Video Game Discussion

[TBT!]

Like I said when I started, and for the record, I'm quite comfortable in the Minority on this one! Maybe it partly because of my Faith or partly because now I'm a father, but you start to notice things in life. I used Titanic as a simple example, but I understand your point to Timbo. It was just a simple, non-sexual shot, so maybe it wasn't a fair comparission. What I was trying to explain though, is there was no point to it. If they would have left the boobs out of the movie no one would have cared. It isn't like you would have walked out and said, "Dang, the movie was OK but it really needed some boobs!" That's the same way I feel about games. I have never finished a game and said to someone, "Man, it's a good game, but where are the Drugs and the Boobs!?!"

The whole reason I brought the point up is for the simple fact that GTA is probably one of the best games (from a design standpoint) ever made. Sure, you say it wouldn't sell as many copies if they "candy coated it". However, I disagree completely. Take out the language, the sex, the hookers, the drugs, and tone down the violence. This game would then get a Teen rating and you would see sales sore...guaranteed! However, that will never happen, and I will never buy the game and I'm perfectly happy with that. I just think that we've allowed games like this to dominate a market because we in secret enjoy the darkness of this world. I can understand a War game (CoD4 for instance) where you are fighting a war. But I don't need a game to help me fantize about throwing someone out of a car, beating them sensless and stealing that car. Or parking on a back road and paying a hooker for a night of fun. It is just completely beyond my comprehension how a normal, decent human can take part in events like that and think they are just having a good time. I promise you if you walked in on your child and some of the neighborhood kids pretended to be hookers or pretending to beat each other to death you would have a problem with it. Although, you will pay money to watch it in your living room. Again, to each is own, but I don't understand. neo

Your last sentence sums it up nicely... you don't understand, it seems that you have a twisted and puritanical view of the world. I'm not exactly mr 'worldly pimpking' but there is something very contradictory in your viewpoint of the world.

Video games are about escapism and yes the 'darker side of life' has an appeal, no one expects to do that stuff in real life but it's fun to let your hair down and do "bad things" without hurting anyone. just because I can do it in game doesn't make me think... yeah I'm going to go out and kill a hooker now!

If you don't know the difference then that is your issue not the everyone else's.

I'm still amused that games where you kill someone like call of duty seem fine to you but GTA isn't. Killing someone is a great example of something that we can't do in the real world but can do in pretty much every videogame. If everyone who bought call of duty 4 went out and killed one person we'd have genocide... did that happen no, that's because people can separate fantasy from reality.

Your line about kids playing hookers etc is moot for two reasons, one you shouldn't be giving this game to your kids and two if they'd played mario smash bros instead they'd be playing smack each other around, it's the way kids are, it's your job to let them see the world in small pieces so they can digest it without being overwhelmed and to be a moral compass not to stop them from living life.

I'm also curious how you see other media, film, books, plays or even art, people have been painting nudes or scenes of fighting/death since we started drawing on cave walls. Lets look at Shakesphere and the stuff that happened in some of his plays, are you telling me we should go back and rewrite those too?

You never answer my question directly, Do you think everyone else should have stuff censored because you personally don't want to see it?

T.

[karamazov80]

The whole reason I brought the point up is for the simple fact that GTA is probably one of the best games (from a design standpoint) ever made. Sure, you say it wouldn't sell as many copies if they "candy coated it". However, I disagree completely. Take out the language, the sex, the hookers, the drugs, and tone down the violence. This game would then get a Teen rating and you would see sales sore...guaranteed!

Hate to interject in such a constructive argument, but I wanted to briefly note that they actually did this. It's called Simpsons: Hit and Run, and it is awesome:

http://cube.ign.com/objects/552/552250.html

The overall story, characters, and voices are from Simpsons, but the gameplay and missions are all stolen directly from GTA minus the sex, drugs, and realistic violence. Anyway, I guess that I'll let you guys get back to insulting each others' world-views. . .

[TM2 Dinobot]

You never answer my question directly, Do you think everyone else should have stuff censored because you personally don't want to see it?

Yes. It's always easier to uncover stuff than to cover it back up. If it's censored from the start, then it protects the people who don't want their kids or they themselves exposed to that stuff. People who want to be exposed to the censored stuff can always find it.

I was in Krogers the other day checking out. There was a girl of maybe 20 standing there, chatting on her phone, with a mother with a younger daughter standing behind her, and I standing behind the other. The girl was dropping F bombs about 5 a sentence. it seemed to be the only word she knew. The mother asked her very politely to stop saying that word because her daughter was there. The girl turned to the mother and said "Eff you, bitch. This is a private conversation," Which shocked the mother. I stepped in and said "It may be a private conversation but you're in a public place. You can talk however you want at home, but have some common decency for people around you," Now evidently I scared her, or said it far too loudly for her comfort, drawing the attention of everyone to her. But she hung up the phone and walked out muttering to herself.

I guess my point is what you do in the privacy of your own home. But how you obtain what you do and how it effects your life is everyone's business.

Should they ban Victoria Secret commercials from network television? I think so, yes. I don't want it in my home. If I wanted it, I'd go looking for it.

[neolego]

The whole reason I brought the point up is for the simple fact that GTA is probably one of the best games (from a design standpoint) ever made. Sure, you say it wouldn't sell as many copies if they "candy coated it". However, I disagree completely. Take out the language, the sex, the hookers, the drugs, and tone down the violence. This game would then get a Teen rating and you would see sales sore...guaranteed!

Hate to interject in such a constructive argument, but I wanted to briefly note that they actually did this. It's called Simpsons: Hit and Run, and it is awesome:

The overall story, characters, and voices are from Simpsons, but the gameplay and missions are all stolen directly from GTA minus the sex, drugs, and realistic violence. Anyway, I guess that I'll let you guys get back to insulting each others' world-views. . .

Ha, believe it or not, I did actually play that game and kinda liked it!

Now, onto Timbo. You know what, we may just need to play a private match of Call of Duty tonight if you keep on . Let me start by answering your question: No! I don't want special treatment. I was just trying to say I wish developers made half the attempt at Greatness for games accessable to all ages and not just Mature titles. We are seeing this swell in amazing games that are extreme in one way or anther. Rainbow Six Vegas-Cursing, Gears of War-Blood/Guts, Saint's Row-Drugs, Sex, etc. Now, think about what "Great" games we have for all ages. Mario Galaxy, LEGO Star Wars, Spider-Man 3. Seriously, they just don't compare to the time and effort put into those Mature games. So, I don't want them to candy coat GTA just for me, I just wish that people like myself who choose not to play those games would have some Quality attemts at the same thing. Again, Crackdown tried, but it's still really violent and has some inappropriate things, IMO.

Now, back to the Killing in CoD vs. GTA comment. It is different for a number of reasons. If there was another draft and we were called into a World War, to defend my country I would proudly wear my colors and fight and even kill for the Freedoms that I enjoy......as I would hope we all would. However, if I was taking a trip to New York I wouldn't run up to a stopped car, pull a woman out and kick her to death, jump in the car and peel off. I think it's more than separating the two. I think it's a line of morality. You would kill if you had to protect your family or your country, but you wouldn't just because a hooker ticked you off and you wanted to keep your money. That is not morally sound, just typing that feels wrong. I think that humanity as a whole is better than that and lowering ourselves to the level of people like that, paying for the experience, and actually enjoying it TO ME makes us a much darker and sinister people than I ever thought! neo

Edited April 9, 2008 by neolego

[TBT!]

You never answer my question directly, Do you think everyone else should have stuff censored because you personally don't want to see it?

Yes. It's always easier to uncover stuff than to cover it back up. If it's censored from the start, then it protects the people who don't want their kids or they themselves exposed to that stuff. People who want to be exposed to the censored stuff can always find it.

*... big entertaining but irrelevant paragraph...*

I guess my point is what you do in the privacy of your own home. But how you obtain what you do and how it effects your life is everyone's business.

Should they ban Victoria Secret commercials from network television? I think so, yes. I don't want it in my home. If I wanted it, I'd go looking for it.

No offence Dinobot but I'm going to discard this as irrelevant to the discussion, we already agree that this sort of thing shouldn't be for kids and is suitable rated and if kids get it then that's a parental issue.

It's not like the process of seeing someone buying a video game is going to upset anyone anymore than seeing them buy groceries.

The question of censorship was "should it be made", your theory of people 'finding it if they want it' is moot if it doesn't exist.

T.

[TBT!]

The whole reason I brought the point up is for the simple fact that GTA is probably one of the best games (from a design standpoint) ever made. Sure, you say it wouldn't sell as many copies if they "candy coated it". However, I disagree completely. Take out the language, the sex, the hookers, the drugs, and tone down the violence. This game would then get a Teen rating and you would see sales sore...guaranteed!

Hate to interject in such a constructive argument, but I wanted to briefly note that they actually did this. It's called Simpsons: Hit and Run, and it is awesome:

The overall story, characters, and voices are from Simpsons, but the gameplay and missions are all stolen directly from GTA minus the sex, drugs, and realistic violence. Anyway, I guess that I'll let you guys get back to insulting each others' world-views. . .

Ha, believe it or not, I did actually play that game and kinda liked it!

Now, onto Timbo. You know what, we may just need to play a private match of Call of Duty tonight if you keep on . Let me start by answering your question: No! I don't want special treatment. I was just trying to say I wish developers made half the attempt at Greatness for games accessable to all ages and not just Mature titles. We are seeing this swell in amazing games that are extreme in one way or anther. Rainbow Six Vegas-Cursing, Gears of War-Blood/Guts, Saint's Row-Drugs, Sex, etc. Now, think about what "Great" games we have for all ages. Mario Galaxy, LEGO Star Wars, Spider-Man 3. Seriously, they just don't compare to the time and effort put into those Mature games. So, I don't want them to candy coat GTA just for me, I just wish that people like myself who choose not to play those games would have some Quality attemts at the same thing. Again, Crackdown tried, but it's still really violent and has some inappropriate things, IMO.

Now, back to the Killing in CoD vs. GTA comment. It is different for a number of reasons. If there was another draft and we were called into a World War, to defend my country I would proudly wear my colors and fight and even kill for the Freedoms that I enjoy......as I would hope we all would. However, if I was taking a trip to New York I wouldn't run up to a stopped car, pull a woman out and kick her to death, jump in the car and peel off. I think it's more than separating the two. I think it's a line of morality. You would kill if you had to protect your family or your country, but you wouldn't just because a hooker ticked you off and you wanted to keep your money. That is not morally sound, just typing that feels wrong. I think that humanity as a whole is better than that and lowering ourselves to the level of people like that, paying for the experience, and actually enjoying it TO ME makes us a much darker and sinister people than I ever thought! neo

It sounds like we are much darker and sinister people than you thought, once again that's your perception at fault not reality (Reality cant be at fault because that's the base line everyone variates from.) Everyone filters reality to some extent but it seems you have your filters set up to super sensitive.

I'll be honest in that I really don't want to play mario games. I don't want the sugar coated squeaky nonsense that spoils what might be decent gameplay, In the same way I don't want to read childrens books, I'm just not that audience.

The reason they make mature games is that's because where the market is, grownups have money as a rule kids don't. If nobody bought them they wouldn't make them simple as that.

Do you really play CoD4 and think I'm killing people and it's ok but I wont steal a car in GTA because it's morally wrong? That is more worrying to me than anyone who plays CoD4 or GTA and admits it's simply for the guilty pleasure of doing something they shouldn't. You can coat it how you like but you are still getting a buzz from killing for entertainment, you're just unwilling to admit it like the rest of us.

As I say this isn't something to be taken personally, you started a debate and I'm answering as I see it.

T.

p.s. CoD4. I'm out tonight but yeah we should hook and play some time soon.

[Shanester]

Yes. It's always easier to uncover stuff than to cover it back up. If it's censored from the start, then it protects the people who don't want their kids or they themselves exposed to that stuff. People who want to be exposed to the censored stuff can always find it.

Whoa! That my friend, is twisted. Ever hear of a little movement called fascism? They would agree with that statement whole-heartedly. You know whats best for me and my children, right? You could be a new super hero protecting us sheep. I say you call yourself, Super-Book-Burner-Boy.

[Nestlé]

Personally, I don't care either way about GTA, I've [played 'em.

I understand Neo's stance, but also know how much they've contributed to video games (free bird).

I DO have to hop onto the Halo topic though.

EVERYONE has a right to dislike the game...

But Dinobot, your "review" was NOT a review.

You complain about story and gameplay... Sounds more like your "partner" is what you should be complaining about since they ruined both those for you.

How would expect to know whats going on if you skip every movie? YOu wouldn't in H1 or 2 that's for suire.

Plus, the last level in H3 is my favorite level in any game. Period.

That being said, RB reload is much more efficient once you get used tyo it.

It allows you to reload your guns independently if you want.

As for the brute technology, think of Brutes as being kind of oppressed in the earlier games. Too violent and barbaric they weren't allowed on the front lines of the battle field. When Elites got booted from the covenant the brutes took their place, and as they grew in power got to bring out more and more weapons and vehicles with blades and spikes.

And, just like the battle rifle was new technology in H2, equipment was just being developed during H3.

[neolego]

Well Timbo, we'll just have to agree to disagree and I'll let you enjoy shooting up your hookers in peace .

Allow me to commet on good ol Dinobot's review. I have to say that I loved Halo. Halo was the 1st console FPS that I ever played and one of the only ones. Me and my brother played and beat Halo 1 and 2 and counted down the days until 3 was released. To turn on Halo 3, espcially for fans of the series, and have the reaction that had is very amiss and I believe that you are in the minority. I thought the game looked good and played, just like every Halo before it, flawless. Sure, there where changes that took some getting used to, but after learning the new button layout I agree that it was better, especially the Right Button reload! Now, just for the record I don't own Halo anymore. I traded it in. Why you ask, because Call of Duty 4. It is, hands down, the best FPS I've ever played (which isn't a whole lot, but my point remains). After playing CoD I tried to go back to playing Halo and I just couldn't do it. So, while I think your review was pre-mature and less than educated, I do agree that the hype is greater than the sum of the game. But, as we've all seen today, maybe it's just me. neo

[TBT!]

Well Timbo, we'll just have to agree to disagree and I'll let you enjoy shooting up your hookers in peace .

Wow did we just have a full conversation where we totally disagreed and didn't resort to name calling?

Maybe there's hope for the human ravce yet Neo

T.

p.s. I'll shoot some hookers for you Neo, I know deep down inside you want me too!

[neolego]

Ha. Well, at least let them keep the money. Their kids might need it for their Crack addiction!

Anytime I bring something up in a discussion forum I expect it to be just that. I discussion. I'm not 10 years old and I know the world's not black and white. People are different. Some are Democrats, some are replublican, some are Straight, some are Gay, and some even enjoy shooting up hookers. It's not my place to say who is right and who is wrong. But, in the same vein, we are all part of this pop culture and things like this effect us so it's good to get it out and talk about it. Now, next time we are online together I may sneak up behind you and stab you just to make myself feel better, but I've always got your back ! neo

[HotstufflouieB]

So my 360 finally died on me today! BOOOOOO. Maybe I'll start a season in MLB The Show on PS3

[karamazov80]

So my 360 finally died on me today! BOOOOOO. Maybe I'll start a season in MLB The Show on PS3

It happens to all of us at some point

Those things, are pieces of garbage, quality-wise.

[NINTENDOwii]

So my 360 finally died on me today! BOOOOOO. Maybe I'll start a season in MLB The Show on PS3

It happens to all of us at some point

Those things, are pieces of garbage, quality-wise.

I can only agree with you on that my friend. To me it just seems that microsoft ( yeah I know I didn't capitilize the name, they suck too much to be capitilized ) dosn't give a damn about quality. I was reading a blog the other day and it was saying somthing like after the second repair you have to pay $100 to get your 360 fixed again. microsoft is just a bunch of money-hording ass-holes. Oh and about the PS3, hopefully by the end of the Summer I can pick up one along with MGS 4 and maybe GTA 4.

[Nestlé]

The blog you heard from is incorrect, as I have had mine repaired 5 times for free.

[karamazov80]

The blog you heard from is incorrect, as I have had mine repaired 5 times for free.

Wow. Five times. Way to go, Microsoft!

[Nestlé]

It's true, that means in 2 and a half years I've had 5 breakdowns, but if you go back through this thread you would know that I don't mind. Microsoft has given me piles of swag to make it up to me.

I'm still very loyal.

[TBT!]

I've had my 360 elite for about a year now and it's fine never RRoD and has only ever frozen up during network play one of twice.

I'm very happy with it...

T.

[HotstufflouieB]

I must say that my 360 was a trooper! I had that thing since launch and it finally decided to go today. I some how think its karma since I was watching The Punisher on dvd. I'm now being "punished" (couldn't resist) and I just hope I get my 360 back before GTA 4. Otherwise I'm getting it on the PS3.

[NINTENDOwii]

The blog you heard from is incorrect, as I have had mine repaired 5 times for free.

Wow. Five times. Way to go, Microsoft!

I don't care. microsoft still dosn't give a damn about quality, that's why they repaired your console 5 fucking times. (Sorry to put the "f bomb" out there but it's just get my point out) If microsoft really cared you wouldn't have to get your console repaired every couple of months. I heard you say earlier that microsoft give you all of this "free" crap for being a fanboy and keeping trust with microsoft. I know that SONY dosn't do that. But I also SURE AS HELL KNOW THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP GETTING YOU PLAYSTATION REPAIRED EVERY FEW MONTHS! The only good thing about microsoft is that if you bitch at them enough they will send you free tidbits for telling them about there problems. Also there customer support is relliable if your console breaks. If I was a head of a big store like WAL-MART (which I am thankfully not) I put a decent size sticker on every 360 box that ran through my store that says " NOW CONTAINS A 10% MORE FAILURE RATE! ENJOY SENDING YOUR BACK TO microsoft FOR REPAIRS!!!" Well that is enough for now, but count on seeing another rant like this later. *WII OUT*

Edited April 10, 2008 by NINTENDOwii

[Vash]

The blog you heard from is incorrect, as I have had mine repaired 5 times for free.

Wow. Five times. Way to go, Microsoft!

I don't care. microsoft still dosn't give a damn about quality, that's why they repaired your console 5 fucking times. (Sorry to put the "f bomb" out there but it's just get my point out) If microsoft really cared you wouldn't have to get your console repaired every couple of months. I heard you say earlier that microsoft give you all of this "free" crap for being a fanboy and keeping trust with microsoft. I know that SONY dosn't do that. But I also SURE AS HELL KNOW THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP GETTING YOU PLAYSTATION REPAIRED EVERY FEW MONTHS! The only good thing about microsoft is that if you bitch at them enough they will send you free tidbits for telling them about there problems. Also there customer support is relliable if your console breaks. If I was a head of a big store like WAL-MART (which I am thankfully not) I put a decent size sticker on every 360 box that ran through my store that says " NOW CONTAINS A 10% MORE FAILURE RATE! ENJOY SENDING YOUR BACK TO microsoft FOR REPAIRS!!!" Well that is enough for now, but count on seeing another rant like this later. *WII OUT*

go play your ps3 and your wii and quit crying about my 360..

microsoft customer support and technical support have taken wonderful care of me both times i've had to send my 360 back for repairs FOR FREE. so again please its fine that you dont like the 360 but dont bitch about it for the sake of bitching about it.. if it was half as bad as youre making it out to microsoft wouldnt be selling as many as they are. meh..

[Nestlé]

Here we go again.

Wii, I'm pretty sure you've already established your point of view on this one.

Also, it's important to know that my repairs all took place with the first generation 360s. Quality has grown considerably since then.

It's also important to note that I'm not a fan boy. I play all the systems.

You WON'T however hear me proclaiming Sony's awesomeness in customer support because when EVERYONE I KNOW'S PS2s died they wouldn't lift a finger to help.

Maybe you're too young, but when PS2 was out stores here wouldn't even accept trades on PS2s as they were too prone to breakdowns.

I would rather have a company who comes forward and says "we screwed up let me ficx that" than one that says: "You bought it, your problem."

[NINTENDOwii]

Here we go again.

,It's also important to note that I'm not a fan boy. I play all the systems.

You WON'T however hear me proclaiming Sony's awesomeness in customer support because when EVERYONE I KNOW'S PS2s died they wouldn't lift a finger to help.

I would rather have a company who comes forward and says "we screwed up let me ficx that" than one that says: "You bought it, your problem."

Yeah that is my ONE gripe with SONY, they just don't have the support system that microsoft has. But then again, Xboxes are know to break down............. *WII OUT*

[TM2 Dinobot]

Considering Sony fired all but a handfull of their reps (1 rep per every 1000 stores) and hired people like me to pick up the lack, and I had to change out broken PS3s on a weekly basis, yeah, I think Sony's got issues with both customer service AND quality control. My personal opinion, if I had to chose, I'd take the customer service over the quality control any day of the week.

But like nestle said. Age old debate that has been hashed out a billion times. Moving on.

Seriously, did any one play Indigo Prophecy? the guides aren't helping me.

[Nestlé]

Honestly, I've wanted to for awhile Dino, but I haven't. Sorry can't help ya.