Star Trek - Reincarnated from the Genesis Planet!

[MisterPL]

Zach, please tell me DST is somehow taking advantage of this partnership between CBS and WB. I'm not sure I'd be up for characters from The Big Bang Theory dressed in Trek uniforms but I'd love to see Legacy Minimates adorning Sheldon's computer desk. I'd send them some samples if I were you. Trek's ongoing presence on one of TV's top comedies can't hurt, right?

[Turtle]

I want this line to do extremely well. I love Trek. But... the multi-era approach isn't new. Waves 4 and 5 tried it as well. Waves 3,4, and 5 are all pretty available on eBay. The TOS bridge crew (waves 1&2), not so much. You could argue it's because TOS sells better, but something tells me it's that fans want a full crew. I like what we're getting, and I hope it does well, but part of me still feels like offering a full crew would bolster interest.

[MisterPL]

Waves 4 and 5 offered one set each that wasn't TOS-centric. Every series had at least one Kirk in it and, in my opinion, it eroded collector confidence that we'd ever get anything more than TOS and maybe one non-TOS set. It was too little, too late. The second series probably should have been exclusively TNG. I remember hearing the argument that retailers really preferred TOS, though.

Since we're now getting specialty and TRU support with no crossovers, offering a show-themed full crew and some guest stars would be feasible but I'd be worried that DST would be putting future series at risk. Ideally successful TOS, TNG and DS9 series would allow them to offer arguably less popular series like VOY and ENT.

There's just SO much material to draw from. TOS was cancelled twice and it still resonates in pop culture almost 47 years later. TNG, DS9, and VOY each lasted seven seasons and ENT lasted four. Tack on TAS and the movies and you've got plenty of ways to anchor sets and still offer other more obscure characters.

And given the popularity of the recent films (STID is projecting a possible $100 million weekend in North America), it seems like a sure thing... except for all the reasons I've mentioned in previous posts.

I'm still optimistic but I understand DST's hesitance.

[Onyx_6]

I think DST is being understandably cautious.

In the past, they've banked almost exclusively on TOS-era Trek, especially with Minimates. Now that they're offering a mix of eras, they're waiting for sell-through before green-lighting a second series with either a similar mix or one that skews toward those 2-packs that sell best. Personally I hope they all sell well.

Here's my concern:

Zach (and Chuck IIRC) have both stated that work hasn't even been started on wave 2. No designs, no planning. That is what bothers me personally. If they had wave 2 at least planned & sketched up then I'd feel more confident about their faith in the line. *When* wave 1 is successful (not If ), then what's the lead time going to be on getting wave 2 out? Honestly, I think having yearly releases like Universal Monsters did will not be healthy for this line!

Snip 8<

Wave 1 is incredibly strong, and it's very difficult to imagine it not doing well. So it's disheartening to hear there's been *no* movement on wave 2 at all!

This is exactly what DST did with Battle Beasts. They have the license. They have time. They are cautious about the first wave. It will be a huge success. They will offer more waves and exclusives. I have confidence.

I think it would be cool to have wave 2 (plus) be a similar format to wave 1: except give us First Mates/Second in Command crew with different aliens. Then 3 could be engineers; 4, medical officers, etc.

Maybe.

EDIT: stupid auto-correct

Edited May 16, 2013 by Onyx_6

[Captain Paco]

Okay I have done some rethinking of what I would desire in the future Legacy Waves of Trek Minimates (alll will be listed in the formate of TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, ENT, Movies)

Wave 2: Reworked Spock/a TOS Klingon, Riker/a TNG Romulan, Kira/a Vorta, Chakotay/a member of the Dream Species, T'Pol/Suliban, No movie option at this time.

Wave 3: Reworked McCoy/a TOS Romulan, Data/Gowron, Jadzia Dax/Martok, Tuvok/a Vidiian, Tucker/Soval, No movie option at this time.

Wave 4: Reworked Scotty/M-113 Salt Vampire, LaForge/a Pakled, Worf (with extra TNG uniform)/Founder, Torres/a Swarm Alien, Phlox/Daniels, No movie option at this time.

Wave 5: Reworked Uhura/Excalbian, Dr. Crusher/Mot the Bolian Barber, Dr. Bashir/a Breen, Paris/a Kazon, Sato/Orion (male), No movie option at this time.

Wave 6: could be all movie mates from any Trek movie: ST4 Spock/ST6 Valeris, STG Guinan/STFC Picard in civilian attire, STFC Data (after exposure to the Borg)/LT Hawk in space suit (with extra Borg Face), STInsurrection Anji/Ru'Afo, STN B4/Female Romulan Commander

Then we will have to play it by ear.

I realized I said Neelix when I really was thinking Phlox in my previous statement.

I would like to see the four guys from the Big Bang Theory made in Minimate form as well but have them dressed as they were in the recent episode where Sheldon was Data, Leonard was Picard, Howard was a borg and Raj was Worf?

[MisterPL]

I would like to see the four guys from the Big Bang Theory made in Minimate form as well but have them dressed as they were in the recent episode where Sheldon was Data, Leonard was Picard, Howard was a borg and Raj was Worf?

Oh boy.

[Turtle]

Waves 4 and 5 offered one set each that wasn't TOS-centric.

I guess I view those waves differently- I saw them as 1 TOS, 1 Movie, and 1 new series. And then the variant. But I think ultimately we're on the same page.

[edited for brevity]

[edited for brevity]

This is exactly what DST did with Battle Beasts. They have the license. They have time. They are cautious about the first wave. It will be a huge success. They will offer more waves and exclusives. I have confidence.

I think it would be cool to have wave 2 (plus) be a similar format to wave 1: except give us First Mates/Second in Command crew with different aliens. Then 3 could be engineers; 4, medical officers, etc.

Maybe.

EDIT: stupid auto-correct

That sounds like an idea I can get behind.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Turtle

[Matty-lad]

Hey all,

Well I got bored at work today and planned out my ideal line of figures following the line set by wave 1. I managed to get to wave 12 without any bother. Will see if I can post it at some point (as long as it's not too long.)

Take care,

Matty-lad

[johnboy8]

I think DST is being understandably cautious.

In the past, they've banked almost exclusively on TOS-era Trek, especially with Minimates. Now that they're offering a mix of eras, they're waiting for sell-through before green-lighting a second series with either a similar mix or one that skews toward those 2-packs that sell best. Personally I hope they all sell well.

They've got the license for more than a year or two, I'm sure. There's no hurry (unless you're only collecting Trek 'mates). I'm as eager as any fan to fill my collection with more of these little guys but I also want them to be done right. Hopefully this mix of characters will be a huge hit and DST can move forward with confidence.

And as someone who collects other lines (Marvel, Walking Dead, Disney, Thundercats and hopefully Tomb Raider, Invincible, Lost in Space and Aliens), I'm okay with Trek taking its time while other, more finite offerings fill the void.

I absolutley agree with you, I want these done right. But at the same I would have thought they would have had series 2 even 3 at least planned out, Especially since this is movie year to use the hype and excitment to promote the line.

[johnboy8]

Here's my concern:

Zach (and Chuck IIRC) have both stated that work hasn't even been started on wave 2. No designs, no planning. That is what bothers me personally. If they had wave 2 at least planned & sketched up then I'd feel more confident about their faith in the line. *When* wave 1 is successful (not If ), then what's the lead time going to be on getting wave 2 out? Honestly, I think having yearly releases like Universal Monsters did will not be healthy for this line!

As I've said many times, we just had the 25th anniversary of STTNG, and the Blu Rays will be completed by the end of next year. I know we're getting Trek mates due to the new movie, but there's a lot of marketing "heat" coming from the STTNG market. And very likely, we'll get the rest of the shows on Blu Ray as well, so Trek will be on a lot of buyer's minds for the next few years.

Wave 1 is incredibly strong, and it's very difficult to imagine it not doing well. So it's disheartening to hear there's been *no* movement on wave 2 at all!

I'm right there with you on this point. I understand using the Captains as a draw to the line. But with series 2 they need to diversify the character selection. I've mention this before and while it's just my 2 cents I strongly feel they really should start including additonal heads/additional parts so other characters can be made up. (Data to Lore, Jadiza to Ezri, Geordi to Barclay, etc) Since it apprears they are going to really spread out the time between release as well as the sheer volume of characters between 5 series & 10 movies each release needs to count.

[MisterPL]

I absolutley agree with you, I want these done right. But at the same I would have thought they would have had series 2 even 3 at least planned out, Especially since this is movie year to use the hype and excitment to promote the line.

They might still be able to do that. They missed the window for the movie release a bit but they might be able to push something out during the home video release, again depending on how these sell through. I find it hard to believe they haven't given it any thought.

Maybe "planning" means 100% set-in-stone rather than, "Oh, we've got some options ready but no commitments." I know how long licensor approvals can take so I'm hoping they've at least got so designs in mind they can submit for a quick turnaround.

I'd hate to see this first series fly off the shelves so fast that DST gets caught short-handed during the holiday season, but I guess that's a better problem to have than to have these things collecting dust for four years on clearance. (Yeah, Playmates. I'm looking at you.)

[stack32]

I hope these are really successful, but it's not that hard to imagine they might not be. I think DST is well aware of how difficult it can be to sell Trek product, even if there is a movie out with the name on it. I don't blame them at all for taking a wait-and-see approach, especially if it helps get us more characters in the long run.

[tones]

I would like to see the four guys from the Big Bang Theory made in Minimate form as well but have them dressed as they were in the recent episode where Sheldon was Data, Leonard was Picard, Howard was a borg and Raj was Worf?

THIS would be a great idea for a ComicCon exclusive! as long as it was available online as well

[youbastards]

Wow, here's an interesting read. JJ Abrams wanted CBS to stop making merch for the original Star Trek....marked it as spoiler due to the length.

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/battle-over-star-trek-rights-killed-j-j-024108752.html

A struggle over the U.S.S. Enterprise's past and future helped sour J.J. Abrams on the "Star Trek" franchise and may have contributed to his decision to take on the "Star Wars" universe.

Competing ambitions between Paramount, CBS and Abrams' production company Bad Robot over merchandising surrounding the first film in the rebooted "Star Trek" franchise led the director to curtail plans to turn the series into a multi-platform experience that spanned television, digital entertainment and comic books, according to an individual with knowledge of the dispute.

"J.J. just threw up his hands," the individual told TheWrap. "The message was, 'Why set up all this when we'll just be competing against ourselves?' The studio wanted to please Bad Robot, but it was allowing CBS to say yay or nay when it came to what was happening with the 'Star Trek' products."

"Star Trek Into Darkness" arrives in U.S. multiplexes Thursday with tie-ins ranging from Bing to Hasbro. It is expected to gross more than $100 million at the domestic box office over the extended weekend.

Yet this marketing assault pales compared to the one that Abrams (above) and Bad Robot once envisioned for "Star Trek" and now plan to construct around the new "Star Wars" films.

A major stumbling block: "Star Trek's" licensing and merchandising rights are spread over two media conglomerates with competing goals. The rights to the original television series from the 1960s remained with CBS after it split off from Paramount's corporate parent Viacom in 2006, while the studio retained the rights to the film series. CBS also held onto the ability to create future "Star Trek" TV shows.

Paramount must license the "Star Trek" characters from CBS Consumer Products for film merchandising.

Much to the dismay of Bad Robot, CBS' merchandising arm continued to create memorabilia and products based on the cast of the original 1960s series and market them to Trekkies. The production company did market research and found that there was brand confusion between Abrams' rebooted Enterprise crew and the one starring William Shatner and DeForest Kelley.

TheWrap has learned that Bad Robot asked CBS to stop making products featuring the original cast, but talks broke down over money. The network was making roughly $20 million a year on that merchandise and had no incentive to play nice with its former corporate brother, the individual said. In response, the company scaled back its ambitions to have "Star Trek's" storylines play out with television shows, spin-off films and online components, something Abrams had been eager to accomplish.

Paramount declined to comment for this article and a spokesperson for Bad Robot did not respond to a request to comment.

"As the merchandising rights holder for Star Trek, CBS Consumer Products has ongoing relationships with all our partners, including Paramount," a spokesman for CBS Consumer Products said in a statement. "We have worked closely with them for the last five years to create merchandise to enhance the movies and satisfy fans. We are all looking forward to a successful opening of 'Into Darkness.'"

Despite the initial bumpy ride, it appears that Paramount, Bad Robot and CBS Consumer Products worked more harmoniously on "Star Trek Into Darkness." The parties collaborated on a Star Trek video game (left) that will feature the voices of the film's stars Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto; a graphic novel prequel to the film that was overseen by screenwriter Roberto Orci; and a novelization from Simon & Schuster (below).

Still, Jeff Gomez, CEO of the transmedia consulting firm Starlight Runner Entertainment, says there could have been so many more lucrative tie-ins. He contends that the rebooted franchise has enormous potential outside the multiplex.

"Right now the 'Star Trek' movies are movies," Gomez said. "There is no apparent ongoing transmedia strategy behind them, just a handful of licensing opportunities around the release of 'Into Darkness.'

"Why would that be attractive to an artist who sees beyond the boundaries of the silver screen to envision a true multi-platform narrative all based on a global franchise?"

Abrams' ambitions to create a multi-platform film franchise will find a more natural home at Disney, analysts and industry experts tell TheWrap. As successful as "Star Trek" has been, few franchises match the profitability and cultural prominence of George Lucas' space opera, which would be difficult for any director to pass up.

"Disney has always been oriented to multi-platform revenue stream situations," Seth Willenson, a film library valuations expert, told TheWrap.

Moreover, Willenson notes that Abrams, who has a deal that is believed to include creative and profit participation in "Star Wars" inspired merchandise and spin-offs, will have more control in shaping the legacy of the Skywalker clan than he would have had with developing side projects for the "Star Trek" crew. Unlike with "Star Trek," with its rights split between Paramount and CBS, Disney owns the rights to "Star Wars" outright thanks to its $4 billion purchase of Lucasfilm last year.

"The derivative rights situation on 'Star Trek' is complicated because you're dealing with cross-company cultures, so it makes it harder to implement a grand plan," Willenson said.

As for Disney's grand "Star Wars" plan, it's sounding an awful lot like the one Abrams once envisioned for "Star Trek." There will be television properties, theme park rides and spin-off films all centered around the new trilogy that Abrams will oversee.

It's a page borrowed from Disney's exploitation of the Marvel comic books and if it works out, it should make Abrams very rich indeed.

Edited May 17, 2013 by youbastards

[MisterPL]

I still shake my head at the decision to split the TV and Film entities at Viacom. Abrams' Star Trek would have been a fine television pilot for a new series and TV is where Trek belongs, in my opinion.

That said, the brilliance of Abrams' plan – to reboot the franchise without erasing any of its past – wouldn't have carried over to merchandising. I can understand only pushing movie product in a movie year but when you take four years between films, you've got to fill the gaps with something more. It's hard to ignore almost half a century worth of popular, viable source material especially when it's bringing in $20 million a year without a $150 million film to drive it.

[MisterPL]

Come to think of it, if JJ had his way, at best we'd have gotten the Enterprise that Hasbro has on the shelves but with a Chris Pine Kirk and a couple assortments of Into Darkness 'mates. At worst we'd have gotten no 'mates at all.

[youbastards]

We wouldn't have any Star Trek 'mates, as DST has their license through CBS. This also explains why we won't see anything from the Abrams movies from DST.

[monkeycrumb]

I'm actually disgusted that JJ wanted to kill off TOS merchandising! I've already seen the new movie, and I still prefer to buy TOS merchandise over JJ-Trek stuff any day!

I loved the 2009 JJ-Trek, this new film has no heart, and felt like a contractually-obligated movie rather than a story that had to be told. And every line of dialog stolen from previous Trek was badly performed. When Scotty said an old Bones line, it had almost no emotion in it and felt so damn flat. It was a fun noisy spectacle movie, but not one that will hold up with time.

But this movie did nothing to make me believe that Chris Pine could be a Captain at his age.

However, (despite JJ's attempts) this movie brought the opportunity for us to get new Trek Minimates, so for that I'm grateful.

[MisterPL]

This gets me:

Paramount must license the "Star Trek" characters from CBS Consumer Products for film merchandising.

What a clusterfuck. No wonder the movie merchandising program is so sparse this time around. Paramount has to license their own characters from CBS? Ridiculous.

[stack32]

That said, the brilliance of Abrams' plan – to reboot the franchise without erasing any of its past – ...

It would have been brilliant if any of the writers had a clue as to how time travel works in Star Trek.

That really does sound like a mess and I suppose it explains a lot of the odd decisions regarding marketing and tie-ins. Still, Abrams was a fool if he thought classic Trek product would cease to exist because of his movies.

[youbastards]

Don't you just have to fly a spaceship around the sun? It doesn't even need to be an Enterprise-class ship, any Bird of Prey will work...

Edited May 17, 2013 by youbastards

[MisterPL]

Kirk's crew traveled back in time on five occasions in the original TV series, once in the animated series, and again in TVH. (Kirk did it again solo in GEN courtesy of the Nexus.) I'm sure there are plenty of alternate timelines created by those adventures we don't yet know about, not including the Mirror Universe. I don't think JJ did anything new, just different.

[karamazov80]

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly confident time travel worked in all kinds of ways in the various Star Trek series, so Abrams doing something others didn't try doesn't bother me.

[stack32]

I don't want to derail the thread too much more, but I'm pretty sure time travel is fairly consistent in Trek, at least in every episode and movie I can think of: When a change is made in the past it alters the timeline until someone puts things right. So Abrams basically wiped out all of classic Trek to make his movie. Somewhere in the future Guinan is telling Picard that the timeline is screwed up and someone needs to fix it. The alternate timeline approach doesn't work for me because it (surprisingly) isn't really used often in the series, and not in conjunction with the time travel stories I can think of, but I can certainly understand it being a reasonable explanation for others. Honestly, if I didn't find the rest of the movie unforgivably stupid I'd probably let the whole thing slide.

I suppose what I'm really saying is that we need a "The City on the Edge of Forever" boxset with the Guardian of Forever and Edith Keeler in it. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

[MisterPL]

(It's a Trek thread! Where else are we going to talk about this stuff? )

I don't want to derail the thread too much more, but I'm pretty sure time travel is fairly consistent in Trek, at least in every episode and movie I can think of: When a change is made in the past it alters the timeline until someone puts things right.

Yeah, I never subscribed to that notion. To me, as soon as you go back in time you're creating an alternate timeline. There's no such thing as "fixing it," only altering it from the time traveler's perspective. So somewhere there's an Earth dominated by Borg, an Earth that's been destroyed by a giant probe looking for whales, and a 24th century without a Romulus and minus a Spock. We've just been watching a single timeline from the perspective of a specific version of characters. Like the Mirror Universe before it, Abrams has simply introduced an alternate version of those characters.

(Technically we're still following that narrative from Spock Prime's perspective.)

I suppose what I'm really saying is that we need a "The City on the Edge of Forever" boxset with the Guardian of Forever and Edith Keeler in it. I'm sure we can all agree on that.

I don't think anyone's going to argue with that.