The Wrestling Thread

[hellpop]

So, yeah, no Raw for me again this week, but I gotta know... was the Jerry Lawler/ CM Punk segment as tasteless as it sounds?

[karamazov80]

It was pretty horrible IMO.

[hellpop]

Watched the clip, and... yeah. Horrible is right. Using Lawler's heart attack to get cheap heel heat on Punk is pretty bad. Having Paul Heyman fake a heart attack... just inexcusable. And why did Foley come out at the end instead of Cena? At least Punk was right about that; it made no sense, as they have no business together any more. I stand by my prediction that Punk looses the title at SS, and at this point I don't even care any more.

[boyd]

No, I think Punk will keep the title (triple threat match will be a lot of Ryback & Cena trading power moves, then Punk getting the quick pin off Cena). They started Raw this week with a graphic of how many days he's held the title - I think they want to push that angle, suddenly make him a dominant champion who's held the title for more than a year, then have him lose the title to the Rock at the Royal Rumble.

And yeah, Raw was horrible this week.

[hellpop]

My prediction is base entirely on the assumption that there's no other reason to change the card at the PPV unless you're planning to take the title off him. Personally, I'd be much happier with Team Punk vs Team Foley, and Cena vs Ziggler. At least those follow the storylines they're still running (terrible though the Cena/AJ "scandal" might be). But I agree that the most logical long-term booking would be Punk dropping the title to Rock, with Cena winning the Rumble, then Cena winning the title at WM (and, hopefully, Punk vs Austin as the second WM main event). This does require a few speculative hunches: 1. Rock's definitely winning the title at the Rumble; 2. Cena's definitely winning the rematch with the Rock, if it happens; 3. A heel Punk won't go over the Rock, anywhere, any time.

[storm 1:08]

I wasn't surprised by anything in the Lawler segment. Come on, they even made fun of Lawler right after his mom died a while back (I think it was Cole during their feud?).

And I haven't really noticed that Vicky isn't Ziggler's manager anymore. Yeah, she's the temporary GM but it didn't hit me until he said she was his former manager during Wednesday's Main Event. Very happy he is getting a lot of mic time now and not sharing with Vicky.

At this point, it should be Team ADR vs Team Orton or Team Ziggler vs Team Miz and Foley should be the ref for the 3-way. And Foley doing the 3 count unwillingly for Punk would have been good future setup. That would have saved this mess for me, at least. But either way, Punk ain't going to lose. Maybe to Rock in the future (at RR or WM) but I'm sure Punk will take the title back from the Rock after his short stint in the media as the WWE Champ.

[hellpop]

There's no way the Rock puts Punk over. No way at all.

[karamazov80]

Stranger things have happened. . .probably.

And the Lawler thing didn't surprise me either. But it was horrible, nonetheless.

[storm 1:08]

Well, I'm going by the assumption that there will be a Punk/Rock feud with Rock winning the title then. But once he has the title, there's a short list of people who can seemingly beat him: Cena, HHH (inactive), Undertaker (inactive), Brock (inactive), and Punk. So if he becomes champ, it's pretty much Cena or Punk that takes the title away. Even if Brock wins the championship from Rock, Cena and Punk (to a lesser degree) are still the only legitimate contenders for the title. Maybe Cena is the most likely to get the title back in the end as it has been a while, but I'm still hoping Punk gets the rub from Rocky. Again, assuming Rock wins the title from Punk at some point. :tongue:

[karamazov80]

I think there are some x factors that could be pushed as legit contenders against the Rock if McMahon really wanted to in Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, Seamus, Big Show, and Randy Orton. I agree that they aren't there right now, but I can see any of those guys being there.

[MiniFiend UK]

I'm a bit out of touch with WWE at the moment. last thing I watched was HIAC and the last match kinda burned me out and nothing much of what I have heard about catches my attention.

Anyway Survivor Series tonight and I used to be a big fan of the traditional 4/5 man tag matches in this PPV. I wont be watching live it as its one you have to pay for in the UK so I will wait to get it from a friend who sorts out my ROH.

Predictions anyway.

WWE Title Triple Threat

John Cena vs. Ryback vs. CM Punk (Plz Plz for Punk to retain...Ryback and Cena to have somesort of miscue wrestling mishap like Cena getting meathook clotheslined by mistake and Punk takes advantage for the Dick Dasterdly win.)

World Heavyweight Title Match

Sheamus vs. Big Show (Big Show to retain. Sheamus to go and wrestle Cesaro.)

Traditional Survivor Series Match

Team Foley: The Miz, Randy Orton, Kane, Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston vs. Team Ziggler: Damien Sandow, Wade Barrett, Alberto Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler and a possible replacement for Cody Rhodes (I did want Team Ziggler to win but I can see Team Foley winning with a continued face turn for Miz and a heelish side to Orton. I just think with Miz having some media profile increasing due. 2 films and a part in Foleys book

That WWE would want hime a good guy for all the promotions.)

WWE United States Title Match

R-Truth vs. Antonio Cesaro (Antoino to retain. R Truth connects well with the crowd can wrestle but I dont think he is the guy to beat Cesaro yet.)

WWE Divas Title Match

Kaitlyn vs. Eve Torres (Meh who cares. not me thats for sure.)

YouTube Pre-show Match

Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel vs. Heath Slater and Jinder Mahal (gota go with Slater/Mahal. Not that bothered the 3MB hasn't done anything for me but them to win.)

[storm 1:08]

There probably won't be any surprises tonight. All champions will most likely retain.

I always liked the traditional Survivor Series match too and I'm expecting it to be the highlight tonight. It feels rather tainted not being Team Punk vs Team Foley. But at least there's some intrigue to the match instead of a Ryback eliminating most of the other team scenario. Team Foley seems to be a powder keg ready to explode, especially with Miz. And will Rhodes or won't Rhodes? I'd rather have Ricardo replace him with Rhodes possibly doing a run-in to eliminate Kane and/or goatface. But yeah, Orton/Miz seems foreshadowed after the Ziggler/Miz feud. Probably will be a Orton/Miz/Ziggler feud to slowly build up Miz, slowly turn Orton (finally!), and give Ziggler more time to show off before he cashes in.

[hellpop]

Ended up tuning in for the Main Event....

Punk retains. Yay. But another schmozz finish. Rybeck hits his finisher (Shell Shock, I believe?) on Punk, but Cena saves him. Then Rybeck hits it on Cena. As soon as he does, three NXT guys come out from the crowd and jump Rybeck. They beat him down, take him outside, and Power Bomb him through the Spanish Announce Table. Punk crawls back in the ring, and apparently the Shell Shock is the most devastating move ever, because even Superman himself can't recover from it after several minutes of rest. Match itself was okay, certainly better then the HIAC match. But Rybeck sure doesn't add a whole lot. My favorite part was Cena and Punk allying at one point and putting Rybeck through a table (yes, Rybeck went through two tables). Whatever, Punk's champ for a full year.

Dunno what happened with the rest of the card, sorry.

Edited November 19, 2012 by hellpop

[karamazov80]

I caught the bulk of the PPV, and it was a'aight. The Survivor Series match itself was interesting. Came down to Miz and Orton vs. del Rio and Ziggler, then Orton and Ziggler, and Ziggler somehow won with a Superkick while Orton was running in for the soccer kick. I liked the ending.

Thought the main even ending was kind of lame, but glad to see that Tyler Black will be appearing on TV now, apparently as part of a Punk stable with evil ref and a couple of other up-and-comers.

[storm 1:08]

Well there was a surprise at the end...

I didn't watch but just read the quick results. Not sure how they are going to pull off the explanation of the 3 attackers yet. You just know it has to be Heyman pulling the strings in the background. Seth Rollins seems a little hard to explain as he's the good guy NXT champ. He did have an encounter with CM Punk on NXT and it seemed to be a somewhat of a mutual respect between them. Either way, I'm happy for new blood with high potential (particularly Seth Rollins/Tyler Black).

[karamazov80]

I don't think WWE proper has to acknowledge much of what was going on on NXT in terms of storylines, who was good/bad, etc. since 98%+ of viewers won't know anything about it (I really don't, even though I probably should as I suspect the matches are much better than what we typically get on regular TV). Probably enough to just say what Cole or whomever was saying last night, "hey, that's X Y and Z from NXT!"

[hellpop]

Spoilery responses to K80 and Storm's spoilery responses....

My problem with the ending last night is that it's essentially the same as last month's ending (Rybeck's about to win, suffers a sneak attack, Punk capitalizes). This one was better then Referee Ball Shot, though. I don't think we can say yet if these guys are allied with Heyman and Punk yet, though, since they had no interaction with those two. Of course, if this is just "guys from NXT looking to make a splash"... well... that sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?

Sounds like the WHC match had a classic Dusty finish (Show accidentally knocks out the ref, then Sheamus pins him, but the original ref wakes up to disqualify Show). Nonsense. I don't mind them keeping Sheamus strong, though. And I'm glad that Ziggler won clean over Orton. I do wish the WWE would reestablish Orton a bit, but with him being one strike away from termination, I understand that they don't want to invest a lot in him any more. But I'm all for Dolph looking strong.

My guess is that tonight will be a CM Punk anniversary celebration, which could be fun. Might we finally see a new title belt?

[karamazov80]

I did think the ending to the main event last night was weak overall, and demonstrated little creativity and excitement. Maybe they're building to something, but. . .

[hellpop]

Caught a little Raw. Interesting that they are still referring to Brad Maddox (that was his name, right?). Enjoyed the end segment. Wonder how Vince felt about Heyman saying that Bruno Sammartino should be in the Hall (Vince and Bruno don't get along). It was funny to look at the chart of longest reigns, because there's one (I think it was Cena) that ends at 380, and then the next one is over 1000 days. Pretty obvious where Punk's going to end up on that list.

So my new long term booking prediction is that Punk's going to retain against the Rock at the Rumble; Rock winning the belt from Punk and then dropping it at WM to Cena is just too obvious, isn't it? Plus, there's the fact that a Cena WM win is likely to be booed at 'Mania by the inevitable smark crowd. So I'm going with Punk over Rock, but by DQ or some other chicanery, something indecisive, setting up Punk/Rock/Cena at WM. I think having Punk carry the belt through then will truly feel epic, and Cena's inevitable win will feel like a genuine WrestleMania moment. And then we get Austin/Punk next year, hopefully.

[storm 1:08]

It was funny to look at the chart of longest reigns, because there's one (I think it was Cena) that ends at 380, and then the next one is over 1000 days. Pretty obvious where Punk's going to end up on that list.

Under Cena, right? So less than 15 days left on his title reign? I'm glad they made that poster to show off on Raw. Didn't realize no one will ever crack that top tier.

Wow, that Hell No segment really caught my attention. Usually it is due to Hell No themselves but not this time. Titus O'Neil on commentary was just pure entertainment! It was a train wreck but a darn entertaining one! Washrag. Haha. I always loved him once he turned bad on NXT Redemption. Any time he gets on the mic, I always listen.

Did it bother anyone else that the ending to Raw was very, very similar to Survivor Series?

[hellpop]

It bothered me more that the ending of Survivor Series was very, very similar to Hell in a Cell.

No, this didn't really bother me. They're trying to establish this new group, and having them take out Rybeck two nights in a row is a good way to do it. If you analyze the end, there are some important differences: Rybeck was clearly expecting these guys, was fresh, and initially fought them off. The fact that they were able to overcome that and still put him through an announce table again is impressive. And I liked Punk's reaction too. Oh, and thumbs up to Rybeck for selling the beating so well.

So it looks like we're back to our regularly scheduled Cena/AJ/Dolph/Vicki feud, with Superfly's daughter (sorry, can't think of her name, too lazy to look it up) inserted as the Vicki proxy so we can have a proper mixed tag team showdown. Not really sure what it will prove, ultimately; I mean, the inference here is that John Cena cheated on his wife with one of the Divas, right? Everybody sees that, right? So how winning a match will change that is unclear to me. Very weird storyline, but I think a Cena/Ziggler match could be really good.

[storm 1:08]

Cena is single now (or at least not married). He went through a divorce early this year or late last year or something. I think it was the TLC last year when he wasn't even on the card for the first time in a while. Supposedly was messy but not too many details leaked out to the public, as much of it shouldn't.

I don't get where the scandal is going other than Vicky going to be replaced later by someone else (a good guy RAW GM?). Tamina Snuka is just fodder for AJ before she goes after Eve probably at Wrestlemania. Still confused if Cena is legitimately injured or not. I hope not as I'm looking forward to this feud, but even so, that dude needs some rest.

I'm still getting used to Ryback showing weakness. I like it and did think it was impressive the 3 took him down in a back and forth fight. Wasn't sure if the Survivor Series ending was just a one-sided beat down or not. Just seemed the same to me at the time.

Edited November 20, 2012 by storm 1:08

[boyd]

I don't get where the scandal is going other than Vicky going to be replaced later by someone else (a good guy RAW GM?).

Popular rumor is Ric Flair will take over as GM once the WWE / TNA lawsuits are resolved.

[hellpop]

Yes, I should have been clearer when I said "cheated on his wife", I meant that his time with AJ would have coincided with the end of his marriage, and that his affair with AJ likely caused it, in the storyline at least. Anyway, the whole angle is stupid. I don't get anyone's motivation; Vicki's already the GM, so what does she care if AJ and Cena are messin' around? If AJ's already been fired as GM, why are they still hiding? And why's Dolph even involved, other then that Vicki's his manager (or was)? It's just a real, real, real bad storyline.

[karamazov80]

Hey, so long as the writers don't have Cena more focused on the title, the better the chance that Punk can hold onto the title longer. If they can't come up with a storyline that makes any sense in the process, well. . .what else is new?