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Watchmen Prequels


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#41 hellpop

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:06 AM

When they revisited stories like Age of Apocalypse, Days of Future Past, Kingdom Come, The Dark Knight Returns, etc, etc, the results were almost always unreadable.


WRONG!

DKSA and ASB&RTBW (from now on referred to as DK:BW) is a work of sheer genius (maybe mad genius, but still genius) and just as readable as DKR. The only problem is the artwork Jim Lee’s work doesn’t suit Miller’s outlandish noir pulp writting style so people look at it assuming it’s a normal hero book like Lee always draws and then the writing seems absurd, and DKSA is just garbage art, I don’t think Miller knew what Photoshop could and couldn’t do and assumed his wife would have more coloring skills or something, and when the art looks that bad no one is willing to give the story a chance.

anyway, I hope this “Before Watchman” BS gets Jim Lee off his ass so he FINALLY finishes Dark Knight: Boy Wonder, they can call it “Before the Dark Knight Returned” since it actually IS a prequel to a classic work as intended by the original creator and release it as a cash-in-tie-in-cash-in!


Well, first off, the man's not "WRONG!", he's expressing an opinion. Secondly... he's right, they're unreadable. My own recollection of DKSA was that I was apprehensive about it (since I don't particularly care for Miller's latter day work), but I found the first issue exceeded my expectations. The second issue, though, was as bad as I feared the series would be, and the last issue was just a mess. As for ASB&R, I will admit upfront that I haven't read much of it, but enough to consider it an abomination.

To me, Miller's latter-day Batman work (and I'd include the Batman/Spawn book he did with Toddy Mac) fail on two levels:

1. He's writing a character I don't recognize, don't like, and don't particularly want to read about. And that's not a problem necessarily; after all, one could say the same about the Batman from the original DKR. However, when you combine that with...

2. The man seems to have lost whatever storytelling craftmanship skill he had. Seriously, these are bad, inept comics; if they were produced by anyone not named "Frank Miller", they probably never would have even seen the light of day. Miller strikes me as a guy (and I think the Spirit movie confirms this) that believed his own press, all those claims of his genius, a little too much. He's like a Will Ferrel character in the first half of the movie (the part where he's drunk on his own hubris, before his downfall and humble return).

Miller's latter-day Batman work reads like a hate letter to the character, which is odd because Batman made Miller a Superstar. Not a STAR, mind you, because he was already that, but a SUPERSTAR. Batman made Frank Miller *FRANK MILLER*, and he seems to have enough self-awareness left to really resent it.

Anyway, my two cents. You're welcome to disagree. :wink:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: HELLPOP GETS IT.

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#42 Turtle

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:42 AM

To me, Miller seems to be focused primarily on one-upping his bad-assery, the results being that most of his modern stories are laughable at best. DKSA was just a hot mess, and I'm not really sure how it made it past an editor's desk. It certainly does not make sense as a follow up story to DKR. DKR and Year One are both great, praise worthy books, but everything else in Miller's Bat-mythos is seriously lacking any level of emotional connection, never Miller's strong suit but a prerequisite to a great book nonetheless.

#43 dr baghead

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:03 PM

Anyway, my two cents. You're welcome to disagree. :wink:


Good, and I shall disagree! I know most people will think I’m “wrong” and maybe they’re right about that, but dammit, History will prove me correct that ALL of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight books (I’m not counting Year One, Spawn Vs, or Holy Terror! in this only the ones labeled “Dark Knight") are amazing perfectly crafted pieced of pulpy goodness... except for the art in DKSA, history will shake it’s head in disgust at that.

....Batman and Robin painted themselves yellow and beat Hal Jordan senseless......and that's genius?? :ermm:


How is it not? It’s pretty damn funny (and intentionally so I might add), and it makes sense: Green Lantern is weak against the color yellow: you make yourself yellow.

In DKR Batman made Green Arrow a SYNTHETIC kryptonite arrow (at the cost of a ‘fortune and a lifetime’) just so he could weaken Superman enough to beat him senseless whisper “remember Clark, I beat you!” then pretend to die... that’s a less idiotic plan then painting himself yellow? It’s ‘totally cool’ for Batman to carry around a ring made of the one thing that can kill his ‘friend’ in the main continuity for “just in case", but painting himself to be the only thing can stop the infinite power of the Green Lantern is a “stupid idea”? He was trying to send a message just like DKR (the whole stabbing him the throat thing was Robin’s idea and not what GD Bat’s wanted) so he weaken a ‘God’ to his level just to say “you and your friends can’t stop me.” Was the option of meeting him not painting yellow on a roof top and getting his ass kicked but Hal a BETTER method to send his point across?

Like I said, made genius is a form of genius, and yes, painting himself yellow to confront Hal was GENIUS
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#44 Mirymate

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

At some point Miller, like a lot of his era's "greats", started to believe their own press IMO. Sure, when they started they were visionary, but as time wore on they became clichéd caricatures of their former selves. (See also Shooter, Claremont, Byrne, Moore, among others) Bendis' generation, and their love of over the top violence surrounded by pages and pages of emoting, are quickly heading in that direction too.

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#45 hellpop

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:48 AM

Good, and I shall disagree! I know most people will think I’m “wrong” and maybe they’re right about that, but dammit, History will prove me correct that ALL of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight books (I’m not counting Year One, Spawn Vs, or Holy Terror! in this only the ones labeled “Dark Knight") are amazing perfectly crafted pieced of pulpy goodness... except for the art in DKSA, history will shake it’s head in disgust at that.



I agree with you about the Hal thing, actually. I don't have a problem with that, accepting that you like this version of Batman in the first place, which I don't. :smile: But I'm glad you like it; at the very least, he's pushing the boundaries. BTW, Batman/Spawn is officially referred to as "a companion piece" to DKR on the inside front cover.

I agree with Miry's assessment about his generation of comic book pros, though. I dunno what happened to these guys. Maybe it's because these are the first real stars to come up in the fandom era? The cartoonists from the Golden and early Silver Age were basically operating in a vacuum; heck, it wasn't until Stan Lee came along that you started to see the credits appear regularly in comics. It's always interesting to read about those old pros going to a comics convention for the first time; the reaction is always the same: "I can't believe anybody cares about this stuff". Most of today's best artists couldn't get work in 50 years ago; guys like Gil Kane and Infantino had to be good AND FAST. What would a guy like Jim Lee do?

Sorry, got off on a bit of a rant there... :blush: Anyway, the first real fan favorite was Neal Adams, and his popularity certainly went to his head. I mean, have you seen Batman:Odyssey? I think these guys went to all these cons, read all these fanzines, and they started to think that everything the do is great, because they did it, like greatness is some kind of intrinsic property. It's the same with many of the guys today, except they're reading CBR instead of fanzines. Hell, it's probably even worse now, because editorial doesn't care, they like pissing the fans off because "if they're complaining, it means the story worked". Which is ridiculous. I mean, Joe Quesada's proud of One More Day! Proud! :verymad: Say what you want about Jim Shooter, but at least he held his creators to a standard!

Err... sorry about that.:blush: Guess I've had that rant built up for awhile. :happy:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: HELLPOP GETS IT.

Great. there will be no living with him now.rolleyes.gif

#46 karamazov80

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

. . .not what GD Bat’s wanted

"GD Bats" :lol: I actually do love that Frank Miller gave us that. Because it is one of the most insanely memorable things I've seen from comics in many years.




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