Georg Brewer gone?

[Punisher]

Chuck has said many times that he wants minimates in 2'' format, so that could be the deciding factor.

[TM2 Dinobot]

yeah, marvel is 2". period. All others lines were based around that. Hence 2" mates in everything. Also, Chuck pushed HARD to keep DC Mates 2". 2.5" mates was 1 of 2 mistakes they made in my opinion. The second was abandoning the JLU style.

[karamazov80]

I don't think the 2.5 inchers played a role in the lack of success of those Minimates. They only stuck one in per wave, if that. Though you don't know what kind of lag there is behind the decision being made to stop producing a line and it actually wrapping up, you have to figure that the horrible character selection (in terms of getting sales) of some of the latter waves played a role. Waves 4, 6, and 8, particularly. Those waves work if you are 15-20 waves into a line. But at that early stage, they should have done more iconic, desirable characters IMO. At least stick one or two "winners" in every wave, and I don't mean battle damaged variants.

[groundhog7s]

I don't think the 2.5 inchers played a role in the lack of success of those Minimates. They only stuck one in per wave, if that.

Just to be anal, waves 3 & 7 had 2 each in them.

I think the only thing wrong with DC mates was that they were controlled by DC Direct. If DST had handled the line, I'm convinced the line would still be going strong.

[Rad]

I don't think the 2.5 inchers played a role in the lack of success of those Minimates. They only stuck one in per wave, if that.

Just to be anal, waves 3 & 7 had 2 each in them.

I think the only thing wrong with DC mates was that they were controlled by DC Direct. If DST had handled the line, I'm convinced the line would still be going strong.

And we'd have already had Superman Blue, Superman Red, Superman Reborn, The Batman of Zurr En Ah, Gotham by Gaslight Batman, and The Composite Superman/Batman.

[youbastards]

I would love to see DST revisit the line, so hopefully this reorg will give them a 2nd chance. However, I can say that one of the things that caused me not to pre-order them was the lack of a variant. I didn't have the 'cause for alarm' to pick these up that I do for waves that have a variant character. The later character mixes really didn't work for me either.

IF DST were to someday revisit the line, I would like to see them do it in themed boxsets, ala Back To the Future, Ghostbusters, with TRU supporting the line with 2-packs.

They should bump the number of 'mates in a boxset to 5, include lots of alternate pieces and accessories, and charge $20 a set.

Each boxset would then have a 'heavy hitter' with villains and supporting characters.

Examples:

Superman boxset

- Superman with parts to make Clark Kent

- Lex Luthor with parts to make Armored and non-armored

- Lois Lane

- Braniac

- Supergirl

Batman boxset

- Batman (with Bat-gear and parts to make Bruce Wayne)

- Joker

- Commissioner Gordon

- Robin (with parts to make "insert Robin identity here")

- Two-Face

This would allow them to release secondary boxsets later:

Superman Boxset 2

- Superman (costume variation, battle damage, etc)

- Jimmy Olson (parts to make Perry White)

- Doomsday

- Mr. Mxyzptlk

- Power Girl

Batman Boxset 2

- Nightwing (with parts to make Dick Grayson Batman)

- Penguin

- Killer Croc

- Batgirl

- Alfred

I really think this style of marketing works for DST. These types of themed boxsets with supporting TRU 2-packs would be great sellers. With 5 'mates per box, even at a slightly higher MSRP, you would really get a lot of collectors grabbing these up.

Edited October 6, 2010 by youbastards

[karamazov80]

Just to be anal, waves 3 & 7 had 2 each in them.

I forgot about wave 3, but wasn't Clayface on the 2 inch body, with extra, sculpted parts? I think Grodd was on the bigger body, though.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Just to be anal, waves 3 & 7 had 2 each in them.

I forgot about wave 3, but wasn't Clayface on the 2 inch body, with extra, sculpted parts? I think Grodd was on the bigger body, though.

No. there was a 2" prototype that they were going to use but ended up picking the 2.5" body.

[3Dean]

I haven't seen this mentioned before, but I think that DC Direct didn't consider them a success because they didn't sell out (not that they didn't sell). A while back when Luke was selling cases of MiniMates at clearance prices, I noticed the cases were numbered.

The MiniMates cases were labeled with a number out of what appeared to be the full run of cases.

DC Wave 5 (2000) - Shazam/Mary Marvel, Red Tornado/Ma Hunkel, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, and Guy Gardner/Kilowog

DC Wave 6 (1800) - BD WW/Cheetah, Supergirl/Bizarro, Stargirl/STRIPE, and Blackhawk/Sgt. Rock

DC Wave 8 (1200) - Red Son Supes/WW, Raven/Cyborg, Sinestro/Salaak, and Question/Batwoman

Marvel Wave 23 (750) - Cloak/Dagger, Nova/Gamora, War Machine/Spymaster, and Jim Rhodes/Spymaster

Marvel Wave 26 (650) - Wolverine movie wave

Marvel Wave 32 (800) - X-Force Cable/X-23, Iron Man/Titanium Man, Yellow Jacket/Kree, and Goliath/Kree

If these are the actual run, you can see that DC Direct thought they would sell over twice as many as the Marvel series. I think Georg or whoever decided the production run over estimated the demand and that's why they weren't considered a success. Maybe they needed such a large production run to justify all the new piece molds and use of 2.5" MiniMates, but the SRP was higher on the DCD MiniMates. I think it was that they thought they would be more popular than the Marvel ones and over saturated the market.

Of course, now that TRU carries pretty much all the MiniMate lines, DC would have much better luck if they worked out a deal with them as well or just allowed DST to acquire the license to produce them.

Either way, I can only hope that DC MiniMates are closer to resurrection!

[pavehawk78]

I don't think the 2.5 inchers played a role in the lack of success of those Minimates. They only stuck one in per wave, if that.

Just to be anal, waves 3 & 7 had 2 each in them.

I think the only thing wrong with DC mates was that they were controlled by DC Direct. If DST had handled the line, I'm convinced the line would still be going strong.

And we'd have already had Superman Blue, Superman Red, Superman Reborn, The Batman of Zurr En Ah, Gotham by Gaslight Batman, and The Composite Superman/Batman.

I have the Composite Superman/Batman already....thanks to Luke

[buttheadsmate]

I haven't seen this mentioned before, but I think that DC Direct didn't consider them a success because they didn't sell out (not that they didn't sell). A while back when Luke was selling cases of MiniMates at clearance prices, I noticed the cases were numbered.

The MiniMates cases were labeled with a number out of what appeared to be the full run of cases.

DC Wave 5 (2000) - Shazam/Mary Marvel, Red Tornado/Ma Hunkel, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, and Guy Gardner/Kilowog

DC Wave 6 (1800) - BD WW/Cheetah, Supergirl/Bizarro, Stargirl/STRIPE, and Blackhawk/Sgt. Rock

DC Wave 8 (1200) - Red Son Supes/WW, Raven/Cyborg, Sinestro/Salaak, and Question/Batwoman

Marvel Wave 23 (750) - Cloak/Dagger, Nova/Gamora, War Machine/Spymaster, and Jim Rhodes/Spymaster

Marvel Wave 26 (650) - Wolverine movie wave

Marvel Wave 32 (800) - X-Force Cable/X-23, Iron Man/Titanium Man, Yellow Jacket/Kree, and Goliath/Kree

If these are the actual run, you can see that DC Direct thought they would sell over twice as many as the Marvel series. I think Georg or whoever decided the production run over estimated the demand and that's why they weren't considered a success. Maybe they needed such a large production run to justify all the new piece molds and use of 2.5" MiniMates, but the SRP was higher on the DCD MiniMates. I think it was that they thought they would be more popular than the Marvel ones and over saturated the market.

Of course, now that TRU carries pretty much all the MiniMate lines, DC would have much better luck if they worked out a deal with them as well or just allowed DST to acquire the license to produce them.

Either way, I can only hope that DC MiniMates are closer to resurrection!

Your account of what is written on the side of Minimate cases is correct .With respect however ,you have failed to acknowledge that there are at least two types of case from DST for Marvel Minimates .....the standard & the custom ('god) ,each of which is numbered & labeled differently ...& to get your final run both these figures need to be added together ! Whether they are the actual runs is also debatable but it is inarguable that it is one hell of a coincidence that most rare Minimates correspond with low numbers indicated on sides of cases.

From here on in I'll entertain a debate.........I personally consider that prior to the advent of Marvel Minimate God cases & DC Wave One ,Minimate cases were produced in numbers of about 1700 . A notable exception would be the X3 wave which corresponds to 'rare wave' & 'low numbering on case'. Producing 2000 sets of the first 5 DC waves to test the water wasn't too far off the mark ..... I can't blame Georg Brewer for that one.

[dr baghead]

Of course, now that TRU carries pretty much all the MiniMate lines, DC would have much better luck if they worked out a deal with them as well or just allowed DST to acquire the license to produce them.

What are the limitations set upon DC retail because of Mattel's license?

Just because DCD (as DC Ulimated) and DST sell products in TRU doesn't mean they could sell DC Minimates there if Mattel's contract says they can't.

"But they sold Watchman figures", yeah but Mattel's contract doesn't cover Watchman the fact only 13in DCUlimated figures to show at TRU have been Watchman retailed probably means they can only sell what Mattel can't.... and the fact Mattel has a line of DC Blockfigures ("TRIOS" and I'm sure they could qualify SuperFriends in the same catagory if needed) that come with blocks and action figures it probably shuts and locks any TRU doors DC Minimates had

DST sells Marvel and so does Hasbro, but Marvel seems WAAAAAAAY looser with it's licensing, I see Marvel on products I've never seen DC versions of (Never seen "Batman random chalky candies" when he didn't have a movie out or "Batman sand molds" but I can go get both with Spider-man's ringing endorsement right now at Dollar Tree) DC actually had a contractl with Hasbro that prevented DC THEMSELVES from making Batman and Superman figures (which is why the popular joke on DCD is 'they're making up for lost time' with so many Superman and Batman releases instead of diving into the companies history of lesser heroes like they used to), so clearly their contract guy knows what he's doing when it comes to exclusivity rights.

rambling from here on out:

So looking over the release list of DCD Minimates it's pretty clear: this line lost its way on Wave 3. What do people like in Marvel Minimates and DCUC? Completing Teams! Who's DC's most popular character? BATMAN!

DC Minimates should focus on the following:

-Building the Rogues Gallery/Family of Batman

-Building the Rogues Gallery/Family of lesser JLA member

-Team Building a non-JLU team

-A pack for a character that's relevant

-Humor Option

Wave 1, 2, and 7 fit nicely into that:

Wave 1:

Batman: Batman, Joker, and Harley

Lesser JLA: Hal, Star Sapphire, Supes, Lex

Team Building: Hal is the second GL DCD released after Jon, OMAC is technically an army builder

Relevant: OMAC

Humor Option: Killing Jokish Joker and Harley Quinn

Wave 2:

Batman: Penguin, Robin

Lesser JLA: *Supes, Power Girl, Brainiac

Team Building: Dr.Fate/PG=JSA, Booster/Beetle=JLI

Relevant: Blue Beetle who was recently shot in the face and Booster Gold who time traveled around to try and save him

Humor Option: Blue Beetle and Booster Gold

*yes he's a BD variant, but his eyes are heat vision and his chest symbol is black which also makes him a "Pissed moody" Superman rather then the "standard" Superman in the first wave, had he been yellow symbol/normal eyes he would not be counted.

Wave 7:

Batman: *Batman, Nightwing, Clayface

Lesser JLA: Flash, Grodd

Team Building: Nightwing/Starfire/Flash(he was kid flash when Dick was Robin after all)=Titans

Relevant: none

Humor Option: Lobo and Ambush Bug

*although he's still a Blue/Grey Batman at least they styled him completely different to quote Hank Venture "ones Golden Age Batman and the other's post-crisis Batman, two completely different characters!"

Great sets all 3! In fact, some else I noticed: You get two Bats, Two Supes, and Two Graysons if you collect all 3 sets but they're VERY different unlike some of the variants to come in the series lower points:

Now wave 3 we see the line start to get shakey:

Batman: **Batman, *Killer Croc

Lesser JLA: *Wonder Woman, Ares, *Green Arrow, *Aquaman, Ocean Master

Team Building: none, unless you want to count Slade which I don't

Relevant: none

Humor Option: none.

*These 3 get special notes because they packing was botched on every level. Why Ares and Ocean Master? Wonder Woman and Aquaman don't have that many good villains, why put them out with the lamest ones first? WW might be one of the "Big Three" but it's because she has tits and was for the longest time legally required to have her own book (much like Superman is now legally required to have a movie by 2012) she's not THAT interesting and people only known of her fighting "that bitch in the cat pajamas", same with Aquaman, everyone knows who he is but no one LIKES him, they LIKE TO LAUGH AT HIM, and they know he fights "the black dude in the scuba suit". If you explain Ares or Ocean Master to joe-six-pack-never-heard-of-dc-outside-of-cartoons he'd say "What?! Wonder Woman fights the actual God of Wars?! Like to promote the videogames?! WHAT!?! Like the actual Greek one?!" followed up "Aquaman has a brother?!? Can he do the WOOP-WOOP-WOOP talk to fish things too? OOOoohhh! Must be scary villain then", those two should have come with Black Manta and Cheetah and been done with it.... and Green Arrow coming with Deathstroke, yeah I know they fought in a then recent comic, but since hindsight is 20/20 that recent continuity nod will NEVER make up for getting no Black Cannary or Beastboy needed to go with the figures in their set.

**I really don't count Battle Damage Batman as new character, but I guess if you strip him down he's "A Hard Days Knght" Bruce Wayne back in his cave after a night of kicking ass and getting his ass kicked, would have looked better in Black and Gray instead of the exact same Blue and Gray though.

*** I like 2.5in mates, but I wish the Kilogwag chest had existed for Croc, he looks really bland and skinny, he's bigger but not "badder" which makes an unappealing figure

Despite my complaints about villain choices and Batman Coloring, this wave is okay if the line surives, the next few not so much:

Wave 4:

Batman: Batgirl, *Bane

Lesser JLA: Steel, Cyborg**

Team Building: Wildcat, Classic Flash**

Relevant: Spectre (although not this spectre)***

Humor Option: none.... okay, maybe a little dark humor if you consider Babs has a broken spine and Bane breaks spines... but he did not break her's so it's a stretch.

*Again Bane needs the Kilowag chest, he's tall but not 'big', he looks like he can get the pickles off the top shelf, but then needs to ask his wife to open then since he's so weak. He's very, very bland

**If we had gotten Superboy/Eradactor and compeleted the JSA these two sets would seem much more appealing, but as it is they're a case of the couldabeens

***Odd we get classic Spectre when the one being promoted his newest incarnation yet with Question it's the opposite...

Wave 5: I Can't believe this isn't wave 49 it's so lame:

Batman: NONE!

Lesser JLA: *Hawkman... Hawkgirl doesn't count because only one member can have any power. Red Torando was the JLA right?

Team Building: Guy**, Kilowag**, Shazam***,Mary Marvel***

Relevant: none!

Humor Option: none... unless putting the most obscure character possible in the line is supposed to be funny****

*Looking at Angels amazing wings, I'm glad DST couldn't use Hawkman's for him

** I like Guy and Kilowag and proudly have them in my display, but they can't carry a set to save their lives. Put them with a bigger gun, one with Sinestro and the other with Kyle or a Hal/Jon variant and they're winners, but put them together and its a sleeper set. The fact both are the only major Lanterns to get massive amounts of screen time on Brave and the Bold should say something about their popularity.

*** If DC comes back a 3rd time it NEEDS a "big chest" for it's caped heroes, it's bizarre to me the Big Red Cheese is the same size as a tiny girl who's skirt and hair make her look BIGGER then him, Batman and Robin and Supes and Powergirl also suffer this were the muscular 6ft 3 adonis is smaller then their slight-of-frame counterpart... also Shazam should have come with Black Adam, it makes the glaring size issues less apparent and it gives you a nice hero/villain set. Mary should have come with Cap Jr. Right I just complainted about Guy/Kilowag but if Mary/Jr were a set AFTER Shazam/Black Adam they're a team finisher (well I guess an Uncle Shazam/Wizard would really finish the team) so they become more appealing then two guys who you don't want since you'd rather have Kyle

****when your line last forever having Ma Hunkle is a nice touch, when it dies after 7 waves, You go to Hell DCD for not giving us Two-Face or an updated Catwoman or Martian Manhunter or SOMEONE GOOD!

Wave 6:

Batman: NONE!*

Lesser JLA: Supergirl, Bizarro, Cheetah**

Team Building: Stargirl/STRIPE***=JSA, Rock/Blackhawk=WW2 characters

Relevant: Supergirl is new Supergirl!

Humor Option: none

*Again no Batman, I think most collectors tuned out waves with no Batman characters, I know I did

**not counting Wonder Woman because he's EXACTLY THE SAME as Wave 3's, not a new costume like Supes, can't be striped down to be 'wounded Diana Prince', it's Wave 3 Wonder Woman with some black lines and the villain she should have come with in wave 3 (although Classic 'Cat Pajamas' would have been INFINITELY better design wise)

*** Again, I like the 2.5 inch mates and think they need a 'big chest', but Stripes is the most horrible minimate I've ever seen and I own the Friends and Foes box set and have a broken Creature From the Black Lagoon.

Take note, we just had TWO waves with no Batman characters and the Biggest name was a torn up Wonder Woman, not even something fun like "Amazon Armor Wonder Woman" or "Golden Age Wonder Woman" nope, Battle Damage! Also in my opinion Wonder Woman's hair is not well planned out, it's HUGE it makes her look like a cosplayer with a B-52 Hairdo and bike shorts

So as I said before Wave 7 seems to get it's shit together, but then... came Wave 8:

Batman: Batwoman*

Lesser JLA: Sinestro

Team Building: Salaak**=last GL we'll get (sorry Kyle!), Raven/Cyborg=Last Titans we'll get (we can pretend Hulk is Beastboy having turned into a shaved monkey!)

Relevant Unknown: 52 era Batwoman and Question, Commie Supes and WW from the latest Elsworld book!***

Humor Option: none!

*Guess what a-holes, if you want a Batman family member who's somewhat-romantically-linked-to-the-Question: HUNTRESS!!! And then you put her with Vic Sage! The sudden jump from super super classic (Ma Hunkle?) to Super Super Modern both confuses and angers customers (also a quick wiki search reveals Batwoman still exist, that surprises me)... it's really odd we get a classic Robin, a Babs Batgirl who's not in a wheel chair, Ted Beetle not Jamie, Wally as Flash and not Impluse as Flash or Barry Allen returned or whatever was going on in 52 with Flash, classic non-52 era Spectre then suddently it's 52-era Batwoman and Question... very weird.

**Salaak would have been awesome if the line hadn't died and could have supported an army of weird alien GLs as it, he's just too weird looking and doesn't really mesh with the other existing minimates.

*** Elseworlds are a great idea, but why Red Son? Because it was newest? It's a great story and will be a 'classic' but why not start with a "Classic" Elseworld that's already a Classic? You got two desaturated versions of over saturated characters (PUNS!) a 2.5 DKR Batman and Girl Robin would have been a MUCH stronger Elseworld debut in my mind, but that's probably just because I like DKR (it's also a nod to DCD's first 'artist specific' figure line) heck if the goal was just a Supes/WW two pack, Golden Age would have been a better choice with the brighter reds and blues AND you can still use the lovely skirt piece.

tl,dr: seriously, what was up with wave 5?!

Edited October 9, 2010 by dr baghead

[groundhog7s]

Wow Dr. B, I wished you had gone more in-depth instead of such a short post.

[buttheadsmate]

Dr.Baghead, what a brilliant post & an amazing insight into DC Minimates, you really know your stuff .

"I can't believe this isn't Wave 49 it's so lame"

Edited October 9, 2010 by buttheadsmate

[Mystery Man]

I liked Wave 5. We got Hawkman, Hawkgirl and Red Tornado for some Silver/Bronze Age JLA.

Guy and Kilowog were cool, as they were more GLC members. Looking back now I might trade them out since we didn't end up getting any others after that but Salaak, though.

Ma Hunkel was a head scratcher for some, but I got a kick out of her since I could use her parts to make a Forbush Man custom!

I'm still hoping we'll see another round of DC minimates.

[Jatta Pake]

When I get the job at DC Direct, my first act will be to hire Dr. Baghead as consultant on the structure of DC Minimates relaunch.

Message to Georg Brewer:

Dear Mr. Brewer,

I am saddened to learn of your departure before you had an oppurtunity to relaunch DC Minimates. I know in my heart you planned to do this all along - as you planned to finish other lines of incomplete DC teams. Sadly, Warner Brothers foolishly decided to relocate DC Direct to Los Angeles - a hellpit of despair, anguish, and unending traffic.

They shall rue the day!

I do have one request fine sir. Over the past few years I have conducted a campaign to send you thousands of cardbacks from the DC Minimates line. As you are no longer head of DC Direct, I would appreciate it if you returned those cardbacks to me. As I live in Los Angeles, I plan to PERSONALLY DELIVER those thousands of cardbacks to the next head of DC Direct.

MUWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Warner Brothers are fools!!!! Nothing will stop me from stalking the next president of DC Direct!!!! You are in my town now, biatch!!!!!!!! Victory is MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish you luck and godspeed in your future endevors, fine sir.

Sincerely,

Jatta Pake aka "That stupid sumbitch fanboy who keeps mailing me cardbacks"

[buttheadsmate]

JP ,do you by any chance keep blood-slides inside your LG Air-Con unit