velvet Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 hi, everybody. just wanted to get your opinions on some of the earlier 'mates (the reallllly old ones from the first few waves, for instance) versus the newer ones that have come out in the past few years. do you prefer the scaled down "basic" look of a standard old school 'mate (like the first version of daredevil in his red costume, say.... or that first captain america that came without the updated boots and masks), or do you find the newer versions of those characters to be vast improvements on the originals? which older 'mates do you still hold near and dear to your hearts as-is... and which older 'mates do you wish could get a newer, slicker, and more detailed update? and while we are on the subject of "details".... how much detail is TOO much detail? do you like the new glove design with the fingers on the updated thanos figure, for instance? or do you think it violates/subverts the basic principles of the 'mate design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvet Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) my own personal faves of the older 'mates: powerman/iron fist, super skrull, magneto, thunderbird, elektra, cyclops, thanos. older versus newer: i like the newer version of daredevil much better than the first one. i like the newer caps better than the first one ( my personal favorite is the regular-masked cap from the invaders set--- to me THAT is by far the best looking version). i like the green goblin from the new villains box set much better than the first goblin. i just wish the new one came with the pumpkin-bomb hand, too. i like the new iron man better than the first one. TOO much detail: i'm not a big fan of that new glove with the fingers for the new thanos 'mate. to me it just goes too far and messes with the basic design of the minimate. Edited June 16, 2009 by velvet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvet Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) i think the following older 'mates are in dire, dire need of re-tooling/updates: juggernaught: that 'mate just looks WAY too anemic and puny. it needs to be bulked-up in a BIG way. doc ock: his face looks way too basic... and his mechanical arms are entirely too short and stubby. modern/extremis iron man: lordy, lordy! THAT 'mate they rushed out as part of that "civil war" box set just looks sooooo bad. he's all wrong, period. we need an updated one with the correct (and uniquely sculpted) parts. Edited June 16, 2009 by velvet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osama_Ben_Lander Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think that the Silver Surfer, being one of the earliest minimates, is still by far one of the best. (I might just be a tad biased, though. :tongue: ) It seriously is one of the simplest, yet best paint jobs in the minimates lineup. In terms of the "old vs. new" minimates, I'm really digging a lot of the newer stuff DST is shipping out. I'd honestly prefer to see more new and obscure characters that we don't already have than remakes of old ones. However, an updated havok or hawkeye wouldn't be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I think ,with me, I need time to consider ,as they get released,the distinct advantages that the latest 'Mates certainly give us. Faces are undoubtedly better & the paint jobs on some of the Iron Mans (?) for example, are incredible. Those are just two random improvements & there are many which I'll let others expand on. The down-side is that sometimes I think AA try too hard & fail miserably. Trying to please their customers is admirable & trying to please cantankerous gits like me (& one or two others who come to mind ) nigh on impossible but does anybody like the new FHS- Fat Head Syndrome that has afflicted the likes of Iron Man & Spidey? Terrible. Ask the old members here .....not 'old' like me but 'old' as in 'been collecting from series 1 ...... & I'd put the good money on the fact they prefer the older 'Mates. When comparing old with new I personally believe that Hulk & Symbiote will never be bettered. The Hulk could have been scaled up with far-longer arms but so far I don't think there's been better although I'm not saying that there hasn't been other good versions. I always bang on about Symbiote but that one Minimate evokes everything that I love about Minimates ......simply beautiful. The Target DD was an instant improvement on the original whilst the new Bullseye 'Hawkeye' is leagues ahead of the original. The most spectactularly funniest thing of all though is........ Wolverine . Of course I like the character but he's not in my psyche as he obviously is with many members. What's so funny ? We have bloody dozens of these now & nothing definitive it appears....wrong helmet,wrong paint,wrong colour,wrong claws,wrong vest(?),wrong whiskers,wrong boots,wrong hair..........not my comments but I swear every time we get a new one someone posts a picture of "what he looks like with XY or Z. It's amazingly funny but I stay well away from those threads ...& velvet ,welcome.....as is your wonderful enthusiasm ......but let somebody else post in between yours :biggrin: Edited June 16, 2009 by buttheadsmate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog7s Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I would say that I am mostly a fan of the newer versions of characters, but I love the original Hulk. He is what defines Minimates for me. Other than him, I'd love to see all of the first few waves re-done with the detail they have now (especially the Fantastic Four and Juggernaut). And as to Wolverine, I'm hoping the newer one that comes with Deadpool will be the perfect version. it only took 27 waves to see it, but we'll finally get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red spade Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have to say it mostly depends on how its done for me the 1st hulk, cap and ironman, are my three faves. it is not that the newer ones are worse in execution(ok maybe some) but it is the small details like wave 5 caps face is still the best one and they have yet to improve on it, same with hulk, and ironman well when i read him as a kid he was yellow and red and seeing him with gold even tho i know that its supposed to be that way the 1st one still has that cool but cute factor.i also have to say that i love how they invoked kirby in there silver surfer tho i have to say i would definitely like a new doc ock and lady deathstrike, because they were done wrong and need improvements bad. elektra also needs a update in fact i can see it now a new villians box set series 2 updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekker 42 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 There are indeed some original mates that I believe have yet to be bettered. Such as the first Iron Man. I only use others because I want to power him up or something. But usually I like the updates more. I also wholeheartedly believe that the Wave 2 Venom has yet to be surpassed in a remake. Some examples on new vs Old for me: -Spider-Man. I LOVE the original, don't get me wrong. But for me, Amazing Fantasy is the one I play with. -Captain America: Invaders is the definitive Cap. End of story. -Hulk: Defenders IS the Hulk. End of that story. -Wolverine: My favorite is the Secret INvasion boxset version. No idea why. I just like him. -Magneto: Magneto is an unusual case. For me, there is only one way to to Magneto: a combonation of old and new. Old face, new suit. To me, that's the perfect Magneto -Sandman: Dunno if this counts but I like the Movie sandman above all others. May do more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniFiend UK Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I do agree some older figures need an update Doc Ock being the main one its a good figure as is but when put with other minimates its a bit cutsey, really needs an update. Juggernaut I would like to see with a powerhouse chest and I would still like a green Hulk with big fists like the ultimate Hulk that is to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog7s Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'd love to see a villians boxset with updated Dock Ock, Juggernaut, Absorbing Man and Chameleon. It'd be nice to get new characters, but I think there's so much they could do to improve those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My Chameleon changes every day & I'm rarely able to find him The odds of getting a new Doc Oc are pretty high I would have thought ....in fact it is amazing there hasn't been another ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthRaider Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Personally, as someone who started collecting Mates late in the game I've become somewhat more partial to the recent designs (yes, including Thanos' new fingered gloves) with few exceptions: I'm still partial to the Yellow Daredevil and 616 Gwen Stacy, for example. Some of these were simple yet definitive enough that no further update is really necessary, though obviously everyone will have their own idea of what constitutes this . As far as updating older mates though, I believe DST should redo some mates from the so-called "part reuse" waves, like the New Avengers wave, the Astonishing X-Men wave, and the Rogue/Cable/Bishop wave. Some of those mates IMO were either disappointingly lacking in creativity/detail or deserve at least one more costume variation in Minimate form. DST are already on the right track by redoing 616 Storm (from the GSXM costume to the Jim Lee one), Sentry (from wave 11 to Dark Avengers) and Julia Carpenter (sort of... I do hope the Secret Wars redo sees production one day). Also, I believe DST should release at least one more 616 Thor... he's a ridiculously popular character and his two wave 16 mates are still somewhat hard to find. Captain America, Iron Man and Hulk have all had recent redos, why not Thor? (And no, his Ultimate version still doesn't quite cut it.) The same goes for the Fantastic Four, the early-wave villains and, heck, even that poor "afterthought" we call Spiderman 2099. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groundhog7s Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My Chameleon changes every day & I'm rarely able to find him I have the same problem with Invisible Woman and Stealth Iron Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM2 Dinobot Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Waves 8-13 are the best IMHO. They nailed the correct amount of detail, paint, simplicity and accessories. My Mysterio used to be a Doc Ock body with a FCBD head and Magneto's cape. Mysterio actually comes out and I go "Good Grief!" the detail was too muck imo. Wave 2 Spidey is still the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvet Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) I think ,with me, I need time to consider ,as they get released,the distinct advantages that the latest 'Mates certainly give us. Faces are undoubtedly better & the paint jobs on some of the Iron Mans (?) for example, are incredible. Those are just two random improvements & there are many which I'll let others expand on. The down-side is that sometimes I think AA try too hard & fail miserably. Trying to please their customers is admirable & trying to please cantankerous gits like me (& one or two others who come to mind ) nigh on impossible but does anybody like the new FHS- Fat Head Syndrome that has afflicted the likes of Iron Man & Spidey? Terrible. Ask the old members here .....not 'old' like me but 'old' as in 'been collecting from series 1 ...... & I'd put the good money on the fact they prefer the older 'Mates. When comparing old with new I personally believe that Hulk & Symbiote will never be bettered. The Hulk could have been scaled up with far-longer arms but so far I don't think there's been better although I'm not saying that there hasn't been other good versions. I always bang on about Symbiote but that one Minimate evokes everything that I love about Minimates ......simply beautiful. The Target DD was an instant improvement on the original whilst the new Bullseye 'Hawkeye' is leagues ahead of the original. The most spectactularly funniest thing of all though is........ Wolverine . Of course I like the character but he's not in my psyche as he obviously is with many members. What's so funny ? We have bloody dozens of these now & nothing definitive it appears....wrong helmet,wrong paint,wrong colour,wrong claws,wrong vest(?),wrong whiskers,wrong boots,wrong hair..........not my comments but I swear every time we get a new one someone posts a picture of "what he looks like with XY or Z. It's amazingly funny but I stay well away from those threads ...& velvet ,welcome.....as is your wonderful enthusiasm ......but let somebody else post in between yours :biggrin: oops! my bad. sorry, i got a bit carried away... and i gotta say that i agree with you 100% on the unfortunate "FHS" of some of the new 'mates--- especially the minimates that don't have any extra pieces on 'em to help minimize the extra head bulk. great stuff, everybody! keep 'em coming! Edited June 16, 2009 by velvet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) There are a few for and a few against when it comes to Old vs New. Cyclops, for example: Grant Morrisons art didn't translate very well into a MiniMate as far as Scott was concerned. A Long, skinny character looked a bit too chunky. I think the Astonishing X-Men costume looked a lot better. I also prefered the Dark Phoenix Cyclops over the GSXM one. GSXM Cyke was a bit too plain - & the sinple shading on the DP Cyke really made him pop. I think the Comic Jean Greys/Phoenix's have gotten better with each release though. But - i do prefer the original Venom over every version since (although Transformation Venom runs a close 2nd place). The same is true if the Thing. I think the original head piece is far better than Battle Scar/Powerhouse versions that came after. I'm also a big fan of the White Queen over the later issued Emma Frost . . . The costume was ok, but the face was wrong, the hair was wrong. It just didn't capture the character. And i have to agree with Civil War IronMan comments on this thread - that was one lousy figure. Every version leading up to him was better, especially Silver Centurian (My favourite Ironman so far). Edited June 16, 2009 by Nessex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimadman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I could use a new Rhino, Kingpin, and Juggernaut. Rhino and Juggernaut need to be bulked up. The Kingpin needs to be bulked up but not as fat as the first one. That 1st chest piece sucks especially now that DST has made such a good Blob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx78jj Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I too like the older ones better. They embody the whole minimate ideals. They were facsimiles of what the other toy lines were making. Like the Marvel Legends of that time. The whole thing was great in the beginning because they were mini versions that somewhat looked like the bigger counterparts. it had a minimalists thing going on. Too much detail can ruin the minimate and too little can make it, not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I've been collecting marvel minimates since the beggining and i much prefer for the most part more detailed mates. The old mates with no sculpted parts and all costume detail painted on seems so archaic to me. And the very early ones that were going for minimum line work as well, i guess they were shooting for the kubrick style initially. As for stuff that needs to be redone, well theres obvious stuff... Juggernaut, and pretty much everyone agrees is the figure most in need of a redo, they need to make him big. I agree with rhino as well, but I'm going to try and customize my rhino by merging him with the new ultimate hulk figure, it looks like there grey color might match, and i can put the hulks big chest on rhino hopefully. the cable, bishop set as well, pretty lame, all the straps should have been sculpted details added on. I also wish the marvel line went with the different sized bodies akin to the dc mates, i still think the dc mates are the best line so far. Marvels gotten allot better, but the size thing bugs me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Man Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I think the Silver Surfer and even the first Captain America and Daredevil are really great. The Thing, too. Also, the first Doctor Doom is another favorite of mine. A combination of the simplicity of the older stuff with the newer "advancements" can be seen in the Heroes set that recently came out. Cap and Spidey are just as great as the originals, but they tweaked them just a little bit. And if you add an Amazing Fantasy Spidey head to that boxed set Spidey body and you have a really hip Ditko Spidey. I like the less detailed style of the older stuff but don't mind the more detailed stuff they're putting out now. I think there's a level of simplicity that has to stay in to really make certain characters really pop. I hope they'll re-do the following characters in the versions they've released them, but with a few changes: Power Man (his face is meh) Iron Fist (incorporate the collarpiece like Deadman had so his chest isn't so big and clunky) Doctor Octopus (longer tentacles and a variant of him in the white suit, too!) Rhino (bigger chest, please) Juggernaut (just needs a big chest piece) Mr. Fantastic (just needs some new "stretch" pieces, ala Sandman with the mallet hands) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) More than just updates, I think the "old vs. new" debate is in large measure an argument over more simplicity over more detail, so I'll post about that. My favorite Minimates reach a kind of balance between simplicity and detail that is tough to describe, but applies to both newer and older figures. If there is too much sculpting, too much detail on a face, or too many extra pieces, etc., then I feel that this usually takes something away from the Minimates. If I want super detailed figures, there are many options beyond Minimates. Some of the worst examples off the top of my head are the Endoskeleton, Civil War Iron Man, modern Cylons, and Apocalypse. Excessive detail works with Hot Toys, NECA, or Marvel Legends, but not with Minimates. But despite the fact that I like my Minimates simple, I do like them to have a certain attention to detail, just not to go too far. I guess this sounds contradictory, but take example one of the Minimates sitting on my office desk right now--Marty from BTTF set 1. He is pretty basic, but the detail on his chest tampo, the laces on his shoes, the design on his rolled up sleeves, and even the sculpted vest are something that really appeal to me. Kubrick Marty, by comparison, also has a sculpted vest, but his shirt and pants are plain blue with black detail, and he has plain white shoes. This isn't his only issue, but Kubrick Marty looks so simple that he is generic, and you can't tell who he really is. Related to this, I also like my Minimates to be able to convey the basic, iconic essence of a character. Take one look at Dr. Strange, DCD Batman, Spiderman, or Defenders Hulk, and you get that, IMO. To me, guys like Astonishing Beast, and Cable fail in this sense. I personally feel this is a problem with many human Minimates, as the likenesses are often very spotty. With Marty, his face really doesn't do Michael J. Fox justice, but the outfit is undeniably Marty, and the face is good enough that it doesn't detract from this. Having said all that, I like getting modernized updates of classics, even if I feel that the newer versions are inferior. The new Classic Iron Man has a crappy face, and I like the more basic yellow of the wave 6 version over shiny gold, but he is very cool in all, the add-ons work in my opinion, and I'm glad to add him to my collection. . .just no more extenda-boots and gloves, please. In general, I think AA has understood the need for balance between simplicity and detail, and has done a very good job of maintaining it, with a few glaring exceptions. Edited June 17, 2009 by karamazov80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marquis de Carabas Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) In general, I think AA has understood the need for balance between simplicity and detail, and has done a very good job of maintaining it, with a few glaring exceptions. my thoughts exactly, sir. I am loving some of these more detailed mates, like the terminator mates, and the movie punisher is amazing. and apocalypse has alot of custom molded parts, but he still maintains a good balance... and it's still evident he's a minimate. that being said, some of my favorite mates are still the simplest ones, like scarlet spider. and my overall favorite is still the yellow daredevil a certain forum owner might've sent a budding minimate collector in 2006 Edited June 17, 2009 by killcharlesdead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Two of my favorite minimates so far this year are War Machine and the Villains set Red Skull, which are at completely opposite ends of the simplicity rainbow... so I guess my view is "whatever works"... Other than the occasional misuse of powerhouse chests (Hawkeye anyone?), I rarely have any major issues with the design choices DST make to represent a character. I am glad they've given us an updated Goblin and Venom that can actually fit in with the rest of the line, but I like the cartoony originals too. And while I understand the urge to update everything ever, I think there's really very few that actually "need" it, in order to look right alongside the newer releases. But Juggernaut, yeah. The big helmet on the skinny body always looked a bit, well, "knobby" to me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillbob316 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I also wish the marvel line went with the different sized bodies akin to the dc mates, i still think the dc mates are the best line so far. Marvels gotten allot better, but the size thing bugs me. While I agree that it would be neat to have giant sentinels and giant mans and what have you, it's a legal issue that can't be helped. Diamond has said this dozens, if not hundreds of times. I don't get why people are constantly questioning them on this. No amount of begging from fans will ever make it any less illegal for them to make Minimates larger than a 2 inch scale. It is what it is. That said, while I'd like for SOME figures to be bigger, guys that are definately HUGE like Sentinels and Galactus... frankly, I DON'T like ones that are only about a half inch bigger. For a very slight difference in scale, it really doens't make much difference to me... I like being able to mix and match parts on minimates. To make frankenmates. To play with their heads and bodies and all that fun stuff. That said, minimates like Bane and Killer Croc, to me, are kinda lame... because there are very very few options when I want to fiddle with their parts, and while I can see how they -could- work as slightly bigger mates, I really don't think they -needed- to be bigger mates. I kinda like what Diamond has done with characters like Hulk, Apocalypse & Abomination... they look bigger, visually, they are bigger, but they're still fully compatible with the rest of the line. That's cool to me, and I'm kinda glad they can't legally mess that up. I'd love a Juggernaut with a big chest, but i don't want one so big that his helmet will fall off any other characters I want to put it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthRaider Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've already learned to make my peace with Marvel's size restrictions. While I'm somewhat baffled by the legal rigmarole that may have prompted it in the first place, I second Gillbob in that the compatibility factor of the 2-inchers has always been one of my favorite parts about Minimates. Besides, it's always fun watching the progression of how DST attempts to sidestep the size limitations: a good example of this is the many ways they've tried upsizing Hulk. Some attempts are better than others, some are just okay, some are just... well, let's just say I always appreciate it when DST experiments with different stuff. If there's one restriction I do not get, however, it's got to be the vehicle restriction. I can only imagine what might've caused this particular restriction, however you just can't deny that there are some characters that need vehicles. I get it that some companies out there probably don't want Minimates infringing on the miniature cars market, but the fact that Green Goblin doesn't even have his own glider or that Ghost Rider doesn't come with his own proper Hellcycle is sad indeed. I mean, do they have any idea how generally hard it is finding/customizing perfect-fitting stuff that size?! Thank goodness though that this is one restriction DST is open to re-negotiating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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