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ReWatching The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes


nate_studio

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Haven't watched it again yet, but for the sake of the show and simplicity, I still say Jan's a mutant, ad Hank based his technology off of her. Also, if I recall, I like that Jan was the one person Ultron couldn't hurt. it was a very "Aww!" moment.

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Miry will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe hank gave jan some growth serum as an anniversery present, though it was later revealed that this was to turn her into the failsafe weapon for the skrull invasion and it led to her death

Skrull Hank gave her the bogus power boosting formula. It was suppossed to increase her powers... again. Since she used it to grow again not long erafter, my guess is that it was allegedly to stabalize her growing powers in the same way Hank had done to his own in recent years. Of course, it was a Skrull plot to turn Jan into a bomb.

So what needed stabalizing? It was shown that the original formual Pym created to achieve greater than normal sizes was imperfect. The most obvious drawback was it would occassionally trap a user, at that point Hank himself, at giant size, and there were limits on how large a Hank could grow, and for how long. What was not so obvious is that prolonged use of the formula cause mental instability, usually in the form of increasing irrational mood swings, and over emotional behavior. For a time it was just put down to Hank's own mental problems, but when Bill Foster also began show signs of irrational behavior, the pattern was clear. Both Eric "Goliath/Atlas" Josten and Wasp her self have also shown increasingly emotional irrational mental states when using Pym's original formula to grow in size. Clint is believed to have avoided the mental problems of his king sized comerades largely because of the mental decipline he developed mastering archery. Foster was the first to modify the formula to restore his own then lost powers, and it apparently removed whatever was causing the mental problems. Pym later reformulated his own growth serum based off Foster's work. Pym never gave it to Jan because for 90% of her career, Jan had not shown an interest at achieving greater than normal sizes. In fact the only time she tried growing with any regularity, she was more emotional, impulsive, and lacked the strength of character she had become known for. Realizing this herself, she stopped. (actually the cause was just bad writing by Chuck Austen, but I digress) So it was not as out of the blue as it seems for Hank to offer Jan a new serum.

Haven't watched it again yet, but for the sake of the show and simplicity, I still say Jan's a mutant, ad Hank based his technology off of her. Also, if I recall, I like that Jan was the one person Ultron couldn't hurt. it was a very "Aww!" moment.

Maybe... I'm gonna go with something closer to the comics origin.

Quick 616 history leason- at first Hank and Jan need to be exposed to shrinking and growing gas stored in their belts to change sizes, later switching to swallowing shrinking and growing pills. Hank was essentially taking several growth pills at a time to attain giant sizes. Eventually they needed only periodic injestion of an all purpose serum to allow them to change sizes at will for an unreaveld length of time, at least lasting a couple of days. I don't remember the being a "wasp serum" and a "giant-man/goliath serum", just a size changing serum. That tells me that Jan theorehtically could have been becoming "Giant-Woman" her whole career if she chose, she just never chose to. As time passed, both Jan and Hank's bodies become able to produce a Pym Particle reducing field on thier own, without fresh serum. Though Hank still needed it to grow to Goliath size. There was a mention of an improved size changing serum, designed for the effect to last longer, and that's what Clint used to become Goliath himself. Time passes, and Hank eventually learns all his powers have internalized, with the added bonus of being able to project Pym Particles by touch- shrinking and growing objects as well as himself.

There are currently a number of Pym growth formula variants about now. The Ant-Men, Lang and O'Grady, are still dependant on an external source of PymP's for their powers. Atlas is using a variant of the original growth serum, probably based on the one Clint used. Josten's ionic body combines with the PymP's so he retains the growing effects until the PymP's are forcibly purged from him. Wasp was given a uniquc variation on the original Pym formula decades ago. While most people using Pym's serum to shrink retain their full normal sized strength even at a fraction of an inch high, Jan's body uses the energies generated by the mass tranfers to grant herself superhuman strength and speed when shrinking, and her body stores the energy to fuel her bio-blast stingers. Bill Foster cracked all the problems with the original growing formula, acually becoming stronger and tougher as he grew, and adding other benefits like enhanced hearing and telepathic resistance, but he was still limited to a maximum 25 feet. Though Bill was known to have modified it again just before Civil War... apparently not enough to make him Clor proof. And then there's Hank himself. Based largely on Fosters improvements, Hank's current powers allow him to change size from 1/2" to 100' in height very quickly and with no apparent ill effects. He is stronger and more durable at certain sizes than he was earlier in his career, but any height above 40' more and more of his strength goes to supporting his own weight.

Whew... not meaning to drone on and on about Pym Particals.

Ultron can not hurt Jan yet because he has been programed to protect her no matter what. To get into why... well I will go there, but I wanted to hit other aspects of the episode before going all geekgasim about Ultron.

Let me catch my breath and we'll hit the Serpents first though.

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More 616 background on this episode, this time on the cannon fodder the team faced off against in the subway- the Serpent Society!

There have been several snake themed villains over the years, even a couple of teams of snake themed bad guys called the Serpent Squad. But at one point one of the more successful Squads decided to expand their roster and operations to become the Serpent Society, the Avengers of the Underworld! Well okay not really, just a well funded, decently organised, permenant team of snake themed mercenaries willing to sell thier services. And because their original leader Sidewinder was a teleport who avoided field action, they never need fear imprisonment if defeated because SW would just free them as soon as he could. It all worked great... until the original Sidewinder decided to retire. Without their backup man, the Society were just a bunch of c-grade snake guys to get whipped. But still they had a pretty good run during the Gru years on Cap. EMH features several SS vets:

King Cobra is one of SA 616's first snake themed bad guys. Injecting himself with an experimental snake venom cocktail, Klaus Vorhes gained super-snake powers, including a flexible, unbreakable skeleton, a constricting grip that even Thor struggles to break, improved reflexes, and the ability to slither like a snake using only fine muscle control. Yep, destined for greatness with that powerset. So he added some high tech snake themed weapons and headed off for a life of crime. Probably would have been more successful had he fought Spider-Man or Daredevil in their early careers, but no Klaus gets Thor. A few beatings later Cobra forms a long running partnership with Mr. Hyde... and the two of them get whipped by just about everybody at least once. Ol' Hyde abandons Cobra in prison, so Klaus accepts Sidewinder's offer to join the Serpent Society. When Sidewinder retires, Cobra changes his name to King Cobra and takes over as leader. TM2 will recognise the voice actor playing King Cobra on EMH, it's Scott McNeil pretty much reprising his roll as TM2's namesake for the part.

Assisting KC are Rattler, Annaconda, Death Adder, and Bushmaster. in the 616, the Rattler is much less... robust a character. He decided to steal Scorpion's "costume with built in robo-tail" idea, but added a sonic blasting "rattle" to it. But he gets points for being marginally smarter than Gargan- Rattler mostly stuck to committing crime in the American Southwest, where the odds of him fighting heroes are much more in his favor than NYC. He came east at Sidewinder's invitation and regretted it ever since.

The latter three got their powers from that former stple of Marvel origins- the Brand Corporation! During the 70's and 80's, Brand, a subsidiary of Roxxon Oil, was always doing some kind of experiment designed to give people superpowers. Hank McCoy worked there briefly and it was there using their chemicals he "enhanced" his mutation into the blue monkey-man we remember so fondly. Will-O-Wisp, Sunturion, the list of B and C grade folks empowered by Brand is pretty long. This includes the other three members of the Society you see in this episode. Death Adder, the green and purple fellow with a tail who fought mostly Hawkeye, was one of their early cybernetic/mutagenic efforts. Brand gave him the bionic tail, grafted in the claws, augemnted his strength, but the attempt to grant him amphibious abilities to breath in either air or water cost Adder his vocal cords. Death Adder kicked around the minor leagues until he was killed by the Scourge of the Underworld. By the time Annaconda was created by Brand years later, they had figured out how to do gill implants that did not cost the paitient their vocal chords. Annaconda is prett much what she appears to be, a super strong woman. Aside from her gills letting her breathe underwater, the only power she has that they didn't show is she can elongate her arms to a minor degree and constrict foes like her namesake.

I will be honest... I almost did not recognize Bushmaster. In EMH, Bushmaster looks like a giant snake with artificial arms. The 616 Bushmaster is a man with a bionic snakes tail instead of legs, and bionic arms with retractible blades. See Quincy was a klutz of a criminal, when his brother John tried to bring him into the big leagues with a Maggia hiest of a cruise ship, Quincy fell overboard and lost all his limbs in the propellors. John saved his life, but disowned Quincy after that. John went on to become known as Bushmaster, a recurring foe of Luke Cage in Cage's pre-Iron Fist solo days. John Busjmaster gets turned into a metal statue, so Quincy decides to voluteer for one of Brand's science experiments so he can become a super-criminal and make his brother proud. Calling himslef Bushmaster as well, he joins the Serpent Society and spends a long career getting his bionic arms ripped off. Amusing side note- John got his name "Bushmaster" from one of his "ladyfriends". Yeeeeah! Gotta love the 70's!!

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Lemme throw one more Mirypedia entry at you from this episode-

The Red Ghost and the Super Apes! This is another character like the Crimson Dynamo that loses some of his punch here in the post Cold War era. See Soviet scientist Ivan Kragoff worked in the Soviet's space program. He became obsessed with the circumstances that gave the Fantastic Four their powers while no manned space flight before or after reported similar mutations. In a unique convergence of events that only Stan Lee could come up with, an intense cosmic ray storm similar to the one that empowered the FF was about to occur at the same time the Central Committee was cutting Kragoff's funding, so Ivan convinces his superiors to let him take the experimental flight himself with a crew of highly trained apes. And Kragoff timed his flight and course to try and beat the FF's planned mission to investigate the "Blue Area of the Moon" which just so happened to be scheduled during the cosmic ray storm. Well of course Ivan and his apes all gain superpowers: Ivan gain the ability to become intangible and calls himself the Red Ghost. His three apes also get powers and there was evidence they gained greater intelligence as well, at least enough to completely under stand human language. The Gorilla Miklho gained super strength roughly equal to the Thing, Peotor the Orangutan has Magneto like magnetic powers, and the Baboon Igor gained shapeshiting power that allow him to transform into virtually anything roughly equal to his own mass. And this begins a long rivalry between the FF and their hairy Russian counter-parts. Ivan was also a loyal member of the Intelligencia, the Leader's group of 2nd teir evil geniuses that has been retconned into having existed for a long time and one of Marvel better recent ideas. (other members include MODOK, Egghead, Mad Thinker, and Wizard)

To be honest, I'm surprised more 616 governments or terrorist groups haven't tried shooting more people into cosmic ray storms on a regular basis. Or maybe they have and we only know about the two successful attempts to recreate the FF, the Red Ghost and the Super Apes on behave of the USSR, and the U-Foes, who were privately financed by the man now known as Vector. The U-Foes were seen back in Gamma World. They are Vector, who gained powerful TK abilities but can only repel things at various speeds, Vapor can change herself into any gas she can think of but cannot regain solid human form for more than a few seconds, Iron Clad's skin has transformed into a silvery metal, granting him super strength, resistance to damage, and limited density control, and finally X-Ray, who can fly and project any form of radiation but now exists only as a sentient energy being since his powers disintegrated his human body. Again, only 2 known successful empowering space flights. I don't know, seems weird.

I'll talk more about the actual episode tomorrow I swear.

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So, this question pulls a little away from the Avengers, but I'm wondering if you'll have the answer...

I've seen certain stories about the origins of the F4 where the powers they gained reflect their personalities - Reed is stretching himself in too many directions, Sue is ignored, Johnny is a hothead, and Ben is tough or whatever. Was that an original Stan Lee thing or was that a more recent explanation? It just seems weird either way. On the one hand, four people were exposed to the same cosmic rays and gained incredibly different abilities, but on the other hand, four people gained abilities based on expressions about their personalities.

I didn't realize two other sets of four gained powers in similar cosmic rays (each gaining a different ability) until just now, so it got me wondering.

I'm surprised you haven't just been going on about Ultron, though!

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Well first to answer your question- Stan's original intent is lost to the depths of time and Stan's bad memory. First I saw of the idea their powers were based on personality traits was in an issue of the original What If...? run were the FF all had different powers based on other traits of theirs. They also represent the four classic element of Earth, Fire, Air, and Water. But was Stan thinking that deeply when he first thought them up... who knows. The Thing ws originally more mishapen and almost reptilian/rhino hide than a rock monster, and that evolution was all Jack. It will be a question debated long after Stan's no longer around to badger.

I was waiting for this episode since "The Man in the Ant Hill" first showed us Ultrons serving as guards in the Big House. Heck, truth be told I've been waiting to see their version of Ultron since the series was announced. Yes, I am known as one of the loudest Kang requesters on this board. But Ultron has always been my favorite Avengers' foe. Probably has somehing to do with one of the first comics I remember having was an Avengers Giant Sized Treasury edition, you old guys know the ones that were the size of a large magazine, which featured among other reprinted issues, the Vision's first appearance. The cool skull-meets-Jack O Lantern head made a big impression.

Part of the fun of EMH has watching Ultron evolve from a simple automaton to a viable threat. When they used the Ultrons against Kang, you knew it was going to end badly and boy did it. Summoning menaces as a distraction, overriding the mansions systems, overriding the Iron Man armor... and that was just a warm up. Watching him tear through the team, apparently slaying Thor, knocking the others around effortlessly... fun stuff. Everything I wanted to see in an Ultron episode. And it was even Ultron 5! In the 616 Ultron 5 was the model Ultron had upgraded himself to when he finally decided he was ready to strike at the Avengers. It was Ultron 5 who assembeled the second Masters of Evil and later created the Vision. The disentegrater, the encephelo beam, all established Ultron weapons. Not to say there aren't major differences, EMH Ultron give the appearance of being very cold and logical, 616 Ultron tries to be cold, but is in truth wildly emotionally unstable and vengfully insane. Time will tell if EMH Ultron is as well. And of course Ultron is never easily beaten, even by a royally ticked off Hulk. As this episode shows, Ultron has the nasty habit of beaming his consciousness out of damaged bodies or worse using his encephelo beam to place hidden comands in his victim's mind to rebuild him if he is unable to save himself, the so called Ultron Imperative. (in the comics, every one of Ultron's "children", including Vision and Jocosta, are infected with the Ultron Imperative, as are Tony, Hank, and possibly even Reed Richards) There are major differences in the 616 and EMH origins too, but I'll get more into that next episode.

And next episode is by far my favorite to date for the whole series.

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we are on ultron-5 correct?

and while i wont spoil anything, i do want to say season 2 has already been incredibly awesome and knowing whats to come, its only going to get much more epic.

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S1:E23 - The Ultron Imperative

As the devastated team struggles with a loss, they don't realize that Ultron has transcended his body and infiltrated the world's computer systems.

Action. Packed.

This episode takes up where the last one left off and builds upon it perfectly. Pym and Stark are trying to destroy all that remains of Ultron, but it's too late. He has already spread out and taken control of ... well he's kind of like Skynet. He takes over everything, including SHIELD's computers. He even has a new body and a much deadlier plan.

While the team is dealing with the loss of Thor and Cap, and Ant-Man is beating himself up over how he got things so wrong, Ultron activates all of Iron Man's old armors to literally beat up the Avengers. It's always fun to see heroes pitted against each other, and we sort of get that here. How does Hawkeye stand up to Iron Man? How does Panther? Hulk vs Hulkbuster? Plus, it's even more fun to see the heroes get to fight robots and things that they don't have to hold back on. When the team realizes that the Iron Men are just a distraction, Hawkeye sends the majority to help SHIELD while he and Panther stay behind... then he immediately realizes he's an idiot.

Another thing I love about this episode is the juxtaposition between the intense action scenes and the peaceful scense with Thor and Amora. One second you're in the middle of battle, arrows, fists, claws and repulsor beams flying and the next second you're basking in the soft glow of sunlight shining through the trees where a dreamy Thor is trying to remember where he is and where he was.

We get our second big battle against Ultron and things have escalated. Both sides have suffered losses and the stakes couldn't be higher. Luckily, Thor gets Enchantress mad enough that she sends him back to Earth just in time to save the team. And he. Is. Angry. While the ...hmm... how do I put this... non-brilliant-scientist members of the team fight Ultron, it's really up to Iron Man to save the world and Ant-Man to stop Ultron. In the end, they save the day but there is still some larger looming threat. Plus, what are the odds that that's the last we see of Ultron?

As always, some amazing, fluid fight scenes, great characterization, and at least one opportunity to root for your favorite Avenger (well, except for Cap in this episode).

Favorite moment: Okay, there were some great one-liners mixed in this episode, but I'm going to have to award my favorite moment to Thor's return. Such raw power and fury.

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Oh... where to begin...

I'll stick to the episode itself for this post. Last episode we got a taste of how dangerous Ultron is, this time we get a whole meal's worth. And now we're dealing with Ultron-6, and upgraded Ultron and not just wih the Stark issue shoulder cannons. Ultron has prepared personal defences and abilities to deal with his foes, should his "distraction" at the mansion is not enough to delay them until his plan is unleashed.

And what a great distraction it is. Seeing the Mark II through VII done in a hybrid movie/comics style was a real treat. I found the Mark II particularly inspired- silver/grey like the movie Mark II, but with the horned helmet and general look of the comics Mark II (the first red and gold armor, for those with lives and haven't wasted brain space comitting Iron Man armor progression to memory.). Just for ID purposes you also had the Mark IV, considered Tony's "Classic" armor, the Mark VI or classic stealth armor, the "Silver Centurion" Mark VII, the un-numbered (at least for this series) Wonder Man-Buster exosuit (cause we first saw him try and use it against Simon), and the Mark VIII "Sandard" armor Tony's been wearing for most of the series. This fight alone would have made for a fun episode, but here it's just an opening round. There's more to do.

Ultron's assualt on SHIELD was just creepy in it's efficientcy. And Ultron's mind rape of Hill, and really what else would you call it, was disturbing. And maybe I'm reading too much of Ultron's comics counter-part into it, but I swear Ultron enjoyed inflicting that kind of intimate pain on her, like it amused him. Wave one of the Avenger's counter attack arives, and is quickly beaten. A furious Hulk ripped him open last time... but not this time. If this wasn't the last episode before the 3 part season ender, I would have liked to have seen it take some time for Banner/Hulk to overcome Ultron's anti-Gamma whammy. (And does it really matter exactly how it worked? It worked, darn it.)

Thor arrives for for two! And in a scene echoing Avengers v1 #162, an angry Thor wants words with Ultron. Sure Thor get some good licks in, but he's still losing. If not for the intervention of Ultron's creator, Thor too would not have beaten the untiring Evil Undying! Defeating Ultron by uploading a simple sentence into his processors echos back to the defeat of Ultron-6 in #68. Of course in this episode, Hank uses logic to defeat this more emotionless Ultron. In the comics, Ultron is overloaded with the simple phrase "Thou Shalt Not Kill", implying forcing Ultron to face the immorality of his murderous mission was enough to literally make his head implode. (hey I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to.)

And of course this isn't the last of Ultron, how many places did Ultron beam his consciousness to just this episode? One of them is undoubtedly somewhere he can see about his own reconstruction, and using the chemical formula he scanned from Cap's shield to make his new outer armor. (most 616 Ultrons from 6 on were constructed of pure, unbreakable Adamantium)

If I had any complaints with this episode, it was Cap's exclusion. I mean, yeah he got the crap kicked out of him last episode, but not that much more than Hawkeye or Panther. Yet he was hospitalized with his injuries, the other two were not. Not buying it, personally, but okay.

Favorite momment... force me to pick one and I'll go with "Yeah. I know. I'm dumb."

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first of all, the funny part...i decided to watch this episode today with no idea that we were on this one yet :P

well...it was funnay to me...ANYWAY

onto the episode, both you guys have pretty much said it all, but there are a few things i personally love, first of all ofcourse is the ironman onslaught, just so much epicness, i loved mechanics of the fight as well as seeing the evolution of his armors in the shows canon, though i do recal Jarvis telling Tony he only has 3 suits....did he mean up to date suits? :P

i loved the battle royale with Ultron, it was a great thought out fight like every on this show and had some great moments for each character, including the epic arrival of Thor.

favorite part....Ultron saying "This is not a warning, this is going to happen" (probably not the direct quote but it was along those lines)

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This episode, even though it's just a cartoon, shows some of the reasons I am so vehemently against nuclear weapons. The power to exterminate all life on earth should not exist.

My favorite moment was when Hawkeye's arrow just stopped, and they're all like "What?" and then the stealth armor de-cloaks, and you're like "What? Oh crap!" and hen the rest show up and you're just like "Yep, they're dead."

I also like how Thor kept smashing Ultron into pieces and he'd just rebuild himself. And Hank's solution was so simple it was amazing. I suspect Vision will show up because Ultron pattered him after his own mind, removing the human error. But Vision doesn't want to kill.

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So, I don't want to talk about other Marvel animations here, but I just rewatched the Ultimate Avengers movies last week (a bunch of Marvel toons were recently added to Netflix!) and then this episode over the weekend and couldn't help compare - what a huge difference between the two.

The one thing that really stuck out to me was the characterization. Big things like Pym being such a jerk for no reason in Ultimate and being a scientist/pacifist in EMH to little things like the way Cap dealt with being a man out of time. Also, in this episode of EMH, Hulk can't lift Thor's hammer because HE'S NOT THOR. In Ultimate Avengers, he can't lift Thor's hammer... until he tries harder. That really bugged me, so I was glad to see that they got that right in EMH (also got it right in Hulk vs, which I just rewatched tonight). I just love how EMH pays so much respect to the long history of 616 whereas Ultimate Avengers didn't even get the Ultimates right... or make any of the characters likeable, actually. The worst episode of EMH is still better than either of the Ultimate Avengers movies, IMO.

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Going to take a break from celebrating Kang’s announcement / taking up our new just cause and get back to discussing this episode… and by that I mean Ultron.

Ultron’s fate and that of his creator are inextricably linked. And we thought we knew why for years before it was confirmed in v.3 of the Avengers. You see in this episode Hank admits to Tony that Ultron’s programming contains a engrams mapped from Hank’s brain. In the 616, that admission was years in the making. It had long been suspected by fans, and bandied around in comics shops, conventions, and email lists before Kurt Busiek made it official cannon. But once that piece of the puzzle is laid bare, a whole lot of other things make more sense.

Let’s try and take this more chronological… in the 616, during the period of time Hank was first using his Goliath ID he fought Dragon Man and became fascinated by its artificial construction and simulated life. This leads him to becoming interested in Synthazoid technology, not a simple humanoid android but an artificial recreation of a living being in all it’s detail. The most famous and successful one of these ever made was the original Human Torch constructed by Dr. Horton in the 1940’s. Horton’s processes had been lost, so Hank was starting from scratch. Being the man who built a device that enables humans to mentally communicate with insect life, Hank started with the computerized brain. But Hank didn’t just want something that simulated human thought, but duplicated it. None of his early programming models worked, as the program kept falling into very linear logic. So Hank hit on the idea of using human brain engrams as the non linear element his A.I. operating system needs. Working alone at the time, Hank uses his own. Happy with his early tests, Goliath installs his creation in a very primitive robot body. I mean it was a cylinder, with a pair of eyes and a loudspeaker mouth on it. It had small tank treads for legs, a pair of pipe like arms, and a Robby-the-Robot looking dome on top I can only assume is the brain case Hank was intent on testing.

Before Hank can activate the unit for testing, the unit turns itself on. In a couple of minutes, the A.I. advances from infancy to intellectual adulthood, attacks and defeats Goliath. Using some kind of hypnosis ray, the robot forces Hank to forget how far he had gotten in the robot’s development and to abandon his home based lab where the robot had been made, which Hank promptly did. The primitive robot dubs itself Ultron 1 and busies itself upgrading it’s form four more times before it feels it’s ready to embark on it’s plan for revenge.

Why build a robot with a hypnosis ray, you might ask. Well it has been speculated that this was a weaponized version of what Hank had used to add his brain patterns to Ultron with. Ultron would continue to develop it into his encephalo ray, which can be used to control people’s minds at the lowest settings and place people in deathlike comas or even kill outright. A non variable coma ray version was given to the Grim Reaper at the beginning of the villain’s career and has been a part of his arsenal ever since.

But why does the revelation that Hank’s brain patterns are part of Ultron’s core programming make many elements of Hank and Ultron’s behavior more understandable. Well let’s start with Ultron. Many of Ultron’s obsessions are the same as Hank’s, though amplified and twisted by Ultron’s rapid mental development. Hank has a great degree of self-loathing, and an mix of camaraderie and jealousy of his teammates. Ultron hates Hank, desires to humiliate the Avengers by proving himself their superior before he kills them. Ultron’s hatred of Hank escalates from simply wanting to kill and defeat Hank, to wanting to kill everything that reminds him of Hank, i.e. all organic life on Earth. Hank loves Jan, Ultron is oddly obsessed with Jan, and wants to possess her in his own way, as a robot like himself. Thus Ultron would hurt his “father” and have his “mother” for a bride. I told you, 616 Ultron is insane.

I said Hank’s behavior also made more sense knowing how Ultron was built. Well that’s true too. You see investigating the Vision’s origins and how Ultron created Vision, Hank realized he in turn created Ultron. And almost immediately, Hank has the nervous breakdown so severe that he creates an alternate personality called Yellowjacket. And Yellowjacket believes he has killed Hank, as if Hank needed to be punished for something, forgotten and move beyond. Hank recovers his mind, but after two more battles with the increasingly violent Ultron, Hank suffers another breakdown in which he suppresses all of his memories after the first mission of the Avengers. Again, his mind was trying to erase the fact he created a monster. But even after he recovered from that breakdown, Hank admitted to no one the secret of Ultron’s creation. And burying all of his guilt lead to distraction at home, disinterest in Avenging, and failure of his lab work. All of which fueled Hank’s growing frustrations, which lead to his fourth and most famous breakdown where he struck Jan. But it was after Hank, Jan, and the rest of Ultron’s “family” were kidnapped by the Evil Undying and Hank was forced to watch Ultron kill every man, woman and child in Slorenia that he finally broke down weeping and admitted his dark secret to Jan. Just admitting this proved a breakthrough for Hank, as did Hank’s using Antarctic Vibranium to physically destroy Ultron’s newest body. Of course that wasn’t the end of Ultron, but that’s a tale for another time.

As I said, every Ultron from 6 to 17 had bodies armored with pure Adamantium, though the joints were protected by lesser metals by necessity of movement. It was Ultron-11 that participated in the Secret Wars and was reprogrammed by Doom to serve him. Ultron-12 moved past his predecessors insanity and wanted to be a true son to Hank, but “Mark” sacrificed himself in battle with the returned Ultron-11. Doom designed the ironically least effective Ultron, 13, who was beaten by Daredevil, Karnak and Gorgon. Ultron-13 rebuilt itself later and purged the faulty Doom programming. Since then Ultron has been living Extremis metal and then a member of the technorganic Phalanx. It will be interesting to see what form he takes next.

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Pretty sure they've got some medication that can help, Dino.

Although, I have no problem with the idea of trying to wrap up this first season this week, since we're 5 eps behind season 2 in already. (and there's a lot to talk about there too.)

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Pretty sure they've got some medication that can help, Dino.

Although, I have no problem with the idea of trying to wrap up this first season this week, since we're 5 eps behind season 2 in already. (and there's a lot to talk about there too.)

i vote we watch the final 3 episodes as a whole since the finale is a 3-parter. Anyone opposed to this?

also, season 2 just keeps getting better and better ;)

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3 in one sounds good to me. I've been waiting until I finished season 1 to start season 2. I don't have Disney XD or whatever channel, so I'll have to watch them online anyway, so I'm not worried about catching them when they air. But I am curious where S2 is going.

S1:E24 - This Hostage Earth

The end begins! As Thor and Iron Man work to find a way for Thor to return to Asgard, the Enchantress makes her move.

Favorite moments: Wasp "Anyone wanna switch spots?"

or Hawkeye "There's an elf here giving me a dirty look..."

S1:E25 - The Fall of Asgard

Lost and separated, the Avengers struggle to tsurvive in the nine realms of Asgard.

Favorite moments: Iron Man "I'm Iron Man" after blasting Ulik in the face.

Hulk "HULK. STRONGEST. THERE. IS!"

Hawkeye "I do okay"

Cap "We're in for a long night"

S1:E26 - A Day Unlike Any Other

Eight reamls have fallen and only Midgard remains. The Avengers are nothing against his power. Loki has won. Every moment has led to this.

Favorite moment: Hawkeye "When in doubt - blow it up"

-

Although we've gone off on many different tangents, the core arc of this season has been Loki's master plan. With three episodes left, we get to see it in full swing.

So the Avengers are trying to get Thor back to Asgard. Tony thinks he's come up with a brilliant innovation when Cap tells him it's been done, like, 60 years ago. As Cap explains his flashback, Enchantress is spreading Norn stones all around the globe. The Avengers decide to investigate because Enchantresses plan seems to deal an awful lot with what they were talking about anyway. The team splits up sending one member to each location. Bad idea, guys.

The heroes get pitted in some really odd match ups, which are kind of fun. Rather than seeing Hulk fight Abomination again, we get to see Wasp fight Abomination. It was interesting to see heroes against villains who don't really reflect their skill sets or personal backstories. This, however, leads to a few issues and our heroes really don't seem to be doing their best. When things start to look really bad, Thor offers the simple suggestion - break the stone! Instead of just ending the magics going on, though, when each Avenger breaks their stone they get transported to one of the other nine realms.

Thor is put in chains while the other Avengers are hunted down by his evil forces. This is also where Loki tries to take credit for everything the Avengers went through this season. I'm not sure he had a hand in everything, but he was the main driving force. Here in these new realms, the heroes get some more fitting match ups - Hulk vs trolls, Giant Man vs Giants, Cap in the land of the dead, Hawkeye with some archers, Thor with Loki and Iron Man with dwarves. Oh and Black Panther was shown briefly with some kind of demon spirit things... I dunno. Most of these are obvious, but some of the cooler ones are Cap facing the ghosts of his past (where's Bucky?) and Iron Man building an uru suit with the dwarves. We get some really great moments from most of the team interacting with their strange new environments. Oh and look who's there! The Warriors Three and Lady Sif!

So then, some undisclosed amount of time passes (long enough for Iron Man to make a suit of armor, but short enough for Wasp not to freeze) and things are looking pretty bad. Sure, they're adapting, getting some new armor and weapons and have (mostly) reassembled, but they still have to face Loki with Odin's power. Of course, since they're the Avengers, they face the problem head on and rush in to battle. When Cap gets back from Hel- wait, what did they call it for the kids show?- he's all business. Giving orders and taking charge. Still, they're no match for Loki's odin-force. Even when fully reassembled, they can put up a fight but can't win. Luckily, someone comes along who can match the odin-force... ODIN. Things wrap up pretty nicely once the big guy wakes up and Loki is sent away again (to have snake venom dripped in his eyes or something).

It was really cool to see each Avenger on thier own both on Earth and in the eight other realms, to see them adapt and then rejoin. I enjoyed the Asgardian arc, but wish Thor played a bigger part in the last two episodes instead of just being chained up. Still, these three episodes were filled with great animation, incredible action and ...well tying up loose ends. It was also nice to see the closing of the story arc and a tease of the new one. Season one was fantastic, but now I'm just so excited for S2!

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ok i cant post my full thoughts right now, but my favorite part in the entire 3 parter is when hawkeye says

"ive a got an elf here giving me a dirty look"

also the newest episode of season 2 is my all time favorite, they really went all out on great characters in it :D

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Okay, let's hit it.

S1:E24 - This Hostage Earth

Points I liked. Cap's flash back. Its been a looooong while since we've seen that episode, so a refresher is good. That and I am a huge sucker for 1940s Nazi technology/Norse legends. I swear if there were an entire series based solely on that (like BPRD, but more so) I'd be all over it.

The fact that Hank actually left. He had the power to follow through with his convictions. But he was too much of a coward to leave Jan on her own. I so hopw they follow through with this in season 2. The man left the team. You can't just have him come back and not mention it.

Wasp's winter costume. The fur was so cute! And so sensible. And she took down Abomination. Kind of. In a scene with amazing voice acting with her "Ow!" when she gets crushed.

Followed by some amazing animation of the Hulk actually biting his lip. The details on this show again astound me.

BP was fighting the ghosts of the Dark Elves in Svartalfheim, where Algrim is from. Also Maliketh from a few episodes earlier. They are his people, whom he killed. If you've seen the astoundingly good Thor: Tales of Asgard, they're on the dead world in that movie.

I liked that through it all, Zemo had it all planed out. He knew the Avengers better than they knew themselves, but the same goes for the MoE. Zemo wasn't about to be fooled by Amora and her tricks.

Also, is Catilla dead? And the Bray Gargoyle? Or what? Cause that was an awesome sequence.

The ending was to die for.

S1:E25 - The Fall of Asgard

Okay, let's get this out of the way. Loki was going to execute Thor. LOKI WAS GOING TO EXECUTE THOR! I'm just astounded by that. But aside from that, the way Loki took over was brilliant. People, even gods, are creatures of habit. Whjen odin simply did not awake, they turned to the only leader they had available: Loki. So tricky.

Mithelheim, more commonly known as Helheim in more PG circles. I felt that the sequences were a bit long. Yes, Cap in in the land of the dead. we get it. And really, it didn't take that long, but when you have 66 minutes to pack in as much action as possible, and self-reflecting break is too valuable to waste. Helena was creepy as... Hel (:P) and Freyja was a nice touch. I do have to wonder at the danger for Cap though. Helena said if he falls in this battle. So why does he see her reflection at the end? And where was he planning on spending eternity anyways? Helena just said she could create a paradise for him.

Again, I know I've harped on this before, but Hulk Vs was a great movie wth an astounding over view that laid the groundwork for this episode.

I know they're classically drawn, but the Warriors 3 take their cue from classic Kirby style, as does Hulk Vs, rather than Tales of Asgard, in which they are molded after their Thor Movie counterparts. I have to say I prefer the realistic style choice rather than the Kirby style. Now that the movies are all out, I suspect Asgard will get some sort of minor/major overhaul to better blend the two elements. And indeed you can already begin to see that blending seep in, with the buildings looking different than they did in the first few episodes, like that did in Hulk Vs. I just think that with Thor's overhaul, the Warriors Three may get an upgrade as well.

For a pacifist, Hank sure loves wailing on those Giants.

I love the look Hulk gets when he figures out how to use the ax.

S1:E26 - A Day Unlike Any Other

Obviously a reference to the Avengers movie teaser trailer.

Costume changes all around! Wasp in in her retro original costume! Hank foreshadows his Yellow Jacket digs. Both very cool touches.

Cap again steps up and commands the team.

The intro sequence was brilliantly done. it was the IM1 forge scene. They like "Everyone has seen the movies. They know thee origins. We don't need to do them again. But what if we have Iron Man make a set of armor from scratch, and we just copy the movie scene for seen. Brilliant!" I'm serious, first time I saw that I almost squealed. It was so well done and very clever. I just can't get enough of it. And then Tony has the audacity to make the Thor-Buster armor! OMG! Brilliant!

Cap having his shield broken. Now we see what Ultron could see. Microscopic flaws in the shield. Something so intractable ended up not being so after all. Such a devastating loss.

And Hank pulling Yggdrasil out of the ground was rushed, I'm sure, but it was part of the rebirth mythology. Yggdrasil was corrupted, but a new, fresh one was waiting just below to take it's place. Wakes up Odin. Bada-bing, Bada-boom. The 9 realms are save, Ragnarok is stopped.

---

Over all, a ball busting season finale. There are still loose ends to clean up, but I'm so glad we have season 2 ahead of us. Does anyone know a good place to watch it? I'll even take a seedy dive on the far side of the internet at this point. Not that I advocate that sort of thing.

Edited by TM2 Dinobot
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I am feeling a little stoned from my migraine medicine. This might get interesting.

Karnillia is likely not dead, she's among the most powerful wizards in the Asgardian plane. Grey Gargoyle... well they don't call him the Executioner for nothing.

I'm not sure if Hank's initial not leaving his curiosity getting the best of him, he wanted to see what the alert was about... then couldn't let Jan go alone.

Always love the Living Laser. And Hawkeye not remembering Chemistro was absolutely classic. I will try to do write ups on them tomorrow.

And apparently those intro episode were even more important than we knew, as we're back in the Skull's lab again. For a crowded episode, a little more acknowledgment of this being the mission Bucky died would have been cool.

After that' it's the little details in Asgard I loved. Like Hank and Jan's battle armor. Jan's helmet resembeled her first 616 costume. Hank also briefly wore a helmet like the one he has on this episode as Giant-Man. But his chest plate... that mo' pure Yellowjacket.

Be interesting to see the long term effects of Cap's deal with Hela.

But Cap leading the Avengers, not just yelling "Go get 'em guys!" like Iron Man is prone to, but actually leading them as a team into battle was probably one of my favorite overall moments.

Before you ask, Loki broke Cap's shield using the Odin-force, the power he was draining off the World Tree. Not a feat he of Thor would have normally been able to accomplish.

I wonder, considering how long ago this had to be produced, if the EMH design guys knew that the 616 was designing a very similar looking Iron Man armor for Fear Itself? The EMH "Thorbuster". Badly named actually, since in EMH it's built to free Thor, and in the 616, the first version was originally made to combat Asgardian monsters and threats that the Avengers invariably face from time to time. But since Tony ended up using it first against Thor himself, the name stuck.

Good guys win, bad guys lose, and it just sucks to be Loki when all is said and done.

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And now two "Mirypedia" profiles for a pair of villains who prove that just having a genius IQ does not make you less of an idiot: the Living Laser and Chemistro!

616 Arthur Parks was a research scientist struggling with one of life's harsh truths: douchebags with money get more hot chicks than regular joes. But Parks was not so regular, see he makes a breakthrough in laser technology, specifically in compact power supplies, that allows him to create lasers powerful enough to slice through most known substances, yet small enough to mount on a man's wrist. GENIUS! So does Parks take this idea and sell it to the military and private industry and live like a king for life? No! This idiot gets a tacky costume and robs a bank as the Living Laser. Then like Dinobot he develops a serious crush on the Wasp and kidnaps her, (okay I don't think Dino is morally capable of kidnapping though) guaranteeing the Avengers will come beat him up. Arthur upgrades his weaponry a few times for his ill-conceived rematches, even coming up with some bionic implants that allow him to project lasers from his body. While this seemed like a good idea at the time, they eventually malfunction and start generating more power than he could release normally, and when Iron Man disrupts Parks' plan to use the excess power to help the Soviet Block rule the world, Arthur Parks' body explodes. But that didn't keep our boy down long. No sir, the Living Laser now exists as a sentient quantity of photon energy, a literal living light being. Now much more powerful than ever before, Arthur's sanity has certainly taken a hit, and he's rendered his original goal of getting money to get hot chicks moot. (Side note: it's been speculated that Arthur Parks' body may still exist and that like Monica Rambeau, he has exchanged his physical form with a quantity of light energy from an energy dimension and that the damage to his sanity has thus far prevented him from figuring out how to change back. This speculations stems from the similarity between Parks' and Rambeau's powers.)

616 Curtis Carr is just as bright. See Dr. Carr developed something that if perfected would be far more useful than even miniature laser technology: a non lethal radioactive compound that when energized can alter matter into any form the a human in contact with it desires. A literal scientifically created Philosopher's Stone. Further testing revealed a chemical compound that could be externally applied to things that rendered them immune to the radiation, and the main drawback to his discovery- anything changed by the stone would crumble to dust in about an hour after exposure. Curtis creates a handgun to focus the stone's rays, specially treated to be immune to them itself, which he aptly calls his "alchemy gun". While not perfect, this was a huge discovery that if he'd chosen to share and collaborate with other on could have made Carr a very wealthy man. So of course, Curtis gets some spandex and turns to crime instead as Chemistro. After getting beat up by Luke Cage and Iron Fist a lot, Curtis Carr's criminal career comes to an end when he shoots himself in the foot... literally... which turn into glass and shatters under his weight. Nothing like searing pain and humiliation to make a man repent his evil ways. Upon release from prison, the good Doctor dedicates himself to perfecting his "Alchemy Stone" radiation to allow more stable transformations for the good of mankind, and Tony Stark hires him as head of R&D at Stark Enterprises. But Curtis's younger brother Calvin is a more dedicated criminal, and has stolen his brother's original alchemy gun to continue operating as Chemistro. The Tinkerer modified the handgun into a pair of wrist blasters, but those were destroyed fighting Iron Man. Calvin is proving a moderately more successful criminal than Curtis, if only because Calvin still has all his extremities. To make life confusing for everyone, Calvin will sometimes claim to be Curtis. (though why you'd want people to think you're the idiot that blew off his own foot I don't know)

Edited by Mirymate
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