Barry’s Blueprints of Hits and Heartbreak

[NerdyTrev]

I'm sorry to hear about how this line crumbled. That's a pretty irritating turn of events. 

Some of the pairings from those lineups come across as particularly hostile, in the sense that it's a lot of the C3 characters redone. As if DC Direct wanted to get the message across "we can do better than you without you," based on what you said, Barry.

[Chooch]

I love that Ma Hunkel was in there.  As for the DCUC comparison - remember that line was coming out after years of DC Superheroes where they were only allowed Superman and Batman characters.  

[buttheadsmate]

2 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I've said it many times ....so shall I say it again ?  Yep!  When you compare DC Minimates with their contemporary Marvel Minimates , they were yards ahead .  Wonder Woman  remains one of my all-time favourite Minimates.

 

 

1 hour ago, Barry said:

They were still designed in house by the same group of people, so it might've just been the change of scenery that helped refresh the artists a bit.

I stand by what I said & I'll add that DC Wave 1 (Feb 2007) heralded in ,what I consider to be, the Golden Age of Marvel Minimates which, I believe, began with TRU Wave 1 (Nov 2008) & lasted for several years .   Just take a look at that particular TRU Wave, compare the Hulk/Abom. set with the other 4 sets in that wave .The Hulk/Abom. set has its own particular charm but ,to me , it appeared ( & still does appear) decidedly dated amongst a wave that ,for me, is a classic .   

DC Minimates 'died' just as the Marvel Minimates renaissance began. 

[Barry]

I was just speculating on why people may have felt the DC releases were stronger, and that it wasn’t due to DC doing anything differently since they weren’t involved creatively.  It may simply have been that working on a fresh IP energized the same artists behind the other lines.

Citing TRU Wave 1 is amusing to me, because in my mind it doesn't exist.  I honestly have to look up what was in the wave when people talk about it to remind myself.  It was developed as Waves 21, 22, and 24.  When TRU Was interested, those were all in the hopper ready to go, so we put a wave together for them, with the idea that they would have exclusives created specifically for them by Wave 2.  I know Tony and the Stealth Iron Man were an EX, but really they were developed for the movie.  I have no files for Wave 1, my folders start with TRU Wave 2.

Anyway, W24 (as I'll call it, apologies) was the beginning of what became the regular team of Robert, Uriel, and myself working on the line.  Robert really wanted to push the brand and do things that they weren't doing before.  Musculature, alternate parts, details like striations in hair, extra tampo, removable masks for characters...  That did begin to some extent with Wave 17, but I think 24 is were we really got to shine on it.  17, 18, 21, and 22 were all movie based, so while we were pushing things, it was still more within the boundaries of working on a movie licence where reference might not have been available, or where looks of characters were not solidified until later in the process.

I began with Wave 17, and we experimented with ways to make things different even then.  I drew rounded head Spider-Men, ones with sculpted webbing, all sorts of different ideas.  We settled on the more traditional, but we knew we wanted to advance later.  

Not to say that 19, 20, and 23 were not advancing, but they were definitely transition waves.  Some designs included there were designed for much earlier waves, so they might've felt dated.  (Not to say that they were bad at all, but they were designed with the idea that they would fit the aesthetic of the earlier waves.)  Then you had me, new to the team, still figuring out the style and getting comfortable with the aesthetics.  Uriel was doing his usual beautiful work, and then also supporting me to bring me more on model, tweaking my designs where needed.  I had a bit of a test prior to those waves with some one-offs (Civil War Spider-Man for the ill-fated Target Spider-Man Classics, the Defenders box set, US Agent and Taskmaster), but by 24 everything kind of ironed out.  I understood it a bit more, and knew how to work in the parameters.  Uriel, yet again, was doing his usual beautiful work but didn't have to support me as much, and Robert really solidified the direction he wanted to go in. 

As mentioned, there's evidence to all this from 17 to 24, but because of the movies and the older unused designs making their way in, it's not as noticeable until you hit 24, where all designs were new for that wave.  We knew at the time that this wave was special, and we were super excited for it.  I think part of it was kind of knowing that the trajectory was now upward.  24 had characters that hadn't been made, but we also were remaking ones that were done before.  It was a moment where you felt that if we were able to retread but also iterate and have consumers come along for the ride then we'd done something right.  And while all the elements we brought to that wave eventually had to calm down a bit due to rising costs, it still helped us forge a new direction in what the line was, and where it could go from here.

And not to say that every wave after that was better than the last, we still were figuring things out as we went, but it just seemed a bit clearer from there.

Edited April 24 by Barry

[buttheadsmate]

6 hours ago, Barry said:

Citing TRU Wave 1 is amusing to me, because in my mind it doesn't exist.

Please forgive the fact that I have drawn on one sentence from your post ,possibly one of  the most enlightening insights into the evolution of Minimates I have seen on the MMMV .

'TRU Wave 1' was the f*cking end for me .....at least for a while .  An ol' guy in the UK collecting an American toy was suddenly faced with the fact that ToysRUs were selling..... exclusively in their US stores....a whole line of Marvel Minimates that he had no access to .    

TRU Wave 1 was not amusing to me .  In a nutshell , I went from a keen collector into ..... 

Spoiler

The Minimate Beast   ...I became ruthless .

Re: DC Minimates being 'stronger' ?  There were many factors , not least was the fact that a DC package showed you both figures in all their glory whilst contemporary  Marvel Minimates package showed you a caricature/picture of " what lay within the package" .....almost as if it was a surprise or an embarrassment .  A shocking marketing mistake for whatever reason that might be given.     With the 'new Marvel age' we were at least given a half-view of the contents ....& it worked.

 

 

[Trekker 42]

@Barry what the hell is the “Ill fated Spider-Man classics?”

[Barry]

On 4/24/2026 at 5:27 PM, buttheadsmate said:

Please forgive the fact that I have drawn on one sentence from your post ,possibly one of  the most enlightening insights into the evolution of Minimates I have seen on the MMMV .

'TRU Wave 1' was the f*cking end for me .....at least for a while .  An ol' guy in the UK collecting an American toy was suddenly faced with the fact that ToysRUs were selling..... exclusively in their US stores....a whole line of Marvel Minimates that he had no access to .    

TRU Wave 1 was not amusing to me .  In a nutshell , I went from a keen collector into ..... 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Minimate Beast   ...I became ruthless .

Re: DC Minimates being 'stronger' ?  There were many factors , not least was the fact that a DC package showed you both figures in all their glory whilst contemporary  Marvel Minimates package showed you a caricature/picture of " what lay within the package" .....almost as if it was a surprise or an embarrassment .  A shocking marketing mistake for whatever reason that might be given.     With the 'new Marvel age' we were at least given a half-view of the contents ....& it worked.

 

I completely understand the pain of retail exclusives when you live in another country, as I don't live in the US either.  It's better now than it was before, but 20 or so years ago it was absolutely terrible.  I don't want to know how much I spent on shipping and customs to get retail Star Wars exclusives over the years.  Even as it was, I didn't get all of the Minimates I worked on, and frequently had to buy them.  Over time, the factory helped me out as I became the go-to approver, but I actually bought my own comps for many a year there, which really kind of defeats the purpose.  Even as it was, I was frequently trying to prove to customs that I shouldn't be charged for approval samples.  They always thought I was importing the whole run of the product for distribution tax free.  That was ALWAYS a joy...

DC's package was good, although as a former comic shop manager, I disliked the round blisters.  They don't stay in nice piles that way.  Flat surfaces are the way to go!  Regardless, they are some of the nicest ones when hung separately.  Just don't ask me to arrange them in nice stacks.  The Marvel package only giving a peek into the box was a licencing issue.  It began with no figure visible, then we managed to get half the figure visible.  Not ideal, but we worked with it.

 

On 4/24/2026 at 7:08 PM, Trekker 42 said:

@Barry what the hell is the “Ill fated Spider-Man classics?”

There was supposed to be a corresponding Target 2pack wave that would have released alongside the Spider-Man Torment 5pk.  It was actually previewed in ToyFare magazine, although not all figures were shown.  Most of the figures were reconfigured and released elsewhere, but not 100% as designed for the 2pks.  The set was Torment Spider-Man & Powerhouse Venom, Melee Symbiote Spider-Man & Powerhouse Sandman, Civil War Spider-Man & Transformation Venom, and Web Armour Spider-Man & Transformation Green Goblin.

[Liney]

51 minutes ago, Barry said:

The Marvel package only giving a peek into the box was a licencing issue.  It began with no figure visible, then we managed to get half the figure visible.  Not ideal, but we worked with it.

I find licencing decisions fascinating - in this instance you can only show a picture of the product. Its like Universal in their licencing always used in insist Frankenstein had to have a green suit , despite recorded evidence the costume was black

[Barry]

5 minutes ago, Liney said:

I find licencing decisions fascinating - in this instance you can only show a picture of the product. Its like Universal in their licencing always used in insist Frankenstein had to have a green suit , despite recorded evidence the costume was black

There's a lot of strange decisions that are made, but they're usually done either to avoid a legal issue, or to try and help a product get made (believe it or not).  Decisions like the packaging would often be a way to make sure two companies with similar category products could be at retail at the same time.  The first company might say no other company could make product, then the licencing company would float by certain ideas to them until they liked one that would allow both products to be around at the same time.  So in this case, (and I'm hypothesizing here, I honestly don't know why exactly our rule was in place) the first company might've said no, Marvel might've said 'what if your product could be fully visible at retail, and theirs couldn't?' and then they agreed.  So, it's an odd rule, but it's better than them saying we couldn't do it at all.

For Universal, I wonder if it was due to similarities with The Munsters, or another competing Frankenstein prior to all of those monsters being public domain.  Like the packaging example, it was probably a concession between Company A and Company B.  "No other Frankensteins!" / "What if ours was green...?"

Same goes for Batman's Mad Hatter being Jervis Tetch on product now.  Alice in Wonderland is public domain, but they just don't want Disney sniffing around.  I always found that weird though, because the DC one's debut was 3 years prior to the Disney movie, but it's possible DC never got rights to use him from the book whereas Disney did.

[Liney]

Disney is another beast when it comes to licencing - the regular tweaks to characters to allow them to renew copyright, and their insanely long lasting copyright deals. 

Its like Winnie the Pooh in public domain in the US, and soon to be in the UK, but only based on the original E.H Shepard illustrations. If he's wearing his red shirt he's a Disney creation and is off the table. 

[buttheadsmate]

Believe or not......

When I was in my mid-20's I asked the boss of the printing company that I was working for if I could print some Christmas cards ,in my own time on his machine whilst I paid/made everything, film,  plate, paper etc.  Simple B & W cards featuring the illustrations of Shephard's Pooh  . Cutting a way-long story short ,these cards went down a storm ,everybody loved them. Encouraged ,I got in touch with Methuen, the publisher naively asking if I could attain a licence,  to  officially print more . They replied  promptly, informing me that no licence would be forthcoming to print anything 'Pooh' & that they would basically 'break my kneecaps"  if I did.     I didn't print any more   

If I recall correctly , Disney own the coloured illustrations but not the B & W .

 

 

[Liney]

I had a similar experience dealing with Milne and Shephard estates to requesting to use a quote and illustration in some training resources for social workers - there were so many hoops to jump through, I just removed them in the end.

[buttheadsmate]

12 hours ago, Barry said:

 Even as it was, I didn't get all of the Minimates I worked on, and frequently had to buy them. 

That is just ridiculous   

Shipping & custom charges have also cost me a small fortune over the years & were (partly) the reason for my 'buying in multiples'  .  When I look back , my collecting ,leastways the way I collected became obsessional . I justified (to myself) that if I was paying for one pack to shipped to the UK.... I may as well buy several & often pay the same shipping charge, keep a couple for myself  & perhaps trade away the rest .   It never worked that way  .    

  

[cylonchaney]

7 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

That is just ridiculous   

Shipping & custom charges have also cost me a small fortune over the years & were (partly) the reason for my 'buying in multiples'  .  When I look back , my collecting ,leastways the way I collected became obsessional . I justified (to myself) that if I was paying for one pack to shipped to the UK.... I may as well buy several & often pay the same shipping charge, keep a couple for myself  & perhaps trade away the rest .   It never worked that way  .    

  

I believe there was a line cut from The Hobbit where Smaug says basically the same about his hoard.  

[buttheadsmate]

I've heard about that line from 'the Hobbit' but there is no absolutely similarity between Smaug & myself 

Smaug was incredibly old & experienced ,last of his kind living on Lonely Mountain adjacent to Long Lake .  He was friendless , his loneliness was a by-product of his greed . By all accounts he was not necessarily sad but "terribly perturbed" & suspicious of thieves. He was apparently a victim of his own avarice ,sitting on his hoard that he had no use for other than to possess it.                        Despite this he was a conversationalist , when Smaug spoke (to Bilbo) he demonstrated a high level of intelligence & a "clever" albeit cruel personality .

F*ck all like me . 

-AmonHensmate

Edited April 28 by buttheadsmate
sp.

[cylonchaney]

2 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I've heard about that line from 'the Hobbit' but there is no absolutely similarity between Smaug & myself 

Smaug was incredibly old & experienced ,last of his kind living on Lonely Mountain adjacent to Long Lake .  He was friendless , his loneliness was a by-product of his greed . By all accounts he was not necessarily sad but "terribly perturbed" & suspicious of thieves. He was apparently a victim of his own avarice ,sitting on his hoard that he had no use for other than to possess it.                        Despite this he was a conversationalist , when Smaug spoke (to Bilbo) he demonstrated a high level of intelligence & a "clever" albeit cruel personality .

F*ck all like me . 

-AmonHensmate

I would say that aside from your hoards, there are no similarities.  I've said it before, you are much more generous than a dragon. 

[buttheadsmate]

Thanks 'cylonproductionmagnate' but I was hoping for a tad more agreement on the 'high level of intelligence' bit  ?

[cylonchaney]

1 hour ago, buttheadsmate said:

Thanks 'cylonproductionmagnate' but I was hoping for a tad more agreement on the 'high level of intelligence' bit  ?

That part is very much obvious to any who've spent time on the forum.

[buttheadsmate]

2 hours ago, cylonchaney said:

That part is very much obvious to any who've spent time on the forum.

I was just fooling around but I (think I) appreciate the compliment.....if it was ??   Minimates were never meant for the likes of me ...a 'passing phase' that has lasted 20 years  .  Over the years I've genuinely been humbled (seriously) to be surrounded by really f*cking clever people here who share a love for Minimates .  

 

[Padrino]

4 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

Over the years I've genuinely been humbled (seriously) to be surrounded by really f*cking clever people here who share a love for Minimates .  

 

It's one of the reasons that I keep coming back here and refuse to let go! This place has been a daily go to for me since I first discovered it.