MisterPL Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Of course Kirk is his gold command tunic is going to be more recognizable than Kirk in a flannel shirt. That's why you make "soup kitchen Kirk" a con exclusive where Trekkies thrive instead of a mass market offering at TRU. And you could say the same about queer variations of ANY main character. Just because your average consumer might not recognize Kirk as a gangster doesn't mean it shouldn't be made, especially if you're catering to established Trekkies. Otherwise there's no sense in half the figures in the Marvel line. Let's face it; beyond Spidey, a few X-Men, and the founding members of The Avengers, the same consumers won't be able to recognize a character like Fantomex or Boomer. Even after they read the packaging they're more likely to be unfamiliar with those Marvel characters than main characters like Kirk or Picard. Provided it lasts that long, Star Trek is the kind of line that demands "Best of" waves, series that allow new collectors to jump on board at any point and buy the most popular characters. I'm tempted to suggest that any such future waves focus on bridge crews from each show and a signature enemy (IE - TNG cast with Q) but I know everyone has their own ideas of whay "most popular characters" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkerbean Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I could use a hand in the UK getting a toys r us set thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross-Junkie Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Went to my TRU today, and it looks like the same pack-out that everyone else listed. My store got in three cases and they were almost all sold out. I was able to pick up Kirk/Khan, Picard/Hugh, and Janeway/7 of 9. They were completely out of Sisko figures, which struck me as a little wierd (seeing as his little vest uniform isn't that cool), who knows, maybe it's the Cardassian Army Builder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycrumb Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 You're preaching to the choir here, MisterPL. Unfortunately, Zach does have a point. I really, really want 2 2-packs of Kirk & Spock based on City on the Edge of Forever and especially A Piece of the Action. What happens when you take just Kirk's head off any TOS minimate - without the uniform, he's not very recognizable as Kirk (if at all!). Without the nose, and at such a small scale, it's hard to get a good likeness. DST (understandably) wants the figures to pop out at customers browsing in the stores. We are the faithful, and we know what's upcoming and we're already sold on these before they even get released! They need the regular folks to buy in as well. And civilian clothing isn't going to accomplish that to the same level. Sadly, we are talking about 40+ year old single episodes. COTEOF civilian clothing isn't going to make the most visually compelling toys either. I still think APOTA Gangster suits 2-pack is a slam dunk because they are still action-oriented and visually interesting, but Zach disagrees with me (and I'm okay with that). I can still think of a ton of more interesting TOS designs that should come first. Having been to the Las Vegas Trek conventions in the past 2 years, they are abysmal in terms of their dealers room. Maybe a convention exclusive can do well, but who knows? SDCC would have been better, and that didn't happen this year. So yeah, I'd love to see convention exclusive packs, but it sounds like it's been an uphill battle just getting the iconic looks back into the market, so I can't fault DST for shooting down single episode based looks, especially civilian clothing. Unless a retailer comes to the table specifically looking for Trek exclusives, I think we're limited to just the LCS & TRU wave(s). Having TRU on board is a godsend for this line! All that said, I still plan to customize these looks for myself at some point. BUT I would love DST if whenever they do a Dr McCoy minimate, it has a reversible head with his crazed "bath salt face" look from COTEOF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I see what you guys are saying about putting the variations in convention exclusive sets. I missed that in your other post, MisterPL, my bad. I guess my thing is that I don't want nonrecognizable civvie variations taking up a place where we could otherwise get a new character in uniform. Anyway, I tried a local TRU at lunch, but they had nothing. Strangely, the lady I asked for assistance refused to check the computer to see if they had any in stock. "Everything's on the floor. If we had them, they would be out. Probably on the Star Wars aisle." I miss the days when all Minimates were grouped together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) FYI, I am not in line planning, I just know what has done well and what has not done well. I may not know the detailed breakdown of Trek fandom, their likes and dislikes, but I know this: I desperately want a Kirk in his gangster outfit. I have watched and read the novelization of every episode of the original series. I have not seen the new Trek movie. LOTS of people DID see the new movie. Kirk and Spock are in the new movie. Kirk and Spock do not dress like gangster in the new movie. Casual and newly minted Star Trek fans may not recognize Kirk in a gangster outfit. Con exclusives are not always obscure characters. Con exclusives are not always bought by collectors. Not all con attendees like Star Trek. Not all Star Trek fans buy Minimates. Not all Star Trek fans like TOS. I have never seen a cosplayer dressed like Gangster Kirk, probably because he'd have to keep explaining his costume to people. Not everybody has an affinity for the 1930s. Not everybody is trying to complete a Hammerhead custom. I was debating the merits of a hypothetical, not defining our policy. Consider it action figure theory. If you want a more definitive answer, Ask DST. And I think superheroes like a Boomer are a bad comparison. Boomer wears a superhero outfit, so she'd be like a minor character in a Trek uniform. Ensign Ro or the older TNG doctor. Kirk in hobo clothes is like Namor, in hobo clothes. Or Reed Richards in a suit. Now, if Kirk CAME with hobo clothes... Edited June 13, 2013 by DSTZach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Kirk and Spock do not dress like gangster in the new movie.Well, scratch one set of plans for going to see this movie this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycrumb Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Zach, I'm still hoping to hear the story behind that Pike in the display case at C2E2! And I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not *demanding* a Gangster Kirk & Spock. I'd love to get them, obviously. If we get to wave 6 or up, I hope we see it by then But if we continue getting refreshes on Kirk & Spock, I just hope it's more visually interesting versions, instead of the "Bread & Circuses" dull grey outfit we got in the past. I think Kirk as a Romulan is more toyetic than Gangster Kirk, and I'd still love to one day get them all. Again, just wishlisting, not demanding As long as you guys keep making Star Trek minimates AND keep your foot in the door at TRU with them, I'll support whatever you guys need to do to keep the line going. Star Trek is going to be a very long itch to scratch, so every release is going to be pretty much golden to me. But in all seriousness, avoid STTMP! I like my Decker & Ilyia, but I don't think they helped the line and I'm in no hurry to complete that movie's lineup at all. Honestly, I'm just thrilled you guys came back to Trek minimates. I hope DST can keep it going for awhile long after the current movie is forgotten. Years ago I went through all the TOS episodes looking for designs I wanted to customize into Minimates. Outside of a few main crew variations and aliens, there's not a lot of really great stuff left untouched. So many guest stars had boring outfits, and not every crew variation is interesting. (Uhura wears a yellow uniform for one episode, but it's a boring variation!) The only things I truly want from TOS's rebirth is a TOS Romulan (I'll take every variation I can get!) and a Tholian Web space suit. Everything else will be delicious gravy! Otherwise, my main focus is TNG & DS9, but I'm still buying everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Clearly my detractors are getting hung up on the Gangster Kirk analogy. This could just as easily be about "All Good Things..." Picard or Phonics-killer Deadpool or Peter Parker. Minimates aren't sold headless. (Not intentionally anyway.) Minimates are sold in packaging. Decent packaging does a good job of displaying the brand (eg. Star Trek, Marvel) and describing the specific product (Gangster Kirk, Phonics-killer Deadpool). DST has good packaging. Even people who can't read can recognize a logo but even most Trekkies are literate. Conventions attended by fans are a better place to market obscure variations of popular characters than mass market retailers. (Unless your corporate buyer happens to be a huge fan of that specific product and has the influence to convince the superiors to give it a chance.) And I think superheroes like a Boomer are a bad comparison. Boomer wears a superhero outfit, so she'd be like a minor character in a Trek uniform. Ensign Ro or the older TNG doctor. Kirk in hobo clothes is like Namor, in hobo clothes. Or Reed Richards in a suit. Now, if Kirk CAME with hobo clothes... Shenanigans. People are arguing that – with Trek – it's the costume that's recognizable, not the character. "No one would recognize Hobo Kirk," right? However the only thing that sets Boomer apart from other characters is her costume. Yes, Boomer and Ro are minor characters but when it comes to recognizing them (apparently laying on the ground loose and perhaps headless in a TRU parking lot) I'd argue that more people would recognize Ro as a character from Star Trek thanks to the Starfleet uniform than they'd know who the hell Boomer was even in the packaging. (They might recognize Boomer as an X-Man if she was wearing an X-Men uniform.) My point is that Boomer's not an obscure variation of a character. She's an obscure character, period. Kirk is not. Picard is not. Spider-Man is not. I'm not talking about marketing obscure Star Trek characters like Trelane or Morn or this guy. I'm talking about marketing obscure variants of the most popular, most recognizable Star Trek characters. These are the Spider-Mans and Wolverines of the Star Trek Universe. If nothing's keeping DST from offering Ultimate Spider-Man or Patch Wolverine, then nothing's keeping them from offering obscure variants of Trek's most popular characters. So there. And just to be clear, I have no bias here. (Well, except for that one guy I linked to.) I like all Trek and am buying all the series. I just know that names like KIRK and PICARD tend to sell more product than names like Ro or Trelane. I just don't want this line to turn into series after series of the same uniformed characters with one wave blending into the next and having a negative impact on sales. Variations on those popular characters allow the line to stay fresh. In short, what works for Marvel can work for this line. Now, about that Pike prototype... Again, just wishlisting, not demanding Oh, I'm totally demanding. On a day when DST announce a whole box of Deadpools and one of them they made up, you bet your ass I'm demanding that "City on the Edge of Forever" set for SDCC 2014. And an "All Good Things..." set for NYCC 2014. Hobos are the new black, baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycrumb Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Well, fine, if we're demanding then: TNG & DS9 crews in full! as well as Locutus, Garak, Weyoun, Rom, Nog & The Grand Nagus! TNG Romulans, TOS Romulans, Q, Tholian Web Space Suit! TNG Klingons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlecat Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Kirk in hobo clothes is like Namor, in hobo clothes. I would so buy a Namor in hobo clothes... that is all I have to contribute to this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) +1 for Namor in hobo clothes. That is the first way we saw him in the classic Silver Age. I'm not usually one for petitions, but this could be the exception. Edited June 14, 2013 by karamazov80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Katz Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Namor did that bet from Knocked Up, so Cap would pay for his rent... +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I didn't trim my beard for most of my last semester of law school. That was fun. Anyway, if we ever get a hobo Minimate, it had better come with a boxcar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsMarvel fan Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) picked up a full set today in Towson, Maryland. Seven of Nine's eyes and mouth are extremely set apart. Not sure if it was isolated to the two they had on the shelf or if all of the sevens will have features with distance. I almost missed them on the shelves too. They were somewhere near starwars and green lantern and a hodpodge of mezits keychains. Edited June 14, 2013 by MsMarvel fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBMM1 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Kirk in hobo clothes is like Namor, in hobo clothes. I would so buy a Namor in hobo clothes... that is all I have to contribute to this discussion. Just take Mandarin's IM3 beard piece, put it over an existing Namor head, shove it on to a disheveled looking body and poof, instant Hobo Namor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Just take Mandarin's IM3 beard piece, put it over an existing Namor head, shove it on to a disheveled looking body and poof, instant Hobo Namor.But quick custom hobo Namor is not the same. IT'S JUST NOT THE SAME!!!! *collapses in corner and sobs uncontrollably* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Mister PL, Nobody is saying that we will never do variations on the main characters. I'm sure we will. I just don't think we'll do them in civilian clothes. All Good Things Picard is EXACTLY like Hobo Kirk: a bearded/hat-wearing version of a character that has no beard/hat, in a nondescript outfit, from a single episode. Essentially, by doing non-uniformed variants of major characters, with no recognizable clothing or mask or pointy hairstyle, you're making civilians. The various non-uniformed Kirks and Spocks in the old Trek line were blamed for that line's failure. Heck, we just showed a Thief of Thieves set, and people are calling it the Godfather all over again. We may very well make AGT Picard, Gangster Kirk, and Hobo Spock at some point, but I think they'd represent a significant amount of faith on our part. Marvel is a totally different license, and it is not collected the same way. Phonics Killer DP is a giant robot painted to look like a popular superhero with a video game, and would do well regardless. Peter Parker is one of the three most famous alter egos in all of comic books. And Boomer is clearly dressed like a superhero -- by your logic, the Marvel logo that will sell her as part of the Marvel universe, where teams of heroes are the norm. Variations of Spidey or Wolverine are usually instantly recognizable as Spidey or Wolverine -- that's why we do them -- and can be a first Spider-Man, first Wolverine or even a first Minimate to somebody. You can't just put a Star Trek logo on ANYTHING and sell it -- we have seen proof of this. Your faith that most people will recognize Minimate Shatner is heartwarming, but saying "this is Kirk dressed like a gangster" isn't going to create a desire to own that figure in people's minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I noticed this on BBTS during their last sale. It eventually sold out, but. . .damn. http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=DMC11226&mode=retail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
force2099 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Have these been spotted in Illinois yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubya Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 picked up a full set today in Towson, Maryland. Seven of Nine's eyes and mouth are extremely set apart. Not sure if it was isolated to the two they had on the shelf or if all of the sevens will have features with distance. IMG_0670.jpg I almost missed them on the shelves too. They were somewhere near starwars and green lantern and a hodpodge of mezits keychains. I noticed this too as I was cherry-picking the case I *found at a TRU in Missouri today. Of the two, one was perfect and the other had that odd spacing of the mouth and eyes. It's amazing just how much of a difference a millimeter makes; it looked like a completely different character. I had always assumed that the face app.s were done with one tampo. I also noticed a lot of loose hands rattling around in many of the packs, but that's not really a big deal unless you're a MOC collector. Overall, I'm thrilled with these and looking forward to many more to come. Since we've given the go-ahead for "wish-listing", I'll throw my "must have" list of TOS: Romulan(s), Andorian(s), Salt Vampire, Mugato, Talosian, Harry Mudd, and I wouldn't be opposed to an updated Gorn with sculpted head, feet, hands and beefed-up bicep/thighs. It's the aliens that were really lacking for me personally in the first Trek line. Hopefully this will be rectified as well as the rest getting all their TNG, DS9, etc. desires. I'd say we're off to a good start! As for "Ganster" Kirk and Spock, I can see Zach's points but I still think this would make a wonderful future Con-exclusive. It's cosplay Kirk and Spock after all! *I would have missed these as well, if it weren't for a box full of "motion-activated" Tribbles scaring the p!ss out of me as I walked down the aisle! Lo-and-behold Trek 'mates hiding alongside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycrumb Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 The various non-uniformed Kirks and Spocks in the old Trek line were blamed for that line's failure. Heck, we just showed a Thief of Thieves set, and people are calling it the Godfather all over again. We may very well make AGT Picard, Gangster Kirk, and Hobo Spock at some point, but I think they'd represent a significant amount of faith on our part. You can't just put a Star Trek logo on ANYTHING and sell it -- we have seen proof of this. Your faith that most people will recognize Minimate Shatner is heartwarming, but saying "this is Kirk dressed like a gangster" isn't going to create a desire to own that figure in people's minds. It wasn't the non-uniformed Kirk & Spock's that led to the old line's failure. It was the constant repetition of Kirk & Spock, when we wanted more character variety, coupled with the uninteresting versions of non-uniformed K&S that we did get. Coming so soon after waves 1 & 2, collectors were not eager to get 7 new characters where 4 out of 7 were AGAIN Kirk & Spock! Couple that with one Kirk was in a boring grey outfit, and Spock was both packed with Sarek (most people didn't want 2 Sareks to get both Spocks!) AND was based on the most hated episode of TOS, "Spock's Brain". It was still a beautiful well made figure, but it already had too many strikes against it. Wave 4 was a brilliant step back in the right direction. But retailers still had tons of unsold wave 3 left over. Wave 5 was decent, but the STTMP pack did poorly as well, and wave 3 was still lingering. Plus, we went from a shotgun approach of completing the entire TOS bridge crew in 2 waves to the only 1 TNG pack in w4 and one DS9 pack in w5. So, back to wave 3. Grey shirt Kirk. The strength was he was packed with a Klingon. But what a boring toy that Kirk was! I'd really hate to think that DST thinks that wave 3 failed in part because he was unrecognizable as Kirk to the masses - no, it's because there were too many Kirk & Spocks in one wave and that was one boring ass version! Grey Kirk = Dullsville, baby! There was no "cool" factor to him, whereas even the half-blue, half-green outfit from "What Are Little Girls Made Of" would have been more visually interesting and would have "popped" off the shelf better, and even that version is at the low end of what would have been better than that grey shirt. The reason I advocate for Gangster Kirk & Spock is because together, they are very colorful, they are interesting designs, they are action-oriented with their Tommy guns, and their strength would be in being packaged together, which DST never did in the old line, K&S were always packaged seperately save the 5-pack Mirror Mirror set. But I absolutely agree with you Zach, a Gangster set should not be made right away, there are more important designs to come first. But as toys, this set does scream "fun" and "cool" to me. Hobo K&S aren't very visually interesting, and aren't very toyetic. Those versions can wait for wave 20 Sorry MisterPL, I want them too but those would be retail poison so early in the game. Even Edith Keeler is a boring toy design. As for the Thief of Thieves comparison, that's wholly unfair. AGT Picard is a boring design, but even he has more emotional resonance to more people than a brand new untried property like ToT. But I am thrilled to hear Zach talk about the future of Trek, compared to the "wait and see" after wave 1 we heard for so long. I'm more excited to see wave 2 shown at SDCC than any other property! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Why is everyone trying to figure out how to make Khan's jacket into something else? I'm more concerned with everyone's recent use of the descriptive "hot sex" to show excitement over toys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkerbean Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hot sex™ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycrumb Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Why is everyone trying to figure out how to make Khan's jacket into something else? I'm more concerned with everyone's recent use of the descriptive "hot sex" to show excitement over toys... Hot Sex is just what the groovy hip cats are saying this season, daddio! It's totally tubular, and awesome to the max! You dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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