NerdyTrev Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 In the past three years, I think that Marvel had really screwed itself over. First, they revamp their entire line to appeal to new readers as Marvel NOW! Then they decide that maybe some heroes should be villains should be heroes and heroes should be villains in Axis. And to put icing on the cake, the 616 universe doesn't even exist anymore. Thanks to the third installment of Marvel trying to get action figures distributed, oh I'm sorry, Secret Wars. Despite all of their, the thing I'm most angry about is the fact that Marvel has been switching their continuity to be more in line with the MCU which I think is idiotic. It's a different universe for a reason! Comic book movies aren't supposed to be shot-for-shot copies of the stories they stem from, they change a few things so the average movie goer can comprehend their complex themes without having to read years worth of backstory to a character. I don't know, maybe I'm just pointlessly ranting. I just miss the days when a new issue came out, you would get excited to what the next step in a character's development, not worrying about how much more your favorite heroes will get altered for the benefit of the company. I honestly feel that the age of Marvel ended when Age of Ultron did in 2013. I hope that you all can understand my rage and either agree or respectively disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 "Marvel has been switching their continuity to be more in line with the MCU which i think is idiotic" 1. Its not idiotic to tailor your merchandise to the literally millions of new fans who have just found your content and have only ever seen the MCU. Its incredibly smart and has proven successful. 2. retcons are not new. retcons have existed from the beginning of comics and will continue till the end of time. retcons exist because you have hundreds of writers working on the same character over decades so eventually someone needs to veto someone else, it keeps things from becoming an outdated mess. 3. Oh no they're using the name Secret Wars as a marketing ploy! ....so? the name has value AND also happens to fit thematically. To say that Jonathan Hickman has spent upwards of 5 years building up to secret wars just to market action figures means that you must think that of any comic book run so im not sure I understand your argument? 4. The 616 is a number, there will still be a central continuity, maybe its not named the same thing but it will still flow from the prior continuity, it will also introduce a lot of new characters from the now collided alternate earths. 5. Im not sure what comics you are picking up weekly but I still get excited when I open an issue and read a fantastic story. Change is not bad. the new Thor is a fantastic book, Superior Spiderman, Ms Marvel, Spidergwen, Silk, Moon Knight, All-New Ghostrider, Elektra, SpiderWoman, Silver Surfer, Antman, New Avengers. These are all fantastic series that offer new perspectives and stories and shouldnt be subjected to criticism just because you dont like that Marvel makes money from them. 6. Comics are meant to be for everyone, and the beauty of it is Marvel is only one company. If you dont like what they're publishing, speak with your wallet, dont buy it, read DC, check out some awesome Image Comics, look at the cool stuff IDW or Boom is producing, look into webcomics, there are some really great ones. 6. Lastly. Dont knock it till you read it. most important piece of advice, dont form opinions from website one-liners, form them after reading the book, otherwise you may be tricking yourself out of a great experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostisfire Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 1) What's so wrong with having jumping on points every now and then? Do you expect someone who just saw the movie to jump into Avengers 473 in the middle of a story where the time-traveller Kang, who's also 4 people but also 1 at the same time, is re-writting history to trap a Celestial and use his power to ascend into a more divine state of being? Jumping on points are needed. A lot. 2) Yeah, I mean, Hickman's been bulding up to this since his FF, F4 and Shield days, but I'm sure this is just a marketing ploy to sell more figures. Damn son, are you Sherlock or something? 3) God forbid characters evolve and change their personalities due to decades of history. Parker should still be in High School dammit! 4) Retcons are one of the most essential parts of comics. In his first appearance Moon Knight was a hired gun, but in his solo he got a whole new origin. You can't expect a character to keep on going for years upon years, upon years with no changes to his back-story. 5) Let's see: Marvel's putting out an Ant-Man book and the Inhumans and GotG are getting a bigger push. How is that a bad thing? You know, I never got this logic."Something is popular and lots of people who aren't hardcore comic fans like it, so I, as a longtime comic reader must express my superiority by hating it!" It makes no sense, and frankly, is just an excuse for people to feel better about themselves. Literally nothing has changed in the MU due to the movies. 6) I know right? Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, Avengers/New Avengers, Superior Iron Man, Guardians 3000, all terrible books with nothing new to offer! Also, if you don't like what Marvel's doing, you can just, ya know, read something else. This mentality that Marvel owes you, me, anyone, something is misguided at best. Marvel publishes a number of books. You like one, two, thirty? Cool, buy it/them. You don't like anything? Move along. There are far more important things in life. Study, go out, hell make your own comics if you feel nobody is doing it right. I think "raging" on the 'net is one of the most wasteful things that anyone can do. Honestly, I see this type of "rants" every damn day on almost every comic site and quite frankly, it's gotten tiresome. If you grew up with these characters from their inception then I could understand the frustration, but now? By the time you started reading hundreds of retcons had happened and what you now perceive as "the original personalities", were, to other guys, a bunch of unwanted changes to their favourite characters. All in all, this is just a copy/paste of things that have been on the web ever since the MCU became a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexion_Armando Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Marvel Now! was the best re-branding I've seen in a while, in comparison to the New 52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If someone is a Marvel fan who is dissatisfied and you tell them to just go read something else, that's not exactly helpful. How much has shifting continuity and/or costumes to more closely resemble the movies actually helped? That's the kind of thing people assert all the time, but no one ever has any data to back it up. Telling someone to go pay money to read a comic they don't think they'll like is stupid. It's the creators job to sell us comics, not our job to keep shelling out cash to give them a tryout. It's pretty easy to get a very accurate idea of how you'll feel about a comic book with a little internet research. Saying otherwise is just looking for a way to dismiss criticism you don't want to hear. If Secret Wars actually does do away the 616 then I may very well be done with Marvel, at least in any significant capacity. And maybe Marvel minimates too the way character selection has worked lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) If they arent interested in what Marvel is producing than perhaps they no longer wish to be a Marvel fan? There is over 70 years of published collected comics if they wish to keep reading the same stuff over and over. Above Kostis referenced Marvel using the films to showcase characters like Guardians, Inhumans, and Antman, lesser known characters that have never gotten the spotlight before, their popularity has made it so these awesome characters can carry their own series or even multiple of their own series, it gives them a chance to be taken on by writers who before now would have been turned down by Marvel. A Nick Spencer Scott Lang series could never exist before this film happened. Not to mention some of the ideas in the films are GOOD, The Guardians film costumes fit their personalities exceedingly well. Ales Kot has done fantastic things with the new Nick Fury Jr and its awesome to see Coulson fanboying around in the new Shield series. Just because something has been the same way for decades doesnt mean it should be. Im not going to include Hawkeyes new costume because its actually not inspired by the film, seeing as the film was inspired by his ultimate costume, id say the comics look was just created to fit Fractions more down to earth tone which has made for a truly fantastic Hawkeye run. If you are going into a comic book store weekly then you can flip through the comics before buying them, Marvel has also done a pretty good job of providing previews of almost every comic they release every week so by the time you buy it there are multiple ways to know what you are getting. Edited March 16, 2015 by undeadpool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexion_Armando Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Fraction? Fantastic? Is this hell? Did I die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I smell Disney synergy at work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobsterman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 ^^^ This. I'm honestly waiting for the post-Secret Wars announcement that the Star Wars and Marvel universes are now the same universe. Darth Vader vs Doom, y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanester Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't like all the new crap. If others like it and it sells, then I am likely out of Marvel. I grew up reading the original stuff and thats not only all I know, but all I care about. The Ultimate universe was the beginning of my distaste for "alternate" universes. DC nearly imploded on itself because of all the alternate universe crap. Again, if people like it and it sells, good for them. They alienated the fans that made them great and we will move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSTZach Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Not sure how much you can DIRECTLY attribute to movie costumes/continuity, but Marvel comics are doing very well, although you're comparing them to a company that underwent a massive reboot not too long ago, and one that now gives almost equal attention to their alternate realities. ICV2 breaks down February here: http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/31080/idw-has-1-comic-february Comic sales are up 20%, Marvel has a larger market share than DC (38% vs. 26%), and while they control the top 10, it's with Star Wars and Spider-Man books, which aren't affected by any new movie continuity -- although Spider-Gwen and Silk are both brand-new characters/heroes. Also, the #1 book is based on a TV show (thanks to a Loot Crate spike, but it's all related). So new characters, media-based books, Batman, Spider-Man and the Justice League. Top 10 Comics—February 2015 Orphan Black #1 Darth Vader #1 Spider-Gwen #1 Star Wars #2 Batman #39 Amazing Spider-Man #14 Darth Vader #2 Amazing Spider-Man #15 Silk #1 Justice League #39 Note that new trades are mostly based on new stories coming out of Image, not old superheroes, and even that Superman book is an alternate reality (I think?). The lone Marvel book is a vastly different take on the character. Also, The Walking Dead, which has a nice little TV show. So new stories, new characters, new takes on classic characters and stuff based on T shows. Top 10 Graphic Novels—February 2015 Superman: Earth One Vol. 3 Sex Criminals Vol. 2: Two Worlds One Cop The Fade-Out Vol. 1 Saga Vol. 4 Chew Vol. 9: Chicken Tenders Trees Vol. 1 The Walking Dead Vol. 11 Ms. Marvel Vol. 1: No Normal Saga Vol. 1 Kick-Ass 3 February 2015 Comic Store Market Share38.44% Marvel Comics25.91% DC Comics10.51% Image Comics 5.57% IDW Publishing 3.48% Dark Horse Comics 2.63% Dynamite Entertainment 2.12% BOOM! Studios 0.95% Eaglemoss Publications 0.89% VIZ Media 0.85% Avatar Press Granted, these are all sales to retailers, not customers. Edited March 16, 2015 by DSTZach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NerdyTrev Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I don't like all the new crap. If others like it and it sells, then I am likely out of Marvel. I grew up reading the original stuff and thats not only all I know, but all I care about. The Ultimate universe was the beginning of my distaste for "alternate" universes. DC nearly imploded on itself because of all the alternate universe crap. Again, if people like it and it sells, good for them. They alienated the fans that made them great and we will move on. This is all I was trying to get across. The old stuff was easy to follow and made the Marvel universe a community. Now with all of the new reboots and relaunches of character, teams, and new visions of old stories, I find it unecesary. That is all I wanted to say, I understand I did it in ways that upset people, but I stick to my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I came back to comics purely by chance when I was loaned some 'new' Captain America comics ..... the Brubaker run . Lucky lucky me because after 25 years in the comic wilderness I hit gold immediately ..... I'm no connoisseur but that was one hell of a run . That's nearly 10 years ago... now I trudge through the latest Cap comics .................. 'trudging' however is better than being completely bogged down & baffled by the various Avengers titles . Too many characters saying too much & doing very little else . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 What first jumps out at me looking at the numbers for single issues that Zach posted is that there are a lot of #1 issues, which I guess explains why Marvel is relaunching titles all the time. I'd be shocked if both Silk and Spider-Gwen can maintain spots in the top ten. BHM, I think you pointed out a great example of a "new" comic that worked really well for both fans of more classic stories and newer fans. Sure, there was some controversy when it first came out but if I remember correctly the book quickly won over practically everyone. If Marvel could more consistently manage that mix of new ideas, character progression, and respect for continuity even while making major changes I think those of us currently dissatisfied with Marvel would be a lot happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I think at the end of the day I just want people to be open to new stories in comics that they have not read before, to experience new perspectives because thats the beauty of comics, its such a versatile medium and Marvel has obviously embraced that. Also VIVA LA SPIDERGWEN (and Silk is an awesome book too) I spend maybe over 50 dollars a week on comics every week (have been for the last 2 years) so whatever they're doing. its working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny B Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 ^^^ This. I'm honestly waiting for the post-Secret Wars announcement that the Star Wars and Marvel universes are now the same universe. Darth Vader vs Doom, y'all! I've been wondering the same thing for a while, ever since Vin Diesel was interviewed about his potential future with Marvel. He was only officially talking about voicing Groot, but mentioned that Marvel Studios were grooming him for a big role several years down the line. He referred to it as a "merging of brands". The first thing that popped into my mind was that brand 1 is Marvel, and brand 2 is Star Wars. I've been keeps my my eyes open on the net for anyone else talking about that connection, but it doesn't seem to be a solid idea to most people. Perhaps I'm making a huge and illogical jump. But I do think it makes sense, especially now with Marvel having branched out into space based stories. I would be very curious to see if the Inhumans movie creates some sort of bridge with a galaxy far far away (not necessarily excited, but still curious) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBMM1 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'm pretty sure Vin was talking about playing Black Bolt. He teased that possibility several times after dropping that tidbit. I don't think they're ever going to cross Marvel and Star Wars. Maybe in a (non-canon) one-shot or miniseries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny B Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Yep, it's almost a certainty that he was referring to playing Blackbolt (hence my statement about being curious if the Inhumans movie will be the bridge to a galaxy far far away). I can see it being unlikely that the movies will merge the MCU with Star Wars, but there is still something of a president for it, with Marvel Studios successfully pushing their 'brand' into outer space at the same time that Disney's newly acquired Star Wars 'brand' began producing a new trilogy and numerous spinoffs. There *could* be connectability if Disney so chooses. That being said, the only reason I'm even thinking about it is because of the "merging of brands" comment. Personally, I see Marvel as its own brand. I don't think of it like the 'Avengers brand' and the 'GOTG brand' all under the 'Marvel brand', especially since the Inhumans movie is taking place after the Avengers engage in the Infinity War. It seems that Marvel's sub 'brands' would already be merged at that point... But yeah, I'll say again that I'm probably making a huge leap with that theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJohnson Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Brand 1: Marvel Brand 2: Vin Diesel Although I'm sure Vin would put himself as Brand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiniMage Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Marvel has had the difficult task of both catering to the old fans and attracting new fans for years. After their success with the movies, I think they realized they couldn't do both well enough so they decided to focus on just one audience: the new fans. Marvel is innovating and constantly writing up new #1's and it's working for them. I'm a little concerned about this Secret Wars business...the merging of the 616 and the Ultimates universes sounds like a more confusing Marvel equivalent of the New 52. I don't see why they'd find that concept appealing and why they'd try to mimic it. I don't think this event is going to wipe out the entirety of Marvel Comics' history so how this will be considered "a fresh start" is beyond me. We'll see what this all comes down to on May 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttheadsmate Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I wasn't sure where to put this http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/25/feminist-superheroes-she-hulk-ms-marvel-thor ....... it seems like the gals are taking over ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Collector Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Thanks for sharing that Rob. Enjoyed that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'm just happy to live in the past, reading comics from 30-60 years ago for the most part. I'll pick up whatever Alan Davis is working on, anything Alan Moore might do, and an interesting looking indie title now and again, but I don't care for the general approach Marvel and DC have taken for the last decade plus, minus some compelling work here or there like Brubaker's great Cap run that Rob refers to. I loved Crisis on Infinite Earths, but the constant revamping and rebooting is just too much for me. I don't have the time or inclination to attempt to keep up. But I realize I'm a relic of the past, when things were a bit simpler and more straight-forward, and the companies weren't trying to respond to the same set of needs and audiences that they encounter today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 If you like Bru's Cap, may I recommend Waid's Daredevil, Bendis's Moon Knight, and Rucka's Punisher? I'd argue all three are equally "definitive" runs for the characters. And the Fraction Iron Fist book was amazeballs, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I might check some of those out! Though I should add, I don't consider Brubaker's run definitive. That honor goes to Dematteis and Zeck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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