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ReWatching The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes


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#101 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:33 AM

And then you have what happened in the Ultimates.


Incest?




:P

Really though,I think this episode is one of my favorites. Again, harkening back to Beast Wars, it reminds me of "The Probe", the first indication that there was something else out there was was completely out of their control.

And speaking of the Hulk, Hulk Vs., which I think I've raved about enough in this thread, is on sale at Best Buy for $5. Go get it.
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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#102 nate_studio

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:55 PM

Oh yes. I forgot about the incest. Just another thing to add to the 'ultimate' version of a character. :rolleyes:

And speaking of Captain Marvel... if his skin color for the show is this dark blue-green instead of "pink" does that mean he's not wearing any pants?
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And is he the same guy as this Captain Marvel when he has 'pink' skin?
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because I know he's not this Captain Marvel...
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#103 undeadpool

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

yes they are the same person, and the blue, in the show is like a living uniform in a way, though i believe his skin is still blue, but as we've seen he can change it to match ours.

secondly here is a design of a more 616 accurate Mar-vell for EMH
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Edited by undeadpool, 01 March 2012 - 10:37 PM.


#104 Mirymate

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:58 PM

I think just to keep it simple, all the Kree are going to be naturally blue skinned, the Skrulls will be naturally green. It'll help the upcoming crowd scenes less confusion. I do hope they explain exactly what the fightings over and why they're bringing it to Earth. In the 616, it's simple- there are a series of stable wormholes in orbit around our sun, between Vuns and Mercury IIRC. Well these wormholes of stargates or whatever the race in question referes to them as link our soloar system to Skrull emirpe, the Kree Empire, Shi'ar space, among other place. Given it's vecinity and reasonable habitability Earth is viewed as strategically important to most higher galactic soiceities.So that's why these advanced race given a flip about our backwards mudball.
Now in a perfect universe, Earth could set up some spacports like DS9 and make a profit charging for traders and travellers to use the Worm holes. But there's a problem with that plan. If any of the gates are openned for too great a length of time, or opened too many times in succession, It destabalizes our sun's corona to destablize and cause ever increasingly powerful solar erruptions. Which for us on Earth, that's bad.

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#105 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:33 PM

Well in EMH he said Earth had resources and was strategically valuable. To which I would be "Screw you guys. Take Venus or Mars. Just as prime real estate."
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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#106 Mirymate

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:48 AM

Ah, but both races can survive in Earth's atmosphere easily enough. It's apparently easier in their minds to conquer a planet than terraform one. And then there's the whole using the stargates too much causes massive solar flares that would wipe out life on Earth thing. So we really couldn't let them anywhere in the system.

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#107 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 02:31 PM

Widow's Sting

After the romp-roaring good time last episode, this one went back to feeling... incomplete. The great thing about this show is that not everything has to work for everybody. But I wish this episode had featured a bit more exposition.

Clint had some great lines, the best one being "That was, like, 3 months ago." But Mockingbird was right, Natasha had Clint so wound up inside he can't see straight. He was actually going to take the killing shot. And I love how Natasha realized that. Russian chick>ScarJo any day. But I wish Clint had given a bit more information about why she had gotten to him so badly. Yeah yeah, love and all that. But I mean beyond it.

Mockingbird was cute. She seems really young. Her look and mannerisms indicate she's barely old enough to drink. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but when they're in the cells, and Mockingbird is slouched over, she has a ab roll. This is 1) anatomically correct, which I give the animators full credit for and 2) also indicates that she's a bit young, without the years and years of muscle tone. Also if she drove Clint around, that's usually reserved for buck privates, so also young. Not sure, just speculating here.

Madame Viper is awesome. Pulling the grenade pin with her young was both sexy and insane. An automatic indication that you don't want to mess with her.

Over all, wasn't that impressed. But after both Gamma Worlds, Masters of Evil and 354, that's understandable.
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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#108 nate_studio

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:46 PM

S1:E16 - Widow's Sting
Hawkeye's still out to take down the Black Widow, and he's going to shake down every HYDRA agent on the planet to do it.

So much happens in this episode, but the main plot is that Hawkeye is still trying to capture Black Widow. He tries to get SHEILD and the Avengers to help him, but when they tell him it's a bad idea, he decides to do it alone. Cap and Panther want to help and SHEILD sends Mockingbird along to basically send them on a wild goose chase. Our heroes realize this early on and persuade her to actually help them instead of just pretending to.

So in what should be a pretty easy plan -- find Strucker and that treacherous Widow at a HYDRA base -- turns out to be much more complicated. First off, Widow might not actually be a traitor. Other shockers include AIM realizing the weapon they've been developing for HYDRA actually works and finally that HYDRA has been infiltrated by Skrulls. CRAZY!

We get a lot of awesome Hawkeye moments in this episode. The guy who seems like a one-gimmick hero is actually really cool and can still hold up in a fight without his bow and arrows (though he loses both hand-to-hand fights). They put a lot of work in to giving him a great character and he's really one of my favorites on the team. As always, we're treated to some really cool fight scenes. The one at the end really turns up a notch when Cap and Panther come crashing through the ceiling. I'm always impressed with how much this show is able to cram in to every episode without losing it's pacing - character development, multiple fight scenes, and several intersecting plots - it's crazy that each episode is only 20 minutes long.

Some other side notes...

Hawkeye's mask really doesn't make sense. I get what they're going for, but they keep changing how it actually exists on his head, most notably by his ears. I wish they would figure this out and stay consistant.

We're treated to another shot of Black Widow walking away from camera in detail.

I'm really left unsure about Mockingbird- what are her abilities? How does that stick of hers function? Why the codename "Mockingbird"?

Did Cap's voice get deeper? I feel like from this episode on his voice is a little more exaggerated to sound overly heroic. The downside (for me, anyway) is he no longer sounds like a 18-20 year old like he should be. I mean he would be younger, right? A guy who just joined the army a few years ago shouldn't be too old. That said, I guess in traditional comic books he never seems younger on the scale. I don't know.

Favorite moment:
MODOC not being able to reach that arrow on his forehead.
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#109 undeadpool

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:54 PM

ok so now that the skrull thing is out in the open, can i explain fury's constant absences?
and mocking bird has no powers, think of her like black widow, a high level vigilante SHIELD agent


#110 Mirymate

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 09:28 PM

As much as 459 featured big time super powered action with giants and gods and aliens, this episode featured the other end of Avengers' scale- the non-powered butt-kickers. And what better foe to show them off than the faceless goons of Hydra.

And as Hawkeye is my favorite hero period, this was probably one of my favorite episodes. Showed off how clever, versatile, brave, and yes stupid Clint Barton can be.

Ah, Madame Hydra. Can't remember this overtly sexual a character on a kids' show for a long while. Shame she was never really there. Not sure how I feel about combining the Kree-Skrull war with the Secret Invasion. I mean, sure it simplifies things, but I can't help it, I think of Skrulls as FF villains. SI did not change that. Fortunately the FF will be featured more next season, which should help.

I will be honest, I did not catch that the pilot was Bobbie the first time she appeared in the Hulk episode the first time through. I'm embarrassed. Glad to see her as Mockingbird this episode, and hopefully we'll see her added to the roster soon too. Didn't catch the tummy pooch thing either, but I think Dinobutt's staring at these girls more than I am. As for Nick and Bobbie bein unavailable after this... well that fits with her 616 origins as well... I'll post the usual ramble on the subject soon.

And this episode confirmed my suspisions about Tasha. More on that when they actually reveal it.

All in all, another great episode.


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#111 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:55 PM

Not trying to make more out of this than what it is. Like I said, it simply surprised me that the artist paid enough attention to detail to be anatomically correct. But the animation on this show constantly blows me away.

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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#112 Mirymate

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:54 AM

Just yankin' your chain, Choppahface. And you're right the animation is exceptional. But even in the animation style is not what to my tastes, if the story is tight, well paced, and true to the characters then I'll love the show anyway. Case in point: Spectacular Spider-Man. I never did like the art style on that show, I just got used to it. But the story telling was first rate, so I watched religiously anyway. (and that show deserved another season or two, darn it!!)

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#113 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:14 AM

Well, you know Marvel. Better to have nothing on the air for 3 years than to make money on a great show that doesn't tie into the movie.

Oh. Wait.
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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#114 nate_studio

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

I would have loved to see a third season of Spectacular Spider-man.

Hey, Miry, I've never read any classic comics with Hawkeye in it (I know, shame on me). Is his EMH personality similar to his 616 personality? Or is that more of a modern thing? Didn't Bendis start using him as his 'voice' in Avengers (or whichever Avengers title he was used in)?
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#115 undeadpool

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:23 PM

ok so im guessing everyone just already knows the whole fury thing? xD

anyway my thoughts on this episode, LOVE IT, hawkeye taking down MODOK is my favorite scene, even better when him, cap and panther take down reaper without breaking a sweat.
love the intro for mocking bird, whats great is they foreshadowed this by having Morse as Clint and Natasha's pilot in the hulk episode


#116 Mirymate

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

Oh EMH is classic Hawkeye. The smart mouth, cocky attitude with the ability to back it up, the tendency to leap without looking, the knack for getting in over his head yet somehow surviving, that's all Clint. EMH Clint is not as caustic as his 616 counter-part; Hawk doesn't get in Tony's face and question his leadership every episode which 616 Hawkeye did to Cap in every single one of his early issues with the team. For this I'm grateful, because it got real old back in the day and would rob EMH's Hawkeye of a lot of his fun.
The main thing Bendis has changed is unfortunately one of 616 Clint's core traits- his moral code. Clint never killed humans, and prided himself on that. He and Bobbi's divorce centered around this facet of Clint's stern stance on this issue. So imagine how hard my hand smacked my own forehead when Clint decides he needs to kill Norman Osborn. (I'm surprised Nessex didn't hear it from his place) But for the most part, the generally irreverent tone Bendis uses for Clint is spot on.
Truthfully, get me a time machine to use for casting the Avengers movie, and I'd probably cast a young Kurt Russell for the right mix of boyish mischievousness, well delivered snark, and general ass-kickery.

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#117 nate_studio

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:09 PM

Haha. All great to know and better appreciate Hawkeye. As a kid, I liked his purple and blue costume and would play as him in that ridiculously hard SNES Avengers game, but it's good to know more about the character. I think he was also in that 90s Iron Man cartoon, but I really don't remember that well. One of the few things I have read with Clint in it was him going after Osborn. But I think he was Ronin at the time, so I still haven't read any Hawkeye. And while Kurt "Stunt Man Mike" Russell may be too old, let's hope Jeremy Renner can capture Hawkeye's essence. He's definitely the unexpected favorite for me in EMH.

PS, did everyone see the official new costumes for season 2? I wonder if anyone else will get a makeover.
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#118 Mirymate

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:11 PM

Clint's getting a movie/Ultimate style makeover too I've heard. And Hulk's trading torn purple slacks for purple bike shorts. And the voice actor for Hank let is "slip" he will be Yellowjacket at some point this season. Doubt they'll change anything about Black Panther. As much as I like EMH Wasp, it just seemed weird to see Jan in the same outfit for a whole 26 episodes. Traditionally 616 Wasp changed costumes at least every story arc/adventure, and sometimes changed costumes before an issue was done. If that sounds nuts, it was, but it was also a running gag that artists enjoyed playing with. Sometimes I think Perez was just trying to see how ugly a design he could come up with. Point being, I hope Jan gets at least one new outfit. (no, the space armor, and radiation suit don't count)

Let me give you Clint's 616 background... Clint Francis Barton and his older brother Barney were orphans from Iowa who lost their parent in a car crash when both were very young. They lived in an orphanage until both were tweens, then they literally ran away and joined the circus. A natural showman, Clint's natural athleticism catches the eye of one of the carnivals star attractions- Jacques Duquesne aka the Swordsman. Jacques takes Clint under his wing and helps Clint develop his natural talents. Duquesne was in personal and professional competition with Buck Chisholm, and archer who preformed under the name Trickshot. What young Barton doesn't know, (and it's unclear how many of the other carnival workers did) was that both men sidelined as professional criminals. Duquesne was the young up and comer, Chisholm the aging veteran. And Buck's not taking it well, developing a drinking and gambling problem. Never missing a chance to puck a pigeon, Jacques beats Buck badly in a card game, but magnanimously agrees to let Buck work of the money he owes by training his protégé, Clint, in archery. After a few years, Clint's skills continue to grow. But things take a turn when Clint catches Jacques stealing from the carnival paymaster. Horrified, Clint runs to report what he's seen, but a betrayed Swordsman catches, beats, and would have killed his pupil had Chisholm and Barney not come to Clint's rescue. While recovering in the hospital, Barney begs Clint to leave the carnival and come with him, Clint decides to stay. Trickshot goes on to become Clint's sole mentor, and teaches him all about trick arrows and how to use them. Yeah that's right, a good portion of Clint's arsenal started out as tricks to add spice to a carnival act. More years pass, and Buck decides Clint is ready to take on a few mercenary jobs. The plan was to hit the well guarded mansion of a wealthy crime boss. An unsure Barton is forced to shoot one of the guards with a normal arrow, and when Clint went to check to make sure he didn't kill the guard, Clint discovers the guard is his brother Barney. Having injured Barney pretty badly, Clint refuses to leave his wounded brothers side. This infuriates Chischolm, who shoot Clint in the shoulder and swears if he every sees Clint again he will kill him. Barney doesn't name Clint as his assailant, but refuses to speak with him. They will not speak again for many years.
Clint recovers from his second mentors attack, and goes out on his own, taking the stage name "Hawkeye: the Worlds Greatest Marksman" Depending on his audience he alternated between a simple buckskin outfit and an early version of his superhero costume. (yep, the wacky mask, the bright colors, the junk hiding tunic, it all makes more sense when you know it started out as a stage costume) But the challenges of a stage act were running thin, and so were audiences when the modern age of heroes began in earnest. During a Long Island stop, Clint watched Iron Man catch a couple of hoodlums and with his trade mark confidence Clint decided he could do that too. Adapting his gear into heavier duty stuff meant for more than dazzling crowds. Hawkeye tries to stop a bank robbery. Inexperience leads thugs to go sideway, and the cops mistake Hawkeye for the robber. and thus begins Clint's outlaw phase. Soon Clint falls under the spell of the Soviet spy called the Black Widow. Tasha seduced the angry bowman, and got him to take on her foe, Iron Man. Even with BW bankrolling a vastly upgraded arsenal, Iron Man prevailed after a tough fight. Despite not liking being a criminal, Clint had fallen hard for Natasha and would do whatever she asked. But the attraction went both ways, and her love for the rebellious Clint turned the Black Widow against her Party masters. The KGB always take rejection well, and they nearly succeed in having Tasha brutally killed. Natasha was taken into SHIELD custody for protection, and Clint's crimes were pardoned if he can keep his nose clean.
Then came a faithful day when Clint, trying to keep his skills sharp, saves Edwin Jarvis and his mother form muggers, Seeing a spark of nobility in the directionless archer, the Avengers' faithful butler suggests that the team he serves could use Hawkeye's talents. So together they stage his introduction to the team and Hawkeye becomes the teams second recruit. He serves steadily from v1 #16 to just after v1 #100. After that, Clint's temper and restlessness lead him to quit and comeback several times over the next few years. And when the company he was employed at in his day job proved to be a totally evil, corrupt organization, he was joined on the case by SHIELD special agent Mockingbird. They share a whirlwind romance by anyones' standard that has them going from "hello" to "let's get married" in no time flat. And with marriage comes more responsibility, Avengers chairman at the time Vision suggests the formation of a second branch of the Avengers on the west coast and Hawkeye was to be the new branches leader. To the surprise of some, Hawkeye proves to be an excellent leader, if still reckless. Really, he rates in the top three best chairman the teams every had.
But nothing lasts forever. During a time travel mission, team members got separated, Mockingbird allowed a man who drugged and raped her to fall to his death when she probably could have save him. Hard necked Clint saw that as the same as murder, and the argument over the matter led to his divorce. Soon after, the Feds have Hawkeye removed as chairman of the West Coast Branch, and the hot headed Clint quits in protest. Hawkeye serves off and on again to and through the Onslaught/Reborn/Return stories before finally quitting the team to lead the Thunderbolt, who at the time were criminals trying to reform as he once did. But since his return to the team after his group of T-Bolts disbanded, not even death, twice, has been able to keep him off the team.


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#119 TM2 Dinobot

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:22 PM

It irritates me when normal, powerless people come back from the dead.

...Twice.
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No, he's right -- not making that one character doomed the line. Doomed, I tell you. The minute we left him out of Series 1 a raven flew through our window. And killed an intern.


#120 Mirymate

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:51 AM

Does it help when both deaths and resurections involved warping the fabric of reality?
I mean, if Hawkeye had been taken out by some normal weapons fire or beaten to death by some super bruiser and then came back twice, yeah I'd be right there with you. But Wanda killed him, resurrected him when reality reset to HoM, killed him in that reality, then resurrected him again when everything reset. Which while ridiculous, does follow a certain degree of story logic when you know their histories. Clint, Wanda, and Pietro all joined the Avengers at the same time, and were for a while they and Cap were the team. (reffered to as Cap's Kooky Quartet) Clint was kinda sweet on Wanda, but also enjoyed annoying her, and harrassing Cap and Quicksilver. Wanda came to love Clint as a very annoying second brother. So when she went nuts, it makes sense she would kill him in revenge, but not want him to stay dead either.

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