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ReWatching The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes


nate_studio

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Again, I love how the character introductions just assume you've seen the Hulk movie. He's on the run. We don't need to be told that. And again, throwbacks to Hulk Vs are noticeable. I absolutely LOVE this version of the Hulk/Banner. The animation is amazing, the action is phenomenal and the writing is superb. It's the little things that make this episode though.

GI Joe. Stalker and Wild Bill. Seriously, it's them. It's amazing. Also, the cop in the first sequence was driving a mustang. Transformers reference? Either way, someone (writers or animators) is a fan.

Ross being a dink. I really hate that guy. It came across well.

Hawkeye. Everything about him. Hawkeye is great, better than Deadpool IMO. He reminds me of the Flash from JLU.

The fact that "The Cube" wavered with heat lines in the desert as they approached the prison. It's little detail like that that just set it apart.

"Red Room." Nice foreshadowing of things to come. I've always had a soft spot for the Black Widow when she's written correctly. This gives her the grade A treatment. I can only hope in late season 2 or 3 that we get a Widow episode where Natasha and Yelna face off.

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Meet Captain America.

First off, let me just say that as a history major, I love old news reels. So the fact that a not-insignificant amount of this episode takes place as exposition in black and white pleases me. Here we begin to see the first inclining of the Cap and Thor movies. I don't think there was much there, but as Miry said, they may have had the pre-production scripts or something. I don't know. But Hydra>Nazis is fine but Red Skull hunting for Asgardian relics seems a connection they couldn't have made on their own. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

The rocket scene works a whole heck of a lot better than the Cap movie (the last 40 mins of that movie was just terrible) I do think that this episode is missing Tommy Lee Jones though. :P I see they went the nuclear missile route from the Ultimates, which is a pretty good idea IMO.

I liked the fight sequence with the critters. It was very well animated. Laufey coming through the portal looked very cool.

I really really enjoyed Bucky. I thought he would be annoying given how much people dislike him, but Scott Menville really channeled the Robin through and made him a likable and important compliment to Cap. Cap was awesome as well. The Howling Commandos were great (Logan!) but my question is, where did they go? They kinda disappeared, never to be heard from again. I hate that.

The animation here was just cool. Very mad scientist like. I love that kind of stuff. Red Skull's silhouette on the wall was awesome.

And this was this grape-faced dude running around that threw the ntire episode out of whack. What was up with that? :lol:

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This is one of the episodes where you can see the original intent creeping in. That intent being that EMH was originally meant to be a companion show to Wolverine and the X-Men. So yeah, Logan in there with the Howlers, the MRD is mentioned later, and the WatXM mansion shows up on the cabby's paper in another episode. All clues that these series were originally supposed to share a single universe. With the X-shows' cancellation, I do not think that's still the case. Nor do I want to try to piece the two shows' continuity together, as it gives me a headache thinking about it.

And it sets in motion future events- Kang as the observer, trying to find where the time line went wrong. Bucky and the Skull's "deaths", Cap's suspended animation. These will all become increasingly important as the series goes on. The original tale in the 616 simply served to explain how Cap could be in the "modern" world. This one does so much more in terms of driving the overall narrative of the show. And in doing so, shows that this show, despite being a cartoon, is not afraid to tell a complex story.

The Hydra - Nazi angle... it works, and calms the main objection that killed an in-development Cap show back in the 90's- Nazis were seen as inappropriate for kids' television. And Marvel realized in the Cap movie development process that you couldn't sell Nazi toys at Wal-Mart. So Hydra takes it's place. But they've left things very vague about WWII Hydra hierarchy. Was Zemo the ultimate head from the beginning? Like the ultimate fate of the Howlers, inquiring minds want to know.

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Thanks for taking the lead on this one, TM2. I was busy getting myself a new job this morning, so I missed doing the first post.

S1:E4 - Meet Captain America

Captain America and Bucky join forces with Jack Fury and his Howling Commandos for a final confrontation with the Red Skull and his HYDRA forces!

The animation in this episode is awesome. I don't know if a different studio did it or if they were just improving, but there are a lot of really great moments. TM2 mentioned Red Skulls silhouette, and also the old reel footage scenes. Another animation piece that stood out was when Kang takes manual control of fast forwarding time... the glaciers growing looks beautiful. (I also love that episode of Futurama where they time-travel, miss thier destination, and have to cycle all the way through again)

It's hard to tell Cap's story in 20 minutes, but this episode does an amazing job - plus they show that it's just one piece in a much bigger puzzle. Like Miry mentioned, I like how they incorporate Cap being frozen into the plot instead of just using it to keep him young in modern times. All of these micro episodes really do a great job at giving a hint of things to come. They are more than just background history episodes or character introductions and I really appreciate that as a cartoon fan.

I like Logan being hinted at as part of the Howlers. I'm glad this show doesn't really line up with Wolverine and the X-Men, because as much as I ... well actually it kinda sucked. I have a lot of problems with that version of the X-Men and I don't want it to be the same universe as this excellent Avengers toon. It is pretty weird that they Howlers didn't make it to Red Skull's castle and weren't seen for the rest of the episode.

Hydra works really well subbing in for Nazis and Red Skull is awesome. His scheme is pretty far fetched, even if it was working. Still, I enjoyed this version of the Skull. I personally found Bucky a little annoying here, though I was sad to see him explode. Watching this made me better appreciate the movie version of Bucky where he and Steve Rogers were good buddies before the war and Bucky was able to enlist while Steve wasn't. You know, instead of being some 15 year old who just happened to stumble in on Rogers changing into his costume.

Another great episode to build up the characters and the conflicts for the first season.

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Yikes! It's Tuesday evening and I'm just now getting around to Episode 5!

S1:E5 - The Man in the Ant Hill

Catch three astonishing tales featuring Ant-Man and Wasp!

Least descriptive episode description yet.

This isn't a bad episode, but it's my least favorite so far. I'm just not a huge fan of Ant-Man, Wasp, or Black Panther. I like they way they're all represented in the show - Ant-Man wants to be a scientist not a hero, Wasp on the other hand wants to use their abilities to serve and protect. Black Panther isn't shown much yet, but he's kinda cool later on in the show. Things that bother me are Hank Pym's hair, Janet's hair and Man Ape. None of those things look right.

We're also introduced to Claw, Whirlwind and Ultron and the Big House. Oh and vibranium, but that may be less important. All of these (with the exception of Whirlwind) will become more important later on.

This is really the least exciting episode so far and, since he's the butt monkey of the Avengers, I blame Ant Man. He's just not a very exciting character, in my opinion. Like they say, "When your cartoon's main star is Ant Man, the rest of your cast should be apology letters." His struggle between scientist and super hero is interesting, but he's just not a leading man.

It's also weird that they seem to hint at Wasp being a mutant, but nobody ever actually mentions it. I think TM2 has mentioned this theory some in the past. It's all vague but I wonder if they never got around to it or just backed out of the idea. Either way someone should explain why she suddenly has wings when she shrinks. And someone needs to explain why she's so much bigger when she shrinks than Ant-Man when he shrinks. Is there that much of a size difference between a wasp and an ant?

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Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!!! Waspwaspwaspwaspwaspwaspwasp!!!!

Okay, now that that's out of my system.

This is, by far, the weakest "episode" of the entire series. It clearly was not meant to go together, and has only the vaguest connection to itself. Remember that these micro episodes aired over several months, and their respective parts could be weeks apart. Tis is a prime example. The man in the ant mound was ont of the first epiisodes on Marvel.com, while the Black Panther was, I believe, the last. Shoving them together was so disjointed it suffered. I'll take them in turn anyways.

1) Omgomgomgomgomgomgomg!!! Waspwaspwaspwaspwaspwaspwasp!!!!

2) Okay, so apparently I wasn't quite through. But if there's one thing about this episode, it's that there's not enough Wasp, but that she's SO good. Obviously they changed her up a bit. I have no idea what she was like in the comics, but I know she was a fashion designer. (and wasn't her name 'van Dyke'? Did they change it due to negative connintations?) She's smart, spunky, brave, sexy, rich, I need to stop before I embarrass myself.

2) Any Man is cool. He really is. he handles himself well, good powers, cool fighting sequence. He's just... a dink. I can see how they're setting this up (especially later in the Kree episode) where instead of treating Jan cruelly and beating her, they're going to use emotional abuse instead of domestic. I only hope the writers have the balls and skills to drop the hammer when it comes time.

3) Whirlwhind is funny. And a mutant. I wonder where they're going with that now that the fans killed Wolvy and the Xmen.

4) Klaw. Didn't he run around in a purple onesie and get killed by Ms Marvel? I kept expecting him to say "Curse you Gadget!"

5) Black Panther. Ah yes. I love this version. Very cool. He's clearly the Martian Manhunter of the team, and Tony Stark's intellectual equal (though we don't know that yet.) I found the music when he was beneath the panther statue to be quite moving.

Did anyone see that awful Black Panther motion comic on BET? It was so racist it wasn't even funny. However, it was very nice exposure to Black Panther and Wakanda. A xeophobic race with advanced technology, and the relationships therein. It was a really bad story even, but I can see the similarities. EMH is much nicer though.

Here's a question, why are only 3 of us posting? 0-o

Sorry, I'm just dog tired right now.

WASP!

wasp.jpg

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One man's weakest episode is another's most densely packed episode. So much happen. So much introduced.

I'll start with Klaw. Ullysess Klaw has always been obsessed with using vibranium in his sonic based weaponry. Why a metal that absorbs all vibrations would be useful in a vibration based weapon, I don't know. In the 616, he kill T'Chaka for it himself. Here he just helps, but the end result is the same. And yes in the 616 Klaw will be transformed into a sound creature too, but he quickly gains more control over himself and reforms into a more humaniod form... with the odd purple shorts.

But the opening is a nice intro to Hank and his Ant-Man powers, and his obsession with science. Poor Hank. Only Peter Parker is more motivated by guilt, and Pete doesn't beat himself up to any where close to the extent Hank does. Guilt? About what? See Hank Pym was a successful P.H.D. in biochemistry when he stumbled on the Pym particle. Now depending on which version of events is currently accepted he was either already married to, or got married shortly there after, to a beautiful young Hungarian girl Maria Trovaya. She was a disident to the communist regiem in Hungary, and in some versions so was her scientist father (which is presumably how she met Pym) Anyway, I suppose feeling full of himself from his scientific breakthrough, Hank and Maria take a European vacation, and make a stop in Hungary. Both Pyms seemed to think his position as a famous American scientist would protect them. They were wrong. Maria is kidnapped of the street and murdered by the Hungarian secret police, Hank gets the hell beaten out of him and s dumped at the Amercian Embassy. It would mark the last time Hank Pym felt sure of his own judgment on anything, and the begining of a deep seated self loathing for how badly he screwed up. You can pretty much trace all of Hank's mental problems back to right here. His fear of intemacy, his insecurity, his desire to retreat to the safe isolation of a lab, his desire to be a hero inspite of it all. But that's a whole heck of a lot to hang on a kid's show. So they skip all that and make Hank a pacifist who believes through science there is a better solution. This works for me on several levels, but mostly it lets Hank be a very different kind of character than you usually see in a kid's show.

And hey, Ultron!!

Wasp... this is a wonderful depiction of Wasp in her silly girl phase, a mode she still goes into from time to time in the 616 if she's surrounded by her friends. Of course, in the 616 Jan grew out of it, and became one of the Avengers' most successful leaders. Like Hank, no origin is given for her powers. In the 616 Hank gives Jan her abilities, the Ultimates said Jan was a mutant... and asian. Which will be true here only time will tell. It's stated in a kid's book (okay on a trading card that came in a kid's book) that my youngest has that Jan is Hank's business partner, and funds his research with her fortune. Why they couldn't have worked that into this script I don't know.

Dave Cannon, our boy Whirlwind. Love this guy. Just love the goofy pointy helmet. Whirlwind is a long time Giant-Man and Wasp foe from way, way back. And it's nice to see him used here in that same capicty. In the 616, Dave develops an obsession with Jan, not unlike TM2, and can't seem to stay away from her. He gets his butt whupped lots because of that.

Nice introduction to T'Challa, and the defining momment of his origin.

And I could go on, more SHIELD, the BIG House and it's inmates... yep I could ramble a while on this one. But I'll see if someone other than TM2 and nate want the floor.

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We should rename this thread "3 random dudes discuss EMH."

The Breakout, Part 1. Maybe we can get something together for monday. This week was just brutal.

Latvia! So great to see the universe expanding. I love AIM, and their costumes are so great.

I thought Balder really was Thor's brother? But I love the scene where they're standing on the roof top with their capes flapping. So funny. I like Thor's infatuation with Jane Foster, and her characterization given. Thor fill a nice comedic relief spot. The straw!

The Leader. Jeffery Combs gives such a subtle and underplayed acting role that it is just delicious.

Surprise! Everyone broke free! Really, in what reality did this seem like even remotely good idea? All the smart people figured out it was going to happen. It's essentially Jurassic Park, but with Super Powers.

Huh. Whiplash is a chick. Interesting. I LOVE Ironman's muffled shouting when Crimson Dynamo had his head. Good bit of comedic relief.

When Fury landed on the Raft, the music was cool.

Gravaton. I thought for sure it was going to be the Sentry.

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Geez you two are flying through these.

Now the action beings in ernest. The mass breakout at all four prisons. Guest stars galor!!

The Mad Thinker I really hope we see again. Griffen, Cobra, Blizzard, Living Laser, U-Foes, Wendigo... easter egg heaven!!

Whiplash as a woman... in the 616 there has been both a Lady Blacklash and I believe a female Whiplash since the death of Mark Scarlotti. (the original Whip/Blacklash) So I'm guessing that's why Whiplash is a girl, and dressed like Blacklash.

Interestingly, I think the promenance of Crimson Dynamo speaks to CD being the original villian in IM2. Or at least that's what EMH producers must have thought that's what was going to happen when they heard the villians' name was Vanko. Otherwise I think the CD would have looked more like final battle Whiplash, and EMH Whiplash would not have a girl. Just sayin'.

Nick taking the raft... this was a deliberate nod to the 616 Nick Fury. The lines were vintage Nick Fury and fun hear spoken.

Ah Graviton. One of the handful of villains that have battled an entire team to a stand still. Including Thor. Next episode does an excellent job of showing just how powerful Hall is.

Oh and here's another link between WXM and EMH- There's a Wendigo seen flitting around the Raft. In the Hulk vs Wolverine episode, SHIELD was attempting to create a retro virus that changed people into Wenidgoes. But there's no explianation of where Nick and company got the Wendigo DNA to make the virus... until we now see they had one at the Raft.

My other question... who has been catching all these super criminals? Thor seems a very recent arrival. Ant-Man and Wasp are new players too. Have Tony, Bruce, the FF and SHIELD really been catching all these bad guys by themselves? For a decade it sounds like? Really? Did they just take "we suck this" pills before the begining of the series? Cause they look really ineffectual here. And I guess the FF were out of town again. Unreliable bunch that Richard's clan.

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What a week indeed... sorry for getting to Episode 6 so late Miry and TM2.

S1:E6 - Breakout (part I)

On a day like no other, the Super Villain Prisons open wide, simultaneously releasing every single villain in a breakout the world has never seen.

This is actually the first episode of EMH that I ever watched. I was immediately impressed with the series. It's great to watch things in the actual order though, because all of the micro-episodes give so much backstory to what happens here.

Breakout part I is a lot of set up and much of the meat is in part II. Still some great stuff here. So many cameos by villains! I guess that's what happens when they all get released simultaneously. I'm pretty fuzzy on Avengers villains, but there are some great designs and powers shown here. And like TM2 said, Leader's voice acting is perfect. So much character int that voice!

We also have a few references to Dr. Doom without ever specifically mentioning Doom. That's kind of weird given that the F4 actually show up later in the series. Maybe that F4 cartoon was still going on at this point so they couldn't mention him by name? I have no idea.

So we've been introduced to a lot of heroes and we need something so crazy that they all have to band together. This definitely works. Did something like this ever happen in the comics? It's a really fun idea to have all of the villains suddenly on the loose... especially the ones nobody wants out in the open like Graviton.

Can't wait for part II.

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Here we go

S1:E7 - Breakout (part II)

The Super Villain breakout has begun, and it's everything our heroes can do to stay alive!

After a brief backstory on how Graviton got his powers, the episode plays out as one long action scene. This is incredible. The animation is awesome in this episode. The characters aren't always on model, but the effects of Graviton's powers - the way things crumble, shatter, break and tumble- are all beautiful. Each character is given at least two chances to really shine during the fight, which is nice to see. It gives you a few opportunities to root and cheer for your favorite (Thor in my case) and better appreciate those you may have underestimated (Ant-Man and Wasp, for me).

What really helps this episode is that Graviton is all about power. He's not a plotter or a schemer. He doesn't have a master plan. He's just out from prison with revenge on his mind and all the power of the universe on his side. It works here because this is the first time our heroes have had to work together. They don't have time to figure out how to work with one another to unravel some big picture plot, but they can work around each other to smash some guy's face in. It's great for this episode to get us excited about the series, but I'm not sure it would have worked as well later in the season. Still, awesome to watch the heroes get tossed around and give it as good as they get it.

So the main focus is definitely the action pieces, but there's also a little bit of character and story at work. Most obvious is the Avengers forming and the heroes sticking up for Hulk. He's progressed a little since his micro-episode and is really trying to make a go of being a hero. Wasp is also really excited to be a super hero, but Ant-Man has reservations. He helps when he's needed, but is really just disappointed in Graviton for wasting his amazing powers on revenge and destruction. The other main thing is the distrust of Fury and SHIELD. Iron Man and Ant-Man were weary of them before, but after the breakout and realizing SHIELD was responsible for creating Graviton... I'm not sure there's any trust left.

It was also cool of this show to have the original founding members of 616 Avengers be the original founding members of EMH Avengers.. although I can't wait for Cap to join (and Hawkeye!)

Favorite moment: Graviton claims to be the strongest there is right before Hulk shows up and gives him a well-deserved brutal thrashing.

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Graviton is the perfect villain for this episode. And his power is on full display in all it's majesty. And for most of the episode, the other Avengers each get a chance to shine as well... except Iron Man... he doesn't come off as all that effective. But since he is the hero that is most familiar to audiences when this episode first aired, that's probably by design. Thor lowers Manhattan... epic.

But the big selling point here is the Hulk. The near limitless power of Graviton against the unlimited rage of the Hulk. It's never been done in comics to my knowledge. Graviton invariably goes after some old grudge, be it the Avengers, or the Thunderbolts, and rarely anyone else. Hulk has little to do why either group. But watching it seemed like such a natural thing to try, it was great. And it also highlighted Hall's in comics weakness: his self confidence. His power is tried to his will, and since he was an arrogant SOB even before getting the Magneto-esque upgrade belief in himself is normally never an issue. But get Hall to doubt himself, and his control starts to slip. It happens in comics, and it happens here as well. And man was it cool.

I also like the budding friendship that begins here between Hulk and Wasp. She's the first one to actively team up with him, and through out this season you see them working together. Or at least, you see Jan enjoying asking Hulk to hit things... and people.

And the comics nut in me likes that they resisted the urge to put Cap or any of the others on the team right away. The founding five members on the show are the founding five from the comics. It's a nice touch.

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Haven't watched this one yet. But I remember just going "Jeeze. point Hulk and stand back."

I love how the title sequence adjusts with who's on the team.

Okay, rewatched it. I actually forgot this was the 2nd part, so I felt a little disjointed, like "Hey, shouldn't they have had the SHIELD Helicarrier crash in the show and not the webisodes?" But they did. Silly me. :P

Like I said, point back and shoot. But I love that Hulk is actually a character in his own right, who can negotiate with Banner.

Antman's resolve that Fury screwed up and now he was going to have to fight was great, and also sad. Antman really is a good character, because he has so many flaws. They come out well here.

Jan was so cute! I love when she was little and the water drops were splashing all around her. I was like "Oh no! Watch out!" :P And the exchange between her and Iron Man was great.

Iron Man ordering people around. It's just a natural thing to do in intense situations, to either give orders or follow them. Hulk will have issues with that later. But it was a good bonding moment for the team.

When Hulk showed up, I was like "Oh yeah. Now you're dead." And then it was Hulk Vs Shipping Containers.

And Wasp has some serious stingers if she can cut through an entire container like that. Are those her comic powers?

When Graviton killed the Fury Bot, I thought it was supposed to be him crushing the TV. That would have been a good commercial break. Kinda screwed up on that one.

Okay, this is boring. It's just 3 of us sitting around reviewing each episode. :/

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I'm too busy to rewatch this but do enjoy all 3 of your takes on the episodes. Be like Hawkeye's Junk and keep it up!

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Like Webhead, I haven't had the time to watch all of the episodes, but I enjoy you guys' takes on everything. I've been letting my 2 year old watch this, and he really likes it, especially the "Cappin Mercuh-cuh" episode. We've had to rewatch that one.

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And Wasp has some serious stingers if she can cut through an entire container like that. Are those her comic powers?

Close. Jan's stings are bio-electric, powered both by her bodies natural energy and by the energy given off by her shrinking. She can blast her way through most normal building materials and I believe at least a half inch of steel. And then she's even stung Galactus at close range and he's felt it enough to irritate him. (Mind you, he was dangerously low on energy at the time) So blasting through those empty containers wouldn't be too much of a stretch in the comics. But like in the comics, EMH Wasp's stings are as powerful or ineffective as the writers' need them to be.

As a side note, one ability comics Jan possesses that EMH Jan has yet to show- Jan can keep her wings while within one foot of her normal height. While she was leader of the Avengers, she adopted a "normal" fighting height of one foot tall, rather than the usual 3" to 1/2" size. And she can use her stings at full height, wearing nothing but a bathing suit. EMH Wasp seems to need her costume to use her powers. We'll see if that's actually true.

And yeah, Jan has on very rare occasions used her Pym particle powers to grow to giant sizes. She cannot sprout wings at any size over 4'3", so she can't fly at giant size. And she has not been seen using her stings if she's larger than normal. But like Hank, she gains super strength and durability. But like almost every other person who has tried growing to gigantic heights with Pym Particles, Jan began to experience increasingly erratic behavior (like sleeping with Hawkeye, getting flustered in combat situations erratic)(otherwise known as bad writing from Chuck Austen) during th only period she regularly grew to giant sizes, so she went back to only using that aspect of her powers in dire emergencies.

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That is the Ultimates origin, yes.

616 origin is that Hank gave Jan her powers so she could be his partner. The "stingers" were originally wrist mounted, compressed air powered needle guns. Her wings are "specialized cells" Hank developed and implanted in her back, and are a part of her at this point. In hindsight, it sounds like a form of fast replicating stem cells designed to create insect wings. The reason the only appeared when she shrank was originally the wings did not change size as Jan did, they stayed a constant size. Jan also had antenna implanted in her forehead, so she didn't need a helmet to talk to insects. The antenna cells atrophied pretty soon there after. Which is probably why Hank never performed the procedure on himself. Later, still during the Giant-Man phase IIRC, Hank gave Jan her initial energy stinger bracelets. During Hank's Yellowjacket years, well before his third (complete memory loss) and fourth (delusionally hit Jan) breakdowns, Hank upgraded Jan's powers all the way around. This is when she gained her current sting powers, which she initially focused through her bracelets, and greatly increased her speed, strength, and endurance. The bracelets were rarely visible under Jan's gloves.

EMH Wasp's wings look like they are a part of her. She wears those antenna on her ears, but why hasn't been seen. And she's hasn't used her stings without her gloves. I do not remember the mutant reference you heard, Choppah-face. Not sayin' it ain't there, just that I didn't catch it.

Personally, I'm hoping she's not a mutant. Just because the mutant origin was so criminally overused in the late 80's/early 90's. Did you know they even declared the Hulk a mutant for a while? Yeah, they did. Apparently Banner's high intelligence was his mutant power. Yeah, Falcon was a mutant for a while too. They both got over it. So I have a distaste for retroactively making people mutants.

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It's good to know that some people are reading even if they aren't watching. :thumbsup:

S1:E8 - Some Assembly Required

The Avengers have assembled, but calling themselves a team is different than being one -- especially when you've got the Hulk as a member.

...or as Iron Man put it... "not the most promising Day 2".

When you get a group of heroes together, you always have conflicts. That's basically what this episode was about. It worked overall since the main conflict was the Hulk thinking everyone else thought he was just a monster. This is my favorite version of the Hulk that i've been exposed to, so I like his arc through the beginning of the season. It's also nice to see that each of the heroes has a faceted personality and that they don't automatically get along just because they're all "good". Things are moving a little slowly here, it's still just the five man team (or two men, a woman, an asgardian and a hulk, if you prefer) while Black Panther has made his way to New York, Cap is still frozen and Hawkeye is still on the run from SHIELD. But now they have a fancy new headquarters, so that's something. I do think it's funny that Thor and Hulk just plan on living there. It's just weird to think about either of them sleeping in beds anywhere. Wasp keeps making her shift towards being a super hero while Ant Man is dragging his feet.

The Avengers have their first run in with Enchantress and Executioner who will play a large part in the events this season, so at least it wasn't just a throw away villain for this episode. I will admit that the first time watching this episode I was wondering if most of the season would just be recapturing all of the escaped prisoners like a Marvel version of Jackie Chan Adventures. Glad to see they had bigger plans.

So while the pacing is a little slow at the start, it does help establish some characters instead of just throwing us in to the full line up.

Best moment: Thor's dialogue. I can't decide between him saying that Mandril has shamed all monkeys with his cowardice, or him just refering to JARVIS as "ethereal voice."

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This episode mirrors the Avengers' second recorded adventure. They get the mansion headquarters, meet Jarvis, and then some outside force turns the team against the Hulk and then against each other.

Here a lot of that happens too... Mansion is fancier, the pool is on the roof and the Quinjets launch from the subbasement. Jarvis is a disembodied voice, instead of a faithful butler. It leads to some good lines and funny moments, but I still miss the man.

Now in the 616, it's Immortus' servant the Space Phantom replacing Avengers for the expressed purpose of driving the Hulk of the team. Unfortunatly the Phantom overstepped his abilities and found himself sent back to Limbo when he tried to copy Thor's hammer. But the result was the same- the Hulk left his former allies and would face them many more times as an enemy than work with them again.

EMH takes another approach by reintroducing the Enchantress and her Executioner. Amora is her ever hedonistic self, a master of seduction and sorcery, an Asier by birth, but barely an Asgardian. The Executioner's given name is Skruge. Skurge is a half-giant, making him bigger and stronger than most other Asier. (the Asier is the race of god Odin, Thor, Frigga and Balder belong, being an Agardian means you are a citizen of Asgard city itself. This get confusing since the planetiod the live on, and the dimension the live in are aslo called Asgard, after the city.) But despite having strength that rivals Thor, Skurge's half-giant status leaves him the object of ridicule. He falls hard for the beautiful Amora, and is utterly devoted to her, despite the fact she put him squarely in the friend-zone.

So the Enchantress ensorcels Hulk into fighting the Avengers. But when all is said and done, and the enemies beaten, the end result is still the same, the Hulk leaves the team. Will he return in this reality? Fortunately we already know the answer.

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Guess who's 360 got fired? This guy. No EHM for me until I can fix it.

NOOOOOOOOO!! that sucks sorry to hear that. You shipping it back to MS? it's about a 4 week turnaround or it used to be.

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It's cool to know that this episode had some comic basis - and more than just "the team has trouble getting along". They were able to take the idea of someone turning Hulk against his teammates but also make it fit into their bigger picture for the show. Very cool. You can tell this series was made with a ton of love. As always, thanks Miry for filling us in on the 616.

As far as Wasp possibly being a mutant, I don't think they ever expressly say she is, but there are some strange is-she/isn't-she moments. In their micro episode, Hank says something about using their inventions, her abilities to fight crime. This could also just mean her stings, but it's weird that he changes it from "our" to "your".

And TM2, you NEED to get that fixed! We're rollin' on these episodes (especially now that the team is forming) and we need our third reviewer! And to anyone else keeping up with this thread, feel free to comment on things, even if it's been a while since you've seen the episode. Even things like "oh I loved how they developed Hulk" or "I hated Iron Man's voice actor". The more the merrier. :thumbsup:

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