The Wrestling Thread

[MiniFiend UK]

Just watched the Raw after WM30 or as I always think of them Bizarro World Raw. I love these ones the last few years where the fans just go nuts and do what they want cheering the heels's and booing the faces.

point of interest the only heel I saw get a hee lreaction was Lesner. Even with that brilliant Heyman promo Lesner got boo'd. Forty minutes or so later and Heyman is cheered like he was giving out free money.

That Raw was great and this time it seems WWE played right into the fans as they now now that RAW after the WM is gold with all the international fans etc.A few new wrestlers some great matches and excellent fan participation. I loved it.

On a side note if you can watch Main Event from this week as the 6 man between Wyatts and Shield is very good.

[karamazov80]

Yeah, the "smart marks" all recognize how good Heyman is for Cesaro, and certainly appreciate what he brings to the table. Now, you've got the single best man on the mic in Heyman teamed with one of the top 2 or 3 wrestlers, and probably the single best athlete on the roster, who knows how to tell stories in the ring that fans will care about. . .it's an exciting prospect, assuming WWE doesn't f it up royally, as they have done oh, so many times in the past.

By the way, WWE Network has a video diary of Bryan leading up to Wrestlemania, and it's pretty good. Nothing groundbreaking for guys who have paid attention to Bryan, but still an enjoyable look behind the scenes. A couple of things that stuck out to me was that Rollins and Bryan seem to be really close friends, and so when one speaks about the other it comes across as really genuine. A really funny scene was Bryan interacting with Cena. Cena seems like such a politician, even when he's just one-on-one with Bryan backstage.

Edited April 10, 2014 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

I'm going to try and make time to watch that special this week. I hear good things.

So, Steve Austin has Paul Heyman on his podcast this week, and the first one was so good that I wasn't paying attention and missed my train stop (fortunately, the next stop is only a short walk away). Heyman is so great. And he and Austin are old friends, so it's just like listening to two guys chatting about what they both know and love. Part two is up tomorrow.

Heyman did talk about CM Punk, and there was some interesting tidbits there: He talks to Punk all the time, but they rarely even mention wrestling; Punk has not talked to Vince once since leaving, which contradicts some of the other rumors that they had been negotiating since Punk left; and that the only three people in the room when Punk decided to leave were Punk, Vince, and HHH. Paul doesn't think Punk will ever come back, which doesn't surprise me but makes me sad nonetheless.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Never say never when it comes to minimates pro wrestling.

I might have to amend some of my prior statements after watching Main Event today. The Divas Battle Royal to determine the #1 contender was god-awful. I still think there are some really talented female performers, but there's also a lot of garbage. I hope AJ Lee isn't leaving. She lost her title pretty uncerimoniously and it doesn't appear that she's getting a rematch. Maybe she's out the door with Punk.

[karamazov80]

Speaking of Heyman, I was watching an ECW show from August 1994 on the WWE Network last night, which is the period I had been waiting to see show up on the channel, because that's the time when Malenko, Guerrero, and Benoit showed up there. They announced a tournament for the NWA championship, with Malenko, Benoit, 2 Cold Scorpio, Shane Douglas, and others involved. Pretty sure it culminates in the famous Douglas spot where he essentially creates "Extreme" Championship Wrestling. The show I saw had no matches with the guys I'm interested in, but had 4 interviews that were worth checking out--first, Malenko, who for possibly the only time I've ever seen was allowed to just talk about whatever he wanted for as long as he wanted to. It was like you would stereotypically expect from him. Monotone, very boring, but at the same time he came off as incredibly knowledgeable of the history of the NWA, though that's not too shocking. Then, Mick Foley had a trademark Foley interview (he was teaming with Funk against the Public Enemy, and they showed the classic scene where all the fans tossed their chairs into the ring--it was insanely dangerous looking--even Foley got the hell out of dodge at some point there!), 2 Cold Scorpio had a funny promo. But the best thing was Heyman, who was building up this match like it was the greatest match you've ever seen, though all it amounted to was someone fighting the horrible 911. Looking back, I remember how popular 911 always was in those early ECW shows, and I never got it. But then, I must have been missing the Heyman spots. Heyman clearly made 911 a character folks cared about purely through his promotional abilities.

Edited April 16, 2014 by karamazov80

[hellpop]

@Zombie Shakespeare: The really sad thing about the Divas is that the WWE has simply trained us not to care about them. The matches are always short and often pointless. They usually come on after a big segment as a cool down. The announcers often don't even talk about the action in the ring, and if they do it's usually just to mock it. Worst of all, they are all basically interchangeable. The heels are always bitches, the babyfaces smiling and vapid.

AJ has been the exception for the past few years, but even she has been terribly misused. She got really over a few years ago, but then they totally botched what they had by putting her in the GM role, for which she was terribly miscast. I've always thought that she is basically wasted as a heel, because she's one of the most likeable people on the whole roster. And, unfortunately, while she was Divas champ her stock really fell. I think she was pinned or submitted by every other single woman on the roster, meaning that no one else really got over as a threat to her title, and she was not the credible champion she should have been.

I have high hopes for Paige. She's really talented. I didn't love her debut, because she looked like a scared little girl that scored a fluke pin. But her match on Raw this week was a lot better. The rumor with AJ is that she's taking some time off, so hopefully she will return soon enough to have a proper match for the title, which has a chance to be really good. I fear, though, that AJ's future with the company isn't that bright, considering she's marrying WWE Public Enemy #1.

[hellpop]

We all think Flair was drunk, right?

[karamazov80]

I didn't catch Raw. What happened?

[hellpop]

I only saw the last hour myself. I'm referring to the last segment, which had Evolution come out and cut a promo before Randy Orton was to face Roman Reigns (presumably Orton couldn't take being in pants for another week). Then the Shield came out. Then Flair's music hit and he came down. He started to cut a promo about how great it was to be back with Evolution, and he was slurring his words a bit and seemed to have some trouble staying focused. Anyway, the swerve came when he turned around and endorsed the Shield and shook their hands. The commentators tried to get over that this was super embarrassing for Evolution, but... come on. Then the match went for like a minute before everyone else got involved. Evolution got the upper hand and gave the Shield a long beatdown before the Shield made a comeback, with the big climax being Reigns spearing Hunter. I thought it was pretty good, but a lot of people seemed to be down on it. I still really want to see this match, but oh how I wish it was a War Games match with Daniel Bryan and Kane also in the mix.

Speaking of those two, the hour I watched began with Stephanie in the ring earnestly apologizing to Bryan and Brie. As a show of good faith, she gave Brie a title shot against Paige. Bryan still didn't trust her, so he came down to the ring to protect her despite being in a neck brace. Too bad the APA isn't around any more. Paige entered during the commercial, which is too bad because I like her music. Match was okay, those two definitely could have a good match sometime down the line. But they were interrupted after Paige hit a Superplex (!) by Kane's music. Bryan looked around frantically while Kane EMERGED FROM A HOLE IN THE RING. That old chestnut. Bryan tried to protect Brie but was taken out. Kane stalked Brie, and Bryan went under the ring and came back with a wrench. He knocked out Kane and went to check on Brie. Kane did the sit up thing. Bryan pushed Brie out of the ring for her protection and ended up getting choke slammed. Brie then slid BACK IN THE RING for some goddamn reason, which I thought ruined the whole thing. Kane attempted to drag her down the hole he'd made, which led somewhere else, I guess? Maybe he travels like Bugs Bunny. Anyway, Brie managed to free herself and she and Bryan went up the ramp with assistance from the refs. But wait! Kane had another trick left! Fire on the entrance ramp! It scared them! Meh.

The other notable thing (which I haven't seen) is a sad guy promo from John Cena to open the show, wondering why the WWE Universe put him in a handicap match last week. He was interrupted by Bray Wyatt and a CHORUS OF CHILDREN, whom eventually donned sheep masks. Sounds creepy and effective. But don't worry! Because later on, Cena did an interview with Renee (after blowing her off earlier in the show) in which he said something like it doesn't matter who the people are supporting, because they are reacting, and then he lifted some bad sexual innuendo comedy from the Rock's playbook. So don't worry, Cena's fine. Mind games failed. So hey, just cancel the match!

Needless to say, it doesn't sound like a super great show to set up the PPV. But we've already paid to view it, so....

[boyd]

Go back and catch the Hugh Jackman guest appearance from tonight's Raw. It has Damien Sandow cosplaying Magneto.

[karamazov80]

Sounds like WWE is sputtering along a bit. Even if War Games happened, considering some mix of those guys seem to go at it every week, who really cares? They aren't building drama in the way they used to. The Bryan/Kane thing sounds lame to me. He hit Kane with a wrench? *sigh* And of course, we can't have Cena looking weak or beat down at the end of the day.

[MisterMiracle]

War Games between those 8 would be pretty awesome.

I liked the idea behind the Magneto skit but it just seemed a little loooooong.

It's sad to see the slow break-up of the Rhodes Brothers. I can't believe they had a solid tag division only a few months ago and now the only teams they have are the Usos, Rybaxel, Matadores, and 3MB. The Usos have really come together. I'm impressed with how much they've improved over the past year or so,

Edited April 29, 2014 by MisterMiracle

[hellpop]

WWE is so schitzophrentic. One week it seems like they are firing on all cylanders, the next it seems like they are floundering. I think their goal for the summer should be to put some of their midcarders in line to face Bryan at some point. Cesaro, Wyatt, and Barrett are all guys that should be getting significant builds right now.

[karamazov80]

Why would they break up the Rhodes's, I wonder? If it was to push Cody, I would support it, but I know better. Otherwise, those guys are pretty well suited to providing great matches to fill out shows. They and the Matadors are the only two teams Miracle mentioned that I will probably sit and watch, now that the Real Americans are done.

But yeah, the Evolution thing feels flat to me. Cena's schtick is beyond old at this point. And Kane has his bi-yearly "monster" revitalization that will ultimately lead to nothing. They should be building up new talent instead of focusing on the has-beens. And I think they should be bringing in some genuinely creative, and funny talent like Colt Cabana. He could be a weekly highlight of Raw. But no. They are apparently moving several NXT guys up, and Bryan, Cesaro, and Reigns will surely all have their moments this year, but it still feels like WWE are resting on their laurels way too much.

[hellpop]

The rumor with the Rhodes Bros was that they were going to split and have a grudge match at WM; when that didn't happen, everyone assumed it was because the PTB realized that they are pretty awesome together. But apparently not. I don't see why they can't just stay together and be awesome. I'd rather see them both turn heel and challenge the Usos then break up.

I am looking forward to the Evolution/Shield match, but other then that the Extreme Rules looks rather weak.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

I'm going to RAW next week and the number one thing I'm looking forward to is Adam Rose.

[MisterMiracle]

He's finally going to debut? I saw him down in FCW a few years back when I had a WWE try-out. I wasn't too impressed with him back then. I love the new gimmick, I just hope his in ring work has improved since I last saw him.

Edited April 30, 2014 by MisterMiracle

[Zombie Shakespeare]

He's been amusing on NXT. Rumor is he'll debut on RAW.

[hellpop]

I think it's more then a rumor, I think they outright said he'll debut on Raw. I suspect he'll have a big debut, squash a few guys, then get lost in the shuffle and stuck in go-nowhere comedy angles once the newness wears off. I call this "Fandangoing".

[karamazov80]

I suspect he'll have a big debut, squash a few guys, then get lost in the shuffle. . .

Well that's about 90% of the guys who get vignettes, isn't it?

[hellpop]

Yeah, probably. But most of them didn't beat Chris Jericho at WrestleMania, then get stuck in a battle royal the next year. Of course, Fandango wasn't even the most embarrassed man on the roster that night, as Miz went from pinning John Cena in the main event to being eliminated from a battle royal by Santinio in three short years.

[hellpop]

Seth Rollins is officially my favorite wrestler now.

[karamazov80]

Pretty good PPV tonight IMO. Triple threat elimination for. . .respect(?) was good, SHIELD/old bastards was good, Cena/Wyatt was good, apart from the stupid ending and child with weird voice, main event was good, with some pretty insane stuff going on backstage (Kane would have impaled Bryan with whatever he tossed through that car windshield if he hadn't moved!), and nice use of a flaming table.

Surprised they didn't just phone it in. I did think the Evolution loss was a bad move, though. Now Evolution/HHH look weak as hell, after Wrestlemania and then this.

[hellpop]

I was kind of in and out on this. Saw the beginning, then I put my daughter to bed, then watched the Big E/ Bad News match, then the Shield and Evolution, then missed Cena/Wyatt and the women's match, then saw most of the main event. Liked what I saw, though I hear very, very bad things about the Cena match. Shield and Evolution was terrific. I thought Seth Rollins broke his neck on that one tope where he hit the floor. And then that dive... so excellent. Yeah, he's my guy now. The main event was crazy, but I still didn't really like it that much. I just wish they were playing more off Kane and Bryan's history. All the backstage stuff was goofy, but the fire spot kind of made up for it. I almost want to watch the Cena match to see if it's really as bad as I've been hearing.

[karamazov80]

Well, in full disclosure, I probably actually paid attention to about 30% of the show, but I did have it on constantly in the background, which is more than usual for me. Cena match seemed OK to me, though. . .apart from the end, which was just idiotic, and fitting of mid-90s WWF or something. Actually, maybe more like the bad part of early '90s WCW. Just had the whole Wyatt family getting involved, trying everything they could to stop Cena, and they couldn't, so right before Cena escaped Cole et al. gave him the kiss of death--i.e., "Cena is going to exit the cage and win the match!" I commented to my wife that this meant Cena most certainly would not win, and right on cue, black screen, Wyatt video thing, lights come on and some kid is there talking through a vocoder singing. Cena is distraught and loses.

Edited May 5, 2014 by karamazov80