AFMcGill

@DSTZach Okay, I'm trying not to be confrontational but i am confrontational by nature (i have an Emma Frost avatar for a reason) and i apologise for if anything like "lazy" or anything else that sounds insulting is in here but i want to raise these points 

Kaine's Minimate design is based on Mark Bagley art from Amazing Spider-Man #397. This is actually an inaccurate depiction of his costume - namely the colours and the lack of design elements (or the visibility of them in the art). Kaine was created and designed by Steven Butler in Web of Spider-Man #117, he is otherwise consistently depicted as his mask being the same colour as the rest of his "costume" (be it a blue or black, however one interprets it, neither interpretation would be wrong or incorrect). Whereas most of his design elements are actual crucial parts of the character's history and origin. He is scarred (due to cellular degeneration caused by imperfect cloning). The lines, resembling random web lines, all over his costume are representative of that. He has spikes, also caused by his origin as a faulty clone.

Green Goblin's design is based on a recoloured cover to Spectacular Spider-Man #225 for the Green Goblin: A Lighter Shade of Green trade paperback from the early 2010s. These new colours are, again, a bad representation of the character's colour scheme - the trade paperback cover is the only image of the character with that almost blue shade of purple. Likewise, the use of shadows has been misinterpreted as part of the colour scheme. Like Kaine, certain things are again important parts of the character's backstory. Phil Urich's origin is that he stumbled onto a secret hideout formerly used by the Green Goblin (we never learn if it was Norman or Harry, just one of them) and all of his equipment and even his costume are leftover Green Goblin gear. The colours are meant to be whatever colour an Osborn Green Goblin costume would be in 1995. 

In my mind, I'm willing to accept many little things. As I noted, Kaine... should... have spikes all over but that would be a nightmare to actually implement. Getting rid of that - that is fine with me. I understand that completely. I never for a minute even expected him to have spikes if we ever got him. Then his patterning that runs throughout his body is probably a bit too detailed, randomly complicated and annoying to actually put on his arms and legs. Nor is it that I am a stickler for "what I remember", I'm actually a big fan of the Marvel Legends figure of Madelyne Pryor from X-Men 97 and prefer that to her actual comic costume. Yes, I recently said I felt compelled to make Typhoid Mary look more like how she looked in the 80s but I was totally fine that I had to do that, I was happy there was a Typhoid Mary to do it with at all.

I don't know what to say. Initially I was worried because things that are quite core to the characters were not known - and that's forgivable. I'm not expecting people making kid's toys to know every facet of every character from a license. I also know that licensors often don't really provide reference materials and that actually devoting resources to the level of research that people believe they deserve isn't viable either. If you don't know Kaine's costume is covered in those weird web style patterns because his skin is like that and it's all a big part of his character... that's fine. And the Phil Urich thing, you don't have to know that. Neither of these things are essential knowledge, my problem is that I feel pretty confident I have identified the exact sources of these designs. I don't mean to come off as snide or insulting when I claim they are the first image results on Google Image Search for those characters but it is the truth. It opens a myriad of further concerns - things like the fact Google displays multiple results at once, so why has reference only been narrowed to the one when even just a quick glance at a second image would quickly make it clear that the colours aren't like that anywhere else. Furthermore, maybe more practically and demonstratably concerning, if this is evident of overall reference - what's to stop the next wave of Minimates having a character design accidentally based on original fan art by mistake? It happened to Mike Deodato Jr. with a cover featuring Kate Bishop Hawkeye a few years ago. The recent DC animated movies "borrowed" (aka outright stole) a DeviantArt redesign of Black Lightning. Something like that one recoloured Green Goblin trade cover could just as easily have been some guy practicing colouring and they posted it on Twitter and it got retweeted a bunch and then someone uploaded it to a forum or a website or posted it in a Favourite Characters Thread and it got passed around over and over again and now it is the first Google Image Result without the clue of it's origin. 

Now, having said all this and had my 17th moan of the year on here, I think the absolutely funniest response would be to not acknowledge any of this and just clinically say "these are prototype shots for marketing purposes, they are not representative of the final product".

9 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I totally understand your 'why's'  ?  TBQH I am not up to speed with this particular SM era but I can see where you are coming from ,having just studied 'Phil Urich Green Goblin' on the Marvel (database) .  There's a great picture of PUGG & I wouldn't mind betting that that picture heavily influenced the Minimate designer , who knows?  In that picture GG's cloak looks to be black on the outer side & a mixture of purple & red on the inside ! 

Heaven forbid that I am being perceived as being an authority on....er.... anything 

Having thought on it, yep, that recoloured image for the trade of the series is exactly what they've based Phil Urich on. My head space was thinking of the purple because I knew he was purple and green so I didn't really even clock or have the mental capacity to recognise that to someone who has never seen the character before, the amount of black could be construed as his cloak is black and it is part of his colour scheme. That it's not even the original colours of the cover (it was a recolored image for a trade paperback in the early 2010s) and that for some reason they are referring to that and only that is genuinely dismaying.

23 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

Without getting too technical ( I will if you insist) blue tints were often used to portray black in the same way yellow portrayed gold  ......'back in the day ' when comics were solely printed in CMYK.   Minimates are not printed in CMYK , the palette of colours available to a tampo-printer is theoretically limitless as is the imagination & interpretation of a toy-designer .  

 

 

Then why is the product's mask and "chest emblem" not the same black of the rest of his costume? I know very well that Kaine's costume could be seen as black, but the Minimate's mask and the bit on his cape piece are blue against the rest of the body which is black. Whatever colour Kaine's costume is, however you want to interpret the colour, it is very definitely the one base colour. The Minimate is presenting two colours.

The reason and the reason for the entire Minimate looking off is this one image which is the first that comes up on Google and is the only time he is drawn that way - incorrectly without the scar patterning running all through his costume and wherein he appears to have blue and black parts. We're getting a Minimate of a character based on one art team's mistake in an issue rather than the character's design as it appears in every other issue.

And then on the other hand, why is Green Goblin's purple cloak completely black. Not even matching the dark almost blue purple parts of his costume. It's the exact same problem as Kaine, the designs either haven't been researched adequately or they have become lost from what they are meant to look like along the way. I challenge anyone to find me a picture of Phil Urich Green Goblin with a combo of black cloak and almost blue rest of costume. The closest I can find is this which is a digitally recoloured cover for a trade collection and still is far from black and blue. This was the original art and it's colours.

On 4/27/2024 at 2:13 PM, thereasonsy said:

Deathcry is great but an Avenger. Mutant rights! Muuuttant rights!

Deathbird, the Imperial Guard and the Starjammers ain't even muties.

The Gen X kids on the other hand.

Okay, he's slightly less blue which is an improvement but I'd say Goblin still isn't even close to the right colours. His costume, his origin, is that he found one of Osborn's old hideouts with his costumes and equipment. They are meant to be the same colour as the other Green Goblins. That's why every single bit of art of him has him in those vibrant green and pink/purple. There's none with him in blue, there's none with him in black that isn't meant to be inferred as shadow or shading.

And Kaine's body is beyond annoying. My chief complaint is he's meant to be one colour throughout his costume. The navy blue. It's meant to run across his entire costume, the grey "web" lines on his mask are all over his body, they're meant to represent clone degeneration and the scars he has on his unmasked face. Then there's the spikes but I find the random blue and black scheme of the Minimate completely off.

I noticed when you google image search for Kaine (or if go on his Wikipedia page) - the first result has very dark art showing him in a manner where one could infer that design of the Minimate - that his mask and chest are blue and the rest black but it's the only image of him like that.

This is what the character looks like: 

I would understand losing the pattern for simplicity's sake and even losing the spikes for logistical reasons but that the colours aren't even right on him or Phil is hugely bothering. So close to pre-ordering the set but... to me, Kaine and Phil Urich are only slightly recognisable as who they are meant to be. They look familiar but have been badly researched and/or inaccurately adapted. Both these things aren't just nitpicks, they are integral parts of the character's designs or backstories. Kaine is a messed up clone with scarring and spikes all over because he is imperfect, his costume reflects that. He didn't have this funky lining all over because he thought it looked cool, it represents an important part of who he is and his origin. And on origins, Green Goblin's story is he found the old Green Goblin's stash, not that he found some cosplay rags somewhere that are off-colour. And, while I'm at it, man, unmasked Kaine is asking too much but not having one will suck - a face with unique marks on it that could actually hammer home the fact he and Ben are both meant to be Peter Parker clones... but I guess we're not getting an unmasked Ben either so, what's the point. I'm sure Luke will do some stickers at some point.

On another note, a positive is to see Spider-Carnage is coming with alternate legs (and it looks like arms) to further compliment the look. That'd have been a small thing I'd have been willing to overlook but nice effort. Still is easily something I would trade for Kaine's body actually looking anything like Kaine's body.

Are those shoulder pads new on Doc Ock? Are they part of the back-harness with her octopi arms?

People wanting an unmasked Phil, the Emil Gregg head that came with Sin-Eater has the perfect hair for him. Exact style and colour from his series. The costume might be the completely wrong colours but at least he can have accurate hair.

I'm going to be longing for a follow-up with Spidercide. That way my insatiable need for an 80s style Beetle seems more grounded.

I'd be more interested in a Deathcry.

The blue in Kaine's design is meant to run throughout his costume... and he's got spikes and stuff up his arms!

I also don't know where Phil's colour scheme is coming from... blue and dark green??

Spider-Man seems on the darker side too. Even when he was Spider-Carnage, he wasn't really black instead of blue.

Well, I don't think I am the only person who has ever felt the need to change a Minimate to be more in-line with what they prefer or what they wanted?

I will apologise for any projection, I have felt incredibly outside and abandoned as a customer - I actually didn't even know DD was OUT (and I can't find any listing on Luke's?), I've been aimlessly searching eBay every week expecting the boxset to show up for sale somewhere. It's release, down to the figures included, seemed to be fluctuating and unsure - I had no idea it had actually been out for months (I think?). I'm someone who doesn't check things daily, at this point weekly or maybe even monthly. There's like 1 Marvel release per year! I knew it was coming out "some time in 2024" and have been keeping an eye out for it on eBay.

I have now found out the reason for my obliviousness and apparently unavailability - a .. certain eBay seller that once had a menagerie... began blocking people from viewing their store on any eBay besides .com when they changed their name away from specifically Minimates. I think all my frustration, disappointment and anger should now be directed at them. And those big stupid idiots even gave the loose Puppet Master the Ultimate Nullifier accessory instead of the loose Reed Richards that one time!!

Buying from Luke's is inevitable now, I guess. I did definitely get X-Factor wave from him (with several Madri) and I think Dark Phoenix too. Always wanted to get some sticker sheets and loose parts just for fodder but it'd always come time and it's like "yeah, I can't justify the postage cost on small buys" which equated to me getting the entire Dark Phoenix wave when all I really wanted was Gladiator and maybe Dark Phoenix.

Just it was nice going through eBay and cherry-picking what I wanted when that was an option because... well, I use eBay to buy most other hobby things that I buy... it was easier to go on eBay and search for things than going to another specific website.

I'm dying for a classic Thanos. The Infinity Gauntlet boxset one is just not enough. Likewise that Drax... we need a bulked up version of that guy.

18 hours ago, DSTZach said:

I think Inhumans is a tough sell right now. Maybe when the show came out there was a small window, but it was REAL small. 

And I think when we ultimately release the '90s X-Men sets, they will be companion sets like some have suggested. An apple that's worth the reach, as it were. 

This gives me some hope... the last Minimates I got were the Dark Phoenix ones (I only wanted Gladiator but wound up having to get the whole wave because there's virtually no longer any eBay market for loose minimates). None of the boxsets have appealed to me personally. The Daredevil one has some things i want (D-Man and Mary) but again I can't even find one for sale and I'm accepting that there's zero chance I will ever see a loose one for sale. Not being in America is another factor and it's been so long since I got a Minimate it has made me lose sight of how fun the line can be.

The boxsets unfortunately lock one of the main appeals of the line away - interchangeable parts. It's been said before but nobody is going to buy a boxset because they see a set of legs or a head that would look good on a custom they envision. That now there's not much loose ones on eBay (who was that one seller that sold them all loose? I bought about 70% of my Minimate collection from there!), it's barely accessible to me. The extra cost of postage makes the idea of getting a boxset I already only want 2 figures from (and feel the need to improve Mary with Jean DeWolff legs)... the boxsets are a model that I would say are problematic because no matter what there will be customers who don't want all 5 figures. Either there will be a remake of a figure they already have and don't feel the need to upgrade or there will be characters they have no interest in. I would say, actually, the first two boxsets while not appealing to me, were at least selected wisely in that they mostly appealed to the same person. If you want one Young Avenger, you probably want all 6. Daredevil is a different case - I have a Kingpin, I have a Bullseye... not everyone does have those obviously, and Elektra-Daredevil isn't something I'm into (never read those comics) but I have wanted a Yellow Costume Daredevil for ages specifically to make a D-Man. I've wanted Typhoid Mary for ages (even if I have to kitbash some parts to make her look more like she did in the 80s). 

I don't know what I'm saying. As a line, I think Minimates need to be more available for people to buy them for their parts. I'd buy something I'm not interested in if it had a pentagram on a bare chest because it is begging to go on a Son of Satan custom I have laying around. If it's looked behind a weird boxset with 4 other figures, no way am I going to get it for that one chest block. My point here is that one of the biggest unique selling points of the line is gone with boxsets.

Obviously, a lot of personal taste and personal geography is colouring my thoughts but someone mentioned those Alpha Flight boxsets and those were great and the Young Avengers was a decent set if you're into that... New Warriors, Thunderbolts - they'd have been killer. Maybe overall the boxsets have to be slam-dunks, all the figures should appeal to the same person? If someone wants x, then they naturally want y as well. Try not to have someone who wants x but is affected by not wanting y. The Daredevil one felt particularly pick and mix and featured 1 new character to the line and a completely disconnected Daredevil design with a selection of modern designs on everyone else. 

Maybe just make a future boxset that is just an empty tray except for one figure and it is the classic 80s Beetle that matches the female Beetle's colours and then I'll shut up?

ALSO, technically, one could argue we have gotten a non-animated Jackal before.

Just realised Deadly Foes of Spider-Man fits some of these clues!

Hero we've not gotten before - Beetle (he has been a hero since 1997)

Anti-hero we've never gotten - Boomerang (he starred in his own series, Superior Foes, and as of recently was Spider-Man's pal and roommate... technically could argue he's an anti-hero by now)

Rhino - villain we've gotten before

Speed Demon - villain we've only gotten animated

Then it falls apart because our fifth villain we've never gotten before... we have had two Hydro-Men (or alternatively a Shocker). Assuming it's not another case where the clue is "oops, I forgot about that one" there are other choices - Leila Davis would fit; she was in both Deadly and Lethal Foes. The Answer was in Lethal Foes (as the bad guy iirc). Stegron (was also in Lethal Foes). Then there's Overdrive from Superior Foes. 

Could be a composite of the 90s miniseries team (Beetle, Rhino, Speed Demon, Boomerang, Hydro-Man) with the modern Boomerang design and Overdrive so that it doubles as completing the Superior Foes line-up for some (we have gotten a very old Shocker and the female Beetle).

Maybe recent comments about not doing a Sinister Six without Spider-Man were all part of a grand misdirect.

I'll jump at any chance to hope for a Beetle... 

Ben Reilly Spider-Man

Kaine

Jackal

Spidercide

Scrier

They would appear to be the 5 most story specific. 

Depending how loose it gets, Phil Urich Green Goblin (could class as an anti-hero or with foresight villain), Lady Doctor Octopus (villain), Stunner (villain), Judas Traveller (villain), Scorpina (villain), The Grim Hunter (villain)... were all introduced in the middle of the Clone Saga. I'm sure if you dive deeper, there's all sorts of major Spidey baddies we've not had Minimates of that cropped up at some point in the Clone Saga but weren't really relevant to the overall arc. I mean, Beetle was in an issue of Spider-Man Unlimited during the Clone Saga so I'm going to be disappointed for the 40th time that I've still not gotten a Beetle.

Could always be a trojan horse and they're going to force in some recent rubbish like Chasm or Hallow's Eve...

There is that old Lockjaw (came with the bad adaptation of early Psylocke). And there's an old Black Bolt (and an animated Black Bolt AND an animated Medusa).

Luna minifigure?

(Actually maybe a Magneto Family themed boxset with Magneto, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Polaris, Crystal and a Luna minifgure could be a thing...)

Which Inhuman is getting the shaft there? Lockjaw or Triton?

Although...

Thor vs. Wrecking Crew

Hulk vs. U-Foes

Captain America vs. (some of) Serpent Society

On 4/12/2024 at 8:10 PM, DSTZach said:

Yes, Team X Wolverine, Maverick and Creed would be great. We need to figure out who else would be in that set. 

Omega Red and Silver Fox. Maybe John Wraith or another pass at Mystique. Cyber, oh gosh, I'd like a Cyber. Absolute potential here for a boxset.

Albert with an Elsie-Dee minifigure?

The solution to army builders in boxsets is a boxset of exclusively army builders.

Like a S.H.I.E.L.D. themed boxset: with a SHIELD Agent (M and F chest piece), a HYDRA Soldier, an AIM Soldier, a Watchdogs Soldier and an ULTIMATUM Soldier. Or a space boxset with a Kree soldier (pink and blue heads), a Skrull soldier, a shi'ar soldier (M and F chest piece?), a badoon soldier and so on. There there's a bunch of uniforms that allow for this. 2000s era Guardians, a variety of X-Men, Fantastic Four. Sure, some require specific pieces (Star-Lord for example has a unique chest block) whereas others are actually simple add-ons or removals (a hula skirt on top of a female GOTG body for Mantis). Some off the road ones like Bug, Deathcry and Captain Universe could be squeezed into a GOTG boxset like that through alternate pieces for the base GOTG uniform body.

Eh, i hate this thread i started. They changed the format and so all the great suggestions of Thunderbolts, New Warriors, Inhumans... all these 6 figure sets... basically something that felt extremely likely due to fitting the 6-figure format, something like the New Warriors, is now like we're being explicitly told we are probably never going to get them because we're only getting 5 figures. 

I like the X-Men 97 design for her. I would rather have that as a Minimate. I'm going to be disappointed when it's not that and it's not the comic version and is now like that awful Marvel Legends redesign that they never released.

What sucks is the notion that DAZZLER simply having boobies is now too risque for Minimates which spells out the fact that Emma Frost is now basically un-Minimatable. Even her tame costumes are more than disco Dazzler. 

I said in the other thread - Polaris as Malice matches some clues. I'd much prefer her to a Wolverine with a spikier mask.

Polaris as Malice could fit some of the clue.

Definitely not dying, right??

Can't wait for my 3-figure Inferno boxset due out in 2027 with a newly sculpted mask piece for Wolverine instead of any women.

You're all hopeful but the 5 figure limit basically means it's going to be about 3 or 4 figures you don't want and then maybe 1 and a half that you do.

And when it comes to 80s X-Men, what don't we have? Madelyne Pryor, Legion, Gateway, etc. 

Do you realise how unlikely it is that the sheer amount of recognisable and profitable X-Men characters have to first be decided against to get us room for a Caliban??

Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, Magneto... there's just no chance in my eyes. We will get thrown a bone with a Sebastian Shaw or a High Evolutionary but the rest is going to be another Wolverine variant we've already had and maybe if we're lucky a headmaster Magneto or Savage Land Rogue or whatever.

I'm never going to get Boomerang and Beetle, am I?

6 hours ago, thereasonsy said:

Her costume was different as it didn’t have a Tunic or the shoulder pad things. There’s also the case of her hair getting burnt off. 
 

I agree with you on the deep cuts. It will be really hard to get to my New Mutants Holy Grail: 

 

I did a kit bash Rusty in his Red shirt and khakis and one of Skids but sadly those two characters were victims of the Liefeld of it all. Sadly, these boxsets, even if sold at LCS need anchor figures and Cable *is* the X-Force anchor. So if I *have* to have one then I’d prefer the Mastermind/Professor X trick and have it be Cable as Stryfe. Exodus has come back into relevancy so I think that would also help. Sunspot also is a current star of the X-Avengers Realm. I do love the idea of just adding in the pieces to make both a Liefeld and a Cap Warpath. I was hoping we’d get a larger Minimate for him similar to Strong Guy but at this stage of the game, beggars and what not.

I actually deleted a sentence in my reply about how I sorely want "Rusty Collins specifically in the Liefeld costume that he never wore in a comic". 

I feel we only need the one Warpath (and wishing for more than one is ridiculous with the current snail's pace of releases). The design didn't change ENOUGH between Liefeld and Capullo to justify two. Capullo just gave him cleavage. The Marvel Legends figure is exactly what the Minimate should be based off (likewise, they did a Capullo Sunspot in that same wave of figures). I don't even remember Feral having a Capullo costume. Wasn't it just a pink bathing suit? I'd consider that a waste of a figure and over Warpath, (either version of) Sunspot or a Stryfe is terrible. Reignfire would be cool but again it feels wishful to think this line is going to ever have a character like Reignfire offered. I could spend ages asking what about Adam X the X-Treme? Gideon? I've long wanted a Rusty Collins and X-Terminators Boom-Boom. I don't think any of these are likely. I hold out hope for a Warpath and Sunspot to at least complete a line-up.