Daredevil Netflix (& other show) minimates?

[Twisted Two-Face]

Yea, i'm not sure i see Chuck's logic. It's basically "Streaming is cool since you can watch it all in one sitting, but too weird to work with." But...you can also watch every Marvel film in one sitting. And there are basically the same amount of hours of DD footage as there are Avengers (honestly, in terms of characterization, we probably know Matt better than the Avengers).

Consider how many people are clamoring for a TV DD across the board in terms of figures and Funkos, and the anticipation of a possible Walgreens Legends DD, it seems really iffy to not even WANT to pursue it. Even the comic-styled Marvel Legend is the first to sell from that wave. He's a hot commodity now.

Really bizarre answer.

[Politician]

Twisted Two-Face is spot on, DD has as much screen-time as any MCU hero. The show is a huge success with critics and fans alike.

I wonder if Chuck thought the show would bomb? In any case, I'm just glad I don't collect MCU 'mates because now there would be an unacceptable gap in the collection (even more so than already missing characters).

[youbastards]

Like most other licenses we want, if there isn't a feasible way to produce/market product other than Minimates, then financially Chuck doesn't want to pursue the cost of the license.

Silicone trays, pizza cutters, banks (DST doesn't have the Marvel bank license not sure if the TV licensing would allow banks), bottle openers, etc...

Remember, DST is only permitted to produce a certain number of Marvel Select figures each year, again, not sure if the TV license would count towards that or not.

Edited June 17, 2015 by youbastards

[stack32]

I don't think it's reasonable to assume the licensing for Marvel TV is more like a completely new property than like the movies and we only get minimates and MS figures out of those. Besides Civil War Cap and Iron Man, what could possibly be a better use of their production slots next year for both MS and minimates than Netflix Daredevil? Maybe Chuck doesn't like DD?

[Valo487]

This is frustrating:

Andy H.: Do you guys plan on producing a Daredevil figure based on his new red costume in the Netflix show?

DSTChuck: I do not think at this time we will be making a Netflix Daredevil. The way they film and air these Netflix shows is very cool and fun but is not conducive to making merchandise.

Huh? I can name nine other licensees that disagree.

Yeah, it makes a lot more sense to make waves of movie 'mates that hit shelves months after the film leaves theaters.

This seems to be a case of "I'm not interested, so it's not viable." Chuck catches that a lot, I hope his parents vaccinated....

[fwoosheyman]

Chuck seems to be very conservative in his choices anymore and his personal preferences and biases, I believe greatly influence what DST does, no matter what the market says.

[hellpop]

I assume that his thinking is based on the fact that, by the time they would have product ready, the show's been available for months. Again, that doesn't seem to bother him as much with the movie stuff, where Minimate waves often hit stores weeks if not months after the film's release, and TV shows seem to have a much longer shelf life then movies these days, but I guess this Netflix model is still very new. Who knows, there may be tons of Daredevil stuff warming shelves in six months.

[DSTZach]

Chuck's definitely a fan of many things Marvel, but I doubt that has anything to do with his decisions on Daredevil. He's been doing this a while, and he rolls the dice on new licenses all the time, but even I don't know all the ins and outs of our various contracts. And keep in mind, there's a lot of cool stuff you guys have that you WOULDN'T have if Chuck wasn't such a fan of it.

Even without knowing the license details, I can see a lot of aspects of the release that would make it risky to simply dive in to. The show has one costumed character, there is no official viewership information to draw on, it's on a premium channel (Netflix), no long-term exposure like on a weekly series. The number of minutes of screentime has no bearing on anything.

I assume that his thinking is based on the fact that, by the time they would have product ready, the show's been available for months. Again, that doesn't seem to bother him as much with the movie stuff, where Minimate waves often hit stores weeks if not months after the film's release, and TV shows seem to have a much longer shelf life then movies these days, but I guess this Netflix model is still very new. Who knows, there may be tons of Daredevil stuff warming shelves in six months.

All of our Minimates assortments aim to be out before the film, but sometimes approvals hold stuff up, or production logjams, or boats. But the movies have DVD release dates, with additional promotion. Daredevil does not, yet.

Edited June 17, 2015 by DSTZach

[Valo487]

But even a box set would be something, and this character is only going to get bigger with season 2 and The Defenders coming up, and since it ties into the MCU directly, I think it has a lot more weight than he's giving it credit for.

[Trekker 42]

Season 2 might be more viable for this anyway. Presumably we'll see Fisk again, Matt will spend more time in costume, and we'll have Punisher. 2 costumed characters and one guy who is just so goddamn popular he'd carry his own two pack.

[Valo487]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Daredevil the first MCU entry to have absolutely zero in terms of representation in 'mate form?

Even Agents of SHIELD has Coulson, Sif and Maria Hill, just from a movie wave.

[Politician]

Does anyone know the details on the Gotham 'mates? I'm wondering when DST got the license in relation to Gotham actually airing it's first episode. Gotham has no costumed characters, no big names you'd expect out of the Batman property. Don't say Gordon because if I asked you to name Batman characters, Gordon and 'civilian' or pre-costumed versions of villains would be way out of the way of what almost anyone would name.

I bring this up because Daredevil has it's main characters, has 2 costumes for the main character and a villain basically in costume already. Despite DD airing at a later date, these were both in the pipeline around the same time right? I just can't imagine anyone thinking Gotham would make better or more appealing merch than DD?

Also I know more people that have Netflix and no cable. Literally every friend I have, and every co-worker I talk to has Netflix but I'd say 75% don't have cable or ota antennas. It just sounds so funny to hear that Netflix as a medium would hold back merch when it should be the opposite.

[MisterPL]

Good argument.

I have Netflix because I dumped cable. That's after the recommendation of more than a few friends. The paradigm is shifting.

I'm pretty sure that if we were talking about a Spider-Man TV series on Sony's network, even one that took 13 episodes to get Peter into the classic costume, a certain DST president would be all over it.

[Valo487]

I also dropped cable for Netflix. Because Daredevil.

[TENIME_art]

the anticipation of a possible Walgreens Legends DD

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

What's all this, now?

[DSTZach]

But even a box set would be something, and this character is only going to get bigger with season 2 and The Defenders coming up, and since it ties into the MCU directly, I think it has a lot more weight than he's giving it credit for.

Just a box set is probably not something we can do. We very rarely sign a license for just Minimates. All of our movie deals have been for Minimates and figures.

Good argument.

I have Netflix because I dumped cable. That's after the recommendation of more than a few friends. The paradigm is shifting.

I'm pretty sure that if we were talking about a Spider-Man TV series on Sony's network, even one that took 13 episodes to get Peter into the classic costume, a certain DST president would be all over it.

Okay, so how many people in the U.S. watched Daredevil? I'm very curious, because I do not know.

Does anyone know the details on the Gotham 'mates? I'm wondering when DST got the license in relation to Gotham actually airing it's first episode. Gotham has no costumed characters, no big names you'd expect out of the Batman property. Don't say Gordon because if I asked you to name Batman characters, Gordon and 'civilian' or pre-costumed versions of villains would be way out of the way of what almost anyone would name.

I bring this up because Daredevil has it's main characters, has 2 costumes for the main character and a villain basically in costume already. Despite DD airing at a later date, these were both in the pipeline around the same time right? I just can't imagine anyone thinking Gotham would make better or more appealing merch than DD?

Also I know more people that have Netflix and no cable. Literally every friend I have, and every co-worker I talk to has Netflix but I'd say 75% don't have cable or ota antennas. It just sounds so funny to hear that Netflix as a medium would hold back merch when it should be the opposite.

Opinions of Gotham vs. Daredevil are all well and good (I mostly hear Daredevil is very good, and there are those who dislike Gotham), but to say there are no well-known characters in Gotham means you probably aren't a DC fan. Even if you don't count Gotham City as a famous character, Bruce Wayne, the Riddler, Catwoman, the Penguin and yes, Commmissioner Gordon (a TV, cartoon and movie staple) are all recognizable names. Plus Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Joker, who have been teased in episodes. To say that they aren't in costume overlooks the ten-season popularity of Smallville.

100 million households have cable in the US, while 44 million people subscribe to Netflix worldwide. Gotham averaged 5 million viewers, while there are no Netflix statistics for their shows. Gotham aired weekly for the better part of a year. Daredevil was talked about for a year, then released, and now we're in waiting mode for the next season. Gotham advertises on Fox; I saw ads for Daredevil online, and in free newspapers, but never on TV.

I'm not defending our decision not to do Daredevil -- I'd like a D'Onofrio Minimate as much as the next guy -- I'm just pointing out that we have to weigh a lot of factors when choosing which licenses to invest tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars in. These are things I would look at, if I were the one making a decision, new paradigms aside.

And this is all secondary to the deal itself. Getting one license is never the same as getting another license. There are terms, royalties, timelines, category limitations, territory limitations... All things you need to factor in when projecting what sort of revenue (if any) a license will generate. I'm sure these were the main factor in deciding to do Gotham, and deciding not to do Daredevil, even though they were absolutely not related. Or maybe Chuck just likes Batman more. (Actually, I'm pretty sure he does.)

Edited June 17, 2015 by DSTZach

[Valo487]

Then he's WRONG!!!

Just kidding. But after seeing how well received the DD show was and knowing it will continue, has that changed its viability going forward?

[Politician]

Opinions of Gotham vs. Daredevil are all well and good (I mostly hear

Daredevil is very good, and there are those who dislike Gotham), but to

say there are no well-known characters in Gotham means you probably

aren't a DC fan. Even if you don't count Gotham City as a famous

character, Bruce Wayne, the Riddler, Catwoman, the Penguin and yes,

Commmissioner Gordon (a TV, cartoon and movie staple) are all

recognizable names. Plus Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Joker, who have been

teased in episodes. To say that they aren't in costume overlooks the

ten-season popularity of Smallville.

Well Gotham City isn't a character. The point I'm making though is that Gotham mates aren't marketable looks for these characters. I'm a huge DC fan but if you put a 2 pack of minimates in front of me from the show Gotham, I'd have a hard time figuring out who they were unless I actively watched the show.

I believe more people would absolutely be able to identify Daredevil minimates over Gotham mates because the Gotham mates are not in any way iconic looks. They're all civilian looks, the NAMES are obviously well known but their looks are far from it. Daredevil would more likely be the opposite, even if you haven't seen the new Netflix show, DD in costume with Kingpin, Foggy and Karen would be pretty easy to figure out.

I don't buy the argument of just not knowing Netflix numbers, like Netflix is some spooky unknown thing that just popped up. DD is obviously a huge hit and is getting renewed, it's a shame we're not getting Minimates from it. Also you'd think a subscription service with over 60 million members and rising each quarter and posting record stocks and profits would be enough to pull the trigger on merch for a show that fits into other merch the company does. I don't know the details though but I'd have thought DD a way better match for mates, I think a lot of us did.

[hellpop]

Even if we do know how many people have Netflix, though, we don't know how many of them watched Daredevil because Netfix doesn't release those numbers. I've seen that as a source of frustration for many people in the TV industry.

[Valo487]

Enough watched it that there's going to be a season 2.

[Politician]

That's why I'm wondering about Gotham 'mates. If DST agreed to make these before the show aired, then numbers don't mean anything because there wouldn't have been any. So why Gotham and not the better fit in DD?

[Mnemosis]

Here's my two cents:

Daredevil's not happening for a variety of reasons. I can accept that. But I also totally agree with a number of points to be considered in the future, most importantly...

Daredevil was successful enough to warrant a second season that adds an actor from a major hit TV series as another major Marvel character. So you have one critically acclaimed and beloved-by-fans season, two Best Of worthy heroes, a number of fantastic villains/supporting cast members, and most if not all of these characters able to be represented by existing tooling.

I get that it's a new license/deal/whatever, but it just seems like a total home run, so it's sad/frustrating to see DST not even swinging

[Trekker 42]

That's why I'm wondering about Gotham 'mates. If DST agreed to make these before the show aired, then numbers don't mean anything because there wouldn't have been any. So why Gotham and not the better fit in DD?

Because it's easier to research something like Gotham. Check numbers who'd watch police dramas (lots) plus the success of Arrow and Smallville... It's pretty obvious that unless the show was Seth Macfarlane's Dads awful it'd do well. Whereas Daredevil was the first of its kind in that particular vein of TV. No way to predict how it'd do.

[Politician]

That's why I'm wondering about Gotham 'mates. If DST agreed to make these before the show aired, then numbers don't mean anything because there wouldn't have been any. So why Gotham and not the better fit in DD?

Because it's easier to research something like Gotham. Check numbers who'd watch police dramas (lots) plus the success of Arrow and Smallville... It's pretty obvious that unless the show was Seth Macfarlane's Dads awful it'd do well. Whereas Daredevil was the first of its kind in that particular vein of TV. No way to predict how it'd do.

You must be confused? Arrow and Smallville were superhero shows, they would have no impact on a police drama. Saying Gotham would be a safer bet because it's a DC property makes no sense given the examples because they're completely different shows with different genres and absolutely no connections between them.

Marvel is on an absolute tear, from the start Daredevil had a great cast and connection to the MCU right off the bat. That's a tangible connection, that's something you can actually use for research. Introducing a new show to the fastest growing subscription service, set in an already multi-billion dollar and growing established universe of Marvel films. But Smallville was popular like 5 years ago and some people watch Arrow on CW? That's reliable research?

[stack32]

You might be able to clearly see Gotham's viewership numbers but I think it's a big leap to assume it will do well. Those sets have clearance written all over them.