Captain America in the movies

[battlecat]

I've heard a rumor about how they're planning to make his red, white and blue costume mesh with the supposedly "serious" treatment of the film: they give him the Super Soldier treatment, but rather than send him to the frontlines they just make him a performer/mascot/propaganda piece for the USO or something. That might explain the "wants to be just like everyone else" angle. Anybody care to comment on this?

Not a rumor, here's the director talking about it in an interview; the government decides they can't risk him dying in battle when they can't replicate the super soldier experiment. I think it's a great way to get him in costume "seriously".

[BrobotC]

I've heard a rumor about how they're planning to make his red, white and blue costume mesh with the supposedly "serious" treatment of the film: they give him the Super Soldier treatment, but rather than send him to the frontlines they just make him a performer/mascot/propaganda piece for the USO or something. That might explain the "wants to be just like everyone else" angle. Anybody care to comment on this?

Not a rumor, here's the director talking about it in an interview; the government decides they can't risk him dying in battle when they can't replicate the super soldier experiment. I think it's a great way to get him in costume "seriously".

thanks you actually made it alot more clearer to me,battlecat!

[NorthRaider]

I've heard a rumor about how they're planning to make his red, white and blue costume mesh with the supposedly "serious" treatment of the film: they give him the Super Soldier treatment, but rather than send him to the frontlines they just make him a performer/mascot/propaganda piece for the USO or something. That might explain the "wants to be just like everyone else" angle. Anybody care to comment on this?

Not a rumor, here's the director talking about it in an interview; the government decides they can't risk him dying in battle when they can't replicate the super soldier experiment. I think it's a great way to get him in costume "seriously".

... and the internet backlash on that comments page is deafening.

Actually, when you really think about it the USO angle does kinda make sense. However the big fit the fanboys are having appears to be over the need to justify Cap's costume in the first place. "Hey, if a guy with superpowers can get away with wearing bug-themed blue-and-red tights in the middle of New York City, then why can't an athletically-enhanced flag man step into the warfield?!"

Let's think about it for a second: when somebody with "superpowers" decides to go out in the open and start helping people, the first thing that doesn't come to his mind is "Hey! Maybe I should dress up like a giant bird/bat/insect/mammal/robot/whatever and randomly scare the crap out of people!" In-story there's usually some deep-seated symbolism or at least a personal reason to justify the bizarre-looking alternate identity (even though in real life they're just designed that way in comics to make the characters jump out of the page). In the Iron Man movie the Mark III is red and gold because the base armor was gold-colored and Tony Stark just decided to "throw in a little hotrod red" for kicks and giggles because he can. The reason Spider-Man gets a "free pass" over his costume's origin in the movies is because Peter Parker's a modern-day teenager with a young imagination and possibly a very meta pre-exposure to comics. You can't exactly apply the same logic to a forties-era full-grown man wanting to fight for his country.

The point is that national pride or not, Steve Rogers can't just decide out of nowhere to take on the Nazis wearing a flag, that costume has to actually have some sort of origin first. They could maybe have Steve talking to a tailor and then seeing the American Flag and then having his big inspirational epiphany , or he first receives the shield which had already been "decorated" for him and he gets his "That's preposterous, Steve!"-worthy Eureka moment on how to boost troop morale. But this USO angle works perfectly fine too, having that element of both historic verisimilitude and real-world cynicism to it.

Imagine this: Steve gets the Super Soldier Serum, and is raring to go into battle. His superiors go, "No we can't risk getting you killed" and make him work the USO circuit and wear the flag costume. Steve does so hesitantly, but becomes an instant hit with the troops. Suddenly he gets the chance to sneak out and actually fight in the war, and decides to wear the suit to convince his "fans" to let him ride into battle with them. He kicks major ass. And the rest is history.

Or something.

(Hey, I'm neither American nor a longtime Captain America reader so this is just my own take on things.)

Edited February 10, 2010 by NorthRaider

[karamazov80]

I don't disagree that it is useful to provide a somewhat logical reason for a character to wear a certain outfit. I mean, in movies, these are actual human beings that we are suppose to take somewhat seriously, and providing a back story to the costume helps to add believability.

But what I don't get is, why make him perform with the USO at all? If he's too valuable to use in battle, then keep him under wraps in a secured location until you have a scenario in which you need to use his skills. You could dress up any schmo in a colorful outfit and parade him out in front of people. Why do this to the Super Soldier?

By taking this step, which is really pushing the boundaries of reasonableness, you're jumping through unnecessary hoops and wasting valuable screen time the way I see it. You might as well just skip it, dress him up like that because he is a "symbol, meant to inspire," throw him into the Nazi hordes to kick some ass, and leave it at that.

But then, maybe this helps to better convey the story of the "kid, who just wants to fit in."

Edited February 10, 2010 by karamazov80

[NorthRaider]

Yeah, but wouldn't it kinda go against the character of the military to dress up one of their assets in something so strange-looking? I mean, I get that it's propaganda and all but isn't it still pretty thick for a group of hardened army officials to decide their new most powerful asset be dressed in a flag? At least the USO is a privately-owned venture, so it wouldn't be completely unbelievable for them to try crazy gimmicks.

As for the why-make-Steve-do-the-USO thing, my guess is that the army tried to keep Steve hush-hush at first, but then somehow news of the program leaks and the public starts demanding they want to see their tax dollars at work and have Steve be put into active service. And since the government can't send him to battle, they "gently encourage him" to perform in the USO instead.

Then again I guess I wouldn't be surprised if this turned into another one of those things in superhero movies the writers decided not to bother explaining anymore.

[karamazov80]

Maybe. Personally, I don't really care much about this specific issue, but I think that no matter how you get there, it is still a fairly silly, fantastical thing to have Cap dressed as he does, and the viewer is just going to have to accept that at some point. And I don't understand completely why they are going through such convoluted efforts to justify it when such effort is, in my mind, not necessary.

But at the end of the day, as long as he looks close enough, I'll be satisfied. I don't really care how he gets there.

[Mirymate]

Apparently the original concept of Captain America as a propaganda weapon specifically against the Nazi super-terrorist and propaganda weapon the Red Skull is getting turned on it's ear here. Apparently modern thinking is overiding the "we are will to try whatever" attitude of the 1940's war effort. The allies hired stage magicians as camoflage experts for goodness sakes. They hadn't built the box to go outside yet. The Nazi's had a costumed agent stirring up panic, the US countered with one of it's own. I'm with Sam, adding the USO is an unnessicary step and marks the first time a Marvel movie has been this afraid to embrace it's own roots. I figured it would be an oppertunity to put an actor in the Ultimate Cap WWII uniform, which even being a huge 616 guy, I will admit I liked better as a "realistic" WWII Cap.

[minimadman]

there is a truly disturbing rumor on the internet that John Krasinski from The Office is one of the front runners to play Captain America. According to deadline.com the list of actors testing is Chace Crawford, John Krasinski, Scott Porter, Mike Vogel, Michael Cassidy, Patrick Flueger. I love The Office and I love John Krasinsnki on The Office but he is not Captain America. The only 2 names on that list that I could remotely get behind are Scott Porter, who is really good on Friday Night Lights, and Mike Vogel. Both actors are 30 and would be good but I would prefer Porter, who is said to be a huge comic book fan. I hope that John Krasinski has enough sense to know that this is not him. I remember reading that Josh Hartnett was once offered the part of Superman but turned it down because he knew that it wasn't him.

[Turtle]

Scott Porter is the only one that I like for Cap. He's great in Friday Night Lights, and, yeah, he's a comic fan. I remember an open letter by him published in Wizard trying to get a Green Lantern project going or something. I like John Krasinski and would like to see him somehow in the Movieverse, but not as Cap. I can see him doing an interesting take on Ant Man.

[battlecat]

Maybe he could be the "before" Steve... only half kidding.

[Mirymate]

This is a joke right? Tell me this is a joke. Lie to me if you have to but tell me they're joking.

[karamazov80]

Well, remember there was a Chris O'Donnell rumor awhile back that turned out not to be true. So, I would take this stuff with a grain of salt until we get something official.

--edit: I don't see anything on AintitCool about this, and they will post most rumors coming from authoritative sources. . .--

Edited February 24, 2010 by karamazov80

[minimadman]

It's on Slashfilm.

[Nekoi]

Scott Porter is the only one that I like for Cap. He's great in Friday Night Lights, and, yeah, he's a comic fan. I remember an open letter by him published in Wizard trying to get a Green Lantern project going or something. I like John Krasinski and would like to see him somehow in the Movieverse, but not as Cap. I can see him doing an interesting take on Ant Man.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Porter's actually been decent on Caprica aswell.

Krasinski's great, but not Cap material.

[Mirymate]

I've seen posted in several places that Johnston and Marvel are not happy with each other already. He may have threatened to quit, or was almost fired depending on your "source". Marvel is denying there's any problems, though apparently the crews are being warned there may be a start delay. Keep in mind Marvel denied there was any problems when Incredible Hulk went into editing too. No reason for the current argument is being given. Actually, few details are attachted to this at all. So add it to the O'Donnell/Krasinski salt pile.

[minimadman]

Scott Porter & Michael Cassidy have both announced that they are out of the running for Captain America. I really wanted Scott Porter to get it but I guess it's not to be. That leaves Chace Crawford, John Krasinski, Mike Vogel,& Patrick Flueger. I guess I want Vogel to get it now.

[minimadman]

JOHN KRASINSKI IS OUT!! Not only that but Chris Evans and Garrett Hedland have entered the fold.

[NorthRaider]

Let's see...

or

Thoughts?

[Mirymate]

JOHN KRASINSKI IS OUT!! Not only that but Chris Evans and Garrett Hedland have entered the fold.

Thank the good Lord! There was a brief period early in the week when he looked like the frontrunner and I was bracing myself for another round of Michael Keaton-esque disbelief suspension. I like the guy, but I just wasn't seeing it and adding to my concerns about the director's "vision".

I don't know these other frontrunners, except Evans (and he's more Hawkeye than Cap to me), so on them I cannot comment.

[karamazov80]

Great news! Maybe this was an intentional ruse just so that whomever they end up with looks fantastic by comparison.

[Nekoi]

I was bracing myself for another round of Michael Keaton-esque disbelief suspension.

That at least lead us to some decent results. Krasinski was more on the Halle-Berry-as-Catwoman WTF level.

[Mirymate]

I was bracing myself for another round of Michael Keaton-esque disbelief suspension.

That at least lead us to some decent results. Krasinski was more on the Halle-Berry-as-Catwoman WTF level.

Yeah, but we didn't know that going in. There was a great pre-internet cry going up at comics shops coast to coast when "Mr. Mom" got cast as Batman. We were all quite certain that Warner Brothers had lost their mind casting this string bean with a receeding hairline to play Batman. Much like now trying to cast Cap, we didn't know who we wanted, but we were pretty darn sure Keaton wasn't it. Ironically Keaton went on to give one of the better performances in the role.

This is what I kept telling myself as it looked for a while like the part was Krasinski's.

[minimadman]

HUGO WEAVING HAS BEEN CAST AS THE RED SKULL!!! I guess if you are going to make a geek property into a movie this is a step in the right direction.

[Trekker 42]

HUGO WEAVING HAS BEEN CAST AS THE RED SKULL!!! I guess if you are going to make a geek property into a movie this is a step in the right direction.

Oh SWEET!

I mean, yeah. There are very few actors I could see in this part doing better. Pretty much Ralph Fiennes... That's about it.

I'm excited for this movie even more now!

[Mirymate]

I don't know... have we heard Hugo's bad german accent? I mean, I looking so forward to a lot of bad Nazi accents in the vien of the old Wonder Woman show. "Vonce ve kahpture Vonder Voman, ve kahn return tu ze Fahzur Lahnt" kinda stuff. Ah well.

Seriously. Good choice there.