were, but I could be wrong. I try to never judge anyone signing at these things too harshly, as I'm sure it's really not very fun.

[karamazov80]

Anyone here caught the Divas reality show yet? My wife watched them, and convinced me to watch, as well. For the most part it's crap I don't care about (women being catty with one another, complaining about trivial crap, etc.). But you do get some nifty behind-the-scenes insight into the industry and the wrestlers/staff themselves that you wouldn't otherwise. Seeing John Cena's house vs. Daniel Bryan's, and their associated differences in lifestyles, is a real trip (Cena's home is a multi-million dollar mansion, while Bryan's home is his parents' old house). And the behind the scenes stuff about Wrestlemania was pretty neat. They also show some of the unsung heroes like seamstresses and talent relations people. I'm sure it is more scripted than they let on, but despite it being an E! reality show about the divas, there is some good stuff there for fans of wrestling in general.

[hellpop]

I'm enjoying listening the the recaps on the Bryan and Vinnie Show on the Wrestling Observer (spoiler: they hate it) but that's about it. I can't bring myself to watch, even thought I agree the idea of seeing these guys in a different context is interesting. Of course, there's not a lot of truth in there. Bryan Danielson doesn't actually live in his parents house; he lives in San Diego. Though I've no doubt he doesn't own a TV and would like to move back there someday. One thing I thought was interesting (and subtle) that I haven't heard anybody mention is that Bryan mentioned Cena's mansion in his promo the night after we saw it on TD.

Not gonna type any more (my neck's been sore all day), but I do have to say that the Punk/Heyman/Lesnar feud has been awesome. Can't wait for this match.

[Freaqualizer]

I, as well, am really enjoying the Punk/Lesnar fued. But am I alone in feeling like this is an absurd mismatch? Punk is such a great performer that he can make a paperbag look legit. Lesnar is an amazing athlete for his size, even his botched shooting star press was amazing! Lately, Brock has just been this thug-brute character. I feel like this match isn't going to cater to Punk's strengths. If he wins an all out brawl, it may feel a bit far-fetched. Will it sell tickets? Yes. Is it entertaining? Yes. Is Punk the greatest in the world? Yes! YES! YES! YES! Y..sorry I got carried away. I just hope the match is well paced and as believable as a scripted sport can be.

[hellpop]

I think the way they've built to this match has been brilliant. Lesnar kicked the crap out of Punk the first time they met up, as you would expect. Last night, Lesnar beat him up again, but Punk got some shots in, even knocked him off his feet, and had the advantage until he turned his back on Lesnar. So I think Punk has shown enough to make me think he's got a chance. Really, the booking leading up to this match has been fantastic.

So, I was thinking earlier today that the Punk/Heyman/Lesnar program and the Ziggler/AJ/ Big E program are essentially the same (longtime heel pair split up after heel smark favorite goes face, with a big monster as a proxy). Yet while the Punk angle's been damn near perfect, the Ziggler/AJ split, which should be a pretty hot angle, has been a disaster. Funny how they take two similar programs in different directions, and one works and one doesn't. I'm just going to assume that Punk and Heyman are basically writing their own angle.

[karamazov80]

I should clarify that they don't say Danielson currently lives in his parents house (they say he shares an apartment with Brie in San Diego), but that he plans on eventually moving into his parents' house when he retires. As part of the show, all four of them go to Cena's mansion, then they all fly to Washington to Danielson's house. Could be BS, though. I am fairly sure that much of the show is scripted.

Edited August 7, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

So... SummerSlam's this week. Anyone feeling it? As usual, the WWE did a nice job building up the main events, but kinda crapped out on the undercard. Two matches that should be really hot, Ziggler vs Big E and Cody vs Sandow, feel DOA. Cody blew whatever interest I had left in his feud with Sandow on Monday when he admitted that "I'd have probably done the same thing". So why are you f***king with him then? As for Ziggler... I just don't get it. He was primed for a nice babyface run, after a great turn, but it's been terrible. Really, he and Cody are in the same boat. WWE did a great job when they turned them, but then had no idea what to do for the follow up. Anyway, my prediction now is that Ziggler will turn again in the mixed tag, reuniting with AJ and leaving Big E a face (where he belongs anyway).

I don't think the build for Cena vs Bryan has been as good as it could be, but the match really does sell itself. I thought their promo on Monday was quite good, although it was a little unfocused at times. They only now seem to have figured out that the crux of this angle should be "career wrestler vs WWE superstar". But whatever, Bryan Danielson will be in the main event at SummerSlam, where he'll win the WWE title before Randy Orton cashes in on him. Orton goes heel, becomes the corporate champion, with Bryan chasing him. Throw in maybe a post-Lesnar CM Punk, and you've got a helluva angle to carry Raw while Cena has elbow surgery.

I also want to mention that I think they got the opponents backwards for the US and World Title matches. I like Christian just fine, but at this point I know the PTB don't see him as a main event guy, so the match doesn't feel very important. Rob Van Dam is still in his comeback glow, so you might as well go with the hot hand. Is there anything else noteworthy on this show? Bray Wyatt's first match, I guess. Eh. Punk vs Lesnar can't get here soon enough, though.

[karamazov80]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I was also thinking about how weird it was that Ziggler had no heat whatsoever recently. Cody's comment, for some reason I remember it, and I think it's OK because he said, "I would have done the same thing, knowing what I know now" or some such--in other words, knowing Sandow was going to screw him. Still an odd comment, but it seems like Cole or JBL asked the question, and I don't know where Cody could have gone from there without putting himself into a hole--he either sounds like a jerk heel, or a naive idiot for not having the killer instinct, so I think his response was about as good as he could have done.

I think Bryan has done the best he can with the little opportunity he's had to build the match. Would be a crying shame if he won and immediately lost to Orton, but I can see it. Totally agree that RVD should be in the title match, but they're building this up like Christian will be retiring soon. If so, then he deserves to get a pseudo-push before he leaves IMO.

Edited August 16, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

Ziggler's flop as a face has been very weird. With both him and Cody (and Miz and Del Rio, really), it's like they turned them and just said "okay, go be a babyface". With ZIggler, I think they made a huge mistake by having him dump AJ, instead of the other way around. If he says something like "look, I'm not breaking up with you, but I need you to stay out of my matches", and then she dumps him, he's now the sympathetic guy. Likewise, they should have had Cody just say "we all know I should have won that briefcase, but I'm just going to have to with the world title the old fashioned way, like my dad did", and then have Sandow taunting him, it would have gone over a lot better.

[karamazov80]

Yeah, with Cody and Ziggler, they're trying to get the audience behind them because they are such jerks to bad guys (stealing the briefcase, breaking up with AJ and saying horrible things about her). I think the audience would be more into them if they took the higher ground though. Their behavior works if they are the Rock, but neither of those guys is the Rock.

[hellpop]

So, your new eternal example of addition by subtraction: Brooke Hogan was fired by TNA.

[MiniFiend UK]

Yet another PPV has caught up with me, I just dont seem to get chance to catch up at the moment but I'll give it a shot on predications.

WWE Title Match

Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena. The meat an two veg of the whole show. I gotta fly my fan boy flag an go Yes Yes Yes Daniel Bryan. I do have not a get out as I think he will win but I can see Orton cashing in an taking the title. I just see Bryan doing really well in the longer run chasing a heel Orton.

Special Referee: Triple H



World Heavyweight Title Match

Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio. Yawn no interest I've never been a fan of captain charisma an ADR does nothing for me so whoever.



WWE United States Title Match (Kickoff Pre-show)

Rob Van Dam vs. Dean Ambrose. I would love RVD to win this but I'm going with Ambrose. RVD is hot right now but I think he should be used the same way as Jericho as a hi lvl development talent to get the newer guys over.



Ring of Fire Match

Kane vs. Bray Wyatt. gotta go with Bray Wyatt just cant see WWE killing his push straight off as he just got to the big stage.



CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar. Hmm hard one this. I'm a Punk fan but I hope Lesner wins just to keep building this feud up to a bigger pay off against Lesner and Hyman later.



Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow. I much preferred these two as a tag team but out of the Two I like Sandow just cause his gimmick remindeds me of the Larry Poffo Genius stuff. so i hope Sandow wins.



Dolph Ziggler and Kaitlyn vs. AJ Lee and Big E Langston. I feel sorry for Dolph that Concussion really seems to have put the skids on his build up, he was doing well now its kinda back down the pole. I will go with Ziggler as he needs the momentum.



Natalya vs. Brie Bella. Well seeing it seems have a reality show pushing the Diva's now I will go with whichever Bella it is but really I dont care.