undeadpool Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 okay but the point of Ultimate WAS to change everything about the canon characters and have some fun in the process, and fresh off the heels of Ultimatum, i was personally fine with a change up... also am I the only person who couldnt stand Ultimate Peter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 If you want a character of a new race, religion, creed, sexuality, ANYTHING, have the balls to make a brand new character. Batwoman was brilliant. Batwoman was brilliant eventually. I love her but I'd argue the only thing new about the latest incarnation of Batwoman was that she was a lesbian. Sure, they changed the costume and tweaked her name from "Kathy" to "Kate" but if anything she was a long-awaited, post-Crisis reboot, not an all-new character. (Of course that's all changed with the reintroduction of Kathy but still…) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappymojo Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Miles Morales greatest claim to fame: Not that he killed off the best Spider-Man in recent years (pre-Untimatium) but that he's half black, half hispanic, and possibly half gay! How insulting to the character that that is all people focus on. :/ That's like having Powergirl be a well rounded and interesting character, and not being able to get past the boob window. Or Batwoman being gay. I'm so glad we live in a culture where focusing on the characters takes precedent over physical characteristics. Oh, wait... I have no idea what point the post above is trying to make, what side of the argument TM2 is on, or what the argument is really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM2 Dinobot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 My point is exactly what the other guys said. Characters should be exactly that: organic, story driven characters. Not a cash grab by the big 2 to try and garner some media attention. It always comes off as "We're still relevant! Oh, God we're still relevant! Please read us!" Sometimes you'll get a writer that can make the character work. But they don't start off any less desperate. (IDW's Drift) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Two-Face Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) My point is exactly what the other guys said. Characters should be exactly that: organic, story driven characters. Not a cash grab by the big 2 to try and garner some media attention. It always comes off as "We're still relevant! Oh, God we're still relevant! Please read us!" Sometimes you'll get a writer that can make the character work. But they don't start off any less desperate. (IDW's Drift) Batwoman being gay works though, i think. Pre-52, when DC showed her backstory regarding the military and being kicked out for being a lesbian, i think that made for a really compelling story. That felt fresh and different, as opposed to say, Alan Scott, who was "just gay because go with it." It's also not really her defining her trait, it just works with her character. Granted, when Rucka started throwing a hissy fit because DC wouldn't let him marry her off, that started to irritate me; the marriage thing felt like Rucka pandering to like-minded individuals. But everything else felt pretty natural. (I really like Batwoman...) If you want a character of a new race, religion, creed, sexuality, ANYTHING, have the balls to make a brand new character. Batwoman was brilliant. Batwoman was brilliant eventually. I love her but I'd argue the only thing new about the latest incarnation of Batwoman was that she was a lesbian. Sure, they changed the costume and tweaked her name from "Kathy" to "Kate" but if anything she was a long-awaited, post-Crisis reboot, not an all-new character. (Of course that's all changed with the reintroduction of Kathy but still…) Not totally "new" though; she was still a lesbian with Renee Montoya's Question in the 2006 52. I'd say a good 8 years and making it through a company reboot is pretty great for her. Granted, i never thought she was a "reboot" of the original Batwoman, like how the animated Mystery of the Batwoman one wasn't either. Edited May 2, 2014 by Twisted Two-Face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappymojo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How did Miles Morales kill off Spider Man? What about Miles Morales being biracial is not organic? What makes you think he is half gay? That last question is serious. I never got that impression. Even if he was gay though why is that automatically a cash grab? Did Marvel market him as gay or biracial? Are creators never allowed to change or update characters? Why are they not allowed to introduce new characters that reflect a different interpretation of an established character? Shit, SpiderMan is going in 50 years many with two or more monthly comics in production. Dont you think it will be boring if Peter Parker cant change or if a different character cant assume his identity? Nevermind that Peter Parker in the standard universe is still here. It was ultimate Peter Parker that died and some old school readers probably considered Ultimate Spider Man (Peter Parker) sacrilege from the start anyways. As to the DC stuff I still don't understand your point or comparison. When comparing Batwoman being gay to Power Girl's character and/or cleavage, what two of the three are you comparing? Are you saying that being gay is a physical attribute of Batwoman? I honestly cant follow the way you built your last paragraph to understand your point. As for me, I dont read DC but I have enough respect for Gail Simone as a writer to believe in her integrity. As for Miles Morales, I like him. Havent read him since the Galactus cross over event started though. The rest of the Ultimate Universe is too much of a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekker 42 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How did Miles Morales kill off Spider Man? What about Miles Morales being biracial is not organic? What makes you think he is half gay? That last question is serious. I never got that impression. Even if he was gay though why is that automatically a cash grab? Did Marvel market him as gay or biracial? Are creators never allowed to change or update characters? Why are they not allowed to introduce new characters that reflect a different interpretation of an established character? Shit, SpiderMan is going in 50 years many with two or more monthly comics in production. Dont you think it will be boring if Peter Parker cant change or if a different character cant assume his identity? Nevermind that Peter Parker in the standard universe is still here. It was ultimate Peter Parker that died and some old school readers probably considered Ultimate Spider Man (Peter Parker) sacrilege from the start anyways. As to the DC stuff I still don't understand your point or comparison. When comparing Batwoman being gay to Power Girl's character and/or cleavage, what two of the three are you comparing? Are you saying that being gay is a physical attribute of Batwoman? I honestly cant follow the way you built your last paragraph to understand your point. As for me, I dont read DC but I have enough respect for Gail Simone as a writer to believe in her integrity. As for Miles Morales, I like him. Havent read him since the Galactus cross over event started though. The rest of the Ultimate Universe is too much of a mess. And readers like me who have stayed with Ultimate Comics for a while considered it sacrilege that they'd get rid of the last decent thing that the Ultimate U had left. I don't like Morales much, but part of that came from how attached I was to Parker. Yes the Death of Spider-Man was a good story to end him on. And I consider that story THE ending of Ultimate Spider-Man. Goodnight sweet prince and goodnight Ultimate Universe as I believe that Parker's death was the beginning of the last gasps of that side of Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Even for a MMMV thread this thing is seriously derailed. I'm a little surprised looking at all those variations that so few of them have been updated recently. Considering the rate that we get Spider-Man I would expect some of them to be worked in more frequently. Also, looking back at all the standard costume versions that have been made I'm a little surprised at how little they've been varied. Most of them are more or less Romita versions with an occasional more modern look in the mix. If we're going to get that Spidey so often it would be nice to have a little more variety of eye and spider style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcansFury Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 My point is exactly what the other guys said. Characters should be exactly that: organic, story driven characters. Not a cash grab by the big 2 to try and garner some media attention. It always comes off as "We're still relevant! Oh, God we're still relevant! Please read us!" Sometimes you'll get a writer that can make the character work. But they don't start off any less desperate. (IDW's Drift) That would be great but it seems like the deck is already stacked against that since Marvel/DC love to send out their press releases every time it happens. They seem overeager to break their arms patting themselves on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Okay, here we go: Villains that we haven't got yet: Silvermane Molten-Man Stegron The Trapster The Wizard (not a Spider-Man villain per se buthe hangs around in some of the same circles) Tombstone Hammerhead Overdrive Boomerang The Living Brain The Beetle (Abe Jenkins and Janice Lincoln) Speed-Demon Morlun The Spider-Slayer (Alistair) The Black Tarantula Carrion The Jackal The Crime Master Goblin Knight Grey Goblin Grizzly Jack O'Lantern Mister Fear Puma Shriek Spot Spidercide The Tinkerer White Rabbit Vermin Will'O Wisp Scarecrow Crime Master Man-Wolf Swarm Stunner Spider-Slayers Female Ock Venom 2099 Villains in desperate need of an update: Vulture (either classic or the new black and red one) Chameleon (needs no explaination) Hobgoblin (again, same as the Chameleon) Hydro-Man (the new costume looks sick and we could get some awesome water bases) Villains that could use an update: Kraven (sculpted vest) Shocker (the new costume) Scorpion (the new costume) Mysterio (the new costume) Supporting Cast: Robbie Robertson Betty Brand Flash Thomson Mary Jane Watson Uncle Ben (comic version) Phil Urich Ben Urich Norah Winters Glory Grant Harry Osborn Ned Leeds Ganke Lyla (Miguel's Hologram) Felicia Hardy Anna Maria Marconi Jay Jameson Sr Carlie Cooper Captain Watanabe Liz Allan Normie Osborn Spider-Minions Other heroes with a relationship to Spider-Man: Kaine Ben Black Cat Silver Sable Aracely Spider-Girl Prowler Sun-Girl Madame Web Non-Classic Villain Versions: Ultimate Green Goblin Ultimate Hobgoblin Ultimate Prowler Noir Chameleon Noir Goblin Noir Vulture Smythe upgraded Vulture, Scorpion and Boomerang Ends of the Earth Ock White suit Ock Ends of the Earth Rhino Ultimate Ock Remaining Spider-Man (and Spider-Clones) costumes: 1602 Updated Iron Spider Noir 2099 Kaine Scarlet Ben Scarlet Ben Spider-Man MacFarlane Spider-Man Ends of the Earth Bag-Man Superior with the tentacle-spider legs things Secret War Manga India 2211 Hornet,prodigy,Dusk,Ricochet Spider-Thor Spider-Hulk Spider-Lizard Spider-Ham Man-Spider Earth X Spider-Armor (could use some sculpted parts) Ultimate What I'd like to see and how i'd pair it: Spider-Man 2099/Venom 2099 Ultimate Ock/Ultimate Spider-Man Hobgoblin Kingsley/Ben (Spider-Man) Black Cat/Vulture Mr Fear/Daredevil Kraven/Scarlet Kaine Kaine (regular)/Stunner Ben Scarlet/Jackal Noir/Noir Chameleon (him and 616 are pretty much the same) Tombstone/Beetle Janice Shocker/Boomerang Overdrive/Speed-Demon Earth X/Earth X Venom Iron Spider/Trapster Morlun/Battle Damaged Spider-Man Silver Sable/Secret War Ben Scarlet/Jackal Jack O Lantern/Spiky armor Flash Venom Scarecrow/Updated Danny Ghost Rider Prowler/Crime Master Ultimate Ock/Female Ock Mary Jane/Manga Robbie/Hammerhead Ben Urich/Phil Hobgoblin Beetle Abe/Living Brain Spidercide/Carrion Titannia/The Wizard Spider-Minion/HAMMER Agents (Norman Osborn and all) Harry Osborn (in American Son armor)/Grey Goblin (Gabriel) Also, a Slingers Box Set I know that some of these don't make that much sense but oh well, a man can dream. You're missing Shriek & Doppleganger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappymojo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 And readers like me who have stayed with Ultimate Comics for a while considered it sacrilege that they'd get rid of the last decent thing that the Ultimate U had left. I don't like Morales much, but part of that came from how attached I was to Parker. Yes the Death of Spider-Man was a good story to end him on. And I consider that story THE ending of Ultimate Spider-Man. Goodnight sweet prince and goodnight Ultimate Universe as I believe that Parker's death was the beginning of the last gasps of that side of Marvel. That seems like a valid reaction to the death of ultimate Peter Parker, and I can see why that would turn you off of whatever character replaced him but I dont see how Miles' race or sexuality factors into the discussion. I am happy to let writers artists and creative types take chances. Without chances or reinterpretations of characters there is no ultimate Peter Parker. My last post on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikfenix Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Great list Kostis. Ones I'd most like to see would be Puma and Prowler along with classic Beetle, Speed Demon, Boomerang and Jack O Lantern. I'd also like to add Demogoblin, The Rose, Rocket Racer and Tri-Sentinel. Not that it's likely some of these would be made but still. Some of these could come out awesome. Would gladly buy just about every two-pack you mentioned.. most wanted combos would be Scarlet Spider/ Jackal, Jack O Lantern/ Venom and GR/ Scarecrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Apollo and Midnighter is definitely the way to handle these kinds of issues IMO. That never felt like a gimmick to me. Edited May 3, 2014 by karamazov80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scythe Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 We have a Todd McFarlane Spidey, don't we? The Torment one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Okay, here we go: Villains that we haven't got yet: Silvermane Molten-Man Stegron The Trapster The Wizard (not a Spider-Man villain per se buthe hangs around in some of the same circles) Tombstone Hammerhead Overdrive Boomerang The Living Brain The Beetle (Abe Jenkins and Janice Lincoln) Speed-Demon Morlun The Spider-Slayer (Alistair) The Black Tarantula Carrion The Jackal The Crime Master Goblin Knight Grey Goblin Grizzly Jack O'Lantern Mister Fear Puma Shriek Spot Spidercide The Tinkerer White Rabbit Vermin Will'O Wisp Scarecrow Crime Master Man-Wolf Swarm Stunner Spider-Slayers Female Ock Venom 2099 Villains in desperate need of an update: Vulture (either classic or the new black and red one) Chameleon (needs no explaination) Hobgoblin (again, same as the Chameleon) Hydro-Man (the new costume looks sick and we could get some awesome water bases) Villains that could use an update: Kraven (sculpted vest) Shocker (the new costume) Scorpion (the new costume) Mysterio (the new costume) Supporting Cast: Robbie Robertson Betty Brand Flash Thomson Mary Jane Watson Uncle Ben (comic version) Phil Urich Ben Urich Norah Winters Glory Grant Harry Osborn Ned Leeds Ganke Lyla (Miguel's Hologram) Felicia Hardy Anna Maria Marconi Jay Jameson Sr Carlie Cooper Captain Watanabe Liz Allan Normie Osborn Spider-Minions Other heroes with a relationship to Spider-Man: Kaine Ben Black Cat Silver Sable Aracely Spider-Girl Prowler Sun-Girl Madame Web Non-Classic Villain Versions: Ultimate Green Goblin Ultimate Hobgoblin Ultimate Prowler Noir Chameleon Noir Goblin Noir Vulture Smythe upgraded Vulture, Scorpion and Boomerang Ends of the Earth Ock White suit Ock Ends of the Earth Rhino Ultimate Ock Remaining Spider-Man (and Spider-Clones) costumes: 1602 Updated Iron Spider Noir 2099 Kaine Scarlet Ben Scarlet Ben Spider-Man MacFarlane Spider-Man Ends of the Earth Bag-Man Superior with the tentacle-spider legs things Secret War Manga India 2211 Hornet,prodigy,Dusk,Ricochet Spider-Thor Spider-Hulk Spider-Lizard Spider-Ham Man-Spider Earth X Spider-Armor (could use some sculpted parts) Ultimate What I'd like to see and how i'd pair it: Spider-Man 2099/Venom 2099 Ultimate Ock/Ultimate Spider-Man Hobgoblin Kingsley/Ben (Spider-Man) Black Cat/Vulture Mr Fear/Daredevil Kraven/Scarlet Kaine Kaine (regular)/Stunner Ben Scarlet/Jackal Noir/Noir Chameleon (him and 616 are pretty much the same) Tombstone/Beetle Janice Shocker/Boomerang Overdrive/Speed-Demon Earth X/Earth X Venom Iron Spider/Trapster Morlun/Battle Damaged Spider-Man Silver Sable/Secret War Ben Scarlet/Jackal Jack O Lantern/Spiky armor Flash Venom Scarecrow/Updated Danny Ghost Rider Prowler/Crime Master Ultimate Ock/Female Ock Mary Jane/Manga Robbie/Hammerhead Ben Urich/Phil Hobgoblin Beetle Abe/Living Brain Spidercide/Carrion Titannia/The Wizard Spider-Minion/HAMMER Agents (Norman Osborn and all) Harry Osborn (in American Son armor)/Grey Goblin (Gabriel) Also, a Slingers Box Set I know that some of these don't make that much sense but oh well, a man can dream. You're missing Shriek & Doppleganger. Shriek's in there. Doppelganger is the one I'm missing. We have a Todd McFarlane Spidey, don't we? The Torment one? Yeah, but he could use an update. The eyes just aren't big enough to be a true MF Spidey. Great list Kostis. Ones I'd most like to see would be Puma and Prowler along with classic Beetle, Speed Demon, Boomerang and Jack O Lantern. I'd also like to add Demogoblin, The Rose, Rocket Racer and Tri-Sentinel. Not that it's likely some of these would be made but still. Some of these could come out awesome. Would gladly buy just about every two-pack you mentioned.. most wanted combos would be Scarlet Spider/ Jackal, Jack O Lantern/ Venom and GR/ Scarecrow. I tried to add the most well known characters, otherwise we'd be here all day. I myself would love a superior foes box set with a complimentary two pack, updates of the remaining sinister six and the 2-packs you mentioned the most. I just want a 2099 and Kaine DST, how tough is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBMM1 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well I feel like given the fact that 2099 is getting his own series this year, the chances of getting him are pretty high! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well I feel like given the fact that 2099 is getting his own series this year, the chances of getting him are pretty high! I demand a 2099 wave! Tiberius Stone/Spider-Man 2099 Venom 2099/Liz Allen Normie Osborn/Hipster Gang Dude(read the backup of Amazing 1) Goblin Gang Dude/Spider-Slayer And everyone is happy! Three army builders, 4 new characters and one much needed redo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 the only 2099 mates i want are an updated spidey and a doom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 the only 2099 mates i want are an updated spidey and a doom My line-up is motly based on the new comic, not the general 2099 line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I really want to build an army of Spider Minions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) I really want to build an army of Spider Minions. Me too man, me too.... A Superior wave is practically forming itself! Known villains, army builders, supporting cast, needed redos, more spider-man costumes, it has everything! Edited May 3, 2014 by Kostisfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scythe Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 @Kostisfire Yes, that is true. McFarlane Spidey needs an update and I would just love that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Spider minions would be a great army builder for a Spider-man wave. I'd also love a translucent blue Peter Parker to follow SpOck 1 around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappymojo Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Never read Doom 2099 but think he is making an appearance in Uncanny Avengers currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Collector Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Spider minions would be a great army builder for a Spider-man wave. I'd also love a translucent blue Peter Parker to follow SpOck 1 around. I support this! Also, any other translucent mates that can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.