The Wrestling Thread

[hellpop]

You know I don't think I've actually ever watched a PPV live with an Elimination Chamber match? Every one that I've seen, that I can remember, was after the fact. Looks like this weekend will be no different, as we are moving (today!) and our internet won't be hooked up until Monday. I just read this piece on Grantland that called EC the best-looking PPV in years, and I can't say I agree. Only match I really want to see is the Wyatts/Shield throwdown. the main event will be fine, I'm sure, but Orton's gonna win.

Anyone getting the Network on Monday? They are offering a free trial week, so I might sign up. Monday's show will probably be pretty big. Rumors are that Hogan, Undertaker, and maybe even Sting will be there. There's also rumors that Vince is getting panicked about WM, and is looking to pull out all the stops. They are talking about bringing back Jericho and RVD... to wrestle each other. Why? Why not use them against young guys? Why not put them in a tag team and have them challenge the Usos?

[karamazov80]

Why is he getting panicked, you reckon? I think he should be worried about the championship match, assuming Orton/Batista is still in the plans. But if he wants to make sure everyone is kept happy--the kids, the smart marks, the guys in it for nostalgia, the guys who just want to be entertained with a fun show--give Cena the title at Chamber, and have Batista turn full heel. Then, pay Punk a couple million to come back, as a heel, and wrestle Daniel Bryan. Have Undertaker take on Sting. Then fill the rest of the show with the best talent they have--Bray Wyatt taking on Orton; Cesaro vs. Rollins; Reigns vs. Ambrose; Ziggler vs. Kingston; That would make for a PPV people would pay for.

[Freaqualizer]

I didn't see anyone mention this, but Big Daddy V real name Nelson Frazier passes away. He was only 43. Pretty sad. He was one of the more agile big men in the sport.

[karamazov80]

I remember when he won the King of the Ring. Was one of those weird situations where you got the impression Vince et al. just didn't have any better ideas. Of course, he was never really pushed. Biggest thing he was known for way back in the day was being responsible for Undertaker wearing a wacky white phantom of the opera type mask for awhile. RIP.

Anyone see the PPV last night? Extremely predictable, but the Wyatt/Shield and main event matches were quite good overall.

[hellpop]

Did not get to watch it, but I will have to download it to see that tag match. It sounds great.

As for Vince panicking, I think it's mostly because Batista's return has been a disaster, and Punk leaving is a huge hole. At this point, I think they've really booked themselves into a corner with Daniel Bryan; anything other then him holding up the title at the end of the night will be met with boos (well, unless Undertaker goes on last). The Batista thing is really amazing to me. I can't recall another return that was met with such hostility. At this point they need to cut their losses make him a heel. Have Orton and Batista be two sides of the same coin, HHH buddies that will both be acceptable "faces of the WWE". Then Bryan can be the outside insurgent, kind of like a third party candidate. He's wrestling's Ralph Nader!

[boyd]

I'd support that - a mini-reunion of Evolution, with Batista and Orton as HHH's flunkies again. Then have them feud with Bryan & the returning Punk over the future of the company. Better yet - have Reigns side with Bryan & Punk, while the rest of the Shield stick with HHH.

Man, there's dozens of ideas that would make this year's Wrestlemania look better than Orton vs. Batista. Including giving Batista his own sidekick in a raccoon costume.

Hell, make the New Age Outlaws HHH's Jerry Brisco and Pat Patterson, and have his transformation into Vince become complete.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Batista vs. Orton would definitely be a disaster. Batista's gotta go heel and Bryan's gotta get in the main event, maybe a 3-way match. I'd like to see Punk come back for WM, but who knows what the real story is with him right now.

[hellpop]

Thing about Batista is, EVERYBODY knows he's better as a heel. Why fight it? A heel Batista, combining his persona from the end of his first run with the Rock's old Hollywood heel gimmick, could be great. Certainly better then what he's doing now. I hear that his match last night was... not so good.

[karamazov80]

It wasn't great, but it's freakin Batista. He was never very good. At least it was short. I think giving Bryan a match against HHH at the end of Wrestlemania could at least allow the show to end on a high note, or barring that, one where the fans are booing because Vince wants them to. If Orton/Batista remains, it's gotta be the penultimate match or sooner.

[boyd]

I could see it as maybe third on the card (right after Cena/Wyatts, but before the Undertaker match and HHH/Bryan).

[MiniFiend UK]

Not watched all of EC yet only the main event to go.

Highlights for me are the 6 man tag. The crowd got it right even before it started it was awsome. everyone came off well and surprisngly not just the Wyatts winning was a shock but Rollins given that little bit of room to shine. He and Harper came out better for this match.

An the Del Rio, Batista match....wait!.....wait. Not because it was good but because it was terrible and the crowd showing their displeasure. The commentry team reacting to Lesner, Y2J and RVD chants during it but ignoring and talking through the CM Punk chants

best bit of auidence chant work is prob a new fave of the moment. Bootisa and I hope it sticks.

Edited February 24, 2014 by MiniFiend UK

[hellpop]

I was surprised, tonight on Raw, that they acknowledged the Bootista stuff. And they obviously tried to salvage the guy, by having him do his best John Cena impression: "they can say what they want, it's their right". Should have just had him turn, right there.

[karamazov80]

Was nice seeing Rollins allowed to really show off a bit. He's one of the more talented wrestlers I've ever seen, from an athletic POV. And tonight, Batista shows yet again how inept he is across the board. Just having a look and being a buddy with HHH were enough back in the day, but times have changed I reckon. Of course, this is all exacerbated by the fact that Batista got this shot, in the main event of Wrestlemania, after being away for 4 years, while CM Punk got passed over again, and the fans obviously don't forgive McMahon for that. So, this is what McMahon gets when he tries to shove Cena and company down our throats for way too long. The audience could only take so much, and now they seem pretty unwilling to allow the typical McMahon stuff to get over.

On another note, did anyone get the WWE Network today. When my wife gets back from the gym, I'm going to show her one of the most legendary PPVs in the history of wrestling--WCW Halloween Havoc 1995.

I was surprised, tonight on Raw, that they acknowledged the Bootista stuff. And they obviously tried to salvage the guy, by having him do his best John Cena impression: "they can say what they want, it's their right". Should have just had him turn, right there.

Yeah, maybe they're trying to do the slow burn and build up the heel thing slowly, but. . .I get the impression Vince is just hoping and praying that he'll get more sympathetic audiences, or that Batista can somehow change their mind, or something. But he's sadly mistaken if he thinks that.

[hellpop]

So, good news... Meltzer expects Punk to be at Raw in Chicago tomorrow,

[karamazov80]

I saw that. I hope it's true. Still watching the hell out of WWE Network. Watched Starrcade '89 earlier, and now Royal Rumble (1988). Some good, some bad, and some ugly from all this stuff. Lots of things I don't remember at all, like Steamboat/Rude starting Rumble, and then a LOOOOOOOOOONG drawn out segment with Dino Bravo trying to break a weight lifting record. Supposedly lots of new material will be added to the network tomorrow, and I hope that means some WCW TV stuff.

[hellpop]

I still haven't gotten around to ordering it yet. I probably should, since it will be good to have on in the background. Like you, I want some old WCW stuff. Honestly, even though I watched a lot of WWF as a kid, once I discovered WCW (I guess it was the NWA back then), I liked it a lot more. The matches were a lot better, and the whole thing was more believable. When I got back into wrestling in the '90s, it was because of WCW. Like a lot of people, I didn't really get into WWF until Austin rose to the top. Once Jericho jumped, it was all over for me and WCW.

Speculation with Punk is that he will either be inserted into the title match at 'Mania, or take Bryan's match with HHH, putting Bryan in the title match. You know what I'd do? Just put the title on Punk tomorrow. Make it clear that HHH doesn't care who wins Orton/Batista, because they are both "his guys". Have Vince there to book Punk/Orton "right here in Chicago!", because the fans have clearly rejected his choices. Punk wins, with an assist from Bryan. So Punk carries the title to 'Mania, which is now a triple threat because Orton wants his rematch. As my daughter would say, easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[karamazov80]

Well, disappointing, but a good Raw overall for what it was. The Wyatt/SHIELD match was great, SHIELD breakup teased, Real Americans breakup teased, Bryan match was pretty good, he got a lot of attention with his extended faceoff with HHH. I don't guess Punk's coming back. Oh, well.

More wacky original Royal Rumble happenings--Ultimate Warrior was in, and eliminated by a combination of One Man Gang and Dino Bravo. And the show ends with the only match it could logically end with--the Young Stallions (Paul Roma and Jim Powers) vs. the Islanders (Haku and Tama) in a crappy match no one cared about, that ended with a half crab submission. How insane.

[hellpop]

Yeah, bummer. I thought they handled it well, with Heyman's opening promo. That was really good. But MAN was that ending calling for a Punk save.

[Politician]

Guarantee this weeks RAW will have had some of the hightest numbers in years. That huge (15 minute?) overrun had Punk written all over it too since "I, Robot" was on next and no one was losing sleep over that not being aired.

Also, I'm sorta out of the loop but are we really going to WM with a heel/heel title match with two guys who get booed out of the building everytime they come out? Especially a milestone for the company like WM30?

[hellpop]

Seems that way. A lot of people think they might have Bryan wrestle Hunter for the right to be inserted in the Main Event. That makes the most sense at this point. But they might be basically sacrificing the WWE title match, which is crazy. I don't think it will be as bad as it looked a few weeks ago, because they aren't trying to get Batista over as a returning hero any more, but it will still be hated, I'm sure. I do think there are the seeds for an interesting storyline, with Hunter's guys (himself, Orton, Batista) vs the fans' guys (Bryan, maybe Ziggler and Cesaro). Frankly... it's a story that fits Punk a lot better. Sigh.

So I took the plunge and bought the network. My first thought is that the search function REALLY needs to be improved. They need to add an advance search function so that you can search for wrestlers, dates, and shows. Like, let's say you wanted to watch, for example, CM Punk on Raw in 2011. There should be an easier way to do it then what we have now.

Anyway, the first things I ended up watching: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (not sure from which show, but before the angle with AJ started); Shawn Michaels return match at SummerSlam vs HHH (one of my favorite matches ever); and, because I was still feeling a little blue after last night, CM Punk's entrance at MITB 2011. Good times.

Edited March 4, 2014 by hellpop

[Politician]

Oh shi-- have Bryan pull double duty like Bret at WM10 and come out on top. That's a huge push and would get me watching full-time again. It has to be something else in the main event because I just don't see those two drawing the numbers that they should if Bryan wasn't involved.

Also

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Holding off for now, but I feel like I'm on my way out of wrestling finally :/

Edited March 4, 2014 by Politician

[karamazov80]

I don't see that happening with Bryan, because then, they are going to lose buys from people that aren't sure if they will want to see the main event or not. One silver lining about Punk being gone though, is that Bryan is The Man in the company right now. Until they can maybe build up Reigns to take that spot, it's Bryan's to lose. Speaking of Bret Hart a minute ago, this could be an opportunity for Bryan to take that champion face spot for a similar reason that Hart did--for one reason or another, McMahon didn't have anyone better to give it to at the time.

[hellpop]

Okay, I'm going to be honest here... I think Punk is a better overall performer then Bryan. Yes, Bryan's a better technician in the ring (though not that much better, particularly at WWE style), but Punk is much, much better on the mike is is just a generally more compelling character. I like Bryan as much as anyone, but I don't think I ever tuned in to Raw wanting to see what he's going to do next. Punk, on the other hand, single-handedly saved my interest in wrestling. If I had to trade Bryan for Punk, I'd do it without hesitation.

[karamazov80]

I think Bryan has more range as a character. He's been a fantastic heel, in ROH and in WWE (pretty different kinds of heels in both places), then he has been a traditional, white bread good guy in ROH, a comedic good guy with Kane, and a crowd pleasing good guy that he is now. Punk's probably my 3rd favorite guy in the company, after Bryan and Cesaro, but he's got really 2 modes--his smart ass, anti-establishment good guy, and his asshole bad guy, that in 2012 was pretty much the same as it was in 2004 or so. He's really good at them, of course, and maybe he's better at those roles than Bryan is at any of his, but still. As far as in-ring style, I agree that they are about equal in WWE style, but nobody can do a match like Bryan when he has the time and is given the green light.

Edited March 5, 2014 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

I think you're selling short the amazing work Punk did after his heel turn when he cashed in his second MITB briefcase against Jeff Hardy. That was as nuanced a character as we've seen in many a year, and included what I think might be the greatest heel promo ever:

http://youtu.be/eeAVVzZuTqo

Edited March 5, 2014 by hellpop