The Wrestling Thread

[storm 1:08]

Ryback with Heyman would definitely signal a new Dangerous Alliance and I'd approve of it. But other than Cena, Orton, and Sheamus there's no other singles good guy around currently. And yeah, Heyman is redundant, but he is so entertaining to watch even when he isn't speaking. He does background sleazy very well. Always holding the title up in the air like he's the champ. Fondling the title when Punk is on the mic. The Punk/Heyman hi five is classic! They need to do that more often!

[hellpop]

But other than Cena, Orton, and Sheamus there's no other singles good guy around currently.

Kofi Kingston just shed a tear.

But yeah, I agree that top babyfaces are a big problem for the WWE right now. It's much easier for them to get guys booed then cheered. I would have rather seen Orton challenge Punk, myself, but I guess building up another ME guy is a good idea. I just wish it wasn't someone so one dimensional.

Anyway, I love Heyman with Punk. I think it adds just the right extra element to Punk's character, and I think Punk is better when he's got someone to play off of. I really hope that WWE realizes what an onscreen asset Heyman is, and that they can get instant credibility for a young guy they think will be a superstar by pairing him with Heyman.

[Turtle]

I don't follow the wrestling, but my wife, a middle-school librarian, just texted to say that Kofi Kingston, Alicia Fox, and someone else are at her school right now. They are doing some kind of anti-bullying campaign.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Turtle

[karamazov80]

Yeah, CM Punk (WWE Champion) made a comment during his famous "pipe bomb" speech from last year to say McMahon (WWE owner--perceived to be a massive bully to just about everybody) was a hypocrite for spearheading an anti-bullying campaign.

Edited October 16, 2012 by karamazov80

[storm 1:08]

I don't follow the wrestling, but my wife, a middle-school librarian, just texted to say that Kofi Kingston, Alicia Fox, and someone else are at her school right now. They are doing some kind of anti-bullying campaign.

That's cool. I wish WWE wrestlers would visit my school when I was younger. And I wouldn't mind taking a photo with Alicia Fox. Too bad your wife couldn't get a photo with Kofi and a random Marvel Minimate. He's pretty big comic book guy, I hear. Always curious if they collect minimates too. One of you guys ain't Kofi, are ya?

But yeah, Kofi seems to be the safe choice on the next one who will break into the main event scene. I was expecting him to win Money In The Bank this year. I'm actually looking forward to a long term feud with him and the Miz so he can get more mic time.

[karamazov80]

One of you guys ain't Kofi, are ya?

Guilty as charged! I'm really Kofi Annan, though.

Not sure I see Kofi going into the main event, at least not consistently. He's a great in-ring talent, but kind of bland on the mike and the fans don't seem to feel all that strongly about him. I don't think he has "it" in other words.

[hellpop]

At this point I'd be surprised if Kofi ever got there. And that's fine, really; not everybody has to reach the main event. Quite a lot of fine careers have been had by men that stayed mostly on the midcard, and it's only recently that we've seen those type of guys given even short-term title runs, kind of a lifetime achievement award. I think Kofi's best hope is to stick around as a guy that's over and has good matches; his problem is that he's really not much of a technician in the ring. But he's got a flashy moveset and gets the crowd involved, and that's a lot more then you can say for many other talents these days.

[storm 1:08]

Guilty as charged! I'm really Kofi Annan, though.

Ah, the K stands for Kofi, huh?

I just kind of see Kofi eventually on the Rey Mysterio main event type track. Reliable. Well loved. Good matches. Decent enough on mic. Can fill a void in the main event status when needed (which seems to be now). I mean, Mysterio's runs as champ haven't been that memorable but he keeps floating in and out of the main event circuit helping elevate others. I don't even think he's held the belt that often or very long in either case. But you wouldn't call Mysterio mid-card, right? Kofi just needs to be taken seriously like Mysterio and hopefully not fall like Swagger or Shelton Benjamin. I just never really meant he'd be the next John Cena, but the guy who's constantly next to the "Cena" on posters, DVDs, video game covers, etc.

[karamazov80]

See, I actually do consider Mysterio a mid-carder, and any championship runs he had felt, to me, like the "lifetime achievement award" Hellpop was talking about. Despite his juicing and bulking up, he never seemed to be treated as a legit main eventer by Vince et al. Same as what Benoit and Guerrero got honestly, or even Christian or Booker T. Nothing wrong with that, but genuine, legit champs are few and far between in my view. There is a place for those guys competing with championship wrestlers, giving them good matches, etc. but they never feel like more than "placeholders" waiting for the next Cena, Orton, Triple H, or Rock to come and take the title back where it belongs. I think Edge, Jericho, and CM Punk have transitioned into legit. champs at some point despite not being muscle-bound freaks. But it sure wasn't easy for them to do, and all those guys are genuinely special in ways that others aren't.

Edited October 17, 2012 by karamazov80

[storm 1:08]

Well, I guess I'm a little looser with my definitions. But lifetime achievement awards, I think we can agree on some of those, like Christian and Mark Henry. Not sure if Khali deserves his own category because he doesn't really fit in with them. Jericho would have been in that category but he broke through with his feud with HBK and became much more amazing. And hey, let's just say it, the World Heavyweight title is part lifetime achievement award belt for veterans.

[MiniFiend UK]

Anyone for predictions on HIAC?

I'll have a quick go and my reasoning on them.

CM Punk © vs. Ryback in a Hell In A Cell Match for the WWE Championship (This is the hard call, Punks long reign vs Rybacks undefeated streak. Both are good for WWE but what is worth more? I'm going for Punk to retain but with some sort of interference so he does. In a perfect world I would have Lesner cause Rybacks loss. This can be easly glossed over by WWE as they can say it took more than 1 guy to beat Ryback and it can lead into a perfect PPV match later when Lesner leaves where Ryback pins him cleanly to make him leave WWE automaticly making Ryback a monster star, as someone like Cena causing Lesner to leave doesn't elevate Cena in any useful way.)

Sheamus © vs. The Big Show in a Hell In A Cell Match for the World Heavyweight Championship (Don't care on the out come of this I just hope Ziggler can cash in and take the belt from who ever. Ziggler with the belt can bring into the title picture Orton and Kofi which depending on who Ziggler beats can mean there can be 4 guys chasing the champion and all the combinations that can make.)

Kofi Kingston © vs. The Miz for the WWE Intercontinental Championship

(Kofi to retain putting the belt on Miz gains nothing and keeping it with Kofi helps build him up for I see a future feud with Ziggler.)

Team Hell No (Kane & Daniel Bryan) © vs. Team Rhodes Scholars (Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow) for the WWE Tag Team Championship (Rhodes and Sandow to win. I'm a fan of Theam Hell No but the belts need to go on Sandow and Rhodes just to build them up.)

Eve Torres © vs. Layla vs. Kaitlyn in a triple threat match for the WWE Divas Championship

(another boring match I couldnt pick out the champion now in a line up of divas so dont care.)

Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio (Boring match for me as I'm not a fan of either but I would go with Orton as I see Sheamus losing and they will need a face to chase the title.)

[storm 1:08]

This isn't really a solid prediction on each match but I'm thinking that if Ryback wins, all other championship matches have the current champions retaining. It might make Ryback winning get a bigger crowd reaction if it's the only title that changes hands. But if any championship title changes hands, Punk retains.

Ryback or Punk winning is very hard to call, which honestly makes it interesting. The only last few matches that were hard to call were Rock/Cena at Wrestlemania and Punk/Cena at Chicago. I personally don't want Ryback to win but if he does, he and creative better bring something really really good to the table. I am not a Ryback supporter yet but if this brings about some change that makes things interesting on TV, then I'll go with it.

[hellpop]

I'd be stunned if Rybeck wins. STUNNED. Honestly, I think the only reason they'd do it would be for the swerve, because the guy is clearly not ready for the title. I mean, has the guy even cut a promo beyond "feed me more"? My prediction is that Punk plays Ric Flair for the evening: looking like a chickenshit heel while making Rybeck look like a million bucks and escaping with the title. I do agree with Minifiend that having Lesnar interfere, setting up Rybeck vs Lesnar is the way to go. However, I have a hard time believing that Lesnar would put Rybeck over.

As for the other matches... I can't really see any of the champions loosing. Big Show will probably never hold a title again, except as a transitional champ; what would be the point of putting him over Sheamus? I'd really love this to be Ziggler's moment, but it seems too obvious. I'd actually like to see them have Ziggler cash in, loose, but get a shot at the next PPV and go over there. I guess they could hotshot the IC belt back to Miz, but why? And I don't think Hell No's loosing any time soon; I think they're rebuilding the tag division around these guys, and that they're going to enjoy a long reign (like, up to and including WrestleMania long reign).

Finally, I think Eve will retain after a hard fought back and forth triple-threat when she employs her deadly... OH, WHO THE HELL CARES?

[karamazov80]

I can imagine Big Show winning, and remaining champ for a little while. Why not? Could create some nice conflict forcing a face to actually have to compete for the Smackdown title. And I think Show deserves a legitimate run (certainly more than Mark Henry did).

I can easily see HellNo losing, but it wouldn't shock me either way.

I can't see Ryback winning the belt. I hope McMahon cares enough about all of us not to allow that.

[storm 1:08]

Finally, I think Eve will retain after a hard fought back and forth triple-threat when she employs her deadly... OH, WHO THE HELL CARES?

You mean her deadly spinning fisherman's neckbreaker finisher. I NEED to know who is the mystery attacker!!! Was it Eve? Teddy Long? Or Rikishi?

And well, "they" are saying that Vince wants Ryback to win for shock value and that HHH wants Punk to win as to not upset the boys. Who knows? Am I expecting a clean finish, though? Nope. Maybe Vicky will pull a Montreal screwjob when Punk puts the Anaconda Vice on.

But Hell No can't lose yet. Not until DB slaps Kane back and Kane responds with a "YES!" :biggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjjbBr6ram8

[hellpop]

So, against my better judgement, I tuned into Punk/RyBack, and... wow. Just wow. Maybe the worst match I've ever seen.

Ryback dominated throughout, with Punk looking beyond weak. At one point, Punk even hid under the ring for several seconds, while Heyman pleaded with Ryback, "he's a human being!" Punk then blasted him with a fire extinguisher. The two had no real chemistry, with Ryback just squashing any momentum that Punk built up. But the finish... it's the finish that really sets this match apart. Ryback had Punk up for his finisher (I refuse to say its' name), and is doing his march. But then the ref gets in front of him, stops him, and drops down and gives him a ball shot. Punk rolls RyBack up, and the ref even helps hold Ryback's legs down while he gives a fast count. Unbelievable.

After the match, Punk and the ref are desperate to get out of the cage, but Ryback gets to them before the outside ref can open the padlock. Ryback disposes of Punk, then goes to work on the ref. Finally, Punk is literally crawling out of the cage, and Ryback turns back to him. The two of them end up on top of the cage, where Ryback hits his finisher and stands tall. No Cena, no Lesnar, just garbage. In trying to make Ryback look like a monster, they made Punk look like a complete fraud. If this is how he's got to win, just take the belt off him.

Big Show won the world title, by the way, in a poor match that looks like Hart and Austin at WrestleMania in comparison to the main event.

[karamazov80]

I saw the PPV tonight in-between watching the Saints game, and agree about the main event. Not sure what the whole point was, and the finish was beyond lame. Maybe they will be able to better sell it all after the fact tomorrow.

[storm 1:08]

Well, you gotta admit, Ryback/Punk got us to tune in. Cena/Punk wouldn't have gotten this much buzz even though it'd be a much much better match and make sense storyline-wise.

I don't even know if we need spoilers since it is just a small group of us but I will conform for common courtesy.

I love that ref now! When I saw him as the ref, I was thinking he's going to take a hard bump and another ref will have to step in while Ryback makes the pin or something. But he saved the match! I was jumping in joy once I saw the low blow! Punk winning is all that mattered to me. As for the match quality, what did you expect? I never went on twitter during a show before to see what people are saying. But I did during that match just to entertain myself. Punk didn't look like a 10th longest reign champ. He looked like a first title defense cheap heel champ. Anyway, I'm thinking Vicky instructed the ref to make sure Punk wins and Cena will expose her later.

As for Big Show winning, at least it gives Sheamus something to do as I think he was starting to get a little stale if he kept winning. But man, I know people can fireman carry Big Show. But that White Noise? That took me by surprise as I thought that was one of those moves that can't happen. It was amazing seeing it for the first time!

[hellpop]

Eh, I do the spoiler tags just in case someone's saving it or something. I know we've got some UK fans that don't tune in 'till the next day. But it's probably not a big deal.

The problem with the main event is that they oversold Punk being afraid of Ryback. He didn't just look like a chickenshit heel, but a complete coward and an unworthy champ. That shouldn't happen. And it undercut the match itself, because Ryback was too dominant; he never seemed remotely in trouble. So, when he made his comeback after Punk got in a bit of offense, the crowd barely reacted (not that they were very hot to begin with). And why wouldn't VInce have just come back out and restarted the match with a new ref? Bad match, bad story, bad finish.

Yeah, Sheamus hitting White Noise (man, I hate that name) was impressive. I'll be interested to see where they go from here; if Sheamus can come back and take the title, it will make him look stronger then a straight victory would, I think.

[karamazov80]

I agree about Punk not feeling like a legit champ. If you are really one of the top handful of guys in the company, then you shouldn't seem incapable of even hurting (much less legitimately beating) any opponent IMO. When Flair fought Vader back in the day, he was able to fight back against the onslaught and seem like he could legitimately win. But the WWE put themselves into this hole because they obviously still want to sell Ryback as Goldberg V.2, and that would stop dead in its tracks if Punk was able to beat him fairly (or even after wearing him down a great deal and then cheating at the end). Just not good booking in my opinion. Even if they wanted Ryback to win, it should not have been an extended squash match.

[storm 1:08]

I am amazed that the WWE completely changed the Survivor Series main event. I was happy enough that the Survivor Series match had some importance and not just random guys thrown together with little at stake. Granted, nothing really was at stake with Punk and Ryback but it would have at least built up the feud a little. I'm more bitter because I was looking forward to a Ziggler/Cena feud. Yeah, sure it probably should have been the Punk/Cena/Ryback match from the start but I thought it was smart to bring Foley in as a temporary mouthpiece for Ryback. But Foley makes no sense now. That ref/Vicky/Vince segment was just a little tough to swallow. I hope that rogue ref doesn't get screwed in the end and just fizzles away slowly after Ryback eats him. I'd hate to see wasted talent get future endeavored by a bad management decision.

[karamazov80]

I was wondering what was going on with the Survivor Series change. Kind of weird to make that kind of major change mid-stream.

[Hav]

Anyone here buy the new wwe 13 game on ps3? It yes my game tag is " reyfx." if anyone wants to form a minimate stable hit me up.

[Freaqualizer]

I'm addicted to WWE 13 right now. I'm freaqualizer. I'm about to upload my caw this year. Hit me up!

[hellpop]

I haven't watched Raw in weeks. I have kept up with the recaps, but I just don't have any desire to watch. But yeah, the whole Survivor Series thing is weird. I was more interested in Team Punk vs Team Foley and Cena vs Ziggler then I am in the triple threat. The ONLY reason I can think to switch the card around is that they've decided to take the title off Punk.