Redoing DCD Minimates

[hellpop]

One of the ironic things about DC Direct's decision to- for the time being, at least- drop Minimates is that one of the greatest strengths of the line, it diverse and eclectic character selection, has become a weakness. We're left with a line that has Ma Hunkel but no Martian Manhunter, Ambush Bug but no Two Face. So I decided to look back through the releases and see how I would update these waves so as to maximize the amount of available slots with the best characters possible. It's not easy; some favorites have to go. I've tried to balance out some of the odd pairings as well. Perhaps, on one of the parallel Earths where DC Direct is not run by a bunch of [insert favorite derogatory term here], these are the Minimates they're getting.

WAVE 1:

Not a lot of changes here needed. Some may quibble with the choice of Star Sapphire over Sinestro, but there are plenty other GLs to pair with the Big Red Head. Also, I sorta would have preferred Silver Age Luthor, but the Battle Armor is so cool it's hard to quibble. There's one 'mate that stands out, though: OMAC. With all the great villains Batman has, he comes with OMAC!? Ridiculous. I'm sure the thinking was that the Bat villains are strong enough on their own to not need to be packed with Batman, but I'm going to go ahead and throw Two Face in this spot.

WAVE 2:

Well, the most important thing is that, with limited spots available, there's no room for battle damaged guys. So you're gone, BD Superman. Also, Braninac 13 is a pretty minor incarnation of the character. I'd like to put in SA Brainiac, but I can't think of a good pairing, so I'm afraid he's gone too. This pack is thus replaced with... Martian Manhunter and Firestorm. Both are essential for anyone trying to recreate the classic JLA, and I think Firestorm may be the coolest 'mate of all (no pun intended).

Also, I'm subbing out GA Green Lantern for Dr. Fate. There's a pack down the road that makes more sense for the good doctor, and I can't find a better spot for GL.

[hellpop]

WAVE 3:

Ocean Master, I'm sorry, it's nice that they chose you, but you're just not the best Aquaman baddie. Plus, you're a rather uninspiring Minimate. You're benched. Black manta, get your glove, you're in the starting lineup.

And here's another BD figure... gone. Modern Robin in his place. (that's two Robins in a row, so I'd proably move this pack back). Killer Croc seems like a lesser Bat-villain... ah, forget it. You can stay. EDIT: Changed my mind. I want a new, better, browner Man-Bat. Back to the swamp for you, Croc.

The 2nd- worst 'mate pairing (after Batman/OMAC) is Green Arrow/Deathstroke. These characters have no real history together; what's worse, both have much more logical counterparts. So I'm bumping Deathstroke, and putting in Black Canary.

WAVE 4:

Okay Bane, I don't think you've ever even met Batgirl, and I don't like you, so you're gone. I'm moving Nightwing up and dropping him in here (perhaps you can guess whom will now be with Starfire?).

I would loose Steel and the Cyborg in a heartbeat, but I realize that I'm probably in the minority, so they can stay.

The Spectre replaces Deadman with Dr. Fate. Those two have much more history together, and Deadman's just not a great 'mate. I'm afraid he doesn't return.

Edited April 29, 2008 by hellpop

[hellpop]

WAVE 5:

I'm going to take the bold step and drop Mary Marvel for Black Adam. There's a couple reasons for this: I think it's a more natural pair, and I hate the way the two red costumed characters look together. If I were a MOC collector, this would drive me nuts. Since I want the whole Marvel Family, I will put Black Adam here and plan to put Mary and Junior together later (unfortunately, I don't know that this is going to happen).

And Ma Hunkel... sigh. It's so cool that they made you, but you may be the most unnecessary DCD 'mate of all. Sorry. Your spot will be taken by Zatanna, in her fishnets. The Perez costume (with the long sleeves and the roach on her head) may be more appropriate, but this is the definitive Zatanna outfit.

WAVE 6:

One easy one: BD Wonder Woman is replaced by Wonder Girl. This helps fill out the New Teen Titans.

Really tough choice with Blackhawk and Sgt. Rock. I really love this set, but they stick out like a sore thumb next to the rest of the DC 'mates. I'm afraid they're gone. Their replacements: The Atom and Adam Strange, the two most important remaining Silver Age characters.

[hellpop]

WAVE 7:

This is probably the best wave DCD released in terms of character selection. Deathstroke is dropped in here with Starfire for Nightwing (the fact that Nightwing never wore that costume while connected to Starfire kinda bugs me. I think this pairing works better). Some may dislike Classic Batman, but not me. I think he looks great, particularly with pixie boots Robin and Batgirl. He stays.

And then there's Ambush Bug. I really love this figure (heck, I really love Ambush Bug!). But is he a necessary 'mate? ...Probably not. Also, the fact that he has no connection to Lobo (other then both being created by Keith Giffin) doesn't help his cause. Howevver, there's not a more natural mate for Lobo worth doing 9and I'm not dumping Lobo, since he may be the best 'mate of all). My solution? Animal Man, whom he hung out with in 52. Though I could easily be persuaded to keep the Bug.

Wave 8:

And this is the worst wave DCD has done/ is doing. It's really a mess. Cyborg and Raven only make sense if you're doing the other Titans (of which I've at least added another, Wonder Girl). I guess they can stay, but I'm keeping my eye on them. Sinestro is the only really necessary 'mate in the wave; he stays, and is now joined by Kyle Rayner. It's tragic, since Salaak is so cool, but I'm afraid he's just not as important as Kyle (and I don't even like the guy).

So we come to the dogs: Question/Batwoman and Red Son Superman/Wonder Woman. even before the cancellation these seemed like odd choices; now they actually make me angry. I badly want the Question, but not the lame new Montoya Question; she's out, Vic Sage is in. He'll be joined by his Charlton running buddy Captain Atom (a strong case could be made for the Huntress here, but I just like CA better).

The Red Son pack is replaced by some personal favorites: Mr. Miracle and Big Barda. I'm sure we all have our personal favorites we'd like in this spot; these are mine.

So there you have it; my reimagined DC Direct Minimates. It's hardly complete, and I could certainly use one more wave (okay, two more waves, and maybe a few box sets for good measure) to really fill things out. Please note that I tried to avoid the C3 'mates that are pretty widely available, which is why Catwoman and Darkseid aren't here (although Nightwing still is...hmmm...).

[TBT!]

Don't take this personally...

I completely dissagree with about 80% your changes... most of them don't make the lines any better they just pander to your personal tastes, heck you are stripping duplicates of everyone but adding an extra robin?

No history between Deathstroke and GA are you kidding me? but you are prepared to link Lobo and Animal man based on 52?

About the only change I'd agree with is swapping out M.Marvel for Black Adam.

T.

[ARE-JAY]

I must say that was a really good read with very good suggestions as well. I think those character selections would have happened if the line was only planned for 8 waves since the beginning. But as almost everyone else, I had hoped the line would last as Marvel is, as I'm sure DC did, hence the the slow trickling of the big name heroes.

PS. Count me in as one of the people that want Huntress lol

Are-Jay

[hellpop]

Don't take this personally...

I completely dissagree with about 80% your changes... most of them don't make the lines any better they just pander to your personal tastes, heck you are stripping duplicates of everyone but adding an extra robin?

No history between Deathstroke and GA are you kidding me? but you are prepared to link Lobo and Animal man based on 52?

About the only change I'd agree with is swapping out M.Marvel for Black Adam.

T.

The only "history" between Green Arrow and Deathstroke is in Identity Crisis. Can you really say that this GA's connection to Black Canary, or Deathstroke's connection to the Teen Titans?

The 2nd Robin is debatable, but since Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are different characters I think it's justified. Plus, Modern Robin goes with Modern Batman. However, I could easily see subbing the Huntress in this spot, which would give you Huntress/ Man-Bat. Not bad.

I admitted that the Lobo/ Animal Man pairing is marginal at best. As I said, no one wroth making goes with Lobo any better (though you can certainly offer suggestions).

Most of my changes are based on adding characters that THE MAJORITY of Minimate collectors feel are missing from the line, based on the "one more wave" thread here and the online poll. Some of these are not "personal favorites", nor did I only dump characters I don't like. Did you actually read the posts?

[TBT!]

The only "history" between Green Arrow and Deathstroke is in Identity Crisis. Can you really say that this GA's connection to Black Canary, or Deathstroke's connection to the Teen Titans?

The 2nd Robin is debatable, but since Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are different characters I think it's justified. Plus, Modern Robin goes with Modern Batman. However, I could easily see subbing the Huntress in this spot, which would give you Huntress/ Man-Bat. Not bad.

I admitted that the Lobo/ Animal Man pairing is marginal at best. As I said, no one wroth making goes with Lobo any better (though you can certainly offer suggestions).

Most of my changes are based on adding characters that THE MAJORITY of Minimate collectors feel are missing from the line, based on the "one more wave" thread here and the online poll. Some of these are not "personal favorites", nor did I only dump characters I don't like. Did you actually read the posts?

Don't start the 'did you actually read the post' shit with me, you opened it up for discussion and I dissagreed, if you didn't want opinions then why start the thread?

I think that you aren't taking into account the timing of these sets, for example we'd just gotten over infinite crisis and OMAC was a hugely relevant character at that time, so makes sense to pair with modern Batman.

GA & Deathstroke have way more in common than Identity crisis... the 1YL storylines for starters, there are a host of others, I don't have time to find them right now, but I guess we'll have to agree to dissagree there.

More than one robin is a stupid idea considering the amount of other people that are being left off the list, no matter how you look at it.

As for your choices matching those that others feel are missing... go look at the most wanted 10 DC mates thread...

As I said at the start of my last post, don't take it personally I just disagree with your choices.

T.

[TM2 Dinobot]

I also don't like some of your linups. they just don't make sense, and you're cutting essential characters. Though the biggest change i would make would be to pour on the JLU/Timm style characters. I'd rather have a TSA style Ivy than a comic version. Same with Freeze. Same with a lot of them in fact. But those two stand out majorly. We also need Batman Beyond, and that just doesn't fly in comic style. Batgirl from Teh Batmans also. Timm style Brainiach.

Oh, and no more 2.5" mates either.

*ducks and covers*

[drgnrbrn316]

TBT and Dinobot agree?! I think I need to lie down.

[TBT!]

TBT and Dinobot agree?! I think I need to lie down.

Actually I don't agree with his choices either... but if I posted that i'd just seem like I'm being contrary

T.

[murderofcrows]

Yea, sorry Hellpop...but I agree with TBT

For YOU this is a good list, but when I read it, it didn't do much for me, and I didn't think...yep THIS would have saved the line.

The truth of the matter is, we could ALL come up with different waves, and it still might not have saved the line. We all have our favorites, and no matter how you slice it...some of the figures appealed to someone and some never will .

[Fo Shizzle]

In TBT's defense if you read Hellpop's posts very closely, every few sentences you will see alot of "I thought", "I want", and my personal favorite is at the end "my reimagined ". So it would seem that you came up with it all on your own and it does not seem like you reference the prior thread. And don't take offense I just made on observation......

Plus I too want a Huntress....

Edited April 29, 2008 by Fo Shizzle

[hellpop]

The only "history" between Green Arrow and Deathstroke is in Identity Crisis. Can you really say that this GA's connection to Black Canary, or Deathstroke's connection to the Teen Titans?

The 2nd Robin is debatable, but since Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are different characters I think it's justified. Plus, Modern Robin goes with Modern Batman. However, I could easily see subbing the Huntress in this spot, which would give you Huntress/ Man-Bat. Not bad.

I admitted that the Lobo/ Animal Man pairing is marginal at best. As I said, no one wroth making goes with Lobo any better (though you can certainly offer suggestions).

Most of my changes are based on adding characters that THE MAJORITY of Minimate collectors feel are missing from the line, based on the "one more wave" thread here and the online poll. Some of these are not "personal favorites", nor did I only dump characters I don't like. Did you actually read the posts?

Don't start the 'did you actually read the post' shit with me, you opened it up for discussion and I dissagreed, if you didn't want opinions then why start the thread?

I think that you aren't taking into account the timing of these sets, for example we'd just gotten over infinite crisis and OMAC was a hugely relevant character at that time, so makes sense to pair with modern Batman.

GA & Deathstroke have way more in common than Identity crisis... the 1YL storylines for starters, there are a host of others, I don't have time to find them right now, but I guess we'll have to agree to dissagree there.

More than one robin is a stupid idea considering the amount of other people that are being left off the list, no matter how you look at it.

As for your choices matching those that others feel are missing... go look at the most wanted 10 DC mates thread...

As I said at the start of my last post, don't take it personally I just disagree with your choices.

T.

All I meant by "did you read the posts?" is that I thought I already explained several of your criticisms, such as that these are not all "my favorites". Didn't mean it to sound rude; that's why I put the wink!

Looking through the Most Wanted Mates thread, I see Martian Manhunter... Black Canary... Zatanna... Kyle Rayner... all listed frequently. Sure, some of these are personal preferences. I know a lot of you like Bane. But that's...y'know... a personal preference....

I also tried to build this with the idea of filling out teams as much as possible, which is why I added so many JLA members. I also think that the Bat-Villains look incomplete without Two-Face. So there you go.

Don't mind the discussion at all, that's why I posted this. Don't worry, I didn't take it personally. I'd love for everyone to do this themselves.

But you're dead wrong about Green Arrow and Deathstroke.

Yea, sorry Hellpop...but I agree with TBT

For YOU this is a good list, but when I read it, it didn't do much for me, and I didn't think...yep THIS would have saved the line.

The truth of the matter is, we could ALL come up with different waves, and it still might not have saved the line. We all have our favorites, and no matter how you slice it...some of the figures appealed to someone and some never will .

I'm not suggesting that this would have "saved" the DCD 'mates, only that this would have left fewer glaring holes in the line (and lineups). Heck, if I wanted to "save" DC mates, I would certainly not eliminate the battle damaged versions of their most iconic characters; I probably would have added more.

[The Avenger]

I'm perfectly happy with what they gave us. If I'd been in charge, I probably would have replaced Ma Hunkle, Battle Damage figures, Mary Marvel, and the Red Son 2 pack, but overall I just don't think they gave the line long enough to give us everyone we need, even if you do remove cool characters like Braniac 13, Croc, and Omac from the line-up.

And while I do think its nice to get themed 2 packs, random pairings (which DCD ironically did very little if any) serve a great fan purpose of getting star characters, aswell as serve business needs, someone may only like Batman characters, in order to get Nightwing, they'll need to pick up Starfire too.

[Jatta Pake]

The original release was perfect in my opinion. I love the obscure characters. I just wish it didn't stop to "rest". I don't care about the feasibility or manufacturing cost or whatever. I'm a collector/consumer not a producer.

I'm fine if they "redo" the DC Minimates line when it returns from "resting". I wouldn't mind the inclusion of more Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, in future waves if I can also get other more obscure DC characters. It allows new people to join the hobby without shelling out a fortune for the favorite heavy hitters.

Just no full redos of characters. Lex Luther most be in his first appearance outfit, Brainiac must be Silver Age, and Superman must be different (even if only slightly).

[Trekker 42]

The only glaring problem I see is the inclusion of Man Bat. Why Man Bat? You were just complaning about how minor Croc is, but you put in someone just as small instead. The Batman rogues gallery is indeed incomplete without the most honorable and interesting Mr. Freeze. I believe we can do without the mutated Bat-like freak.

Other than that, and the fact that I've never heard of you last two choices, I see no real problem with your lineup.

Of course, I don't know DC very well.

Love the Ocean Master/Black Manta switch though.

[Big Ape]

In a 'this is how I'd fill out 8 waves' not a 'this would've saved the line' manner, these are my changes:

wave 1: Omac for Mr. Freeze, Star Sapphire for Sinestro

wave 2: Brainiac for 80's Brainiac

wave 3: Ocean Master for Black Manta, battle damaged Batman for Ras Al Ghul

wave 4: Cyborg Superman for Doomsday, Golden Age Flash for Martian Manhunter & Wildcat for Darkseid

wave 5: Mary for Red Tornado, Red Tornado for modern Robin & Ma Hunkel for Two-Face, Guy Gardner for John Stewart

wave 6: Battle damaged Wonder Woman for Solomon Grundy, Stargirl for Scarecrow and STRIPE for Com. Gordon

wave 7: Ambush Bug for Guy Gardner

wave 8: Sinestro for Kyle Rayner & Salaak for Parallax, Question for Beast Boy & Batwoman for Wonder Girl, Red Son Superman for Alfred & RS Wonder Woman for Poison Ivy

[TBT!]

In a 'this is how I'd fill out 8 waves' not a 'this would've saved the line' manner, these are my changes:

wave 1: Omac for Mr. Freeze, Star Sapphire for Sinestro

wave 2: Brainiac for 80's Brainiac

wave 3: Ocean Master for Black Manta, battle damaged Batman for Ras Al Ghul

wave 4: Cyborg Superman for Doomsday, Golden Age Flash for Martian Manhunter & Wildcat for Darkseid

wave 5: Mary for Red Tornado, Red Tornado for modern Robin & Ma Hunkel for Two-Face, Guy Gardner for John Stewart

wave 6: Battle damaged Wonder Woman for Solomon Grundy, Stargirl for Scarecrow and STRIPE for Com. Gordon

wave 7: Ambush Bug for Guy Gardner

wave 8: Sinestro for Kyle Rayner & Salaak for Parallax, Question for Beast Boy & Batwoman for Wonder Girl, Red Son Superman for Alfred & RS Wonder Woman for Poison Ivy

Heh someone likes their GL's!

But even with those changes you don't have Alan Scott. Also we've already had Jon Stewart... perhaps that answers itself then?

T.

[karamazov80]

Obviously, we should have had the lesser known JSA and Teen Titans characters before getting anyone else. JL-who? Big 10-packs with Golden Age Sandman, Miss America, Johnny Thunder w/Thunderbolt, Earth 2 Superman, etc. in the former, and Aqualad, Speedy, Joker's Daughter, Mal, etc. in the latter. These would be the most popular Minimates of all time. People who had never bought action figures or comic-related memorabilia in their lives would run out to the comic shop and buy up all of them in sight. There would be rioting in the streets and brother would shoot brother just to get a hold of one more pack, for his "fix." It would be glorious!

[drgnrbrn316]

If I redid the line, I would toss aside some of those obscure characters like "Superman", "Batman", and "Wonder Woman" who nobody has ever heard of and toss in some more A-listers like Spider-Man, the Lone Ranger, Leonardo, and Darth Vader. Now that DC line would rock!

[TM2 Dinobot]

If I redid the line, I would toss aside some of those obscure characters like "Superman", "Batman", and "Wonder Woman" who nobody has ever heard of and toss in some more A-listers like Spider-Man, the Lone Ranger, Leonardo, and Darth Vader. Now that DC line would rock!

QFT

I know I'm in the minority here, but I 100% disliked wave 7 and REALLY liked the verity of wave 8. So I see most people barely changing 7 and dropping 8 entirely. To me, wave 8 is the pinical of DC Minimates you've almost got 4 individual lines in one wave. There's something for everyone. Something like that might have helped from the beginning, if you had the 2 packs be a universe unto their own.

[hellpop]

The only glaring problem I see is the inclusion of Man Bat. Why Man Bat? You were just complaning about how minor Croc is, but you put in someone just as small instead. The Batman rogues gallery is indeed incomplete without the most honorable and interesting Mr. Freeze. I believe we can do without the mutated Bat-like freak.

Other than that, and the fact that I've never heard of you last two choices, I see no real problem with your lineup.

Of course, I don't know DC very well.

Love the Ocean Master/Black Manta switch though.

Man- Bat has a pretty long history and is pretty nifty visually. Of course, you could say the same for Mr. Freeze. I personally prefer Man-Bat, but I see the need... the need for Freeze.

(This also shows how terrible it was that OMAC came with Batman rather then one of his rogues. Sorry, but it's a sore subject.)

If I redid the line, I would toss aside some of those obscure characters like "Superman", "Batman", and "Wonder Woman" who nobody has ever heard of and toss in some more A-listers like Spider-Man, the Lone Ranger, Leonardo, and Darth Vader. Now that DC line would rock!

DiCaprio or DaVinci?

...Or both!?

[ramseesthegreat1]

the turtle

[hypno]

(This also shows how terrible it was that OMAC came with Batman rather then one of his rogues. Sorry, but it's a sore subject.)

But me likey the OMAC I've got 7 of them hovering around on my DC shelf terrorizing Robin, being smacked around by Superman...

My only regret is that OMAC didn't come paired with another army builder like a Manhunter robot. 7 Batmen in the fodder bin doesn't do me much good but 7 Manhunter bots, Parademons or Checkmate agents...those I could certainly use.

Edited April 30, 2008 by hypno