Wave 88: New Fantastic Four

[buttheadsmate]

My quest to read this FF story arc ultimately but indirectly led to me finding this Youtube link or the Youtube link finding me ! The link explains how many of us  UK guys found a reliable (?) source of regular Marvel reading material in the 70's . it also pinpoints a Marvel comic that I am fairly confident I still own because the guy's wrong about one thing .....they were not throw-away items for me   I still have nigh on all of them.

 

https://youtu.be/FNK9ZmKYfFo?feature=shared

 

Forgive my indulgence .

PS.  I have the Hulk treasury edition as well 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by buttheadsmate
over-excitement

[HellfireSamurai]

The best upgrade to this set would be GR having a static stand of his motorcycle but alas that will not happen. Hoping we get some chains for him though.

[Nessex]

14 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

https://youtu.be/FNK9ZmKYfFo?feature=shared

Huh.... this possibly explains some curiously coloured editions I read in my youth! 
(Australia here)

[buttheadsmate]

On 10/21/2024 at 7:52 PM, buttheadsmate said:

Thank you , I've tracked them down on ebay & they're on their way . 

I read these as soon as they arrived , I wanted to join in with the enthusiasm but in all honesty I can't .  

I've now ordered the 2022 New Fantastic Four issues 1-5 

[DSTZach]

I am not a super big New Warriors fan,  but I think they are all very toyetic, so I would love to see Speedball with Vance, Firestar, Night Thrasher, Namorita and Nova. I know we have Nova, but he's the closest thing that set would have to an anchor.

[nandoninny]

3 hours ago, buttheadsmate said:

I read these as soon as they arrived , I wanted to join in with the enthusiasm but in all honesty I can't .  

I've now ordered the 2022 New Fantastic Four issues 1-5 

sorry to read that.

it could be the nostalgia or the fact this was the first time i saw all those characters team up (i can't remember if i had read secret wars by then or not).

but i think it holds up.  i started re-reading it again last night and hated putting them down.  

[Chooch]

2 hours ago, DSTZach said:

I am not a super big New Warriors fan,  but I think they are all very toyetic, so I would love to see Speedball with Vance, Firestar, Night Thrasher, Namorita and Nova. I know we have Nova, but he's the closest thing that set would have to an anchor.

Nova's New Warrior look was a bit different than his 70's look. Or there's the early red/brown or the later mullet look.

[Navaan]

12 hours ago, DSTZach said:

I am not a super big New Warriors fan,  but I think they are all very toyetic, so I would love to see Speedball with Vance, Firestar, Night Thrasher, Namorita and Nova. I know we have Nova, but he's the closest thing that set would have to an anchor.

Nova, Namorita in her blue form, Justice, Night Thrasher, Speedball. That's your set. Firestar has had a couple.

[buttheadsmate]

14 hours ago, nandoninny said:

sorry to read that.

it could be the nostalgia or the fact this was the first time i saw all those characters team up (i can't remember if i had read secret wars by then or not).

but i think it holds up.  i started re-reading it again last night and hated putting them down.  

I'm sure my views won't spoil your memories , take no notice of me. I just wanted to bring myself up to speed . I often re-read 40-50 year old comics  that I read & loved when they were fresh , I'm invariably left wishing I hadn't . 

[thereasonsy]

7 hours ago, Navaan said:

Nova, Namorita in her blue form, Justice, Night Thrasher, Speedball. That's your set. Firestar has had a couple.

Firestar had *A* figure almost 20 years ago and it was wrong. She also is one of the better known members of the team. Firestar and Marvel Boy can even come with extra heads to make Vance Astro and Spitfire. If anyone gets the axe it sadly would be Namorita. She’s an easy custom. 

[AFMcGill]

On 10/25/2024 at 6:29 PM, DSTZach said:

I am not a super big New Warriors fan,  but I think they are all very toyetic, so I would love to see Speedball with Vance, Firestar, Night Thrasher, Namorita and Nova. I know we have Nova, but he's the closest thing that set would have to an anchor.

Firestar was the co-star of a cartoon...

[BuffaloDelorean]

Marvel Boy could be skipped over, and done as an alternate look for Justice or Vance Astro in an Avengers or Guardians set, maybe.

[Navaan]

9 hours ago, thereasonsy said:

Firestar had *A* figure almost 20 years ago and it was wrong. She also is one of the better known members of the team. Firestar and Marvel Boy can even come with extra heads to make Vance Astro and Spitfire. If anyone gets the axe it sadly would be Namorita. She’s an easy custom. 

Absolutely not the blue skinned one with the red singlet or the Kymaera look. That said, I suppose I am failing to recall which other Firestar I am thinking of. But seriously, no Namorita, no buy, for me. As much as I appreciate needing tent pole/anchor characters, I am getting really, really, really tired of characters I already have or have no interest in.

[thereasonsy]

8 hours ago, BuffaloDelorean said:

Marvel Boy could be skipped over, and done as an alternate look for Justice or Vance Astro in an Avengers or Guardians set, maybe.

That’s what I did in my wishlist. With a fast follow GOTG set. 

 

5 hours ago, Navaan said:

Absolutely not the blue skinned one with the red singlet or the Kymaera look. That said, I suppose I am failing to recall which other Firestar I am thinking of. But seriously, no Namorita, no buy, for me. As much as I appreciate needing tent pole/anchor characters, I am getting really, really, really tired of characters I already have or have no interest in.

Nita in her Skottie Young Disney Atlantis look wouldn’t match the rest of the team eras. So the blue look would have to be her hodgepodge costume to make sense. Unless we could get two box sets for the Warriors 😈. After all we are also missing Rage, Sil, Turbo, and Powerpax. 

[Nessex]

12 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

Firestar was the co-star of a cartoon...

She was also a pivotal character at the end of the Krakoan era of the last X-Men run. 

[AFMcGill]

The idea of New Warriors without one of the members is terrible.

Who really wants a New Warriors boxset with a member missing and the vague hope that they maybe might be done somewhere else  one day? It'd be torture, and obviously less appealing, to have 5/6 members of a 6 person team in a boxset. Something like a six figure boxset of a whole team is far more marketable, desirable and easier to shift (and maybe even get some crossover attention from people who are simply fans of said team rather than of Minimates) than a boxset of "most of them". "Vance can be done in Guardians" - yeah, are we ever going to get a Guardians boxset?? We're still hinging on ever getting a New Warriors one and you're already hoping for something of even higher niche and unlikeliness to compliment it. And you realise - even if we do someone get both New Warriors and the original Guardians of the Galaxy - you are going to have to drop a member from that team too? And in that case there is zero chance of ever getting back around to getting that missing member because the original Guardians of the Galaxy have very limited interaction with anything else. (If anything, include Vance in New Warriors with Major Victory parts to compensate for a future Guardians boxset and not have to drop a member that way.)

Personally, I know it wouldn't happen, but I think boxsets of different amount of figures (when relevant) would be pretty solid. You can one wave have 4 figures then one wave have 6 either with minor price adjustments where necessary or keep a consistent price by making the 4 figure ones equal to 6 with tons of accessories and additional pieces. I think crossover appeal necessitates a boxset that someone outside of Minimates can go "oh, I love ______ and this is cool, they made all of them, I can buy this and have it on my shelf" more than "I like Wolverine so I will get this Inferno boxset". No one not buying Minimates is going out of their way to pick up a boxset of 80% of the New Warriors.

Bleh.

[thereasonsy]

4 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

And you realise - even if we do someone get both New Warriors and the original Guardians of the Galaxy - you are going to have to drop a member from that team too?

The original guardians were 4 members. 5 if you generously want to count Starhawk. If there is no flexibility in the box sets, which we have seen with Inferno, then one member has to be cut. The box will need a tent poll character so that means Nova and Firestar have to be in it. Although popular, Vance has the best chance of being made as an alternate look as a Variant Cap America or as a member of the Guardians. If Young Avengers and FF sold better then we wouldn’t be in this position but it’s the reality of the situation as explained. Currently we know the slate that takes us into 2026. If Firestar got picked up in the Spidey Wave then that would give us a potential NW set in 26/27 that could be close enough. 

[AFMcGill]

4 hours ago, thereasonsy said:

The original guardians were 4 members. 5 if you generously want to count Starhawk. If there is no flexibility in the box sets, which we have seen with Inferno, then one member has to be cut. The box will need a tent poll character so that means Nova and Firestar have to be in it. Although popular, Vance has the best chance of being made as an alternate look as a Variant Cap America or as a member of the Guardians. If Young Avengers and FF sold better then we wouldn’t be in this position but it’s the reality of the situation as explained. Currently we know the slate that takes us into 2026. If Firestar got picked up in the Spidey Wave then that would give us a potential NW set in 26/27 that could be close enough. 

Nikki doesn't count and Starhawk can only counts with generosity because shifting goalposts is the only way to make things "ok". "Original Guardians" becomes even less feasible when you take it to mean 4 dudes who appeared in a single story that didn't have any ripple until a few years later when they were brought back and half of them entirely redesigned. Speaking of, flimsy argument because to go off the unpopular one-off 4-man team then Vance's original design was an all purple suit anyway and he didn't even get the Cap shield/Cap connections until 1990. 

[DSTZach]

17 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

The idea of New Warriors without one of the members is terrible.

Who really wants a New Warriors boxset with a member missing and the vague hope that they maybe might be done somewhere else  one day? It'd be torture, and obviously less appealing, to have 5/6 members of a 6 person team in a boxset. Something like a six figure boxset of a whole team is far more marketable, desirable and easier to shift (and maybe even get some crossover attention from people who are simply fans of said team rather than of Minimates) than a boxset of "most of them". "Vance can be done in Guardians" - yeah, are we ever going to get a Guardians boxset?? We're still hinging on ever getting a New Warriors one and you're already hoping for something of even higher niche and unlikeliness to compliment it. And you realise - even if we do someone get both New Warriors and the original Guardians of the Galaxy - you are going to have to drop a member from that team too? And in that case there is zero chance of ever getting back around to getting that missing member because the original Guardians of the Galaxy have very limited interaction with anything else. (If anything, include Vance in New Warriors with Major Victory parts to compensate for a future Guardians boxset and not have to drop a member that way.)

Personally, I know it wouldn't happen, but I think boxsets of different amount of figures (when relevant) would be pretty solid. You can one wave have 4 figures then one wave have 6 either with minor price adjustments where necessary or keep a consistent price by making the 4 figure ones equal to 6 with tons of accessories and additional pieces. I think crossover appeal necessitates a boxset that someone outside of Minimates can go "oh, I love ______ and this is cool, they made all of them, I can buy this and have it on my shelf" more than "I like Wolverine so I will get this Inferno boxset". No one not buying Minimates is going out of their way to pick up a boxset of 80% of the New Warriors.

Bleh.

It would technically be 83.3333%, if we're making 5 out of 6. But the reason we don't do six figure box sets is because collectors balked at $50 per set. A New Warriors team set is a dicey enough proposition without a high price tag. I think five is perfectly acceptable to most NW fans, except the 17% whose favorite character is [insert character here].

[thereasonsy]

16 hours ago, AFMcGill said:

Nikki doesn't count and Starhawk can only counts with generosity because shifting goalposts is the only way to make things "ok". "Original Guardians" becomes even less feasible when you take it to mean 4 dudes who appeared in a single story that didn't have any ripple until a few years later when they were brought back and half of them entirely redesigned. Speaking of, flimsy argument because to go off the unpopular one-off 4-man team then Vance's original design was an all purple suit anyway and he didn't even get the Cap shield/Cap connections until 1990. 

Hi. If I remember correctly, Vance wore that costume going from their second appearance on. As you pointed out, the 90s is when they rose to more mainstream fame. It was at the same time as the New Warriors. In that series it was shown how Starhawk was manipulating events to form the team so he’s in a “original” in the same vein of Cap being an “original” Avenger. The fact still remains that Vance with the Cap Shield is popular enough to get figures made of him. Especially since he was also a part of the StarLord GOTG series. He, Angelica, and Nova are the three Warriors that would be able to be made outside of the existing 6 to get us to the goal: a complete original lineup of Warriors. But, two of those three are needed to help sell the set. Ideally, Vance and Angel would come with pack ins to make Spitfire and Major Astro. 
 

If there was a Namor set then yes, Nita works there. Speedball could go in a Spider-Man set as he was associated with him. An X-men set or a Spidey set could have Firestar. Etc. the only character that is stuck in the Warriors Wave would be Night Thrasher. Lastly, DST has to be watching what Legends does and sadly blue Nita was a peg Warmer. 

[AFMcGill]

10 hours ago, DSTZach said:

It would technically be 83.3333%, if we're making 5 out of 6. But the reason we don't do six figure box sets is because collectors balked at $50 per set. A New Warriors team set is a dicey enough proposition without a high price tag. I think five is perfectly acceptable to most NW fans, except the 17% whose favorite character is [insert character here].

Although I have little insight, was it possible they were balking at the choices rather than the price? I do understand you are talking more generally about retailers than customers but Modern Fantastic Four (already out-dated by time of release) and Young Avengers were catering to people still reading comics which is – as much as people want to deny – far more niche and elusive. You’re playing almost exclusively to fans and collectors with them. I do understand part of handling a license is that the owner is wanting product based on these new or current versions and that it is often unavoidable. Certainly New Warriors is no better a prospect on paper than Fantastic Four but I would say they maybe have a bigger more active fanbase than Young Avengers, or at least a fanbase that collect toys and memorabilia. 90s kids still have nostalgia and sentimentality for physical products. Overall, how different would a six pack of something extremely popular… I don’t know… 90s X-Men… fare against a six pack of the 2015 Young Avengers series that was cancelled within a year or the Dan Slott Fantastic Four?

[Navaan]

On 10/26/2024 at 11:13 PM, thereasonsy said:

That’s what I did in my wishlist. With a fast follow GOTG set. 

 

Nita in her Skottie Young Disney Atlantis look wouldn’t match the rest of the team eras. So the blue look would have to be her hodgepodge costume to make sense. Unless we could get two box sets for the Warriors 😈. After all we are also missing Rage, Sil, Turbo, and Powerpax. 

I'll take hodgepodge. I loved how dynamic the blue water elf look was.

[thereasonsy]

22 minutes ago, Navaan said:

I'll take hodgepodge. I loved how dynamic the blue water elf look was.

The Skottie look is interesting and harder to custom so an official release would be great but given the limitations of 5 characters I can’t see giving up another Warrior for it. 

[buttheadsmate]

I really want everybody to get the characters they want ......& I have to be careful because I tend to forget how long I've been collecting !

Namor for example .  I'm thinking  "we've had 3 Namors WTF do we need another ?" ....then I realise that we've not had a new one since 2010 ,14 years ago!  I get it.

The second 'Invaders' Namor is IMHO a spot-on wonderfully accurate rendition (?) of the character .....bloody perfect , couldn't be bettered & nobody should even try . The three other 'mates that made up the set aren't so memorable .   The first Namor (Defenders) on the other hand is less memorable, accurate but not memorable ....the three other 'mates in that pack are on the other hand 3 of my favourite characters of all time . Strange is superb, Valkyrie beautiful & a great Hulk .... & 17 years old 

[DSTZach]

1 hour ago, AFMcGill said:

Although I have little insight, was it possible they were balking at the choices rather than the price? I do understand you are talking more generally about retailers than customers but Modern Fantastic Four (already out-dated by time of release) and Young Avengers were catering to people still reading comics which is – as much as people want to deny – far more niche and elusive. You’re playing almost exclusively to fans and collectors with them. I do understand part of handling a license is that the owner is wanting product based on these new or current versions and that it is often unavoidable. Certainly New Warriors is no better a prospect on paper than Fantastic Four but I would say they maybe have a bigger more active fanbase than Young Avengers, or at least a fanbase that collect toys and memorabilia. 90s kids still have nostalgia and sentimentality for physical products. Overall, how different would a six pack of something extremely popular… I don’t know… 90s X-Men… fare against a six pack of the 2015 Young Avengers series that was cancelled within a year or the Dan Slott Fantastic Four?

Sure, Young Avengers was a tough one, with a mostly comic fan base, but it was also coming off a period of time in which America Chavez, Kate Bishop, Wiccan and Kid Loki all appeared in MCU movies and TV shows. We honestly thought it would have broader appeal. Some here wanted the first appearance Young Avengers, so we could have gotten Stature, Iron Lad and the young Cap kid, but I'm not sure they would have saved the set. 

Fantastic Four we hadn't done in a while, but it's not like they were drastically outdated versions of the characters -- plus, Mr. Fantastic had just been in a movie, and all have appeared in other movies. I forget how close the Superior Iron Man and Silver Surfer Black comics were to that set in terms of release, but maybe if they had been more classic Doom/Surfer appearances that might have helped. 

And complaints about price were vocalized here and elsewhere. It was not entirely based on sales, but in combination... I think a $30 or $40 FF-only set would have sold better. Ditto Young Avengers, maybe minus Marvel Boy.

Even with 90's kids on board, I would not say the defunct New Warriors team is more popular than either FF or YA. I said they were toyetic, meaning MAYBE the toys might appeal more to general toy collectors, but NONE of those characters have any movie tie-ins, except for Nova, KIND OF. None of them are superstars. I still want them. 

And 90s X-Men will still happen, I'm not 100% sure where they will be, or what we're waiting for, but they are still on the table. 

Edited October 28, 2024 by DSTZach