stack32 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I find it hard to believe that enough people knew about The Raid to affect Dredd's box office, at least in the US. It doesn't matter if Suicide Squad and Thunderbolts have similar concepts, it matters if they actually catch the audience's attention enough to get a real hold on the idea. That's still a big question for Suicide Squad. If it's not the 2008 GotG I'm not interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I find it hard to believe that enough people knew about The Raid to affect Dredd's box office, at least in the US. It doesn't matter if Suicide Squad and Thunderbolts have similar concepts, it matters if they actually catch the audience's attention enough to get a real hold on the idea. That's still a big question for Suicide Squad. If it's not the 2008 GotG I'm not interested. A lot hinges on those "early reviews" on twitter and other social media, and 8 out of 10 said that Dredd was an exact copy of The Raid. The minimal marketing due to the small budget, plus those early reactions did affect Dredd. So if T-Bolts were to come out a year or two after SS then yes, the GA would see it as a ripoff. I don't know why that's even up for debate really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thunderbolts is a much more marketable moniker for toys than Suicide Squad, despite the fact that the latter is infinitely better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Yeah, Florida Mom is going to freak out when her kid sees a Suicide Squad Torturing Joker action figure at Toys R Us next summer. I wouldn't be surprised if they change the name last minute. Get fans amped up with that Comic Con trailer and then drop the news that the name is being changed to something more accessible. It's already PG-13, right? I would love to be a fly on the wall during those WB boardroom meetings discussing the name. Edited July 30, 2015 by youbastards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Suicide Squad also goes by the name Task Force X, which I'm sure would get Fox and Marvel to finally agree on something. Edited July 30, 2015 by MisterPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENIME_art Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A lot of people have pointed out a lot of similarities between Inside Out & The Farrelly Bros.' Osmosis Jones (remember that flick?). The difference is the execution. If WB does Suicide Squad the way they've done the rest of their DC movies, but Marvel can pull a GotG with Thunderbolts... Quality will always win over "first!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marvel needs to get a little more harder edged too, with the exception of the Captain America movies, there is definitely a feeling of punches being pulled when it comes to villains and violence. That's one of the biggest problems I had with Age of Ultron, they weren't willing to really deal with the consequences of what was taking place on screen, and there should have been major fallout after what took place but there wasn't. There's a little too much of a desire to say "Don't worry, everyone was OK!" after the movie is over, and sometimes you need to feel the pain a little more. It's part of the reason why they are so successful because these movies are accessible to people of almost any age, but sometimes I think that also takes away from the story they are trying to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) A lot of people have pointed out a lot of similarities between Inside Out & The Farrelly Bros.' Osmosis Jones (remember that flick?). The difference is the execution. If WB does Suicide Squad the way they've done the rest of their DC movies, but Marvel can pull a GotG with Thunderbolts... Quality will always win over "first!". Yeah, but we're not talking about 2 movies a decade or so apart, with similar set-ups. Whereas OJ mostly was about portraying a man's body as a huge city and showing the lives of its residents, IO mostly dealt with feelings, and what exists in our head. It was different enough that you can say that IO was "inspired" from OJ. But with T-Bolts and SS you have the exact same premise. Villains used as agents for extremely dangerous missions. There is not a difference in there apart from the different characters. T-Bolts could be different, if they go with the "villains wanting redemption" route, but that'd be hard to do, since you haven't really seen them go through this journey of being sick and tired of being a punching bag. Personally I love the T-Bolts. The OGs, the OzBolts, the Ellis-Bolts, the Raft-Bolts, everything. But if in 2016 SS is released, and then Marvel comes out with T-Bolts in say, 2017, the GA will complain that the latter is a straight up rip-off. I'm not saying "quality" doesn't matter, but there sure as hell are going to be people going "oh, DC just did that, is Marvel out of ideas already?". Will it affect the show? Who knows. But the majority or maybe a small minority, who knows, will see it as a rip-off. Edited July 30, 2015 by Kostisfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 DC is certainly taking the extra step for Suicide Squad by bringing in their two biggest draws to be supporting players, it's a smart insurance policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The "rip-offs" started back with DreamWorks and Pixar. Toy Story (1995) vs. Small Soldiers (1998) Antz (1998) vs. A Bug's Life (1998) Monsters, Inc. (2001) vs. Shrek (2001) Finding Nemo (2003) vs. Shark Tale (2004) All movies with similar themes. Even Pixar and Fox went at it with The Incredibles (2004) vs. Fantastic Four (2005) Back in 2010, WB released The Losers shortly before Fox released their feature film adaptation of The A-Team. And DC's most famous gunslinger Jonah Hex premiered a year before Cowboys vs. Aliens. Most of these are coincidences. Some are examples of a cannibalistic industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) "Rip-offs" started before that, but let me add a few to the list! The Howling vs An American Werewolf in London (1981) Octopussy vs Never Say Never Again (1983) Dreamscape vs A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984) Big vs 18 Again (1988) The Abyss vs Leviathan (1989) Dante's Peak vs Volcano (1997) Deep Impact vs Armageddon (1998) White House Down vs Olympus Has Fallen (2013) and the one to top them all..... Go-Bots: Challenge of the Go-Bots vs Transformers the Movie (1986) Edited July 30, 2015 by youbastards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 And people still talk about most of these to this day (particularly Antz vs A Bug's life and FNvST). I'm not debating whether SS or (the currently existing in the sphere of imagination might I add) TB will be better, or more successful or anything like that. For all we know SS being R-Rated will be a flop and TB is just a baseless scoop. But IMHO it'd not be good for Marvel to come off as "the theif" by "stealing" DC's concept. PS: Classic SS was better than classic T-Bolts, but overall, the T-Bolts are of a much better quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A lot of people have pointed out a lot of similarities between Inside Out & The Farrelly Bros.' Osmosis Jones (remember that flick?). The difference is the execution. If WB does Suicide Squad the way they've done the rest of their DC movies, but Marvel can pull a GotG with Thunderbolts... Quality will always win over "first!". Yeah, but we're not talking about 2 movies a decade or so apart, with similar set-ups. Whereas OJ mostly was about portraying a man's body as a huge city and showing the lives of its residents, IO mostly dealt with feelings, and what exists in our head. It was different enough that you can say that IO was "inspired" from OJ. But with T-Bolts and SS you have the exact same premise. Villains used as agents for extremely dangerous missions. There is not a difference in there apart from the different characters. T-Bolts could be different, if they go with the "villains wanting redemption" route, but that'd be hard to do, since you haven't really seen them go through this journey of being sick and tired of being a punching bag. Personally I love the T-Bolts. The OGs, the OzBolts, the Ellis-Bolts, the Raft-Bolts, everything. But if in 2016 SS is released, and then Marvel comes out with T-Bolts in say, 2017, the GA will complain that the latter is a straight up rip-off. I'm not saying "quality" doesn't matter, but there sure as hell are going to be people going "oh, DC just did that, is Marvel out of ideas already?". Will it affect the show? Who knows. But the majority or maybe a small minority, who knows, will see it as a rip-off. Who gives a Shit if some of the audience thinks it's a rip off. That already happens anyway. Moon knight is often referred to as marvels batman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Marvel needs to get a little more harder edged too I couldn't disagree more, the reason the Marvel Cinematic Universe has worked so well is that it is "fun" and doesn't take itself too seriously. Edited July 30, 2015 by youbastards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marvel needs to get a little more harder edged too I couldn't disagree more, the reason the Marvel Cinematic Universe has worked so well is that it is "fun" and doesn't take itself too seriously. I don't mean to that great of a degree, but I feel like there are times where they deliberately ignore the logical aftermath of certain situations. I don't want to say too much in the very unlikely event that someone here hasn't seen AOU yet, but I'll just say that I feel like certain members of the world and one member of the Avengers in particular would have several words to say to Tony Stark, and the fact that there was never even a scene between the two of them is a punch that was pulled. And just bad writing frankly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A lot of people have pointed out a lot of similarities between Inside Out & The Farrelly Bros.' Osmosis Jones (remember that flick?). The difference is the execution. If WB does Suicide Squad the way they've done the rest of their DC movies, but Marvel can pull a GotG with Thunderbolts... Quality will always win over "first!". Yeah, but we're not talking about 2 movies a decade or so apart, with similar set-ups. Whereas OJ mostly was about portraying a man's body as a huge city and showing the lives of its residents, IO mostly dealt with feelings, and what exists in our head. It was different enough that you can say that IO was "inspired" from OJ. But with T-Bolts and SS you have the exact same premise. Villains used as agents for extremely dangerous missions. There is not a difference in there apart from the different characters. T-Bolts could be different, if they go with the "villains wanting redemption" route, but that'd be hard to do, since you haven't really seen them go through this journey of being sick and tired of being a punching bag. Personally I love the T-Bolts. The OGs, the OzBolts, the Ellis-Bolts, the Raft-Bolts, everything. But if in 2016 SS is released, and then Marvel comes out with T-Bolts in say, 2017, the GA will complain that the latter is a straight up rip-off. I'm not saying "quality" doesn't matter, but there sure as hell are going to be people going "oh, DC just did that, is Marvel out of ideas already?". Will it affect the show? Who knows. But the majority or maybe a small minority, who knows, will see it as a rip-off. Who gives a Shit if some of the audience thinks it's a rip off. That already happens anyway. Moon knight is often referred to as marvels batman. There is a pretty big difference between a few hundreds of comic fans talking about it on comic forums, and a few thousands on the whole inetrnet. Truth be told, I hear the "DC is much more mature and original than Marvel" phrase a crapton, and it'll always be there. All I'm saying is, that if you want to do a T-Bolts show/movie, then you should go for the "redemption" route instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 DC is banking all these new movies on the belief that audiences will come in with enough of an idea about who the characters are to proceed from there, instead of doing origin stories. Which is fine, the origin story is way overdone, but I feel like they will always be less financially successful because there isn't as much of an investment in these characters when you take that approach. That is certainly why I think in Suicide Squad both Batman and Joker are showing up, to draw those people who aren't familiar with the comics in. And before Marvel can ever get to the Thunderbolts, they are going to have to put a little more effort into their villains and actually give them a reason to want to redeem themselves. You can't do a redemption story for a team of villains in my opinion without first showing us who they are before they turn over that new leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 DC is banking all these new movies on the belief that audiences will come in with enough of an idea about who the characters are to proceed from there, instead of doing origin stories. Which is fine, the origin story is way overdone, but I feel like they will always be less financially successful because there isn't as much of an investment in these characters when you take that approach. That is certainly why I think in Suicide Squad both Batman and Joker are showing up, to draw those people who aren't familiar with the comics in. And before Marvel can ever get to the Thunderbolts, they are going to have to put a little more effort into their villains and actually give them a reason to want to redeem themselves. You can't do a redemption story for a team of villains in my opinion without first showing us who they are before they turn over that new leaf. And that's pretty much my hesitation to be fully invested in a T-Bolts show. If they had a couple of villains left from their big screen movies then yeah, I could see it working. But at this point you don't have enough material to work with and do the redemption route, and if you do the "dangerous missions require dangerous individuals" route, you're risking being called a rip-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmonkey2k Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 why exactly are we talking about suicide squad on the wave 65 thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 What else is there to talk about at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 why exactly are we talking about suicide squad on the wave 65 thread? Because at this point 65 is just a number and speculation's sooooo last year. Meh, it's more fun than everyone posting his dream wave and then getting his hopes crashed when it ultimately is revealed and contains Anime Iron Man and Female Wolverine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marvel has a dark side. It's on Netflix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valo487 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Marvel has a dark side. It's on Netflix. I know. And it's the red-headed stepchild of DST. Right in the feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 red-headed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortysben Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 red-headed Heh, never seen this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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