The Wrestling Thread

[Politician]

So TNA's tv deal with Spike ends in the fall and there's still not a renewal, while re-runs of Cops airing before TNA are doing higher numbers apparently. Without a tv deal, advertisers all jump ship, there's hardly any revenue from the buildings and ppv's either.

I know we talk about TNA going out of business every year, but it's never been this bad. I can't imagine another network picking up TNA with how bad the numbers are. I think at that point, TNA would literally be on equal ground with ROH, having most older and expensive talent leave.

Spike will probably just keep TNA. They deserve each other.

[hellpop]

They definitely should just die and go away. I was never much of a fan, but they've always had good talent. It's a shame that most of those guys (especially the older ones) won't have any chance to go to WWE. Well, ROH is probably going to see an influx of talent.

[karamazov80]

I actually was a pretty big fan of TNA in the mid-2000s. Watching guys like Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, Chris Sabin, and Alex Shelley there was my gateway to ROH, and my renewed interest in wrestling in general.

Speaking of Danielson--Curry Man and the American Dragon, former NJPW Jr. Tag Team Champions!

http://youtu.be/YQftsSnwEQI

Edited March 21, 2014 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

Missed most of Raw tonight (the wife and I are binge watching Hannibal right now, and it's eating up all our time) but I did tune in about halfway through the Shield/Real Americans match. Man, are the Shield great. The current rumor is that Ambrose and Rollins will turn on Reigns at WM, but I really don't want to see that happen. I could live with it if it were just Ambrose, because Rollins has really stepped it up as a face these last few weeks. Have Ambrose betray the others and join the Authority. Keep Seth a face.

And then that ending... oh man. That is exactly why I never liked the Undertaker much. Sure, he's great and all, but at the end of the day, it's just an elaborate gimmick. That angle was really bad, and drawn out, and lost the crowd. You know what might have worked? If Brock had ignored all that nonsense and kicked the crap out of him. Show that smoke and mirrors don't work on the Beast Incarnate. But, as it was, big letdown.

[karamazov80]

I was at a concert and missed the whole thing, but all they wanted to talk about on the network aftershow as Undertaker, and briefly HHH. No mention of the SHIELD at all. Funny thing is, Lesnar and UT have already fought multiple times and Lesnar beat him, so it's weird seeing him act so scared all the time.

[Politician]

(the wife and I are binge watching Hannibal right now, and it's eating up all our time)

Pret-ty good there.

[karamazov80]

On a side note, Hannibal's pretty freaking great. One of the best network shows I've seen in a LONG time, possibly since West Wing. I saw the whole first season within a week or so. My wife won't watch it.

[hellpop]

I am constantly amazed that it's on a network. I can't imagine watching it with commercial breaks and dumb NBC promos. We have five episodes left in the first season, then it's on to S2 on Hulu.

[Politician]

I am constantly amazed that it's on a network. I can't imagine watching it with commercial breaks and dumb NBC promos. We have five episodes left in the first season, then it's on to S2 on Hulu.

S2 literally has parts I had to turn my head at. It really gets intense.

[karamazov80]

I'm waiting for Season 2 to come on Amazon Prime. Will probably be about a year from now.

On a wrestling note, I watched an old, early Raw tonight. It opened with Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigalow, in 1993 after the King of the Ring. Weird that most Raws in those days sucked all the way through, but some had pretty good matches like that one, which was actually the main event of KOTR, or Shawn vs. Marty Jannetty. Anyway, the reason it is noteworthy to me is Lawler. Nowadays he's pretty much a joke, but back in '93 he was extremely witty and funny. He was insulting Stu and Helen Hart in the audience during the match, and said some pretty damn funny things. I hadn't followed his Memphis days very closely apart from the Kaufman angle, but I can see how he would be able to wrap an audience around his finger.

[hellpop]

The thing with Lawler as an announcer is that he was never very good at it, honestly, but he had the whiny heel announcer schtick down pat. Now that he's basically just a guy it's clear that he has nothing to say or add. The whole team is pretty bad these days, but they are doing what Vince wants them to do. He, by the way, is probably my least favorite wrestling announcer ever. Even worse than Cole.

[karamazov80]

I wonder why Vince seems to love him so much, considering how mediocre he is. I guess some fans like him, in the same way some folks like Jay Leno's Tonight Show. And some viewers who were watching him as a kid might be nostalgic now, but. . .JR was and is SO freaking good, the most iconic play by play guy they've ever had probably, even more than Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse Ventura. But McMahon bullies him around pretty much his whole career, and unceremonially dumps him. I actually think Cole is OK. I don't really like him, but I think he's serviceable. JBL isn't great, but he's the best color commentator they have apart from Heyman, who is doing the manager thing now. But looking at the new guys apparently being groomed, it really does feel like McMahon wants an unoffensive, middle of the road type commentator team, and that does kind of suck. Colt Cabana could have been fantastic in that role, but of course he never got that shot.

Another guy I was surprised that didn't make a great color commentator is Punk. He did it a bit in ROH, and in WWE, and I always thought it was a bit underwhelming. I guess it really does take a special skill set. Even the great Bobby Heenan--possibly the greatest manager of all time, and fantastic on Prime Time Wrestling, wasn't all that great as a commentator.

Edited March 28, 2014 by karamazov80

[MiniFiend UK]

Just watched NXT and while at times I prefer it to WWE as the matchs have actual wrestling in them and the smaller arena can really get the fans engaged. The Mojo Rawley family/fans that sit dead center in the white tshirts with his name on it are killing the atmosphere for me.

When Mojo is in a match they join in the chant as other fans chant for him wave there arms, boo and cheer, but anyone else and they sit stock still and quiet it could be a good match and not a thing. Its distracting from the match and seems to be for the others fans around that area as they want it seems to be animated and engaged but there is a giant stinking turd monster sitting there and the other fans are thinking if I don't move it wont notice me.

I don't know if Full sail has allocated seating when you buy a ticket or if its buy a ticket and sit anywhere in your price range. If i noticed this and and worked on NXT I would maybe put forward 2 ideas.

1} Print a Mojo Rawley Tshirt fans seem to like him I would guess it would sell and the big white distraction would disapper off the screen into the rest of dark Tshirts.

2} If its not allocated seating move them. Stick em off camera under the main hard camera. Down the front they can slap hands with their boy as he comes in and leaves and all we get is the back of their heads.

[hellpop]

I don't think they actually sell NXT tickets, I think they give them away on campus. I remember hearing around the time of the Arrival special that they had "oversold" the building because they usually give away 2-4 times as many tickets as the place seats, and this was the first time more people showed up than capacity.

As for Vince and Jim Ross, I've long wondered if Vince resents Ross because he is widely considered the better announcer. The delight Vince seems to take in sticking it to Jim Ross is crazy, and that's the only explanation that makes any sense to me. BTW, Jim Ross is live on Wrestling Observer Radio right now.

[karamazov80]

Like, he's upset that Ross is a better announcer than Vince himself? Because Vince as an announcer was pretty terrible in hindsight

Ross is going to have a speaking performance at the House of Blues a day or two before Wrestlemania. Wish I could be there for it.

[hellpop]

Yes, exactly. Hell, forget hindsight, I thought he was terrible when I was ten.

[Politician]

Kevin Nash had a good story about Vince and Ross. Vince was telling Nash "Sometimes you just gotta eat shit, right Jim?" and Jim was sitting back behind them and he kinda mumbled "..Yeah"

There's tons of stories about Vince feeding lines to the commentary crew about Ross while he was working there and obviously since he's been gone. There's obviously something there, it's really sad.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Was Christian's concussion legit? Seems that way. Does that mean he's done now?

[hellpop]

Yeah, I think it's legit. I haven't heard if he's done or not, but frankly I don't see why he'd stay. He has nothing left to prove and he'll never get another big push. Plus, he's being buried by the announce team, and rather unfairly I think. He's had a great career, but it's probably time to move on.

[hellpop]

Excellent interview with the great Paul Heyman here:

http://thisisinfamous.com/interview-paul-heyman/

[karamazov80]

I saw the Wrestlemania press conference yesterday. Never watched an entire one before. It was kind of weird, but the guys involved made the best of it for the most part. I thought Batista was one of the best things about it, shockingly.

[hellpop]

Yes, I've heard that Batista was really entertaining on that. Big Dave definitely has his moments.

So, 'Mania is this weekend, which means it's prediction time! Honestly, I can't say my excitement level is all that high this year, since there isn't one match I expect to really stand out, for reasons I shall explain.

-The Usos vs the Matadors vs Rybaxel vs the Real Americans. The Usos should win. It's a shame that there's no heat for this match, and that they chose the teams that they chose. Giving the heel teams title shots because they attempted to take out the Shield is a poor way to build a tag team title match. And adding the Matadors because... I don't even know why they added the Matadors. Let them be in the Battle Royal and let the Rhodes Bros be in this match. Anyway, I think Cesaro eats the pin because of a screwup with Swagger, leading to a face turn for Cesaro either here or on Raw. Dave Meltzer thought it would be more impactful on Raw, and he's probably right.

-The Battle Royal. I dunno, Sheamus? I know a lot of people are into this, but it doesn't do much for me. It's just a way to get everyone on the show. I could see them doing the thing where Rusev is a surprise entrant and wins, eliminating the Big Show and getting him a big kickoff. What I'd really like to see is Ziggler getting the win, but that's not going to happen. One dark horse, out of nowhere winner: Sting. He enters, wins the Battle Royal, and gets an easy 'Mania moment.

-The Divas Match. Oh God, this match. I really don't care. How could you? Are any of these women even slightly more over than any other. AJ's my favorite, and she's not going to win. And, really, at this point I'd just as soon see them take the title off her, considering that I think she's been either pinned or submitted by everyone else in this match. Lance Storm stole my surprise pick: Summer Rae. Notice how they gave her new music? I could see her getting the win and feuding with the other Total Divas, since she's now the show bitch. What I'd really like to see: surprise entrant Sara Del Ray wins, legitimizes the Women's division over the next year, faces Ronda Rousey at WM 31.

-Shield vs Kane and the Outlaws. Hopefully, the plan to break up the Shield is off, and they have a lengthy babyface run ahead. At the very least, I hope they only turn Ambrose. Shield wins, stays together is what I think will happen.

-John Cena vs Bray Wyatt. I've read a lot of people picking this as the sleeper best match on the show, and I also think that could happen. Or it could suck. I really don't know what to expect. But, while I think Bray Wyatt should win, one thing I have learned is to never expect John Cena to loose. Ever.

-Brock Lesnar vs the Undertaker. The Streak should remain in tact another year. I am surprised that so many people are down on this match, as it is one I really want to see. I do agree that the build has been less then stellar, though it's had its (Paul Heyman fueled) moments. Personally, I think they blew the build to this match all the way back when they had Brock loose to Cena his first match back. Undefeated Lesnar gunning for the Streak would have been a great story; why they couldn't see that and gave Cena the cheap win, I'll never know (and that's why I am picking Cena above, BTW).

-Daniel Bryan vs HHH. This has had the best build, no doubt. However, the fact that it's only a stepping stone match is a real problem. The build feels epic, but the match feels tiny. The best scenario I've heard is Bryan winning cleanly, leading to HHH giving him a vicious post-match beating, seriously raising doubt on his ability to make it to...

-the title match. Well, they have managed to save what was looking like a disaster, only in doing so they have totally marginalized Batista and Randy Orton. Following the above scenario, Batista and Orton start off alone, wrestling in front of a hostile crowd. After 10-15 minutes or so, when the crowd has started to cool down at last, Daniel Bryan's music hits! The place goes nuts! He comes out and joins the match! Hunter is freaking out at ringside! Finally, Daniel Bryan pins Randy Orton after the running knee! Cue 80,000 Yes chants!

There are still rumors that Punk might appear. Frankly, the only thing I could see him doing that makes any sense is to get involved in the main event, maybe running in from the crowd to take out HHH and protect Bryan. I do feel that this show has a big Punk-sized hole in it, but frankly at this point I hope he stays home.

Anyone else?

[karamazov80]

I have no idea re: the tag titles and divas, because I don't think anyone at WWE cares enough for there to be a real logical choice.

Are all the tag participants excluded from the battle royale? If not, I would pick Cesaro just because I want it to happen. . .and, he's also probably more over than anyone else I've seen announced. I guess my second favorite potential choice would be Big Show. Not that I'm a huge Big Show fan, but it is the Andre memorial match, and Big Show, despite all he's done for the company, is going to be seen historically as a gimmick. Any little things like this or a short Smackdown title reign seem like justified rewards.

I am kind of expecting Ambrose and Rollins to turn on Reigns, and for the SHIELD to lose because of that. I think Bray will lose to Cena, but I hope not. Undertaker will obviously win. Bryan will beat HHH, and then. . .I'm still not 100% sure what happens in the main event. Gut and common sense says Bryan, but I can see almost anything happening barring an Orton win. If Punk is there, I hope he pops up, acts like he is assisting Bryan, but then beats the ever loving shit out of him, and they set up a lengthy feud between those two guys. Punk is way better as a heel than a face.

[hellpop]

Maybe Punk helps Bryan win, then turns on him? Explaining that he helped him win the title because he wants to be the one to take it from him? That could work. Reunite him with Heyman while you're at it.

I think the tag title guys are out of the Battle Royal, but who knows. I'd obviously be fine with Cesaro winning.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

I predict that every match is decided by Sin Cara interference. If that doesn't happen:

Usos retain the tag belts. They just got them and I can't see them dropping the belts this soon. Real Americans probably end up fighting and breaking up.

Divas Match: what are the rules of this thing? Does the first pin win or is it elimination? I've actually been pretty impressed with the Divas division since I started watching wrestling again. It leaps and bounds better than it used to be and I find most of the matches entertaining. I do prefer the NXT roster to the WWE. I'll be pushing for Emma, but I predict that AJ will retain by somehow screwing over Tamina, leading to a feud.

Battle Royal: I'm picking Alexander Rusev, but I really don't know. I am looking forward to this match even though it doesn't seem like the stakes are very high and its really just a reason to get everyone on the WM card.

The Shield handle Kane and the Outlaws and frolick happily into faceville. I'm not happy about this. I like the Shield, but I don't want them to be good guys. Hoping that 2 of the 3 turn and remain heels (most likely Ambrose and Rollins).

I think that Bray Wyatt beats Cena, which begins a Cena heel turn somehow. There's all this talk about Wyatt wanting to destroy Cena's legacy. How do you do that better than making him a bad guy? I'm hoping this happens, but would not be surprised to see Super Cena bring down the evil Wyatt family.

Brock vs. Undertaker: I have the least interest in this match. Undertaker streak remains untarnished. At this point, I can't see them giving him a loss. How many more years can this ridiculousness go on?

Bryan vs. HHH: Hunter gets the win by cheating and moves on to the title match. Later, Vince McMahon or maybe Hulk Hogan announce that due to the unfairness of HHH's win, both competitors will be part of the main event.

Title Match: I think Bryan is victorious in a sea of YES chants, but it almost seems too obvious. So instead I'm going to predict that Bryan gets screwed somehow, Batista wins the belt and carries it through the release of Guardians of the Galaxy.