Let's discuss the mini-Minimates

[NorthRaider]

Wow, never thought they could actually happen. (Okay, not quite the same thing... but really now!)

I don't know how many of you guys feel the same way, but I think those prototype pics of the Father's Day "kid" mates from Toyfair might in fact be one of the more astounding Minimate developments we've seen in a while. And I mean game-changing, "C3 feet"-level astounding. I mean, up until then I didn't even think it was logistically possible for Minimates to appear smaller than two inches, let alone as part of an actual product line!

So this got me thinking about a couple of things:

1. How do you guys think these could be executed? In the Toyfair thread we already considered the possibility that the articulation might be reduced from the regular 14 to maybe around 5 points, with things like hair and elbow/knee joints becoming just simple sculpted-on details. But do you guys think it could be possible to simplify the design even further? Or maybe to somehow retain some of the other articulation besides the base 5?

2. What other block figures do we know that are shorter than 2 inches? Regular LEGO minifigs are a given, but other than them the only other type I can think of are these guys from the Tomica Town sets. Both examples have just the 5 points of articulation. The fact that there aren't that many examples probably just goes to show what a design challenge anything at that absurdly small a scale really is.

[TM2 Dinobot]

I was thinking for a while there might be 6 POA, but I now believe that the waist would be far too brittle. So the bast 5 (head, shoulders, hips) is probably more likely. Though if they could find a way to make them fully articulated, DST could propel themselves to the top of the dog pile.

As for how they're marketed, I still say hallmark. It's a perfect location. Plus the 2 pack blisters and the blind boxed boosters for the dads just seem like it would fit in there. This is the type of thing you see at Target or JC Penny for seasonal or something, though I don't foresee that happening.

[NorthRaider]

I have a small confession to make: for the longest time I'd been meaning to work on some handy but neat-looking Minimate Anatomy chart we could all turn to for times like these, kinda like this one:

I'll probably try and work on taking a good Minimate picture for a reference later, but I'm not literally saying we should start coming up with weird jargon to refer to the parts with, like "t-piece" or "head cup"

In the meantime these are the major articulation points we're all familiar with:

neck

2 shoulders

2 elbows

2 wrists

waist

2 pelvis-to-leg joints

2 knees

2 ankles

With regards to the mini-minimates, I think it's safe to say that the neck, shoulder, pelvis and waist articulation have the best chance of being retained on the figure, anything beyond that becoming a logistics nightmare for the AA guys. However I guess I wouldn't be surprised if they'd cut down the articulation even further, maybe retaining just the neck and shoulders and making the kids similar to Hasbro Heroes articulation.

Then again I remembered the proto pics still containing some semblance of the other joints: why sculpt that detail in when they can just simplify the molds and create seamless parts like on the Lego guys? They could mean one of two things: either DST wants to retain some vestigial elements of the overall Minimate aesthetic (like those unarticulated Lego Batman Happy Meals a few years back), or they're going to do the impossible and attempt a fully-poseable 1.25-inch Minimate

Edited February 16, 2010 by NorthRaider

[buttheadsmate]

These are To-Fu kubricks (yawn) produced years ago (yawn) & are known as 'Mother & Child' or 'Mother & Son' (zzzzzz). The 'Mother' is regular size kubrick & the 'Son' is as pic.

In 2005 the Buffy Palz series had a box set known as The Monster Pack & featured a child-vampire known as the 'Annointed One'.....

Amazing idea from DST

[NorthRaider]

Okay, I guess I may have spoken too soon on the "game-changing" part

BHM, may I ask how's the articulation on the child Palz?

[buttheadsmate]

Okay, I guess I may have spoken too soon on the "game-changing" part

BHM, may I ask how's the articulation on the child Palz?

I am almost positive that he has the same articulation as a regular palZ .....I am 160 miles from 'ol Bumblebee so can't absolutely confirm this 100% .

[Danny]

Articulation on the Anointed One was the same as the regular Palz, I think. Possibly not the exact range of motion as the normal ones.

[Rheul]

I dont see any reason the the artic would be any different from a regular mate. Was the artic on the Palz any different than a Minimate?

[dr baghead]

I'll probably try and work on taking a good Minimate picture for a reference later, but I'm not literally saying we should start coming up with weird jargon to refer to the parts with, like "t-piece" or "head cup"

but those are the fun things on that image, calling the hip a "j-pop" and the foot a "d-cup" and what look like half-jokes like "I-Bone" and calling the hip "B-Nut" and weird sorta words like "H-Tube" (which looks like it's supposed to be "Hot Tub") and "T-Bolt" (for Thunderbolt?)

I suggest the following names for minimate anatomy:

-U-Can (Head) attaches via Peg-E (neck peg) to:

-C-Block (Torso) which on either side via Peg-L (shoulder peg) attaches to:

-I-Hop (upper arm) which is fastened via H-Rod (elbow pin) to:

-I-Pod (lower arm) which has a P-Hole (hand slot) you can attach an:

-I-Cup (hand)

The bottom of the C-Block has the:

-A-Hole (torso hole) for the:

-S-Pin (Hip peg) which attaches the P-Nut (hips) to the figure

-P-Nut has two S-Balls (leg pegs) on either side which hook onto:

-J-RPG (upper leg) which via A-Rod (knee pin) fastens to:

-J-FK (lower leg) which via the B-Hole (foot slot) you can attach

-J-Rock (foot)

.... seriously, do Stikfa people really say stuff like "I used a Female Knight Beta's T-Bolt, the I-Bones from a Xevoz Ape Shaman, and the J-Pops off an Alpha male Dragon Rider to make this custom" or "shoot my Omega Blank Red's H-Tube was missing, anyone got a spare?" is that just for show on the poster so they could label each piece and sound fancy rather then say "Upper arm!" "Lower arm!" since I can't imagine people actually using complex naming systems when the obvious works just as well

Edited February 16, 2010 by dr baghead

[NorthRaider]

I dont see any reason the the artic would be any different from a regular mate. Was the artic on the Palz any different than a Minimate?

According to Danny and BHM the articulation of the smaller Palz remained the same, albeit with a slightly more limited range of motion.

However regular Palz are design-wise more robust than Minimates, which in turn are closer in size to the smaller Palz. We are talking about really small Minimates that would be closer in size to Lego people here, I have my doubts that they can exceed 5 or 7 points of articulation.

Another thing about "downsizing" block figures scale-wise: plastic strength. I own a couple of the Delta Boy Stikfas figures which are only slightly taller than Minimates (the regular ones are closer to 3 inches in height), and I've noticed that with the reduced size there were also thinner, structurally weaker parts, which usually caused more stress marks and higher risk of breakage near the joints. Now apply the same logic to Minimates, which have a slightly more intricate knee/elbow design. With that in mind, they're better off with reduced articulation.

.... seriously, do Stikfa people really say stuff like "I used a Female Knight Beta's T-Bolt, the I-Bones from a Xevoz Ape Shaman, and the J-Pops off an Alpha male Dragon Rider to make this custom" or "shoot my Omega Blank Red's H-Tube was missing, anyone got a spare?" is that just for show on the poster so they could label each piece and sound fancy rather then say "Upper arm!" "Lower arm!" since I can't imagine people actually using complex naming systems when the obvious works just as well

From what I can recall of the Stikfas fansites the fancy part names only really came up whenever the longtime customizers talked shop about potential design mods or when newer members needed to trade specific parts that were broken or missing (and trust me, this happened a lot), and even then they mostly cribbed off that anatomy chart.

And yeah, you have a point that just using the regular names for the body parts worked just as well. I guess the only real problem comes when the full names can get really unwieldy to use and repeat in daily forum conversation, especially when certain parts were more prone to breakage than others or if you get a brain fart and forget basic human anatomy (i.e. "Dammit! Does anyone else have a spare Mephisto... lower body thingy with the two ball joints that attach to the legs?)

EDIT: I just remembered another possible reason why the Stikfas part jargon was necessary: Unlike Minimates there were several different Stikfas body types each with uniquely-proportioned parts. Off the top of my head there were three basic male body types (the regular, Classic and G2 Alpha Male), one female type (the Beta Female), one child type (the Delta Boy I mentioned earlier), one male type with a moderately buff build (the Omega male I think), one really buff-sized male type (the G2 Gamma Male) and one tall-and-skinny male type (the Sigma Male, really just the regular Alpha Male with a new torso and knee/elbow extenders).

You can probably imagine why some part abbreviations were necessary.

Edited February 16, 2010 by NorthRaider

[Bob Harris]

I'm really looking forward to actually see those new mini-minimates but I'm also a little sceptic. I can really imagine DST/AA is going to give them the same ariculation the usual mates have, but I think the design itself is a little weired. What I mean is something sombody already mentioned in the TF thread - I guess it was Cappy: You can perfectly use them as Hobbits or smaller "grown-up" characters, but children aren't just small adults, they do have different proportions and in my eyes, the father's day childs look pretty weired or even scary just because of that.

When it comes to the material, you might be right NR, the mini²-mates might be pretty fragile. But although we got some quality issues once in a while with our beloved plasticcrack, all in all DST/AA produce pretty good stuff. I'm confident the final product will be just fine - or will never make it...

[Dio]

I think they might actually manage to have all 14 points of articulation. They went from 3" to 2", and I'm sure they can do it again.

[buttheadsmate]

I couldn't understand why DST decided upon these Minor-mates when the larger 'mates (big DCs & 3"ers) seem to be frowned upon but I reckon I may have the answer! Just lately we have had some very 'left-field' 'mates making it into production ,Ghostbusters being the prime example , & these consist of standard size Minimates with large slip-on/clip-over pieces added on ,Terror-Dog being the most notable,that dog is enormous!! I know that GB ghosts sizes are irrelevant ....because they are ghosts & ghosts come in any size I guess...but all the ghosts are huge in comparison to the GB themselves. My point is that adding unusual /alien/ weird sculpts to a standard Minimate invariably makes it huge compared to a humanoid figure. Still with me ? Good, because we are moving into Battle-Beast territory which may well involve all sorts of strange sculpts added on & maybe someone has sussed that to keep all things regular .....when all the add-ons are added......you have to start off with a smaller Minimate ....a Minor-mate. Of course all the Minor-mate parts will have the same ball joints /sockets which will be interchangeable with standard Minimates but will have shorter/narrower torsos , smaller heads & shorter limbs.

There is no way that DST are going to tool up for these Minor-mates just to do a Father's Day series when they seemingly refuse to utilise existing tooling to make a series of 3" characters to complement existing 2" characters .

Of course this is supposition but there has to be an ulterior motive IMHO.

[NorthRaider]

I think they might actually manage to have all 14 points of articulation. They went from 3" to 2", and I'm sure they can do it again.

Yeah, but downscaling from 3 inches to 2 is easy compared to going from 2 inches to whatever height those Father's day kids were.

I guess hypothetically it might be possible to retain all 14 points of articulation at that scale, but then you have structural integrity to worry about. Did you see the pic of that one prototype that needed Blu-Tak to keep the one shoulder and hip joint on? If DST wanted to keep all 14 points without anything getting broken, I figure they can do one of two things:

- Modify the joint system slightly, maybe simplify the knees by doing away with the pin design

- Use a denser plastic

The last one might be too much finicky business on DST's end, especially if it's just a holiday mate we're talking about. And changing the joints might cause some purist trouble, so if they intend to retain all 14 points they might just keep everything exactly the same and hope for the best like they always do.

While I would be satisfied if they did somehow keep the full mate articulation, if some of it had to be compromised for the sake of keeping the mate in one piece I can probably do without the wrists, ankles and waist, depending on how well the knees and elbows hold up.

Edited February 16, 2010 by NorthRaider

[boyd]

Good, because we are moving into Battle-Beast territory which may well involve all sorts of strange sculpts added on & maybe someone has sussed that to keep all things regular .....when all the add-ons are added......you have to start off with a smaller Minimate ....a Minor-mate. Of course all the Minor-mate parts will have the same ball joints /sockets which will be interchangeable with standard Minimates but will have shorter/narrower torsos , smaller heads & shorter limbs.

Interesting conjecture. Having a smaller body used for, say, rabbits or monkeys would make apes and bears with normal bodies seem more impressive. I would love to see this be true, but I'm not sure having a sense of scale would add to the play value of Battle Beasts.

[NorthRaider]

Especially since I've just quickly skimmed the web for Battle Beasts updates, and it appears the purists still aren't sold on the Minimate design

[Mystery Man]

These are neat to me for one main reason: Maybe we can get a teeny Ant-Man, Wasp, Puck or Franklin Richards.

I think they're pretty neat. I look forward to seeing Battle Beast and other characters done this way on one hand. On the other hand, I don't since it might mean certain characters couldn't be part-swapped with others because the smaller parts and larger parts (obviously) won't be exchangable.

[TM2 Dinobot]

There is no way that DST are going to tool up for these Minor-mates just to do a Father's Day series when they seemingly refuse to utilise existing tooling to make a series of 3" characters to complement existing 2" characters .

Bwah? Why not? They make new molds all the time.

[Cappy]

And here I thought NR was starting a thread about how Minimate daddies and Minimate mommies make Minimate kids....

I will say that smaller, fully articulated figures exist out there: the minor-PALz, MegaBloks Pyrates, DeQue, and Tinibiz. The first two have the full 14 POA, while the latter have 10. And no, I don't remember the Palz kid having a lesser range of motion. These lines all seem to use a harder plastic than 'Mates do, dunno if that matters.

I came away from those Father's Day pictures feeling like the ball joints were, in proportion to the 'Mate scale, larger. Whether they are same diameter as 2" 'Mates, of course I couldn't say.

Ultimately, my guess is we may lose elbows and knees, dropping the minor-mate to 10 POA, but DST will find a way to get the rest of it in there, even if it means retooling some joints. But man, I hope they scale the head back up slightly. Of course, if you're hoping for a Wasp or Ant-Man, guess the head ratio should stay as is.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Cappy

[battlecat]

I guess the only real problem comes when the full names can get really unwieldy to use and repeat in daily forum conversation, especially when certain parts were more prone to breakage than others or if you get a brain fart and forget basic human anatomy (i.e. "Dammit! Does anyone else have a spare Mephisto... lower body thingy with the two ball joints that attach to the legs?)

It's a sad day in your life when you can't remember what a crotch is.

I agree about the freaky mini-adult proportions, not to mention the terrifying grins on their faces. If I found myself fishing with that demon child I'd push him in the river and run for my life!

[Mirymate]

I'm just happy that not only are we getting victims in addition to first responder fodder for my various villains nerafious schemes.

I'm really not sure how these little things are going to work either.

[Cappy]

I agree about the freaky mini-adult proportions, not to mention the terrifying grins on their faces. If I found myself fishing with that demon child I'd push him in the river and run for my life!

Well, you just removed yourself from the Father of the Year ballot.

[groundhog7s]

I just want to know if they'll be easily customizable. I've always wanted a Ventriloquist with Scarface Bat-villian and I think these would work. In fact, I'm sure if you glued a hand peg into any of their backs you could easily make your own Miniermate puppet.

[Nessex]

Great Idea groundhog!

I'm always looking for ways to expand my Batman's Rogues gallery. I might pinch this idea if these mini-minimates ever come out!

[karamazov80]

If we ever got Horror-Mates (which we should), they could use these for an entire wave, at least--Chucky/Leprechaun, Ghoulie/Gremlin, and Troll 2/the Brood 2-packs. Variant would be Leprechaun from the Hood, of course.