Battlestar Galactica Discussion

[God Magnus]

Also

blowing Cally out the airlock was a complete surprise

... the intensity is building fast.

That made me so angry!

Than you sir were alone

my wife and I have wanted Cally gone for quite some time and loved that they didn't cope out and not kill her. The only time the character was interesting was when she popped a few caps into Boomer. On a seperate note, does this season seem to be dragging a bit and a little all over the place? I don't find myself as excited about this season compared to the past seasons for some reason/

It wasn't so much that Cally was killed than how/why it happened that made me angry. There seemed to be no real purpose other than "what does one of the new Cylons do when somebody finds out about them?" (which turned out to be way too obvious for the show's usual brand of ambiguity.) When Cally did find out I thought, "Finally, somebody knows and now they can do something interesting instead of just have secret meetings in rooms with Star Trek ship numbers and whine about it." and then she just gets killed right away? The least they could have done was have her say something to somebody. Not even something specific. Just something cryptic that could have sparked some doubt about one of them. I would have found that much more interesting than Thinly-Veiled-Reluctant-Jesus or badly written government infighting scenes that don't make sense.

And the reason you're probably not as excited is because they pulled the old "now we're finally getting somewhere" gag at the end of the last season only to come back with more of the same along with fifty new tangents to follow.

[battlecat]

It wasn't so much that Cally was killed than how/why it happened that made me angry. There seemed to be no real purpose other than "what does one of the new Cylons do when somebody finds out about them?" (which turned out to be way too obvious for the show's usual brand of ambiguity.)

I don't think it showed how

*all* the new Cylons would react, just the President's assistant (can't remember her name right now), and of all the new Cylons she's the one that's gone the most nuts and quickly given up trying to maintain her humanity. If Cally had talked to her husband instead of clocking him in the head, I don't think his first reaction would have been to brutally kill her (and if he finds out one of his Cylon pals did just that, I don't think he'll be okay with it).

As for excitement over this season, I thought the first two episodes held over that level of excitement from the finale, because like God Magnus said it felt like we were getting somewhere. And we are (there's what, 17 shows left?), but this week's episode was a bit more muddled for sure (although

it was a great way to make you feel sympathy for Starbuck since she wants Earth to be just around the corner too

).

Maybe it's something to do with knowing it's ending "soon" -- I had the same lull in excitement with Lost this season, even though I felt like I should be more excited now that they're moving towards a deadline.

[captain_cbecker]

I think Cally's abrupt death was more of a device to show Tory's frame of mind... she's flirting with Tyrol, drinking and doing the nasty w/ Baltar and now kills Cally... I see the Cylon revelation, for her, being a changing experience... for the bad.

Tigh's battle may be about retaining/maintaining his identity. Tyrol seems to be in crisis mode and can't seem to decide how to cope except to brood and get stressed. Anders problems with Starbuck are keeping his identity crisis in check. But I see this being Tory's opportunity to really change her stripes and prove that the potential for a destructive personality is as equally likely as for a consttructive one (Tigh). This is going to further push the chief to the edge, and potentially could make him the personality that could swing to choose either his duty, or become destructive like the rest of the cylons.

I also think that Cally's murder will really up the ante... beside the cylon thing, now there's another dark secret that threatens the identity and security of the four Galactica Cylons.

[The_Donster]

Thanks CC, you said it better than I could have. I think if they had gone in the direction GM suggested it would have been more of the same shit, different day mentality.

[neolego]

Can someone help!! What is the first episode of Season 4??

I just finished season 3 and HOLY FRAC............not my Chief. Anyway, I'm looking on Hulu to start watching the 4th season but the 1st episode they have listed is episode 3 titled "He that Believeth in Me" and I don't want to miss the 1st 2 epsidoes. Does anyone know where I can find them??? neo

[Jad]

BSG 4.1 - He That Believeth In Me

BSG 4.2 - Six of One

BSG 4.3 - Ties That Bind

Go ahead neolego and enjoy He That Believeth In Me!

[Samwise Gamgee]

Anyway, I'm looking on Hulu to start watching the 4th season but the 1st episode they have listed is episode 3 titled "He that Believeth in Me" and I don't want to miss the 1st 2 epsidoes. Does anyone know where I can find them??? neo

The reason they have it listed as the third episode, though, is because of the TV movie Razor that was out in November. They technically count it as the first two episodes of season 4, but you could easily watch "He That Believeth in Me" without having seen Razor since it takes place during the second season.

[neolego]

Ok, I'm finally caught up thanks to Hulu.com (THE greatest site, next to Minimatemultiverse of course). I can't believe the

Cally death. Either way I'm OK, but it was a suprise.

I really can't wait to see where this season is going. I'm not very pleased with Lee's arc and hope they either make that incredibly interesting really fast or put him back in the air!

Now, Riddle Me This, BSG junkies. I'm still having a hard time following the Cylon/Human and Duplicate things. Maybe there isn't an answer, but I would really like one!

First, How Do the Cylons replace the humans? They keeps saying, "you were one all along", so does that mean they were born Cylons? Or, were just a chosen few (12) switched at birth. Or, is it like Secret Invasion, when at some point in their established life they were switched out? Or, Have they always been and just snuck into the right place at the right time? What I'm struggling with is that some Cylons (One) and Tigh are old and Six and Eight are younger and hot. Do they grow? Or have they always been what they are? If that is the case, how do Tigh and Adama have all those memories, obviously Adama would notice that Tigh hasn't aged unless of course Adama is a Cylon and then that's another story. It just seems that when a Cylon model dies, they are reborn at the same age. So, if they do age, all of their copies will age and they will just always be getting older? This isn't making sense to me!

The other issues I have, is why are their copies? And, is there a limit? We are seeing 3 Eights (Sharon, Boomer, and an Eight), We see at least 2 Sixes (Caprica, and a Six), We have seen 2 Ones (both at the table discussion). So, my point is, what is the guidelines for numbers? Is 3 the max you can have at one time or can you have as many as you want. What's stopping them from making them all alive? When you die you are downloaded, but you are only 1 or 2 or 3 so you don't have the other alive model's memories, just the one that died. This is just confusing me a lot.

So, there you have it. Someone, want to enlighten me with the One True God's word on these matters ? neo

Edited April 22, 2008 by neolego

[captain_cbecker]

Ok, I'm finally caught up thanks to Hulu.com (THE greatest site, next to Minimatemultiverse of course). I can't believe the

Cally death. Either way I'm OK, but it was a suprise.

I really can't wait to see where this season is going. I'm not very pleased with Lee's arc and hope they either make that incredibly interesting really fast or put him back in the air!

Now, Riddle Me This, BSG junkies. I'm still having a hard time following the Cylon/Human and Duplicate things. Maybe there isn't an answer, but I would really like one!

First, How Do the Cylons replace the humans? They keeps saying, "you were one all along", so does that mean they were born Cylons? Or, were just a chosen few (12) switched at birth. Or, is it like Secret Invasion, when at some point in their established life they were switched out? Or, Have they always been and just snuck into the right place at the right time? What I'm struggling with is that some Cylons (One) and Tigh are old and Six and Eight are younger and hot. Do they grow? Or have they always been what they are? If that is the case, how do Tigh and Adama have all those memories, obviously Adama would notice that Tigh hasn't aged unless of course Adama is a Cylon and then that's another story. It just seems that when a Cylon model dies, they are reborn at the same age. So, if they do age, all of their copies will age and they will just always be getting older? This isn't making sense to me!

The other issues I have, is why are their copies? And, is there a limit? We are seeing 3 Eights (Sharon, Boomer, and an Eight), We see at least 2 Sixes (Caprica, and a Six), We have seen 2 Ones (both at the table discussion). So, my point is, what is the guidelines for numbers? Is 3 the max you can have at one time or can you have as many as you want. What's stopping them from making them all alive? When you die you are downloaded, but you are only 1 or 2 or 3 so you don't have the other alive model's memories, just the one that died. This is just confusing me a lot.

So, there you have it. Someone, want to enlighten me with the One True God's word on these matters ? neo

OK.... let me see if I can help... These are my conclusions, based on what I've seen and some interviews...

As far as the origin: I'd say that they have maintained a relatively static age and were just inserted at a moment in time, or appeared.

As far as aging, i think that it is likely that they have some aging capacity, especially since we've seen Tigh at an earlier time/younger age. They are biological machines afterall. Why the difference in ages (Young & hot vs old & weathered)... as each model possesses a unique personality, I think the different appearances (gender, race, age) also delineates the models.

There doesn't seem to be a cap on numbers... at times we've seen a dozen+ Sharon's (in the basestar in the episode where she blows up the basestar and shoots Adama). We may only see a few, but you have to remember that there are whole ships filled with them and they are all over the place, bsides the ones that are immediately relevant to the story (Tigh & Company are the exception from what I understand though... only 1 copy each)

[neolego]

Ah, thanks of the help, but I'm still confused. It doesn't stop me from liking the show, in fact it's in my top 5 of all time. But I do think the inconsistancies drive me banannas!

I'm OK with the Aging thing. I still can't say I'm satisfied with the "You've Always been one" kind of statements, but that's doable.

But the copies are killing me. I don't understand why there has to be so many models living at one time. It would seem more interesting if there was just 1 character and each time that 1 cylon died they would be downloaded and come again. I forgot all about that episode with all the Sharons, but that's a great point. Is there like 12 living Eights right now all waiting around. Then, if each of them were to die, do 12 more Sharons get awaked or are all 12 downloaded into 1 new body?!?!? And you're saying that the final 5 have no copies, they are the only 1's like them?!?! That just makes it worse! I'm not trying to be pickey, because again I love the show, I'm just trying to understand!! neo

[battlecat]

Ah, thanks of the help, but I'm still confused. It doesn't stop me from liking the show, in fact it's in my top 5 of all time. But I do think the inconsistancies drive me banannas!

I'm OK with the Aging thing. I still can't say I'm satisfied with the "You've Always been one" kind of statements, but that's doable.

But the copies are killing me. I don't understand why there has to be so many models living at one time. It would seem more interesting if there was just 1 character and each time that 1 cylon died they would be downloaded and come again. I forgot all about that episode with all the Sharons, but that's a great point. Is there like 12 living Eights right now all waiting around. Then, if each of them were to die, do 12 more Sharons get awaked or are all 12 downloaded into 1 new body?!?!? And you're saying that the final 5 have no copies, they are the only 1's like them?!?! That just makes it worse! I'm not trying to be pickey, because again I love the show, I'm just trying to understand!! neo

Well even if the Cylons killed off the human Tigh at some point and replaced him with Cylon Tigh, the Cylon Tigh would still have "always been one" -- but yeah, they've never said in the show how they inserted the sleeper Cylons into the fleet. I don't know if they've ever said how long Adama's known Tigh, but the Cylons didn't have human models until sometime after they disappeared after the first war, so if he was around that far back I'm guessing he was replaced.

The thing with all the copies, is that that's how they've built their society -- thousands of (potentially) individual versions of the 7 models, spread across a fleet of base ships. We know they're potentially individual because their experiences can change them, like the sleeper Sharon

switching sides on the recent vote

or Caprica Sharon joining Galactica, etc. When one of them is killed their consciousness is transmitted to a resurrection ship and inserted into a new body, so the number of each model out there always remains consistent, which is how they could stalemate on votes (at least with the Xena Cylon away in stasis).

The final 5 don't have new bodies waiting around on a regular resurrection ship because their identities are supposed to be a secret from the other Cylons for some reason. But they could in theory have their own resurrection ship lurking around somewhere, or a ship full of final 5 copies -- but probably not. They seem to have been designed for a different purpose than the regular 7 Cylons (so aren't part of their 'society'), by whoever/whatever built and programmed the human Cylons in the first place.

Anyway, that's my impression of how all the Cylon craziness works...

Edited April 25, 2008 by battlecat

[captain_cbecker]

The thing with all the copies, is that that's how they've built their society -- thousands of (potentially) individual versions of the 7 models, spread across a fleet of base ships. We know they're potentially individual because their experiences can change them, like the sleeper Sharon

switching sides on the recent vote

or Caprica Sharon joining Galactica, etc. When one of them is killed their consciousness is transmitted to a resurrection ship and inserted into a new body, so the number of each model out there always remains consistent, which is how they could stalemate on votes (at least with the Xena Cylon away in stasis).

I'm not sure that the stalemate necessarily implies that there is always a static quantity. The Cylons seem to vote as a collective, and each model, regardless of quantity, is allocated 1 vote. In the case of season 4,

Sharon tipping the scales with her vote (that differed from the rest of the number eights) was not as much about total numbers, as much as it was that the it upset the balance and gave one side a symbolic majority by persuading her to break from "party lines".

I also think that, given the destruction of the resurrection ship in Season 2 and the fact that there is a limit on the effective range of the resurrection ship, that its possible that there have been personalities that were lost at some point. SInce there is no real information on how spontaneous new personalities are created, that it's premature to say that there is always a static quantity.

The final 5 don't have new bodies waiting around on a regular resurrection ship because their identities are supposed to be a secret from the other Cylons for some reason. But they could in theory have their own resurrection ship lurking around somewhere, or a ship full of final 5 copies -- but probably not. They seem to have been designed for a different purpose than the regular 7 Cylons (so aren't part of their 'society'), by whoever/whatever built and programmed the human Cylons in the first place.

I also think the final 5 are unique... and not subject to regeneration, at least not like the other 7. That being said, I think their origins may be more closely tied to the anachronistic Cylons that were encountered in Razor.

Friday's episode was another good one...

[battlecat]

Hadn't thought about the voting in that way, but yeah that'd work too... I know they've had some Cylon deaths in the show that were out of range of resurrection ships, I guess I always assumed that if a copy actually full-on died, it would be replaced with a completely fresh copy -- though your way makes more sense now that I think about the Sharon and Six living on Galactica, who must not have voted.

I actually really like the way Cylon society has been shown in such an alien way on the show, especially when Baltar was living on the base ship and it was all just so "hazy"...

Friday's was good -- I think they're pulling off

Baltar's cult much better than I thought they would from the teaser last season, although the thing with his imaginary Six flopping him around like a puppet was a bit silly for me...

[captain_cbecker]

Hadn't thought about the voting in that way, but yeah that'd work too... I know they've had some Cylon deaths in the show that were out of range of resurrection ships, I guess I always assumed that if a copy actually full-on died, it would be replaced with a completely fresh copy -- though your way makes more sense now that I think about the Sharon and Six living on Galactica, who must not have voted.

I actually really like the way Cylon society has been shown in such an alien way on the show, especially when Baltar was living on the base ship and it was all just so "hazy"...

Friday's was good -- I think they're pulling off

Baltar's cult much better than I thought they would from the teaser last season, although the thing with his imaginary Six flopping him around like a puppet was a bit silly for me...

Yeah, the Baltar thing and how it's influencing

Tory & Tyrol

is pretty interesting. It seems that the cylon theology

is resonating with Baltar's cult which may make them sympathetic to the cylons.

Im glad that they are looking a little closer into

the breakdown of command on the Demitrius and Starbuck's diminishing grasp on reality

. I can't wait to see

how the mutiny resolves itself

, and if the

colonials take sides in the cylon war

- speaking of which, I wish they'd get back to that.

[pickle]

That was by far the creepiest episode of BSG I have ever seen. Gosh, I love this show. :biggrin:

[captain_cbecker]

The last couple weeks of BSG have been pretty good episodes. I'm excited about

the cylon alliance angle

, especially since I think it will

meltdown

.

So far, I'm not too interested in the direction things are going with

Athena's daughter, Hera

. I was hoping that was over.

The death of

Cally

was interesting, but with

Gaeta's injury and amputation

, I'm thinking that people are gonna start

dying

so they can

thin out the main characters

for the finale. It wouldn't surprise me if

the amputation diminshes Gaeta's role

, and we see bad things happen to

Zarek, Dualla and some of the secondary characters

as things come to a close. Don't get me wrong, I like

Gaeta and Dualla

and hope they stick around, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're history.

Edited May 18, 2008 by captain_cbecker

[Jad]

I'm surprised no one's commented on the Season 4 cliffhanger! I loved it, and could see how it would have worked as the ending to the series, though I'm glad we're getting 12 (or more?) more episodes.

Thoughts on the big reveal?

[The_Donster]

Any idea when the new season kicks off? I would have thought with the writers strike, they would have given a break in the season another thought Like JOT, I was surprised no one has commented on this season in over a month. I'll admit, this season didn't really have my attention until the last 2 episodes. But they ended it with a bang and I have to wonder what this is all leading up to?

[TBT!]

I'm surprised no one's commented on the Season 4 cliffhanger! I loved it, and could see how it would have worked as the ending to the series, though I'm glad we're getting 12 (or more?) more episodes.

Thoughts on the big reveal?

I only got to see this today... Great episode and wow that was a surprise...

I Didn't expect them to find earth so soon, with 10 (confirmed) episodes left I thought it would be in the last couple.

So it's looking like it plays out as earths future after we wipe ourselves from the face of the planet.

I am curious how they can pad this out for 10 episodes when they already found earth. It definitely looked like they were worried and wanted a 'wrap-up' episode at the halfway point of the season.

I actually worry about where it is going to go from here and think this should have been the 'final episode'.

As for theories, I have several in my mind that I want to think through a little before posting.

T.

[battlecat]

So it's looking like it plays out as earths future after we wipe ourselves from the face of the planet.

Well all we saw were some ruins right? That just means the 13th colonists died out or left for somewhere else. Could be earth's future or past, or could be the "wrong" earth entirely or a trick of some kind -- especially since they found the place through Starbuck's weirdo ship and Cylon Radio, not by following "the dying leader" or whatever. Until they explain Starbuck, I guess I don't really buy it as earth.

I also found it a bit strange that no one pressed Diana on who the final cylon is, although I guess they didn't want anything potentially screwing up the alliance. She did say the 5th cylon wasn't in the fleet though, which means it could be someone who was on the base ship at the time (Roslyn or Baltar, but both seem unlikely) or someone that's already died on the show. Or someone new. Or she was lying.

The Donster -- last I heard it was still 2009 for the second half of the season.

Edited June 21, 2008 by battlecat

[captain_cbecker]

These last few episodes have been really good.

I'm happy

that the final four have been revealed to the colonials...

I've been waiting to see how that would play out.

I'm also interested to see

where Leoben, Cavil, Simon and the Boomer Cylon factor into this new twist. You know they'll be back.

I really like that we've seen more of the centurions... Star Wars fans or not, you gotta admit that the centurions look so much more cool and ominous than Battle Droids/Super Battle droids.

There are still plenty of loose ends to resolve before the season ends.

[pickle]

I'm also interested to see

where Leoben, Cavil, Simon and the Boomer Cylon factor into this new twist. You know they'll be back.

I think you mean Aaron, not Leoben.

I agree as well, I am looking foward to how that will play out quite a bit.

I also don't think that it will be a future or past earth. I think that BSG is its own universe like Marvel or DC. Or a least I hope it is, I would hate to see the modern BSG turn out like Planet of the Apes (old or new film). And connecting it to our world would seem a silly move to end the series, Galactica 1980?

Edited June 17, 2008 by pickle

[Alter Ego Comics]

I believe we're looking at February or March 2009 for the new episodes.

I was expecting more of a cliffhanger, based on internet chatter, but I do have one question:

Are we to assume that the entire planet looks like the area they were in? Earth is a big place, and I can think of areas on Earth today that look a bit like the location that they were standing in.

[battlecat]

I was expecting more of a cliffhanger, based on internet chatter, but I do have one question:

Are we to assume that the entire planet looks like the area they were in? Earth is a big place, and I can think of areas on Earth today that look a bit like the location that they were standing in.

Well when we've seen them approach new planets before, they do flybys or take satellite-style photos of the surface -- so I doubt they just happened to land in craptown. The implication seemed to be that either the whole Earth was a dump or that the area they landed in was the only sign of civilization and it was long gone... And only 8 months until we get to find out

Just out of curiosity, what kind of cliffhanger were you expecting?

Getting to Earth this early caught me way off guard -- kind of made up for this year's Lost finale being more straightforward than usual.

Edited June 21, 2008 by battlecat

[neolego]

Ok, I'm going to spoiler box everything just to be safe

Let me first say, I haven't posted because I don't have cable and I have to wait for Hulu to catch up. They were doing really good at first, but the last 3 or 4 episodes were like 2 weeks removed from airing, so it's taken me a while.

Now, that being said, HOLY COW! I was not expecting them to get to Earth that soon either. In Adama's quarters he was like "we need to get there as soon as possible" which made it sound like it would take a little while but they would hurry. One jump later, HELLO!

Like Timbo, I have tons thoughts about the last Mini-Season, but I'll hold my tongue till I have time to process. I'm not sure if it's a set up or if it's really Earth. They said the Final 5 have already been to Earth so how does that figure in and are the final 5 the only models that grow old? There is just so much, I have to have time to digest it all.

In the end though, I am very satisfied with this season and can't wait until next year. We'll get the 2nd to last season of Lost and the final season of Battlestar, it's going to be a good Winter/Spring season!

neo