Ultimate Marvel Universe

[Dan]

This thread is set up for everyone to discuss Ultimate Marvel Universe, and maybe some comparisons with the regular 'verse.

Can I just ask that, as I am in the UK I'm a little behind on some issues, and so if you are going to talk about the latest issues, could you put it in spoiler box things. Would be muchly appreciated.

I collect Ultimate X-Men, Ultimate Spider-man and Ultimates. I think these are much better than regular Marvel U stuff as you don't have years of back stories and continuity to wade through, and they are modern. Mark Millar (writer of Ultimate X-Men and Ultimates) and Bryan Hitch (Artist of Ultimates) bring a new look to the Marvel U, and give it a modern freshness.

Any thoughts?

[Amazing.JL]

I enjoy the ultimate universe because it's kinda new and there aren't many stupid crossovers like Civil War. Waiting for Ultimates is a drag, hope Leob does something interesting with the book.

I purposely think that Joe Q purposely is sabotaging the regular universe for the Ultimate Universe. After Bendis leaves Ultimate Spider-man, the Ultimate Universe will die.

[Dan]

There are some cross-overs that have been good like X-4 and the Ult Spidey with the Human Torch in. Also the recent stories about Kitty and Spidey have been interesting.

Why are they so slow in bringing out Ultimates anyway? They take even longer to get over the pond to the UK.

Why and when is Bendis leaving Ult Spidey?

[Amazing.JL]

There has been no announcement as to when Bendis will leave. Bagley is leaving however. I really haven't been too impressed with the Ultimate crossovers too much either, just not as horrible as the regular universe crossovers. They aren't actual crossovers as they don't involve the other books like in the regular universe. I would call them events, if even. Ultimate Six was completely pointless. The rest gave us Ultimate SS, Vision, and Captain Marvel. What the hell happen to Ultimate Power?

[HotstufflouieB]

I read these only when the hardcovers come out and I can't even remember the last thing that happend in either X-Men or Spider-Man. Looks like I'll have to re-read them! Shucks!

[TM2 Dinobot]

Ult Spidey is one of my favorite books. I loved the Clone Saga.

[Rad]

Yeah Ulti Spidey is superb. Can't imagine what it'd be like without Bendis though. Maybe Whedon'd be able to take over seeing as they're both great at dialogue, my only reservation being Whedon suddenly getting film work again and doing a Kevin Smith.

Agree with JL on his point about the crossovers. Ultimate Six really should have been called Ultimately Pointless. The only really good one has been the Gal-Ack-Tus trilogy.

[you_will_forget]

I'm slowly catching up on the Ultimate Universe in trades (up to book 11 on Spider-man, 9 on X-men and 4 on FF, as well as all 3 Ultimates books so far).

Got into it from a recommendation from a friend and following a winning combination of Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch of The Authority fame. I'm enjoying it, and loved Warren Ellis' Fantastic Four. Bendis writes a good SM, but it feels a lot like it's "Introduce villain! Beat villain! Introduce next villain! Repeat!" so far. X-men is fun. Kinda wish I hadn't bothered with Ultimate Iron Man though. Bit of a snore-fest.

Jo

[Dan]

The Clone Saga in Ult Spidey hasn't reached here yet but I'm looking forward to reading it.

I've only read Ultimate Nightmare from the Gal-Ack-Tus Trilogy, as I haven't been able to get hold of Ultimate Secret or Extinction.

I think Whedon would be a good writer for Ult Spidey, but I don't think he would be better than Bendis.

I haven't gotten round to buying Ultimate Six, but perhaps I won't bother now.

I think the whole "Introduce villain! Beat villain! Introduce next villain! Repeat!" is quite good, as it's more realistic. When Spidey takes down a villian, they go to jail, and shouldn't really get out.

[TM2 Dinobot]

Okay, so now I'm curious. Is ult Six part of the Ult Spidey universe? Cause it showed up in my pull box, but I don't remember ordering it and I know nothing about it. What is it?

[Amazing.JL]

^As said above, Ultimate Pointless. It was essentially Ult. Spidey and the Ultmates.

To answer the question above about Ultimates, They only do Ultimates in 10-12 issue runs. They are in the second run and is very slow toward the end. I'm not even sure if it's finished. Book delays kill a buzz and I loose interest if it takes a few months for the next issue.

[Dan]

Just read the first six issues of Ultimates 2.

It's well harsh what they do to Bruce and to Thor. Can anyone confirm whether Thor is actually a God, and whether Loki actually is real or just part of Thor's imagination.

Any idea on when Ultimates 2, part 2 (issues 7 onwards) comes out as a graphic novel?

Thanks

[Rad]

Ultimates 2 issue 13 finally came out this week. I'd imagine the trade'll be out within the next fortnight.

[Dan]

Ultimates 2 issue 13 finally came out this week. I'd imagine the trade'll be out within the next fortnight.

Thanks. Is it good/worth buying? I'll start hunting for that in a couple of weeks then.

[Rad]

Ultimates 2 issue 13 finally came out this week. I'd imagine the trade'll be out within the next fortnight.

Thanks mate. Is it good/ worth buying? I'll start hunting for that in a couple of weeks then.

Worth buying? Absolutely!

You'll also have the advantage of reading it the way it should be read. There was a huge delay between issues 12 and 13 which really spoiled the flow of the book.

[Zombieboyfiend]

No offense all, but Ultimates is what drove me away from Marvel. I did kind of enjoy Ultimate Avengers though. I guess i'm just old school. :mage:

[Dan]

Ultimate Avengers was quite good, but I thought that it was more aimed at kids than actual comic fans. Ultimates is a modern, up-to-date and above all realistic version of Avengers. The Ultimate Avengers movie didn't even use Iron Man's Ultimate suit, which is by far the coolest armour I've seen.

And they missed out Hawkeye! Blasphemy!!!

[you_will_forget]

As far as UK readers goes, its worth checking out www.bookdepository.co.uk for trades.

They aren't wonderfully quick, and their search feature leaves a bit to be desired, but if you can fight your way through it they're pretty cheap. You need to wait about a week after the book has been released, but they do free postage. My only niggle is that they send every. book. seperately. I order five books, and I get five jiffy bags arriving over the course of a couple of days.

Back on subject, Marvel has Ultimates 2: Grand Theft America out on 27th June. I'm looking forward to it.

Not sure how I feel about the title under a different creative team though (Ultimates 3 and 4 already being planned, but without Millar and Hitch). Have to see how that plays out.

As far as Ultimate Six goes...hmm. Having recently finished reading it: The trade collects an issue of USM that isn't collected elsewhere, but it is pretty non-essential. The story is bland, but has a number of funny moments - Thor replying "No" whenever he's asked to do something - but doesn't have any impact on either of the ongoing storylines.

It's ok, but you won't miss anything if you don't read it.

Jo

[Dan]

Not sure how I feel about the title under a different creative team though (Ultimates 3 and 4 already being planned, but without Millar and Hitch). Have to see how that plays out.

How did you find that out? I don't like the idea. Millar and Hitch are a brilliant team with great artwork, dialogue and storylines.

I doubt the new team will be a good as Millar and Hitch.

[Templar]

Not sure how I feel about the title under a different creative team though (Ultimates 3 and 4 already being planned, but without Millar and Hitch). Have to see how that plays out.

How did you find that out? I don't like the idea. Millar and Hitch are a brilliant team with great artwork, dialogue and storylines.

I doubt the new team will be a good as Millar and Hitch.

It's pretty much a matter of just following various comic-news websites and occasionally looking at the publisher's sites. Newsarama, the Pulse, comicbookresources, Silverbulletcomicbooks, etc... they've all had news of the creative team changover for some time. Likewise Marvel.com posted a press release to that effect a while back too.

the new team is Ed McGuinness and Jeph Loeb (who i should note is also one of the exec. producers of the TV show Heroes)... and honestly, i've got a LOT of high-hopes pinned on it... not the least of which is the hope that the book comes out slightly more often than A YEAR BETWEEN ISSUES!

I actually really dislike Mark Millar. Between Civil War, and even his Marvel Knights: Spider-man run... his characterization is *dreadful* IMO. I thought the first 12 Ultimates were okay... in a dramatically "THIS IS NOT THE AVENGERS" kinda way... but Ultimates 2 was a trainwreck for me.

I've come to feel that Ultimate Captain America, is what's wrong with comic books, as a medium, today. He represents everything a hero should never, ever, EVER be... which is ironic, because 616 Cap is the iconic "what a hero should mean" character. I really despise the "soldier" mentality of Ult. cap... he's too much of a thug in uniform. drives me crazy.

But... that's all just personal opinion. I did enjoy the first Ultimates series... so that's something. The witting just wasn't as good on Ult. 2... this whole "sorta masters of evil only not" arc was very disappointing to me. way worse than Ultimate Six.

What's kinda strange is that i really like Ult. X-men... for the same reasons i don't like the Ultimates. it's *not* the X-men (who i detest in the marvel u.)... and different enough that i can really get into it (doesn't hurt that Robert Kirkman is writing it these days either. *heart*)

hands down Ult. Spidey is the best though... with Ultimate FF as a close second.

I just... i can't understand why Greg Land keeps getting work though... that man is such a damn hack it's painful to read any comic he has his name on... WHY Marvel?... you know he's a plagiarist, you KNOW he just copy/pastes his own work into new panels and doesn't actually change a damn thing... WHY are you still letting him ruin comics?! WHY?!

[Dan]

I thought the first 12 Ultimates were okay... in a dramatically "THIS IS NOT THE AVENGERS" kinda way... but Ultimates 2 was a trainwreck for me.

I've come to feel that Ultimate Captain America, is what's wrong with comic books, as a medium, today. He represents everything a hero should never, ever, EVER be... which is ironic, because 616 Cap is the iconic "what a hero should mean" character. I really despise the "soldier" mentality of Ult. cap... he's too much of a thug in uniform. drives me crazy.

I think the soldeir mentallity of Cap is more realistic than the somewhat naive 616 Cap. This is a man who was trained to be the ultimate soldier. He was taken into suspended animation at the height of WWII and his mind was still set in wartime. He obviously has trouble adjusting to how times have changed, and this makes him more arrogant and aggressive. Ult. Cap isn't presented as a hero. He is the leader of a super-soldier squad, much like an army leader. He may do heroic things, but at the end of the day, he was designed and made to be a violent soldier. I understand what you are saying about the irony, but I like it. After all, you wouldn't want the Ultimate Universe to be the same as the regular one would you?

[you_will_forget]

In regards to Mark Millar, I put him in the same group as Grant Morrison. They both have a style that works fantastically well for some things, but is completely wrong for others. To my mind, Millar writes "massive, no holds barred" well, but struggles with more down to earth stuff. In a similar sense, Morrison writes "weird" better than enyone in the business, but fails to write a convincing mainline comic (for me, JLA and Batman were not good books by Morrison).

On the subject of Jeph Loeb and the Ultimates (which, for reference, I found on Newsarama in a New Joe Fridays column) I give it a hearty "hmmm". Loeb has written some fantastic books, but has also written some real stinkers (just have a look at Supergirl: Power). It'll be interesting to see if he can handle the Ultimates.

Just out of interest, did Ultimate Rhino appear anywhere else, or just that short battle in Spider-man?

Jo

[Dan]

I've only seen him in the Ult. Spider-man Annual 1, where Spidey asks out Shadowcat.

He was also featured on the Ultimate Spider-man game, where R.H.I.N.O is revealed to be a really short guy in the suit.

I haven't collected Ult.Spidey long so I don't know for sure if he has been featured in any other issues.

[Templar]

I thought the first 12 Ultimates were okay... in a dramatically "THIS IS NOT THE AVENGERS" kinda way... but Ultimates 2 was a trainwreck for me.

I've come to feel that Ultimate Captain America, is what's wrong with comic books, as a medium, today. He represents everything a hero should never, ever, EVER be... which is ironic, because 616 Cap is the iconic "what a hero should mean" character. I really despise the "soldier" mentality of Ult. cap... he's too much of a thug in uniform. drives me crazy.

I think the soldier mentality of Cap is more realistic than the somewhat naive 616 Cap. This is a man who was trained to be the ultimate soldier. He was taken into suspended animation at the height of WWII and his mind was still set in wartime. He obviously has trouble adjusting to how times have changed, and this makes him more arrogant and aggressive. Ult. Cap isn't presented as a hero. He is the leader of a super-soldier squad, much like an army leader. He may do heroic things, but at the end of the day, he was designed and made to be a violent soldier. I understand what you are saying about the irony, but I like it. After all, you wouldn't want the Ultimate Universe to be the same as the regular one would you?

And see... that's my issue right there, 616 Cap *wasn't* a soldier. He was a skinny kid, filled with patriotism and idealism that was 4-F'ed out and rejected... and secretly given the serum. There was a story a while back in Cap that showed the dichotomy of the government trying to create a weapon, and instead getting a "hero"...

and then realizing that Hero was actually a liability. It implied heavily that the US Government *knew* Cap was frozen in ice all that time... and consciously choose to leave him there.

Which... when you look at all the times Cap has told the government to "stuff it", makes a great deal of sense to me. Cap doesn't represent the american soldier, he's the embodiment of the idealism of america...

but yeah, you're right... i certainly would NOT want the Ultimate U. to be the same as the Marvel U. Otherwise... what would be the point of it?

Loeb has written some fantastic books, but has also written some real stinkers

like... say... Heroes Reborn, or the current trainwreck; "ONSLAUGHT Reborn". haha

yeah i really like Loeb, but he HAS done some things that just... baffle me.

Just out of interest, did Ultimate Rhino appear anywhere else, or just that short battle in Spider-man?

Pretty sure it was just Ultimate Spidey and the Ultimate Spider-man Video game. (well, and Heroclix too i guess)

[Dan]

616 Steve Rogers wanted to be a soldier, but was too small and weak to be allowed in. When he got the super-soldier serum, he became a soldier.

I have just started reading Ult. Fantastic Four. I agree with many people who have posted on here, that it is really good. My fave is still Ult. X-Men but Ult. FF is great. I have enjoyed all of the Ultimate titles that they have released so far, I only wish I could get my hands on the first 9 volumes of Ult. Spidey.