Iron Man 3

[UK Collector]

Well the easy out for me would have been to have the rings themselves as salvaged butchered Chitauri tech they could then explain away anything from lasers, shields, teleports etc, basicly anything they wanted to toss in.

Agree completely.

[youbastards]

Zach and Groundhog, now that it has been released, how did the final version compare to the stuff you guys read?

[MisterPL]

I saw it yesterday and all day I couldn't help thinking about how well-received such a twist would have been in The Dark Knight.

Imagine Batman finally tracking down the Joker only to find out he's just Jack Napier, an actor hired by Maroni to terrorize Gotham by doing a bad Tom Waits impression in clown make-up.

But at the end of the day Iron Man 3 was definitely one of the best toy commercials I've ever seen.

Now let's replace Downey with Charlie Sheen and see what happens.

[stack32]

I think it's pretty obvious why you would use that kind of twist in one instance and not the other. One of them is the greatest villain in comics, the other... is definitely not.

[groundhog7s]

Zach and Groundhog, now that it has been released, how did the final version compare to the stuff you guys read?

Well, I've learned in the past that junior novels are far less violent and intense than the real thing, but with the exception of some of the violence and innuendos being missing it was pretty much what I was expecting. The only major things missing from the book was interactions with Trevor and some of the details of the final battle and what happens with Pepper. I'm guessing the latter was due to the violence level and kids.

Going into this movie knowing what would be some of the letdowns for fans allowed me to watch it with no expectations and I loved the movie. Cinematically there were some issues I had with it, but overall I felt it was a great movie, although I'm still wondering why the credits turned into a 70's cop movie. And yes, I too watched it wondering which characters needed Minimates still from it.

[MisterPL]

I think it's pretty obvious why you would use that kind of twist in one instance and not the other. One of them is the greatest villain in comics, the other... is definitely not.

And Iron Man is no Batman but it's not about comparing the heroes or villains to their respective counterparts, it's about comparing their relationships to their respective foes. Mandarin is Tony Stark's Joker, his Lex Luthor, his Moriarty. Imagine pulling off the same twist with any hero's biggest adversary and you can understand why Iron Man fans aren't very happy with how things turned out.

[stack32]

So anyone who likes the movie isn't an Iron Man fan?

I get the reaction, though I'm not sure how many people really think of Mandarin as being Iron Man's Moriarty. I think the big issue here is that there are comic fans who have this vision of a great villain in the movie that would work for them but not the rest of the public that will push the movie to a billion dollars.

[undeadpool]

Im a huge Ironman fan and I loved this movie, Ive been reading Ironman comics for years, have watched all the cartoon shows and played the video games. I know who Mandarin is supposed to be and what I wanted him to be and none of that matters to me because Kingsley's performance was way too good not to enjoy

also Mandarin is not Tony Starks Joker in any way, shape or form, hes more of a Rha's Al Ghul type villain, he always has giant organizations and his primary focus is to conquer/stay alive where Joker simply wants chaos to reign.

Im not sure how many spoiler tags I should use now that the film is out but

I loved that Killian was a human Fin Fang Foom, I may have already said this but it needs saying again, that was brilliant

also I loved James Badge Dale's as Savin, he was just so fun to watch.

Ive seen this film 3 times in theaters and I think that each time I judged the film differently.

1st time I was bothered by the new directing, the way it cut to different scenes, and the new characters felt a little rushed

2nd time most of those issues seemed to leave my mind and i enjoyed it thoroughly except Maya Hansen

3rd time absolutely floored, love it, can claim it was the best one yet, had so much fun, still except for Hansen

[Twisted Two-Face]

Regarding the credits, i believe i read Downey had the idea for them himself. Loved the pulpy feel, especially saying "Iron Man Three" instead of "3." They were fun to sit through.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Twisted Two-Face

[MisterPL]

So anyone who likes the movie isn't an Iron Man fan?

I get the reaction, though I'm not sure how many people really think of Mandarin as being Iron Man's Moriarty. I think the big issue here is that there are comic fans who have this vision of a great villain in the movie that would work for them but not the rest of the public that will push the movie to a billion dollars.

I don't know of anyone who's ONLY a fan of the films who didn't enjoy this movie. Conversely the only negative reactions I'm reading are coming from self-desribed "Iron Man fans" (presumably of the comics) who know Mandarin from the source material and were disappointed with his treatment in the film, especially coming from Marvel Studios.

Like I said, if you were to ask an Iron Man fan 10 years ago (before the films) who Tony Stark's arch enemy was, most would reply "Mandarin" just like most would point to Joker and Lex Luthor and Moriarty as the arch enemies of Batman, Superman, and Sherlock Holmes respectively.

[MisterPL]

also Mandarin is not Tony Starks Joker in any way, shape or form, hes more of a Rha's Al Ghul type villain, he always has giant organizations and his primary focus is to conquer/stay alive where Joker simply wants chaos to reign.

I'm not saying Mandarin is like the Joker in character, I'm saying that Mandarin is largely considered to be Iron Man greatest foe just like Joker is considered to be Batman's greatest foe. Had Chris Nolan done with Joker what Shane Black did with Mandarin, I can only imagine the nerd rage.

For what it's worth, I'm not terribly invested in Iron Man. He's been one of my favorite Marvel characters for years but I've never read any of his titles consistently. (I was more of a DC fan until The Ultimates came along.)

But even as a casual fan of the comic book character I recognize the importance of Mandarin on Iron Man lore and was disappointed with Black's gambit and even more surprised that Marvel Studios allowed it. I know liberties have been taken with other characters but Mandarin is THE Iron Man villain.

[Nessex]

Im not sure how many spoiler tags I should use now that the film is out but

I loved that Killian was a human Fin Fang Foom, I may have already said this but it needs saying again, that was brilliant

Holy Sh!t....

[groundhog7s]

But even as a casual fan of the comic book character I recognize the importance of Mandarin on Iron Man lore and was disappointed with Black's gambit and even more surprised that Marvel Studios allowed it. I know liberties have been taken with other characters but Mandarin is THE Iron Man villain.

It should be no surprise that Disney didn't want to alienate the Chinese market (where IM3 has already taken in over $20 million) or that they would play off the aspect that people want to see heroes fight terrorists. Had the story been the same only with the main villain being called something else I don't think anybody would have had much of a problem with it. It was a bit like Deadpool in the Wolverine movie. If the ending had been with a genericly named character it wouldn't have been received as negatively by fans as it was. But both movies prove that Marvel doesn't follow comic continuity at all and any fan who goes to see their movies should know that by now and not expect anything different.

[Twisted Two-Face]

I saw fans expecting Beekeeper suits, Coldblood AND Firepower, AND MODOK, just because "AIM" was in it. And they were serious. Granted, yellow hazmats may have been possible to shoehorn, but MODOK?

I really think this is people pissed by Trevor, and letting that affect their opinion of the film as a whole. Fanbase is really divided.

[groundhog7s]

The fanbase isn't what gave this film the second highest opening weekend (2nd only to The Avengers). Until the fanbase can do that, expect these kinds of liberties to be taken by Marvel/Disney.

[stack32]

I really think this is people pissed by Trevor, and letting that affect their opinion of the film as a whole. Fanbase is really divided.

I've found it fascinating how so many of the fans who don't like it feel the need to call it the worst movie ever. No debating plot choices or character arcs, it just sucks. I guess I expected a higher level of discussion (in general, not referring to here) from fandom. In retrospect I suppose that was silly.

[Twisted Two-Face]

Even the people that DO try to debate plotlines. Like

"Anton didn't even have a motivation or plot!! Worst villain ever!" Okay, first of all his name is Aldrich. Obviously if you can't even pay attention to remember the villain's name you don't even deserve to comment. But yes he did. He was established as handicapped and the underdog his whole life. He wanted to change that. He tries to get his idol to help him, his idol turns him down, that pushes him to a choice between suicide or be better than his idol. Flashforward to modern time, we see he succeeded at making himself awesome and new, physically, stylistically, and scientifically through AIM. Why does he go after Stark then? Because Maya Hansen says Stark fixed the accidental explosion issue with Extremis years ago and can do it again. That's it. It's not a revenge plot, it barely has anything to do with Stark. It's ridiculous how people don't understand a single aspect of this movie.

Hell, i see stupid comments like "Why Roxxon? Wasn't even elaborated?" or "Why does Killian breathe fire?? STUPID!" Killian openly says everything with Roxxon is just a ruse that he is going to feed to the public through Trevor, as a reason to kill the President. That's it; it's just as fake as Mandarin. And Killian was on Extremis and bonded with it the longest. So naturally he'll be able to handle it more. AND Mallen in the Extremis comic itself could breathe fire. So it's close to 100% accurate.

Sorry, just a rant. It's irritating how people complain without research, or even attempting to care, all the while boasting themselves as entitled "fanboys."

[Nessex]

I generally like going to the cinema to be entertained and surprised. I am rarely surprised. While this may not have been a 10/10 film, It entertained me... and i certainly was surprised.

As i said earlier, i was a bit shocked when i went to the cinema because i had read up a bit on who the COMIC characters were and was expecting something along those lines.

But when i left the cinema and thought about it, the film follows the themes & ideas set up in the previous two films. (movie) Iron Man was born of terrorism. This film was always going to be about terrorism. Not magic.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Nessex

[TBT!]

Just saw it, Liked it ... will post more later, need to cook dinner!

T.

[Punisher]

What I want to know is.... Why do people care that much about what other people thought of the movie?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Punisher

[Lokash]

Im not sure how many spoiler tags I should use now that the film is out but

I loved that Killian was a human Fin Fang Foom, I may have already said this but it needs saying again, that was brilliant

Holy Sh!t....

This^ !!!

The dragon tattoos and Fire breathing make sense now! And could Killians brain projection in Peppers office been a nod to MODOK?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Lokash

[groundhog7s]

http://www.newsarama.com/17716-black-feige-on-iron-man-3-s-major-twist-spoilers.html

If you want to know what they were thinking when they decided to do what they did to the main villain, there you go.

Also, I forgot one thing that was missing in the movie that was in the novel. When Mandarin is talking about fortune cookies, when he smashes one open he read the fortune inside. It read something like, 'Help me, I'm trapped in a fortune cookie factory'. And then when he was done talking about America and it's influence on the world he closed his broadcast with 'Beware the Cookie Monster.' I missed those parts not being in the movie.

Edited May 6, 2013 by groundhog7s

[UK Collector]

Also, I forgot one thing that was missing in the movie that was in the novel. When Mandarin is talking about fortune cookies, when he smashes one open he read the fortune inside. It read something like, 'Help me, I'm trapped in a fortune cookie factory'. And then when he was done talking about America and it's influence on the world he closed his broadcast with 'Beware the Cookie Monster.' I missed those parts not being in the movie.

Seriously? Ha that's pretty funny.

[MisterPL]

It should be no surprise that Disney didn't want to alienate the Chinese market (where IM3 has already taken in over $20 million) or that they would play off the aspect that people want to see heroes fight terrorists. Had the story been the same only with the main villain being called something else I don't think anybody would have had much of a problem with it. It was a bit like Deadpool in the Wolverine movie. If the ending had been with a genericly named character it wouldn't have been received as negatively by fans as it was. But both movies prove that Marvel doesn't follow comic continuity at all and any fan who goes to see their movies should know that by now and not expect anything different.

I'm not at all surprised liberties were taken. I'm surprised they came so close to successfully adapting the character and then cut him off at the knees. There seemed to be a lot of wasted potential here, particularly in the wake of films like Thor and The Avengers that introduced gods and aliens.

As for China, I know there are politically correct reasons for not portraying Mandarin exactly as he's appeared in comics and there are economic reasons for pandering to a country that's invested in producing your films. That said, I'm fine with Mandarin not being Chinese and Disney's apparently already done a bang-up job of insulting Chinese movie-goers thanks to their exclusive "special edition" with ridiculous added content.

All I'm saying is that my enjoyment of the movie was diminished by a creative decision that – while I understand it – fills me with doubts about Marvel's Phase 2.

[stack32]

I think this quote from Shane Black in the article Groundhog posted pretty much sums up why they felt they could make a change to Mandarin:

Also, The Mandarin, as Kevin has pointed out — it's not like he's a
classic villain in the sense you go, "Oh my god, remember that great
Mandarin story?" You go, "Well, no, not really, do you?" "No, I guess we
don't."