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Tarot Witch of the Black Rose minimates


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Just to stir the pot a bit, Dino, where do you draw the line of distinction between TWBR and Witchblade, or even (dare I say it) Black Cat? All are, in varying degrees, emblems of female exploitation, if you care to interpret them as such.

And please don't take this as me calling you out or anything; I'm genuinely curious. I think the ongoing debate over women in comics as empowered heroines vs sex objects is endlessly fascinating.

Edited by Lobsterman
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To comment on Toys R' Us, they definitely carry Bioshock, Prototype, Metal Gear Solid, Watchmen, and other mature-ish merchandise. I don't think the APPEARANCE of these mini-mates is too mature, which is the big issue, not as much the source material.

Also, God of War, Dead Space (w/ a bloody variant), Mezco's Cinema of Horror, need I go on?

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...Be sure to following the link that reviews Issue 53. Boo!

Yep, quoting myself. Breakin' all the rules today. I'd like to clarify that my little 'Boo!' wasn't meant in a derogatory sense. It was merely a joke about haunted lady-bits. I'll support these Minimates because of the haunted lady-bits. :)

I'm sure not having a swastika on Red Skull's uniform was definitely a CYA thing. After what happened to Play B several years ago, it makes sense. It only takes one person with an inflated sense of moral outrage to make trouble. The swastika's pre-Nazi historical significance is not why it offends people.

What confuses me is why pentagrams are more objectionable than swastikas. I'd much rather hang out with a person wearing a pentagram than a swastika. (When I choose to go outside, that is.) Pentagram folks are much less likely to hate someone because of race. On a meta note, I'm surprised how quickly this thread was Godwin'd. :P

Why would you feel as an embarrassment to your gender when the comics fan base is largely of the female gender as well?

News to me too. I think I need to visit more Canadian LCSs. :)

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Having read through some of the links including the video, I'm all for these. They are definitely at the adult end of the scale if we're talking about the comic but the Minimates appear about as racy as the original Indiemates set in my opinion.

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I'm all for these. I like Jim Balent's artwork (T&A). These would most likely get released only to comic shops or as an exclusive somewhere. They're tame in comparison to the actual comic. I'm still waiting for some nudie minimates, DST. My minimates strip club isn't going to staff itself. ;)

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Just to stir the pot a bit, Dino, where do you draw the line of distinction between TWBR and Witchblade, or even (dare I say it) Black Cat? All are, in varying degrees, emblems of female exploitation, if you care to interpret them as such.

And please don't take this as me calling you out or anything; I'm genuinely curious. I think the ongoing debate over women in comics as empowered heroines vs sex objects is endlessly fascinating.

I've been giving this Deep Think, and I still can't come up with a plausible answer. I've written 2 letters to Top Cow regarding Witchblade. The first being the issue where Danni and what's her face tongue wrastle. The second being the one where Sarah goes in entire issue in nothing but a nittie. I'm a guy. I have problems and sometimes do guy... things. But I don't need to read stuff like that. I read comics to escape, just like most people go to movies to escape (which I don't understand at all. I'd rather think if movies) I don't need those types of things thrust upon me. So I wrote letters. Never got a response, but I still made my opinion known.

So I guess that's the difference between Witch Blade and TWBR; Witchblade is a well written, fantastic art comic book that deals with many touchy issues and occasionally crosses the line of good taste (Which my line is thin, I fully admit. You don't have to share my views). TWBR however has no taste. It doesn't go down hill, it started off in the gully. It's just a trash mag.

You asked, and that's my conclusion.

In defense of women I'd like to draw yall's attention to this article. http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/DeepThoughts/Wimmin.html

Edited by TM2 Dinobot
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I see these in the LCS and specialty chains only - First, becasue it's linked to a property that is distributes through comic stores and secondd, because this is too risque for a TRU type distribution.

TRU seems OK w/ Resident Evil & Bioshock toys and whatnot - probably because these are familiar videogame licenses - and gore & violence are already accepted as a result of the video games. . Tarot is far too sexual to be appropriate for TRU or other mainstream retailers.

Considering all the adult anime content and collectibles (you only need to check out the selections at BBTS or Entertainment Earth) - Tarot is nothing new to this distribution channel

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Ack! The prophecy has come to pass! The Minimate Multiverse has become Bizarro-World!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

Actually I was thinking the first sign of the Apocalypse. Buy them or not the choice is up to the purchaser. Are there any complete-ists that are not going to buy these? Thinking makes my brain itch.

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I'm going to buy them, then sell them at a profit to drug dealers who don't know their actual value. That way, I am taking money away from bad men while while also removing from the marketplace a set of these that small children may buy and be influenced by.

Of course, the drug dealers will have to up their sales in order to make-up for this cost, which means more teenagers getting sold and addicted to crack, along with more innocent deaths of by-standers caught in the middle of a drug related shootout. But at the end of the day, the ends justify the means.

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Here's my 2 cents... The way I see it, these Tarot minimates are a second shot at Indymates being produced. Yes, Tarot may be a strange / sensitive choice to get Indymates back into the market, but DST is gonna give them a whirl. If you like minimates and want to (potentially) see more independant comicbook minis in the future buy these. If you are put off or offended by Tarot's subject matter, then don't buy 'em. Simple! Go pick up some more Marvel mates. I for sure will pick these up, if for no more reason than I love minimates. Will I ever read the Tarot comic book? Probably not. But I will support the production of diverse categories of minimate licenses be they considered G, PG, R or X rated.

Edited by MINI_MYTE
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Are there any complete-ists that are not going to buy these?

Yes, there are. I have every 2 inch mate ever sold (I don't count promos), but will not buy these so I suppose I count.

That's alot of figures GH. I almost have completed my Marvel collection. I have a few of the DC and I don't have the Indie Mates but I am looking forward to these coming out.

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I'll be buying them but I do have reservations about them. It's not the Minimates that are the problem ,after all we are talking about a few bits of plastic, it's the comic. Being the oldest guy here gives me no special right to say what is right or wrong but it does give me a certain perspective of 'where things go if you don't say "No" ' I have absolutely no problem with the contents but the witchcraft/tarot shite was enough to endure in the recent Captain Britain comic run.......it's just not for me . If these are bits of plastic painted as hookers then I'm happy with that but I'm not sure whether a young teenager's parents would ......maybe I'm wrong.

I hope that these sell well enough for me to pre-order my adult collectable version of the Red Skull & Zemo ,not because I admire Nazis & their ridiculous paraphernalia, Sunfire & the Indie Minimate Kabuki seemed to have gotten away with their 'Rising Sun' costumes . <_<

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I hope that these sell well enough for me to pre-order my adult collectable version of the Red Skull & Zemo ,not because I admire Nazis & their ridiculous paraphernalia, Sunfire & the Indie Minimate Kabuki seemed to have gotten away with their 'Rising Sun' costumes . <_<

For a variety of reasons the Japanese aren't perceived as as offensive as the Nazi's. It's not like the Japanese were angels over there in Asia, they were rounding up enemies into camps and killing them with the worst of them. They were performing evil medical experiments, creative tortures, and all manner of evil. But their actions didn't get the press coverage the Nazi's got during the war, and post war... well... The western world felt guilty about the tactically sound decision to drop the bombs on them, so Japanese war crimes were soft pedaled since. (not wanting to start a debate on the ethics of the atom bomb, but it was the tactically sound decision) It makes one wonder if we'd had a bomb to drop on Germany, would we view Nazi's differently as well?

You can now return to your discussion of whether it's the soft porn aspect of theses mates source material is worse than the witchcraft/tarot aspects. Although why that end of things is causing a stir, yet I don't recall anyone making similar arguments against magic wielders like Dr. Strange, Dr. Fate, or the recent Brother Voodoo, or even the Mephisto mate. Apparently some witchcraft/sorcery and worshiped devils are okay some places and offensive in others depending on what you're wearing.

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The way I see it, part of the reason why these particular minimates' source material is becoming such a sensitive issue may have to do with the unfortunate implications wrought by the very specific mashup of the male gaze gone berserk (as Dinobot pointed out) and the "demonization" of anything remotely related to the occult (as BHM mentioned). It was probably easy for us to let slide the random fictional wizards and superheroes in skintight suits we see in regular comics everyday, but now we're dealing with even-racier-than-usual depictions of women bedecked against the backdrop of a subculture that's misunderstood and even discriminated against in real life. And then there's the source material's other little, erm, idiosyncracies.

I'm probably of a like mind to BHM in that I would buy dang near anything and everything Minimate; I like these mates because I genuinely find their concept and character design very intriguing and it would make a pretty funny creative exercise to have them interact with the rest of the Miniverse. (No, not that way you pervs.)

I guess it helps that I'm not too nonplussed by the taboo aspects of the source material that I'm not that invested in how morally objectionable these mates might be. However I recognize that I'm not the only prospective audience for them, and I'm probably in the minority as far as not being unimpressed with them goes. I only hope DST can still make these happen and find a way to sidestep the "issues" surrounding their content.

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Out of curiosity GH, why not?

I can sum it all up in three points:

1) The overall subject matter in the comic is not agreeable with me.

2) Until DST announced the Tarot statue, I had never even heard of the comic. I have bought other Minimates of movies/comics that I had never read, but I was at least familiar with the properties. I could overlook this, but point number one negates any interest I would have in these.

3) My Minimates are frequently shared with my sons, ages 9 & 2, and these just aren't appropriate for them.

Draw your own conclusions on my reasoning, but I for one hope that Minimates don't cross this line again.

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Strangely enough I agree with Groundhog & understand his stance completely :ohmy:

My analogy with the Red Skull is not coming across as well as I'd intended,I'll try again.

For political correctness that pleases (whom?) we have a censored Red Skull Minimate yet we are now to be blessed with characters from a soft-porn comic. It's OK to have a Nazi character whose existence is personified by a 'Totenkompf' sat on the shoulders of an SS uniform but.......you can't have a swastika :lol:

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Are there any complete-ists that are not going to buy these? Thinking makes my brain itch.

Me. I've got 90% of, well, everything. I just can't swallow these. I'm going to vote with my dollars and say "No, DST, this is NOT where I want my favorite toy line to go." And if GH and I are the only ones to do that, tis fine. 2 votes are better than none.

Mentioning Japan real quickly, not only did they commit similar atrocities that were just as bad of the Nazis (And communists. and Pol Pot. And Nebuchadnezzar. It's nothing new, people.) but they were doing it for a good 6 years before Germany. For Asia World War II actually started in 1933.

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I'm going to vote with my dollars and say "No, DST, this is NOT where I want my favorite toy line to go." And if GH and I are the only ones to do that

Are you kidding?! From the looks of things every other boardie here is slowly getting rubbed the wrong way by this set now. I would in fact be very surprised if you guys really were the only ones to end up boycotting these out of principle. At this rate it'll probably be only the Tarot fans, industrious customizers and really, really sick puppies brave collectors (:whistling:) who'll even muster the guts to ask their LCSs to get these in.

And to be fair I guess if DST came out with a set of Minimates that grossly objectified men then I'd probably be deathly disturbed and offended too... of course given what I've read so far about Skeleton Man I think DST may already be 1/4ths of the way there.

On the other hand... I hate to sound crass (and I can't believe I'm saying this) but we're still arguing over an as-of-yet-pending set of plastic though. And this isn't just DST taking a major risk, this is DST straining our conceptions of who Minimates are really for. :unsure:

That's why I think I didn't really get my meaning across when I started the "for kids or for grownups?" poll: There really is a lot of baggage that comes with whichever target audience Minimates are really aiming for, people just don't get what that baggage really means! If you really and truly accept that Minimates are literally for all ages then by that definition you should have already understood that Minimates literally are free for anyone who gets their hands on them, unfamiliarity with source material be damned! However if in fact you expect DST to actually carry some modicum of responsibility over what kind of people actually buy their product and who they're directing it to then you shouldn't be saying that Minimates are for all ages! You should have voted "Adults only" and acknowledged that a pinch of salt must be taken with every choice of Minimate license and that you can't expect every Minimate ever made to be acceptable for kids. "For all ages" means that you can give a ten-year-old a Tarot minimate without any ethical scruples whatsoever; if you in fact DON'T believe this then you in fact DON'T believe that Minimates are for all ages.

...

... Jiminy Cricket, this is one crazy thread. We're toeing the boundary of the "no religion and politics" rule AND I'm actually frothing at the mouth over a semantic issue. That's supposed to only happen at school! :blink:

You know what, I think I'm gonna try and bow out of this discussion now before I say something else really moronic.

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