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G.I. Joe Minimates!


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1 hour ago, DSTZach said:

Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't think people who essentially boycott a toy line understand how supply and demand works.

Well you're doing a great job without trying then. And now starting to get a little personal.

I'm out.

 

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Posted (edited)

I understand Zach's tactic of "not understanding " he's often used it when replying to my posts :no:.

The term 'Bread & Circuses ' ,  it's basically ' superficial appeasement' & the reference to Kirk fits . Am I right 'cylonchaney'?

I also understand 'supply & demand' but I just can't fathom how further releases of Joe & Transformers are justified when, as far as I can see, the earlier sets are plentiful, available (unsold?)  & generally discounted? The fans might want further releases but surely the retailers are sceptical?  

 

 

Edited by buttheadsmate
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I think one of the worst things a company can do is go “if you want the possibility of X you have to buy Y, otherwise it’s your fault you didn’t get X.” The gaming industry is full of this. Shit is so expensive these days, do I want a tank of gas or a set of Minimates? You kind of have to prioritize what you want over the blind hope that you spending money on a thing you don’t care for will eventually get you the thing you want. Like, having too much of a personal stake in something? I’m not a business lady (I have a radio degree of course I’m not good at numbers) but it never feels right to see companies go “Oh the thing you wanted won’t happen cuz you didn’t buy the other thing.” Like shifting the blame almost? I dunno where I’m going with this. 

I buy a lot of toys (I just got the Classified retro Duke and Scarlet and they’re fantastic) but the amount of Minimates I want has shrunken significantly. I got the recent Daredevil set (even came out of YouTube retirement to talk about it) but as soon as I got those figures on the shelf I just had a feeling of, I dunno. This is it I guess. I used to buy everything, even things I didn’t know, just because I wanted to hope that it would lead to something I would want. 

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37 minutes ago, Smashmaster12 said:

 I got the recent Daredevil set (even came out of YouTube retirement to talk about it)

You got a link to that video? I’m always here for watching Minimate reviews. Especially from fellow forum members. 

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First things first, "Bread and Circuses" is the title of the Star Trek episode in which Captain Kirk wears this.

 

Secondly, because this has unofficially become the most hate-filled topic on the forum. I'm beginning to believe that making G.I. Joe minimates was the worst thing DST could have done for the brand.

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2 hours ago, NerdyTrev said:

I want Inhumans. Or Shi'ar Imperial guard.

Doesn't always work out.

True. Which is why I made customs of-

Flint, Stalker, Lady Jaye, Barrel Roll, Outback, Snow Job, Tunnel Rat, Spirit, Freestyle, Cover Girl, Helix, Heavy Duty, Shipwreck, Scoop, , Wild Bill, Ace, Low-Light, , Jinx, Kamakura, Clutch, Breaker, Raven, Vorona, Glenda, Quarrel, Rampart, Rock n Roll, Hawk, Iceberg, Torpedo, Airtight, Deep Six, Wet-Suit, Dusty, Bombstrike, Shooter, Salvo, Bullhorn, Barbeque, Firewall, Sparks, Thunder, Dialtone II, Joe Canuck, Dawn Moreno, Sparta, Chameleon, Law and Order, Mayday, Mercer, Chuckles, Valkyrie, Gung-Ho to join Snake-Eyes, Scarlett, Duke and Roadblock, who I also customized further, for the Joes.

And Cobra has-

Major Bludd, Firefly, Big Boa, Tomax and Xamot, Slice, Dice, Clay Moore, Wild Weasel, Copperhead, Night Adder, Overkill, Overlord, Dr. Knox, Dr. Mindbender, Interrogator, Munitia, Mad Monk, Guillotine, Stiletto, Mistress Armada, Alexander McCullen, Crimson Asp, Cobra Mortal, Lt. Deming, Leyla, Flying Scorpion, Blackout, Dr. Venom, Tombstone, Vypra, Cesspool, Pale Peony, Black Ice, Retrofit, Croc Master, Crsytal Ball, Raptor, Shadow Stalker, Ghost Bear, Kwinn, Ninja Ku, De Aco, Wraith, Scrap Iron, my custom Python Patrol characters of Pythone, Shrapnel, Bloodstop, Snakeskin and Gallows, and four custom black suited Vipers, plus my customized Cobra Commander, Baroness, Destro and Storm Shadow. 

Plus, Sei-tin and two Red Ninjas.

For the Deadnoks-

Zartan, Zarana, Zandar, Zanya, Buzzer, Torch, Ripper, Road Pig, Gnawghyde, Thrasher, Burn-Out, Monkeywrench, and Zanzibar are all sitting.

Still, I want MOAR. But I suppose I can be happy with my customs.

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I still hold out hope that we get more G.I. Joe Minimates. I was foolish and sold all of my G.I. Joe Classified figures when the G.I. Joe Minimates were announced. That ended up being a big mistake. I was hoping they would be as popular as the Classified figures, but they obviously haven't taken off. I ended up buying them all again except for a few that were way too expensive in my eyes. 

I understand what Zach is saying. if you want to get an army builder set then you should have been supporting the line from the beginning so that something like an army builder set would be possible in the future. I do hope that we do see an army builder set. It would definitely sell very well.

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12 hours ago, nandoninny said:

i think its time to lighten things up around here a little:

https://thehardtimes.net/lists/every-g-i-joe-ranked-by-how-well-they-could-teach-a-sex-ed-class/

this reminded me that part of the appeal (at least for me) to the joe line is the diversity of characters.  

 

I can honestly say, after reading through that lot, that I finally understand why this line could be huge . Thank you. My brutally harsh comments about this line are not intended to sink it , I wish it well .

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and i hope it made you laugh a little.

Sci-Fi being a virgin killed me.  there was an episode where he took another character to a comic convention and it was  a pretty accurate depiction.  

yeah, even without troop builders this line had the appeal of a wide range of characters and unique parts for the non-joe minimate collector.  but even as a kid i remember getting a few figures when they were new and yeah, they were cool.  but it became one of those where the more i had the more i loved them.  i even had some characters i hated for some reason but i thought it added great diversity to my collection (sneak peak, crazy legs, i'm looking at you).

and the repaints always made sense.  the tiger force/python patrol/etc.  it was a chance to get a mix of characters but in uniform colors.  or even the special brazil mission was a neat little set that i think came with a cassette.  

but i noticed with classified it was kinda similar, where the first few figures came and not much attention was given to the line.  but as more of the random characters started coming out that's when folks perked up.  alot of us had a favorite character that wasn't one of the main ones.  anyways, i could go on.  

again, i hope that article made you laugh a little too.

 

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On 6/5/2024 at 2:32 PM, Smashmaster12 said:

I think one of the worst things a company can do is go “if you want the possibility of X you have to buy Y, otherwise it’s your fault you didn’t get X.” The gaming industry is full of this. Shit is so expensive these days, do I want a tank of gas or a set of Minimates? You kind of have to prioritize what you want over the blind hope that you spending money on a thing you don’t care for will eventually get you the thing you want. Like, having too much of a personal stake in something? I’m not a business lady (I have a radio degree of course I’m not good at numbers) but it never feels right to see companies go “Oh the thing you wanted won’t happen cuz you didn’t buy the other thing.” Like shifting the blame almost? I dunno where I’m going with this. 

After refreshing my memory of the original Trek line (it was before my time), I have trouble seeing what the plan was with that series, but I never told anyone to buy boring Kirk Minimates in hope that we would make TNG Minimates, which seems to be what people were hoping for, right? Granted, we eventually made Picard and Sisko in that series, but I assume by then retailers were choking on Gladiator Kirks. 

My point is that if you want army-builders (or secondary characters) in a toy line, you need to buy the main characters that fight those army-builders. Before they got to Alpine and Dial-Tone and Techno-Viper in the Classified line, Hasbro had to make a few different Scarletts and a few different Dukes in regular boxes and retro cards and what have you. Out of curiosity, I consulted a checklist, and the first 30 Classified figures included 2 Snake Eyes, 2 Destros, 3 Cobra Commanders and 3 Roadblocks, not counting the entire WAVE of Snake Eyes Origins figures that are still on clearance at GameStop. 

G.I. Joe Classified Series action figures Checklist (actionfigure411.com)

Could we have done better with our Joe line? Sure. Would an army-builder set have succeeded this early? I don't know. I'll admit, the Red Ninja and Cobra Trooper came out fairly early on in the Classified line, but single army builders are a lot easier to work into a wave than into a box set. 

I wanted to compare the "Must buy X to get Y" to something else in life (I don't get the gaming reference), but it's hard to compare toy lines to anything. Kickstarter, or Hasbro's HasLab offerings are similar -- if you want to unlock X character, you need to back the big character or vehicle. The more of you back it, the more likely it is. I think that's fair.

Maybe a toy line is like a comic book series. If you don't like the main character in the book, you can stop buying it (or not start), but if you're just waiting for a certain character to show up BEFORE you buy it, then you can't get mad when they cease publication before that. See, even that is not a great comparison. 

If you want to get someone to fight Duke, you have to buy Duke. Especially if you plan to buy Duke as soon as the second thing happens. You don't have to buy EVERY Duke, but one would help. 

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49 minutes ago, DSTZach said:

Could we have done better with our Joe line? Sure. Would an army-builder set have succeeded this early? I don't know. I'll admit, the Red Ninja and Cobra Trooper came out fairly early on in the Classified line, but single army builders are a lot easier to work into a wave than into a box set.

Why? If a single army builder character is good… that is the box set. Just sell four army builders together.

Oh wait. DST likes to gatekeep “army builders” like the new Bullseye and Foot soldiers behind $40 box sets so that they’re cost prohibitive for a collector to actually build an army of figures without an excessive amount of costly duplicates of unique figures.

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1 hour ago, Swarm198 said:

Why? If a single army builder character is good… that is the box set. Just sell four army builders together.

Oh wait. DST likes to gatekeep “army builders” like the new Bullseye and Foot soldiers behind $40 box sets so that they’re cost prohibitive for a collector to actually build an army of figures without an excessive amount of costly duplicates of unique figures.

We actually try to do the exact not that.

We put a Foot Soldier in every set,  so you could collect multiple. If you want more than three, sure, that makes it difficult, but I don't know if a solid set would sell, not for us, not to retailers. I'll look into it, though. 

And Bullseye could be seen as an army builder, but having finally read the trade, the other two clones die fairly quickly, leaving the real Bullseye, so it's really not that big a selling point. 

But those are definitely two recent examples after 20 years of making army builders as accessible in variant two-packs as possible. 

 

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Posted (edited)

When I consider the tooling that has been necessary to produce many other lines , would I be right in thinking that GI Joe tooling would be considered minimal ?  As I gradually tune myself in to all the characters in the Joe Universe there seems to be very few characters that command the comment "he'll be difficult to make, think of the tooling " ? I'm also not totally convinced that all the guns, knives & nunchakus we get are necessary , all very nice but ...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the original GI Joe character was a guy that was naked & you dressed him up, Minimates don't generally work like that ...they generally get their clothes painted on. All that might seem pretty obvious but maybe that's why they ain't doing as well as we'd all hope ? Maybe the 'dressing up' bit was the whole bloody idea ? I could say the similar about Transformer Minimates that.. er.. don't transform. 

From a manufacturer's point of view , perhaps I'm woefully naive, but I would have thought that GI Joe was, compared to licenses like TMNT ,Muppets or even Marvel ......relatively simple ? They're paint-jobs & it's been a long time since anybody complained about the quality of Minimate paintwork, it's superb .  

 

 

 

 

Edited by buttheadsmate
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Posted (edited)

the original GI JOE was just that, a dress up doll for boys.....but with GUNS!

a real american hero (ARAH) was basically all of his outfits divided up into different personalities.  the original GI JOE had a marine, army, etc.  in reality he'd just be one.  and a he.  and white.  with a beard.  etc.

ARAH was all of his possibilities broken out into different personalities and just neat designs.  and from a sales point, this way it justified a kid having lotsa figures as opposed to just one or few with lotsa outfits.  the other factor was this allowed for vehicles and playsets.   plus there was a law here in the US about toys not being able to have cartoon tie ins b/c the cartoon would just be a long commercial for the toy.  i think GI JOE was one of the first cartoons after that law got repealed.  HE-Man being the other famous toy line that had a cartoon (i'm no historian and am going purely from memory which has been poisoned slowly over time with alcohol and other interests).  

as for the whole appeal of minimates vs GI JOE (lotsa outfits) or Transformers (transforming), i actually spent lotsa time taking my gi joes apart and swapping parts.  it was one of the things that drew me into minimates in the first place was the idea of being able to do that.  now i'm too anal to mess up a perfectly good minimate but when i was kid i didn't care.  for transformers its just about the characters.  there are a lot of products out there that don't transform.  the initial appeal may have been the transforming but again, the cartoon gave them personalities and us memories we want to relive today in the form of minimates.  that's my take anyways.  i do wish they had done vinimates of them though so that they would look big compared to other minimates but meh, i'll take what we got.  

Edited by nandoninny
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There is a lot of tooling for GI Joe. Everyone has a slightly different helmet, a slightly different gun. Sure, we have a lot of knives and pistols and holsters and harnesses, just waiting to go, but I'm pretty sure the Cobra Trooper helmet is different from the Cobra Commander helmet, and the rifle is fairly unique. The Crimson Guard helmet is unique, as is the rifle. Ditto the Viper. Ditto the Tele-Viper (one of my faves). Sure, most COULD be blank bodies with a few add-ons, but some like the Viper would warrant a full torso cover with grenades, etc.

Series 3 is mostly basic bodies with harnesses and holsters, etc., but there are some unique hats and hair pieces that are, I believe, tooled. Robert and I have been pushing to release them in more episodic VHS sets like the Transformers, but it is tough when Series 1 and 2 did not sell as well as we thought they would. I have not given up.

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Posted (edited)

i'd be ok with less detailed or slightly inaccurate.  they're block figures so its not like these are hot toys or anything.

but that's my take.

i am really impressed with what was done with the transformers in this regard.  the ninja turtles have had some really cool things done as well.  if i recall the alien line wasn't 100% accurate with some of thier sculpting on the marines.

thinking back, even the joe 25th line would reuse some of the parts rather than making a new unique part for some of the pieces.  then when the line did better they went back and redid the character with more unique parts (beach head comes to mind).   i'm sure marvel minimates were the same way.

and dude, you're teasing me with this series 3 talk.  but god bless you for continuing the fight!

Edited by nandoninny
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On 6/7/2024 at 1:00 PM, DSTZach said:

There is a lot of tooling for GI Joe. Everyone has a slightly different helmet, a slightly different gun. Sure, we have a lot of knives and pistols and holsters and harnesses, just waiting to go, but I'm pretty sure the Cobra Trooper helmet is different from the Cobra Commander helmet, and the rifle is fairly unique. The Crimson Guard helmet is unique, as is the rifle. Ditto the Viper. Ditto the Tele-Viper (one of my faves). Sure, most COULD be blank bodies with a few add-ons, but some like the Viper would warrant a full torso cover with grenades, etc.

Series 3 is mostly basic bodies with harnesses and holsters, etc., but there are some unique hats and hair pieces that are, I believe, tooled. Robert and I have been pushing to release them in more episodic VHS sets like the Transformers, but it is tough when Series 1 and 2 did not sell as well as we thought they would. I have not given up.

Playfully disagree!

You can use the Cobra Commander heads for the Viper plates.

You already have helmets with goggles molded on.

The Mercenary minimate from Civil War has a great vest, and you have a bunch of other 'military vests' look.

The rolled up sleeve pieces.

You have a bunch of different gauntlet looks.

If you want to make their rifle, okay, that one is pretty unique.

But Vipers would not be too bad unless you want to make them '1 to 1.'

Additionally, Cobra Troopers are just black bandana style face masks with helmets. And you have appropriate web gear for them, already.

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If 1:1 means "accurate", yes, Hasbro would prefer them to be accurate. Including weapons. 

Heads are nothing, we can make heads until the cows come home, doesn't matter if they're shiny or not.  But I'm not sure we have helmets that match all of the different helmet styles. Maybe we could piece something together,  but I don't know if it would be accurate enough to get approved. 

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On 6/4/2024 at 9:33 AM, DSTZach said:

If you don't want Duke, Destro, etc., that's fine. If you want Duke, Destro, and a Crimson Guard, but you don't want to buy Duke and Destro to GET a Crimson Guard, that's a decision.

I want a crimson guard and would buy Duke Dressed as Destro to get it 

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at the risk of being too touchy feely... I dont want this to be a DST bash.  it is easy to arm chair quarterback on monday morning, shit i do it all the time... I just want to say   A.  i am VERY happy with the figures we did get, and me begging for more is just a testament for my love of the properties i clamor for... Zach i definitely appreciate your candor and your willingness to keep fighting for more joes.   

Now having said that I would love to get an army builder, and would buy several sets regardless of who it came with.  pimp daddy destro is on the table for me.   so is blue and yellow baroness... 

If i could just get a Major Bludd i would shut up forever about future releases... 

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