A vs X

[Lobsterman]

Just bumping this up so we can move the convo out of the exclusives thread.

[MiniFiend UK]

i did do a search couldnt find the thread, AVX just took a turn I didnt expect.

[Lobsterman]

As I said in the other thread, I think Prowlar made an interesting point about this being a potential universe reboot a la Flashpoint.

[AdyCarter]

As I said in the other thread, I think Prowlar made an interesting point about this being a potential universe reboot a la Flashpoint.

Someone told me ASM #700 or so does that

[Nessex]

There is about to be a Cross-over between 616 Spiderman & Ultimate Spiderman.

I. Am. Terrified.

the introduction of a Jackson-Fury in the 616. The cross-over between realities in ASM. A huge game-changing event between the X-Men & Avengers which already involves the Phoenix - a being known for 'rebirth', and which will invlove Wanda in some way - a mutant who is known for affecting probability & warping reality.

This all smells like the lead up to a massive Marvel-wide DC-Style reboot. God help us if it does.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Nessex

[undeadpool]

i dont think thats what the ASM thing is for, i feel its a way to really ground the fact that Miles is Ultimates Spiderman, and he has been a great one so far. I for one am very excited to see what comes out of that story.

also i dont think Marvel is intending a massive reboot anytime soon, the one big difference between marvel and DC is ultimate, Ultimate is Marvel's get out of jail free card for any sort of crazy story or "modernization" they want to attempt, and it was rebooted before DC did theirs so i doubt we will see something similar in 616

[hellpop]

Sorry, but the Ultimate line is DOA. Killing Spider-Man and replacing him with Donald Glover Miles was the last, desperate attempt to make the line relevant again. And, while USM still sells relatively well, the remaining books hover around cancellation levels. Frankly, ever since Marvel began doing Ultimate-style stories in the 616-Uni from Civil War on, the Ultimate line lost it's uniqueness. Please note, by the way, that I'm not saying ANYTHING about the quality of the Ultimate books right now, because I haven't read them, so I don't know. But no, the Ultimate line isn't the answer, not anymore.

Until AvX launched, Marvel was in really bad shape earlier this year. They were increasingly reliant on stunts, such as double-shipping their best selling titles in a month to help boost their market share. But they were just patching holes. To illustrate how bad things were: Aquaman was outselling every single Marvel title for two straight months. Aquaman! Outselling the X-Men and Spider-Man!

I could definitely see AvX leading to major changes. I don't know if they'll go full reboot, because that will seem a little desperate coming so close to DC's; though, frankly, having the Avengers fight the X-Men seems pretty desperate already. Stunts and gimmicks, fellas. That's all they can do anymore. Just stunts and gimmicks.

[Lobsterman]

Spoilers.

Okay, Bendis is really pulling out all the stops in turning Cyclops into a reviled, irredeemable bastard.

Seriously? Killing Professor X? I just don't see any way Scott will be allowed to exist in the MU after this. Unless they're just outright making him a villain going forward, or at best, a Magneto- or Namor-esque non-hero. After that, though, I have trouble imagining Wolverine not slicing him open from stem to stern.

[hellpop]

Wow.And why the hell is everybody else just standing around?!

[Turtle]

It's over. Thought? Comments? Criticism? I liked that once again dickhead Cyclops was actually right about everything. In the context of itself, I thought Scott's Dark Phoenix look was kinda cool for what it was. Again, though, my main criticism is that just about every character was acting completely out of character for most of the story. The Phoenix Five, being possessed by the Phoenix, can get away with it, but Cyke (early in the story), Cap, and... well everyone, were just not themselves. And I may be in the minority here, but I still see the Avengers as the villains in this story.

When it's all said and done, I'm not sure I understand why Scott is so horrible. By my count, he killed exactly one person (and let's face it, last time Xavier was killed- only five years ago- via being shot in the head, he got better in no time. And can't the combined power of Scarlet Witch and Wanda fix this with a little "Charles Xavier lives"?) How many people did Wanda kill during Avengers Disassembled? How much devastation was she responsible for in House of M? What about Jean Grey as Phoenix? Scott, possessed by the Phoenix going dark, kills one person and is Public Enemy Number 1. That doesn't really add up to me.

Overall, I wasn't very impressed with the story (ranging from predictable to non-sensical) or the writing (bad characterizations), but

I look forward to seeing what will happen to the wanted X-Men. (side note- I don't understand how Emma, who was in custody of the Avengers, is wanted instead of, you know, in jail with Scott or why Magneto, who helped lead an assault against Cyclops, would be wanted.) I assume that someone will be springing Scott from prison, and I hope it's Magneto. I'm not sure who else is going to be on the Wanted list, but I'm looking forward to seeing the Real X-Men on the run. As much as I've grown to despise the character, I'm also looking forward to WatXM getting back to normal. I want to hate it, but it's such a fun book.

[Lobsterman]

***I guess blanket spoiler alert? If you haven't read any of the series, probably the wrong thread to be in in general...***

I think, like Civil War and House of M, it's going to read a lot better when it's collected in a trade and has a little time behind it. When you go back and look at Scott's actions not issue by issue, but over the sweep of the series, and even back through the last few years, they're the most believable because they've been the most consistent and reasoned (whether that was faulty reasoning is up for debate). He sees himself as the defender of the last 200 mutants on earth, and he's going to do whatever he has to to keep them safe. It's different than BoEM Magneto, whose mutants vs humans argument was still fairly abstract. For Scott, every mutant persecuted was literally one step closer to extinction.

I'm still not a huge fan of how Scott was turned into a big asshole, but I'll grant that it was interesting storytelling in the same way that Tony was made the bad guy in Civil War. Bendis had a compelling moral quandry to describe here – how far is necessary and proper when you're trying to preserve your race – and it was more interesting when the reader couldn't just write off the guy taking the extreme view as some off-his-rocker super villain trying to rule the world. It's almost like it needs to be a hero making the point for it to have any weight. So, in the end, Scott got to be "right," but it's sad that they had to basically destroy his character to do it.

[hellpop]

I'm kind of torn on this whole thing. On the one hand, I suppose I respect that the Bendis boys tried to craft a full story, and didn't just have the Avengers fight the X-Men. On the other hand... I sense that the whole thing would have been more enjoyable if the Avengers just fought the X-Men. I dunno. I just miss the days when comics were fun, y'know?