The Wrestling Thread

[hellpop]

Big Randy Orton fan, huh?

Not a very good PPV overall, I thought. Main event was pretty good, but I think those two can do better. No other match really stands out, including the Punk one, though I should point out that I missed most of the women's match when my daughter had to be put back to bed. I feel safe in guessing that didn't steal the show.

Edited September 16, 2013 by hellpop

[karamazov80]

I only saw the main event (and missed the beginning of that one), but I thought it was really good. We may be getting spoiled seeing Bryan wrestle so much nowadays. He never takes a night off, so his PPV matches, even when very good, don't seem as good as they probably are IMO. Maybe he didn't really step it up to some other level, but I'm not sure if that's possible! Barring his going back to some of his ROH-styled technical matches, maybe, but I don't know if he's willing to do one of those in the WWE.

[hellpop]

I dunno if WWE is willing to let him do one...

You certainly didn't miss much. Terrible finish to the ADR/RVD match. Ambrose and Ziggler had a pretty good match, but had absolutely no heat. You know what was actually the second best match on the show? And unannounced match between Curtis Axel and Kofi Kingston that HHH made to open the show. Yes, we had two Curtis Axel matches. It was that kind of PPV.

The one thing that really stood out to me, actually, was how little everybody in the building, including the announcers, cared about the Miz/Fandango match. I guess that's to be expected with those two, but Fandango's still sort of over. But Miz as a face is just the biggest heat vacuum I've ever seen. The crowd started a Summer Rae chant at one point (can't blame them there) and the announcers spent most of the match talking about Detroit sports history. It was kind of amazing, really. Miz has taken over from the Divas as the part of the show people care about the least, which I wouldn't have thought possible.

[karamazov80]

Yet he's always on TV for some reason. I don't really get it myself. He obviously is flat and uninteresting to viewers. I've seen him have a handful of good matches, but. . .nothing really special in that area. Mic skills are sub-par. No charisma.

[hellpop]

I think his mic skills and charisma are fine, but not for a babyface. He's just not likeable. I think I finally figured out what they are trying to do with him, which is to turn him into their version of Ryan Seacrest, Carson Daly, that guy that hosts the post-Walking Dead show... but they don't seem to realize that nobody likes those guys. They are douches, and nobody likes douches. So turn him back to a heel. Have him become the mouthpiece for the corporation. He'll get his heat back in no time.

So I ended up sending a question in to the Wrestling Observer mailbag about pairing Antonio Cesaro with Paul Heyman, and Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer answered it on last night's show. Dave said that he hadn't heard if that had ever been talked about, but seemed to like the idea. Said that he would have liked to have seen Cesaro in the spot that went to Rybeck (me too). Thought that Cesaro could go face, but that he'd need to get more over as a heel first, which probably isn't going to happen in the spot he's in now.

[karamazov80]

Those guys have sense, so it makes. . .sense they would agree with that

I think the Miz tries really damn hard. But he just doesn't have "it." He never really did. I agree he makes more sense as a heel, but even there I think he's average.

[hellpop]

I guess I've always had a bit of a soft spot for him considering how well he was able to get himself over when he went to Raw, against all odds. If you remember, he'd been on ECW, first in a dance troupe with (I think) Kelly Kelly an Layla, and then in the tag team with Morrison (maybe that was Smackdown). Anyway, he came to Raw and started cutting promos calling out Cena, and when Cena wouldn't come out he'd call it a win (obviously riffing off the old Jericho/Goldberg WCW stuff). And the announcers were calling him delusional, but the thing is... Miz was right. I remember Lawler saying something like "I can't call out Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin, and when they don't show declare it a win". No, but you can call out Cena when he's in the building, which is what Miz was doing, and if Cena isn't accepting the challenge then you have to take it as a win for Miz. Anyway, I just liked that this guy, with such an obvious lack of talent, got himself over basically by himself. But there's really no way to defend anything he's done since his title run.

[karamazov80]

I can't disagree with what you're saying. He certainly overachieved on a level I'm not sure anyone else has in recent years (maybe David Arquette ). The team with Morrison was a'aight, but he could disguise some of his deficiencies by being in that team.

Tell the truth, I think I'm still angry at the guy for WWE allowing him to beat Benoit once many years ago. I remember that happening, and just thought. . .WTF? And then Bryan got stuck with the Miz at NXT, and then even feuded with him. I thought that was such a bizarre situation to have one of the best wrestlers on earth stuck with. . .the Miz as his mentor/trainer? And also, he's just so damn annoying. Then he's taking TV time and attention away from those who really deserve it. Cesaro gets passed over time and time again, while Miz gets every opportunity you could think of nowadays.

Edited September 16, 2013 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

Pretty good Raw last night. I missed the first half (we watch Breaking Bad on Monday nights usually, and... wow ), but I want to go back and watch it. But since we were talking about the Miz...

So you're the Miz. You're in front of your hometown crowd, and your parents. You want to make a big splash. I know! I'll ask Brad Maddox for a match against Randy Orton! Randy Orton, the guy who's whole gimmick is that he's a stone cold killer, who you know is in a super-bad mood after loosing the WWE championship the night before, the guy who tells you right at the beginning of his song that he hears voices. How did you think that would turn out?

[karamazov80]

Yeah. . .McMahon likes to do that sort of thing in front of the hometown crowd. An easy way to build excessive heat. The opening wasn't all that surprising in hindsight. I guess my surprise at the PPV was affected by my short-sightedness, not thinking something would happen on Raw I'm really curious where they are going with the story now that a segment of the locker room has apparently rebelled against Triple H.

[MiniFiend UK]

One of the online wrestling sites has linked up so NXT development classes promo's that I dont think ppl where supposed to really see. There is some good stuff in there especailly as it gives you a view into what goes on and some ppl not yet seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLat1zp-aZ5Qhquzc3xYO1CWb7gxjJbo1o&v=gLZPN_A65n8

[hellpop]

Yeah, I heard about this, but didn't see it. I'll have to check them out. I've watched a little NXT mainly for El Generico. Guy's great.

So, the thing that's really caught my attention recently is TNA. Not that I've watched it. But the stuff going on there... crazy. So, you may have heard, they've been in a lot of trouble recently. Well, AJ Styles cut a "pipe bomb" style promo a couple weeks ago, basically burying the company (remember, he's now the guy challenging Bully Ray for the title). Dixie Carter responded... by turning heel. Yes, that will save TNA: a Dixie Carter heel turn.

Well, this week Hulk Hogan got involved. Now, on next week's show, Dixie forced Hogan to choose. Team AJ or Team Dixie. And Hogan... chose to quit. The show ended with Dixie grabbing onto his leg, begging him to stay. It's no secret that Hogan's contract is up (on Monday, I think), and this is what they do to potentially write him off TV. Unbelievable.

[karamazov80]

Considering this is TNA. . .it is totally believable They are so horribly dysfunctional, and have been for ages. Couldn't even keep track of who was allied with who, who was supposed to be good vs. bad, what kind of stupid gimmick they would come up with next, etc.

http://youtu.be/rKlNp7frkGc

[hellpop]

Bryan Alvarez had an interview with Sonjay Dutt the other day, and he called that the worst match that he was ever in. Talked about how there were a couple times that he climbed up on the apron, then quietly climbed back down when no one grabbed him. I've never seen it, so I'll have to give the match a watch.

If I were put in charge of TNA's creative, the first thing I would do is end the power struggles among onscreen authority figures. Seriously, battling to be in control of TNA... why? What's the point? Second thing I'd do: no more factions.

[karamazov80]

I don't think it would make a big difference. The problem is the lack of creativity and good writing. WWE storylines aren't the greatest, but they seem like epic literary masterpieces compared with TNA. There's nothing inherently wrong with authorities vying for influence, or having factions, but there is something terribly wrong with doing it the wrong way. And I know it's not the wrestlers' fault (unless the wrestlers are allowed creative influence there), because guys who are pretty good to even great elsewhere (like Kurt Angle) come off as talentless, idiotic buffoons in TNA during "dramatic" sequences.

[hellpop]

At this point I don't think anything would make a difference. They have a core audience, but the majority of wrestling fans have simply tuned out TNA, good or bad. There's a lot of speculation that Spike TV would buy the promotion, since it's one of their highest-rated shows, but I think they would be well advised to simply start a new promotion, if it comes to that. Clearly, they have brought dishonor to the initials TNA.

[MiniFiend UK]

I do watch TNA when i get the chance. Its on a free channel in the UK along with the PPV's few days after the original air date. The probI have is even when they do good matces. Hogan be it male or female, Bishoff etc just kill the buzz

TNA need to go back to what made WCW better for awhile. I aint saying just good wresting. WCW lightweight stuff was fantatic at times an ppl shone.

sorry cant concetrate beer lol

[karamazov80]

Yeah, they have great talent and great potential matches, but Hogan, Bubba Ray, or some other random guy I'm not familiar with usually seems to get involved and just ruin it all somehow, even when that goes down. Hell, Austin Aries and Chris Sabin were both champions at one point! But my response was, "meh."

[hellpop]

I think the official slogan of TNA Wrestling should be "meh".

Speaking of meh, Raw was okay this week. This was my favorite part:

Stephanie grooving to Dusty's music. I laughed and laughed. I love Stephanie.

[karamazov80]

I missed almost the entirety of Raw because I went running, and then focused on the Saints game. I'll need to sign up for that streaming service one of these days.

[hellpop]

Great googly-moogly, was that a bad PPV.

Edited October 7, 2013 by hellpop

[karamazov80]

I completely forgot about it!

[hellpop]

Lucky you!

[MiniFiend UK]

I still haven't seen night of champions. So far behind at moment.

[karamazov80]

Lucky you!

I read the summary at FigureFourWeekly, and it did sound pretty mediocre. The ending in particular sounded like something better suited to a Raw than a PPV. Would have liked to see Cesaro do the giant swing thing on Khali, though.