A vs X

[Lobsterman]

Is anyone reading this?

I thought the first issue was okay, with the most interesting part (IMO) being the conversation between Cap and Cyclops. It sets up the conflict between the teams, although I'm still not sure I buy how/why old friends are going to come to blows. it is starting to feel a bit like Civil War; two well-intentioned groups of people disagree, a misunderstanding causes things to go wacky, something really bad happens, everyone gets their heads together and stops fighting.

Which brings me to a suspicion I have about this whole setup: are they going to kill off Cyclops during this event?

Growing up, I was never a huge Cyclops fan. I always felt like he was written alternately as flat and without personality and obnoxiously whiney and indecisive. Neither one struck me as a great quality for a leader, so he always felt like just a dopey stooge for Xavier. I stopped reading comics for a lot of the 90's, so I missed what happened then, but I picked back up with Morrison's run on New X-men. He was still whiney, but at least his relationship with Emma introduced something interesting to his character. Then Whedon took over on Astonishing, and he became one of my favorite characters. He turned decisive, willing to make hard calls (like kicking Prof. to the curb!), and generally a bad ass who could get shit done despite having a comparatively b-grade mutant power. And not a cocky, smarmy bad ass like Fantomex, or a grizzled, seen-to-much bad ass like Wolverine. Just a bad ass who already had a plan in motion while the other guys were still thinking up their quips. He was really the leader of the X-men.

But the X-universe is only big enough for one true alpha dog, and that, of course, has to be Wolverine. So, we've seen Scott gradually written from the cool, self-assured, unquestioned leader to a semi-marginalized, increasingly fanatical-seeming zealot whose team and MO basically look like the Brotherhood. But he's still high enough on the Marvel totem pole and well-liked enough that his death could be the shocking, "changes everything forever" fulcrum on which every Marvel event has to turn. They could make it a heroic send-off, like he realizes the error of his ways and makes some kind of save-the-world self-sacrifice move parallel to the original Dark Phoenix saga, and gets to go to the Phoenix Room or whatever with this true love, Jean, etc. All of the popular mutants already moved back to Westchester with Logan, so Emma and Namor will head off into the sunset, Juggerlossus and his sister will wander off on some spirit quest, and Magneto will go back to being Magneto. Nice and tidy. Media-wise it makes sense because there aren't any movies coming out with Cyclops (he died in the last X-movie that audience remembers, and who knows if they'll use him in the First Class sequel), and Wolverine is without question the "real world" face of the X-men. So, they wouldn't need to bring him back in a hurry.

I don't know. It seems like a very Bendis kind of thing to do. I'll be sad if it happens, but I can see it.

[Nessex]

I've only read #0 . . . but your assessment seems spot on.

I was a bit p!ssed about seeing a lot of my favourite characters heading east. The big hitters left on utopia aren't exactly tied to it. Storm is already appearing in an avengers book, so they've already found her a new home. Psylocke is (somehow) appearing on both sides of the coast already - so i'm sure she'll just settle back in with X-Force. Warpath might even go with her.

There seems to have been very little effort put into making Cyclops likeable over the past 5 years. I was kind of hoping it was so that he could turn a corner and come fighting back, but i'm sad to say that your theory is probably more likely

I like Cyclops for a few reasons. Nostalgia plays a large part. My love of Jean is another. The fact that he is not Wolverine helps a lot too. Maybe the main reason is that i have had so many years invested with him as the heir to the leader of the x-men. When he took over from Xavier, it felt like the pieces were finally starting to come together. If he is killed off, after being wwritten as a total jerk for the last 5 years, i think i'll feel a bit like we've all spent years preparing for nothing.

[khonshu knight]

I got to read #1 and #0 infinite, and so far the fight seem a little one sided. On one side you have the Avengers, with Thor being their heavy hitter (and possibly Valkyrie?) and on the X-men's side there's a few omega level mutants like Mag-freaking-neato, Magik, Hope, Colossunaught, and Namor.

After what Mags did with the Worldbreaker Bullet, he can cake on the Avengers by himself (which he has done in the past).

Why he didn't just dismantled the Helicarrier once it appears is beyond me.

So far the writting seems like its gonna be mid-tier compared to other events and probably end up killing Hope or nerfing her because of Phoenix force and that will either turn Cyke like his Earth X counterpart or toning down his character.

Edited April 6, 2012 by khonshu knight

[WookieFodder]

Cyclops should fake his own death and then take over for Wolvie on X-Force. Or Magneto should do more with X-Force. Imagine a Black and grey Magneto costume.

Or maybe Hope dies (can that happen?) and Cyclops starts leading X-Force to kill tons of folks.

I have thought before they might kill him off, but what's the point I always thought to myself. Besides the Uncanny X-Men team is so badass now and the last 9 issues have been spectacular.

Minor Spoiler: Like when Namor "ate" that fish.

[undeadpool]

ive read most of childrens crusade (waiting for paperback), all of X-sanction and AVX 0 and 1, i also went to the panel at wondercon, so ive been kinda excited for this. So far its no Civil War, but there is definitely some interesting stuff here. I think Scott has totally lost it, his team is sticking together by a single thread. Wolverine's approach seems to be working much better than Scott's and Cyclops is overcompensating for this by becoming Magneto. Eric sees this and is sort of staying out of it, he will step in when the time is right, but even he knows the raw power of the Phoenix, people have tried to control it before and failed, somehow Scott is forgetting this. The Avengers seem to be the good guys in this, yes they are prepared to execute hope if she becomes the phoenix full on, but they also want to try and save her from it, something Logan can agree with, Scott is trying to militarize the phoenix force which is why wolverine is working with the Avengers on this one, same goes for Hank. I find it interesting that Pym appeared with them, seeing as he is a teacher and recently had a run in with some X-youngsters

my guesses:

1.Wanda will battle with the phoenix in an epic final showdown, which will kill them both

2.Jean Grey will return

3.Noh-Var will die and he will tell Carol to be the Captain Marvel, the earth needs

4.All of this is is a distraction, Ultron is using this to plan his attack which will lead into age of ultron (Marvel stole my Age of V stick)

5.Cyclops will breakdown emotionally, he will end up reconnecting with Logan but will have to do time for his actions, this will complete him becoming Magneto and Logan becoming Prof X

6.Utopia will be destroyed but the Avengers will be more pro active in Mutant rights.

7. Cable will kill an Avenger which will cause them to consider using anti mutant tech, ALA X-sanction

8. Emma will return to her Hellfire ways

[highassroller]

My bets are that it is Hope that dies, not Cyclops. I was surprised how consistent JRJ artwork is on this title. I found the individual panels to look terrible, but as a whole the artwork did not bother me at all. Overall excited to see where this goes, but hoping they represent the characters accurately.

[Kostisfire]

My bet is that iron fist will die protecting hope or he becomes the Phoenix. Haven't read it yet but I plan to order a big batch of comics through lone star comics.

[Mirymate]

My Cyclops theory is two fold... part one is his merger with Apocolypse that eventually led to his cheating on Jean. I think Nur left a larger mark on Scott's soul than anyone suspected, as his actions the last 5 years have been more consistent with Apoc's "Survival of the Fittest" doctrine than Scott's own. Sure Scott's is "Survival at ANY cost", but for the day Jean an Nathan "rescued" Scott, his actions have been increasingly morally questionable.

Part two is Emma... no I don't think she's mentally influencing him with her powers. But every man in a long term relationship knows their partners influence their actions. Emma is a morally gray elitist, well known for taking an ends-justify-the-means approach. The longer they are together, the more Scott has become that way too. Jean would have busted his balls and pushed him back on a moral path ages ago, Emma supports his current kind of thinking.

The shame is that they have so neutered Xaivier that he's relegated to the sidelines in all this.

Wanda will survive it all. Jean will return. Utpoia will sink. Some second and third tiers on both sides will die. (I'm looking at you, Danger) Magneto will be considered a bad guy again when all is said and done. Hope will be the new Phoenix host.

[dj87]

It is an absolute shame the way writers have treated Scott in recent years, simply for standing in the way of Wolverine leading every team Marvel can think up. Most comic stories are as bad as wanky internet fan fiction these days, and there is an increasingly troubling correlation between number of title and being 'bad ass'... not all comic readers are 10. Naff.

[Mirymate]

And to the Civil War comparison...

These 2 are being knuckle heads, but it's not nearly as dumb as CW. Tony only explained his reasoning exactly once, in a Spidey special, but by then Bill Foster was dead and the time for talk was over. If Tony and Steve had sat down like adults when it became clear the law was going to pass and Tony explained his thinking, then the whole darn thing could have been avoided. But Bendis's Tony didn't consider Cap an equal, hence his exclusion from the "Illuminati", so Tony and Reed orchastrate things. (Why Reed never caught hell for his part in Clor et all, I don't know.) Point was if the two main characters had been acting in character, it would have never happened.

Unfortunately, Cyc is acting within his current character. So a fight is unavoidable.

[undeadpool]

But Miry, Cap and Ironman did get together to talk it out during the war, they met in the old Avengers Mansion and had a discussion as to why they were fighting, ofcourse, i started reading comics in 2006 (started with new, then went back to the classics) so what i consider "in character" may be different then your interpretation

[Mirymate]

Didn't say during, before the war. I know hey met at the mansion, that was in the Spidey special I mentioned. But by then it was too late to talk.

[khonshu knight]

I remember seeing a picture or something with Iron Fist and the Phoenix fore. Can't remember where.

[undeadpool]

Didn't say during, before the war. I know hey met at the mansion, that was in the Spidey special I mentioned. But by then it was too late to talk.

im talking about Ironman/Captain America: Casualties of War #1A

After the death of Goliath, the two meet up in the mansion and debate, they talk about each others past and how it has lead to this and they admit that they should have talked sooner, but it does show why the fight is happening by using past instances to back up both arguments

[dj87]

again, that too is during the war, if Goliath is already dead.

[Mirymate]

Once Tony and Reed unleashed Clor, who blew that hole in Bill Foster's chest, continued fighting was the only option. (Although I remember thinking at the time "How is Hank sticking with the Pro-SHRA side when he/they just killed his best friend?" Now we know.) And I confess I may have the issue wrong, I have it in my head it's a Spider-Man tie in because of the Cap accurately points out Peter's "Father issues" more bluntly than anyone has before. But I do remember thinking Tony's position was the correct one and Cap was being ridiculous, despite Iron Man's actions which were editorially designed make him the "bad guy". For those unfamiliar, Tony was initially as opposed to the SHRA as Steve, until he realized it was going to pass Congress no matter what. So rather than allow someone like Gyrich to head the program, (which we can all agree would have been a billion times worse) Tony decided to volunteer for the job himself. But we were supposed to think of Tony as an evil government stooge, so this rarely popped up in thought balloons in his own book, let alone out loud. Cause we weren't supposed to want to choose Iron Man's side.

And to my larger point, a quick chat over coffee at the Assembly table before the fighting started would have prevented the whole contrived mess if both men were written in character.

But in AvX, both men are acting in character (Cyc's current character at least)

[hellpop]

You know what bugged me about Civil War? It belonged in the DC Universe. Iron Man and Captain America weren't acting like Iron Man and Captain America, but rather Superman and Batman. But it's just another example how the writers during the Quesada era don't care about writing the characters to match their established personalities, but to fit their stories. They'll pound round pegs into square holes if it suits them; Cyclops is just the latest casualty.

[undeadpool]

You know what bugged me about Civil War? It belonged in the DC Universe. Iron Man and Captain America weren't acting like Iron Man and Captain America, but rather Superman and Batman. But it's just another example how the writers during the Quesada era don't care about writing the characters to match their established personalities, but to fit their stories. They'll pound round pegs into square holes if it suits them; Cyclops is just the latest casualty.

i felt like cap may have been out of character, but Tony seemed accurate to me, he reminded me of his actions during the Armor Wars and he even admitted he was considering going back to alcohol, i feel like that desperation also caused him to act a little "out of character"

also i actually am writing a fan fic of a DC civil war based on the marvel event since it fits them much better

lastly id like to add that i predict Kid Omega will become the host of the phoenix force at the end of this, but he will keep this a secret

[fatcow]

I am wondering what the repercussions of this event will be...I mean I do know the Marvel hype machine is very good at their job, they can get me hyped up for anything, and to be honest, as a comic book I do love being excited. I want to see something new happen...I can't articulate what I want to see otherwise I would be writing the comic.

Jean Grey is great, would love to see her back, but in what capacity? Emma going back to the Hellfire Club...okay...I mean this is 2012...times have changed, but it seems that writers continue to do what they are good at which I love. I'm not exactly sure what I'm saying but if the writing team behind AVX, X-Men, Avengers and every comic in the MU that is going to be affected by the events of AVX goes out of their comfort zone and does something insane, I am sure I will follow.

Preferring Marvel to DC most of my life, lately I have found myself blown away by the New 52 by DC. Its all so new. The characters have the same names and similar costumes that I've grown to love, but I feel like the storylines are fresh,exciting and I have no idea what's coming next.

Maybe I'm just ranting...sorry.

[Mirymate]

I see Jean being disgusted with the way Scott is behaving. Not his being with Emma, she knows about that already it would seem, but the choices he's been making, who his friends are these days. She has no love for Magneto, even before Xorneto killed her. So I see her going East with Wolverine and Hank and taking over the school which bears her name. This will send Scott even further down the dark road he's on, cause I don't think he's hit "bottom" yet, and eventually the "Utopia" team will be the real Dark X-Men. I see Raven and the "got better" Victor joining Scott in the wake of this, and folks like Charles and Ororo heading east the darker a place Utopia becomes. Eventually Scott will be the new Magneto of this generation, and Jean would be the new Xavier.

[nate_studio]

I always felt like he was written alternately as flat and without personality and obnoxiously whiney and indecisive. .... Then Whedon took over on Astonishing, and he became one of my favorite characters. He turned decisive, willing to make hard calls (like kicking Prof. to the curb!), and generally a bad ass who could get shit done despite having a comparatively b-grade mutant power. And not a cocky, smarmy bad ass like Fantomex, or a grizzled, seen-to-much bad ass like Wolverine. Just a bad ass who already had a plan in motion while the other guys were still thinking up their quips. He was really the leader of the X-men.

That's why it kills me what they have done to Cyclops since Whedon's run ended. He was finally in a good place where he was just an awesome leader for the team and then they went too serious, too dark, too morally questionable. I haven't been keeping up with too many of the recent comics, but I haven't been a huge fan of what I've read recently. I think the Mutant endangered species aspect is interesting, but I don't like the 'anything to survive' outlook. I think Magneto being a good guy is interesting, but Cyclops becoming Magneto is less exciting. I think Wolverine taking a stand is interesting, but he shouldn't be leading a team. I think Hope is interesting, but am just waiting for Jean to return. I guess I'll wait and see what happens in AvX and see how I feel about it. I'm sure a few months after it ends the status quo will be pretty much the same as ever.

[Nessex]

I see Jean being disgusted with the way Scott is behaving. Not his being with Emma, she knows about that already it would seem, but the choices he's been making, who his friends are these days. She has no love for Magneto, even before Xorneto killed her. So I see her going East with Wolverine and Hank and taking over the school which bears her name. This will send Scott even further down the dark road he's on, cause I don't think he's hit "bottom" yet, and eventually the "Utopia" team will be the real Dark X-Men. I see Raven and the "got better" Victor joining Scott in the wake of this, and folks like Charles and Ororo heading east the darker a place Utopia becomes. Eventually Scott will be the new Magneto of this generation, and Jean would be the new Xavier.

Wow - that is some upsetting, shakespearean style tragedy right there . . .

[hellpop]

Any of you read issue two? Aaron an improvement over Bendis?

[Nessex]

Gotta say - i thought the writing was pretty freaking terrible. The narration boxes read like fan-fiction from a high-school creative writing project.

I did enjoy getting to watch Magik be a bit of a bad-@ss, but over-all i was pretty underwhelmed.

[Turtle]

Yeah, so far both issues have left me wanting. I haven't really enjoyed the writing, and the art isn't doing it for me. And I don't think Cap or Cyclops are being written in character. I get each of their points, but they're both coming across in the wrong way so much so that I'm frustratingly not rooting for anyone right now. Issue #0 may have set the bar too high.

Now that the opening fight is done, it'll be interesting to see what the east coast X-Men do, if anything. Or are Wolverine and Beast the only two of those that matter?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Turtle