The Wrestling Thread

[storm 1:08]

I was entertained by the Rock, but I agree that Punk won the battle. Too bad they cut Punk's promo and went into a commercial break. He was on a roll. Would have loved to see how Paul Heyman disappeared too. Finally their match is officially confirmed. Looking forward to it. However, it was hard to not notice the size difference between the two when they were face to face...

Tyson Kidd is a workhorse.

[JeffBohn]

I watched the last 30 minutes, I DVR'd the whole thing, but not much caught my interest (*) until the CM Punk speech. I thought they let CM Punk go a little too long before the interruption. The Rock lost me with Cookie Puss, I had no idea what a Cookie Puss was. Even with those slight annoyances, it was still better than a lot of wrestling I've seen recently, and I'll be checking out Smackdown Friday!

* - Antonio Cesaro caught my interest, impressed by his strength!

Edited January 9, 2013 by JeffBohn

[hellpop]

They bring back the Rock during the BCS championship game? Lame, WWE. Of course, I forgot about it and missed it.

What in the world were you doing still watching that game at 10:30? Wasn't it like 35-0 by then? You must be an Alabama grad.

Edited January 9, 2013 by hellpop

[karamazov80]

So sue me, I enjoy watching the SEC dominate others in BCS championship games.

[hellpop]

I am not engaging in this discussion, Karamozov! I'm not taking your bait!

[MiniFiend UK]

can we go back to talking about fake violence and speedo's

[hellpop]

Hellpop books WrestleMania part 1: the Main Event

Been thinking about doing this for awhile now, and I figure MMMV Returns Celebration Day is as good a day as any. So, over the rest of the week, as we run up to the Rumble, I'm going to indulge in some fantasy booking, beginning with the WWE title match:

CM PUNK © vs John Cena vs the Rock

The big problem with the generally accepted booking for this match (Punk drops the belt to Rock, Cena wins the Rumble, Rock vs Cena II at 'Mania) is that it's just too obvious. We've been expecting this for months. But there's more reasons to follow my plan, which is to keep the title on Punk and make the WM match a three way dance. For one thing, Rock vs Cena wasn't really all that great, certainly not good enough that I'd want a rematch a year later, title on the line or no title on the line. But also: Punk deserves to be in the Main Event. He's done a great job at making his title reign matter, not an easy thing to do in this day and age, and having him drop the belt before 'Mania feels like a lost opportunity. If he can get by the Rock and go to 'Mania as still the champ, then it becomes a big deal, and it will feel like the guy that beats him has accomplished something.

So: Punk retains on Sunday, but not cleanly. We have either a DQ or no contest, something so that Rock can come out and demand a rematch for WM and not have it seem like sour grapes. But, hold on, here comes your (obvious) Royal Rumble winner, John Cena. He wants Punk at 'Mania, as is his right as the Rumble winner. Now, here I'd have Punk say forget it to both of you, he wants someone new. Someone who doesn't wrestle twice a year (like Rock) or get a title shot any time he wants (like Cena). Leading to Vince McMahon coming out and making the triple threat, and leaving no one happy.

In the buildup to the match, I put Punk over big. I mean BIG. I want him standing tall at the end of every show. I want him looking larger then life and unbeatable. At the Elimination Chamber, I want a tag team match with Cena and Rock vs Punk and (probably) Ziggler (whom, as you'll see later, is my WHC by this point). In this match, Cena and Rock can't get along at all, and Punk finally takes advantage by hitting the GTS on the Rock and pinning him cleanly. Punk's now become the first man to pin the Rock in a decade (or thereabouts).

All of which is leading, of course, to Punk finally dropping the title at WrestleManina. Probably to the Rock, depending on what kind of schedule we'd get from him (since I don't want an absentee champ). I'd really like to see an extended story built around Cena loosing confidence, about feeling like he can't get it done anymore. I think that might be the one interesting place to take the John Cena character, and this is where we start.

As for Punk, I give him at least a month off, then bring him back to build up his rematch with Rock at SummerSlam. Might even put him over too.

Next: The Streak

[karamazov80]

Has Ziggler explained why he hasn't cashed in his MITB yet, yet wants to be in the Rumble to get, I guess an extra shot at Wrestlemania?

[boyd]

My theory is Ziggler has forgotten that the briefcase actually has a contract inside of it, and carries it out of habit.

[hellpop]

Punk talked on his DVD about how much he hated carrying those things around, because he was responsible for it so he had to take it with him everywhere, so I doubt it's Ziggler's choice. :biggrin:

Okay, part two...

Hellpop books WrestleMania part 2: the Streak

So the prevailing rumor is that we're going to see 'Taker/Punk; even if I didn't already have Punk busy that night, I wouldn't do that anyway, because I think Punk needs to win at WM if he's not going to be carrying the title. But I think you'll like my choice for Undertaker's opponent anyway...

Undertaker vs Daniel Bryan

Doesn't this just seem like a logical extension of the Kane/ Bryan storyline? After loosing the tag titles to Rhodes and Sandow this weekend, Bryan calls Kane out. He says he's not going to challenge him to a match, because he's already beaten him. Instead, he's going to do something Kane can't do, something no one else can do: beat the Undertaker at WrestleMania. Kane laughs, but Bryan is serious. Next week, Undertaker comes out and accepts. Kane's set up as the special enforcer. It's on!

The whole point of this match, in my mind, is to get Bryan over. BIG TIME. Like the way Bret Hart launched Steve Austin to the next level at WM 13. So I'd want Bryan to push the Undertaker farther then anyone else ever has, and even do the impossible: score a visual submission on the Undertaker. A visual submission, for those that don't know, is when a wrestler is seen to submit by us, the audience, but not by the ref, so the match isn't ended (a visual pin is much the same). Here's how it would work: Undertaker goes to put Bryan in one of his signature finishers, but Bryan reverses into the No Lock. But- oh no!- his foot caught the ref! The ref's down! Undertaker, after a long struggle, taps! The Undertaker taps! Kane looks stunned! The crowd's going nuts! Bryan drops the hold and raises his arms! But then he sees the ref, sprawled out... "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Bryan revives the ref, but it's too late: he eats a choke slam. The streak continues.

But Bryan is put over as a major star. On Raw, he doesn't cry or complain. He knows what he did. And he's now next in line for the WHC, which we'll get to next.

[hellpop]

I know the lack of comments is because you're all stunned by my fantasy booking skills, so...

Hellpop books WrestleMania part 3: The World Heavyweight Championship

Dolph Ziggler © vs. Randy Orton

First things first... Del Rio as champion? As a babyface? Did he get over and I missed it? So, yeah, you're loosing Sunday to the Big Show, assuming that you guys have a match on Sunday (I haven't exactly been paying attention). But if not at Survivor Series, then Smackdown. And then, after the match, Ziggler cashes in. Since Ziggler's got the Sleeper in his bag of tricks, I'd like to have him do a little homage to the Princess Bride by jumping on the Big Show's back and putting him down, to dream of large women. So Ziggler's champ. Yay!

This should then be the beginning of a significant push for him. I think, eventually, I'd do a big Sheamus fead, but first i'd build him up by taking on Randy Orton. The Viper's had a quiet year, and I suspect he's still being punished for his second drug suspension. But he's still a big name, and a guy you can instantly throw back in the title picture. So I'd have Orton win the Elimination Chamber match to earn a shot at Ziggler at 'Mania, then put Dolph over. Fairly straightforward. I'd follow up with Ziggler vs. Bryan, sure to be the match of the year, building towards Ziggler vs. Sheamus at SummerSlam.

Next: Some random singles matches

[storm 1:08]

I know the lack of comments is because you're all stunned by my fantasy booking skills, so...

Apparently, my post was taken down for liking your Taker vs. Goatface match. But really, I think we lost all posts after a certain time yesterday as a couple of my posts were gone.

Reiterating my deleted post about Ziggie not cashing in, Sheamus and Cena stopped him before the bell rang when he tried to cash in a few times. Plus, Big Show as champ doesn't make it very easy to want to cash in.

Del Rio works well for me as a good guy mainly because of Ricardo. Ricardo sets the tone and gets me in a happy place. Without him, he would have probably taken a little longer to be accepted. Especially since the turn was almost out of nowhere and didn't make too much sense. When Miz and Del Rio turned, I thought Miz would do better and Del Rio would fail. But the opposite happened. Miz just naturally has that annoying edge (please stop using the Figure Four). But Del Rio, well, how can you not yell out with Ricardo when he says "AlbertoooOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Dellllll RrrrrrrrrriiiiIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

[boyd]

I posted too! Mainly just to say that your Bryan vs. Undertaker idea is great, and therefore would never be used by the WWE.

[karamazov80]

Agreed with Boyd. Just makes too much damn sense. Kane and Bryan will probably be involved in the 10 man tag team match you can get for free on Youtube at the beginning of the show.

[storm 1:08]

Kane and Bryan will probably be involved in the 10 man tag team match you can get for free on Youtube at the beginning of the show.

You stole my line from my deleted post. Except that I think it'll be Hell No vs Rhode Scholars. It's a tradition anyway. Bryan gets screwed at every Wrestlemania.

[UK Collector]

I'm loving the bookings, but like everyone else, I can't see it happening. WWE don't seem to deal in common sense!

[karamazov80]

Kane and Bryan will probably be involved in the 10 man tag team match you can get for free on Youtube at the beginning of the show.

You stole my line from my deleted post. Except that I think it'll be Hell No vs Rhode Scholars. It's a tradition anyway. Bryan gets screwed at every Wrestlemania.

McMahon hates his "vanilla midgets." Bret Hart probably never would have been champ if not for the steroid scandal that preceded it. And if Punk wasn't the most charismatic guy in the room he would have no chance of holding the belt the way he has.

[hellpop]

Thanks guys! It's been fun to do. I don't usually engage in fantasy booking, but this year it just got stuck in my head. I think it started with the thouht that Punk deserves to be in the Main Event, and, since he's Undertaker's rumored opponent, went from there.

As for Daniel Bryan, I think the most likely scenario is that they loose the tag team titles tonight and end up in a singles match at WrestleMania. Maybe they are also in the Rumble and eliminate each other. Whatever, that will all be fine. It's just that we've already seen it, and I don't think it takes Bryan to the next level. He's been a revelation as a comedic character, but it's time to get him back to being more serious. Also, my biggest fear is that they will somehow involve Charlie Sheen and do the Anger Management tie-in that they seemed to be building up to at SummerSlam. *shudder*

Anyway, couple random singles matches to use up the roster:

Hellpop books WrestleMania part 4: a couple random singles matches to use up the roster

Brock Lesnar vs. Sheamus

Now, I fully expect Brock to face Triple H. I just don't particularly want to see it again. Too much of the expected WM card (Rock/Cena/ Lesnar/HHH, even Punk/'Taker, though it's been a few years) are rematches. So, this pairing, which gives Sheamus a nice rub (in that the only other guys to work with Lesnar since his return are Cena and Hunter). It would be built around the fact that both men (kayfabe) broke Triple H's arm at some point, but now Sheamus is a good guy and he's got Hunter's back. I'd probably put Sheamus over, but I guess it depends on whether or not Brock will be around for another year.

Rybeck vs. Big Show

Why not? Rybeck can probably learn a lot from working with Show, and there's some inherent interest in the unstoppable force vs. immovable object angle. And, if Rybeck can do the ShellShock on Big Show, it becomes a WrestleMania moment, probably making up for a short, boring match.

Next: the other titles

[boyd]

Rybeck vs. Big Show

Why not? Rybeck can probably learn a lot from working with Show, and there's some inherent interest in the unstoppable force vs. immovable object angle. And, if Rybeck can do the ShellShock on Big Show, it becomes a WrestleMania moment, probably making up for a short, boring match.

I'm expecting this match to happen this year at WM. Either that or it'll be Ryback vs. the Shield.

And if Punk wasn't the most charismatic guy in the room he would have no chance of holding the belt the way he has.

Watching Raw this week, I was struck by the fact that it could be the last time we'll see Punk with the belt. With so much other talent (Bryan, Ziggler, Sandow) waiting in the wings, and with Cena out to claim the belt again, I can't see them giving Punk another run with the title any time soon.

Edited January 24, 2013 by boyd

[karamazov80]

Ryback vs. the SHIELD round 5 or 6 is what I expect. . ."WWE, television's House of Ideas"

[hellpop]

Rybeck vs. Big Show

Why not? Rybeck can probably learn a lot from working with Show, and there's some inherent interest in the unstoppable force vs. immovable object angle. And, if Rybeck can do the ShellShock on Big Show, it becomes a WrestleMania moment, probably making up for a short, boring match.

I'm expecting this match to happen this year at WM. Either that or it'll be Ryback vs. the Shield.

And if Punk wasn't the most charismatic guy in the room he would have no chance of holding the belt the way he has.

Watching Raw this week, I was struck by the fact that it could be the last time we'll see Punk with the belt. With so much other talent (Bryan, Ziggler, Sandow) waiting in the wings, and with Cena out to claim the belt again, I can't see them giving Punk another run with the title any time soon.

I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're probably right. Thanks for bringing me down, Boyd.

Punk's next move is an open question. I don't think the WWE would keep the title on a guy for over a year and then bury him down the card, but... they made Christ Jericho the first undisputed champion, then buried him back down the card. So who knows.

I just don't think the WWE quite gets Punk, still. I watched the Punk doc on Netflix during the outage (thanks for the tip, Karamozov!) and one of the things that really stuck out to me was Vince McMahon's absence. He's not on all these bio docs, but he's on enough of them that it's noticible when he doesn't participate. Triple H an Michael Hayes ended up basically speaking for him by proxy.

I think the WWE, pretty clearly, dropped the ball with Punk after MITB '11. They rushed him back, first off, but I don't think that's as big a problem as what they did after SummerSlam; the real mistake was putting the title on Del Rio and splitting the program by having Cena chase the belt and Punk feud with Triple H. The latter did Punk no favors by playing the role of company man as a babyface, making Punk seem like a heel and pushing the marks in the crowd (already suspicious of the guy) fully against him. Doesn't even really matter that HHH didn't put him over in their match.

So then they put the title on Punk... and try to make him a WWE-style good guy, and it was a bad fit. Worse, even though Punk was the champ, he was still behind Cena in the pecking order. People say that Punk's program with Jericho was a flop; well, the two matches were good. But the feud didn't really coalese, because it was an afterthought.

So Punk eventually turned heel, which I'm sure he was glad about. Thing is, turning him into a chickenshit heel goes against everything his character has been built around, going back to his first heel turn against Jeff Hardy. He did good work (just as he did as a babyface) but it's only recently, since he's gone back to basically just speaking his mind and telling the truth as he sees it, that he's really seemed all the way back.

There's really never been another charater in the WWE like CM Punk. He's very shaded-gray, and that really doesn't fit in the WWE's black hat/white hat world. Even Austin, ultimately, was just a babyface with a mean streak. The closest comparison is probably Chris Jericho's "last honest man" character, but Jericho made damn sure to remove any possible character traits that might get a positive crowd reaction. Punk, at his best, will be loved and hated in equal measure.

Yes, I think too much about wrestling.

[boyd]

I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're probably right. Thanks for bringing me down, Boyd.

Did not intent to bum you out - sorry about that.

I think you're right that Punk is in a very similar situation as Jericho - popular with the fans, but not over enough with management to get another shot at the belt. He's going to end up in the mid-card limbo, but will still be credible enough they could have him main event if necessary (unlike, say Kofi). And I think Punk is OK with that. I think he's already thinking of what's next after the WWE - I wouldn't be surprised to see him with a "wrestle when I want" schedule like Jericho has.

I could also see him feuding with the Shield this summer depending on what happens this Sunday.

[MiniFiend UK]

I'm way behind on wrestling at the moment but I will try an have a stab at guessing some results.

Antonio Cesaro V The Miz. By all accounts this is a preshow match so going with Antonio as I think WWE would want a Miz face title win to be at least televised.

Hello No V Road Scholars. Going with Sandow and Rhodes. I really like Kane and Bryans chemistry but I think its time to switch it up. This could well lead to Kane V Bryan at Wrestlemania which I think could possibly be Kane's last and a good way to go out.

Alberto V Big Show. Meh not that interested in this but Alberto to retain only because WWE wants a big Mexican/Hispanic/Latin?whatever star for that part of their demographic and ADR is all they have it seems right now.

The Rumble itself. Nearly impossible to call and it is the perfect way to slot someone into WM 3 way match with Punk and The Rock. So I would hazard a guess at Cena or Ryback for that one but Ziggler, Orton, Shamus are strong contenders for me and if Orton wins its the start of a heel run against face ADR.

Punk V Rock. I want Punk to retain I really do but I cant see it. Rock to win but to lose it at WM to Cena in a 3 way with Punk.

My personal booking would be Punk to win by interference from Lesner with cements those two to Hyman. Rock to win at Elimination Chamber by pinning whoever to get the title and then I hate to say it Cena to win at WM which puts the WWE poster boy back at the top for their biggest show.

[hellpop]

Good picks, MFUK.

Finishing up my fantasy booking before the Rumble tonight. None of these matches hinge on it, but it's nice to get it out of the way. So here are the secondary titles;

Intercontinental:

Wade Barrett © vs the Miz vs Alberto Del Rio vs Tyson Kidd vs Justin Gabriel vs Kofi Kingston vs Drew McIntyre vs Lord Tensai

See what I did there? Each one of these guys is from a different place. I figure this is a good way to get some interest in the IC belt (by making it a prize that each man wants to take home to his country) and to get a bunch of guys on the card (a WM tradition). I'd make this a single elimination match; you could also go with a scramble (where there's a time limit, and the last man to record a pinfall or submission is the champ), but I don't really care for the concept. Ladder match is also a possibility, especially with that many high flyers. Anyway, Barrett retains.

US Championship:

Antonio Cesario © vs Christian

I would have put the Miz here, but they're already wrestling tonight, and I can't imagine stretching that program out another two months. Christian deserves a spot (if he's healthy), and Cesario will certainly be better off just by being in the same ring with him. Cesario retains.

Tag Team:

Rhodes Scholars © vs Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara

Again, if the challengers are healthy. Did you know that the tag team titles have changed hands at WrestleMania more then any other title? It's true! So why not keep a tradition going? Rey and Cara win the titles.

So, that's it. An eight match card, plus figure in some crap with the Divas. I think I've got everyone that matters covered here; the biggest omission is probably the Shield. But, unless you want to put them in a match with Zack Ryder, Brodius Clay, and Santino Marella, I don't see how you could fit them on the card without seriously impacting the quality of the show's other matches, no matter how you book them. And, frankly, I think they are better off just cutting a promo and/or interfering somewhere if they aren't going to be working with top talent.

That's it! Hope you guys liked it! Let's go Punk tonight!

[hellpop]

Good Rumble. Click for spoilers:

-Del Rio wins the LMS match after Ricardo ducttaped the Big Show's feet to the ropes, and an arm injury prevented him from pushing himself up enough to reach his feet. Best spot saw Show climb up the Rumble set dressing, hoist Del Rio by the hair, and choke slam him through a table. No Dolph, sadly. He (Dolph) then cut a promo saying that he was going to win the Rumble, cash in the briefcase to win the WHC, then challenge for the WWE championship at WM and unify the titles. Would have been much better if he'd said that after cashing in. Would have been a great story, Ziggler wins the WHC and still enters the Rumble.

-Team Hell No retained in a standard tag team match. Sandow tapped, I think? Dr. Shelby's prize pupils look united heading into...

-The Rumble, which was NOT the main event. I wondered what would go on last.

-Surprise entrants were Golddust, the Godfather (ugh), and... Chris Freaking Jericho! What a pop for Y2J. He came out #2, after Dolph came out and said he doesn't even care who #2 is, bring him out. Jericho was probably more over then anyone in the match; at one point while it was still just him and Dolph, the crowd started a "you still got it!" chant, to which Jericho replied "I never lost it, baby!"

-I guess our new thing at the Rumble now is going to be Kofi Kingston doing something amazing to avoid elimination. This time, he eliminated Tensai, but was then knocked off the apron. He landed on Tensai's back, though, who ended up depositing Kofi on the Spanish announce table. So Kofi's stuck there, with seemingly no way to get back to the ring without eliminating himself. He ends up taking JBL's chair and using it like a pogo stick (there's probably already a GIF of this out there) to get back to the ring. As he was doing this, I said to myself "it would be awesome if somebody knocks him right off after all that work," and sure enough that's what happened. Now, here's the thing: Kofi should have stayed where he was! He was safe! Let the match play out, then get back to the ring when everyone else is down! Stupid Kofi.

-Golddust had a nice run, and got to work with Cody a lot. Pretty cool.

-Godfather came out with two women (conspicuously NOT referred to as hos), took off his coat and hat, climbed up to the apron, and was immediately eliminated.

-Some kid from NXT (Bo Dallas, maybe?) won a pre-match tournament to enter the Rumble, and lasted quite awhile. He even eliminated Wade Barrett, who reciprocated and took the kid out. Not exactly Maven and Undertaker (which somehow wasn't mentioned), but pretty good.

-Kane and Daniel Bryan ended up eliminating each other. Shocker.

-Jericho and Ziggler made it to the final six before being eliminated. Hope Jericho's back for awhile.

-Final four was Cena, Orton, Sheamus, Rybeck. Orton was looking very good before Rybeck eliminated him. Sheamus went next.

-If you wanted to get Rybeck over with the smark crowd, having him be the last man standing between Cena and his inevitable victory is a good way to do it. And yes, Cena won. I told you it was inevitable.

-So, the main event. But first, Rock cut a passionate promo, which was a good idea, I thought, to get the crowd fully behind him, since there was bound to be a lot of Punk smarks in the crowd. And, sure enough, Punk was cheered throughout. But not as much as Rock.

-The match was very good, with a great, big match feel. I admit I was pretty pumped. The storytelling was really good, as Punk took control early, as you would expect considering Rock's had two matches in seven years (JBL was great on commentary pointing this out). But then Punk tweaked his knee coming off the top (the one he had surgery on, remember) and Rock was able to fight back. Great storytelling. Rock and Punk had much more chemistry than Rock and Cena did last year.

-Scary moment saw Rock go to give Punk a Rock Bottom while standing on the Spanish announce table, but it gave way and they both hit the ground hard (I blame Kofi). Rock looked for a minute like he might have really hurt his knee, but seemed okay.

-They did a false finish, in which the Rock was going to hit the People's Elbow, but the lights went out and the Shield (apparently, since we couldn't see) put the Rock through the other table. Punk played along, got Rock back in the ring and pinned him. For a moment, it looked like my fantasy main event was still on...

-... but here comes Vince McMahon. He's about to strip Punk of the title, when the battered Rock interrupts him, saying "you don't take the title from him. I do. Restart the match". And, you know whats' gonna happen there. Rock's able to weather the initial storm (including kicking out of the Savage elbow) to turn the tables. Spinebuster, People's Elbow, new champ. Punk at least went down in style.

Edited January 28, 2013 by hellpop