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I need to vent


TM2 Dinobot

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I'm 24. I'm well aware of the fact that when I wake up every morning I am a few days closer to a quarter of a century. And I have nothing to show for it. No job, no car, no degree, no ambition. I live with their parents, and while I don't want to live here forever, I am happy. Food, shelter, people that love me. What's so great about independence? (There's a book about that in the works too.)

I've written 1 adult novel @ about 200K words, and 4 young adult fantasy novels @ about 52,000 words. (3 of which I wrote last year) I've written a few magazine articles (which didn't pay) and some screenplays, which are currently being considered. I am taking a break at the moment to concentrate on school and publishing.

A few weeks ago I went to a reading by an author that shall remain unnamed. He was new, first novel out, and he shared his 'miraculous' story of how he got published right out of the gate. If anything he was ungrateful, because he was trying to sell a book of short stories, and no one wanted it. So he shipped around a novel, and one house wanted it, but not the short stories. he had to make them take that one as well. Oh how terrible, he published 2 books, but only cared about one. That poor author and that awful publishing house.

Afterwards there was a small workshop. He covered basic writing (which I already know) and as far as publishing went, summed up the following points. 1) You never get published right out of the gate. (never mind that he did) It takes at least 2-5 years. 2) You need to have written at least one million words before you even think of submitting. 3) No one gets published before they are at least 35-45. That's the youngest authors ever get. 4) You don't make any money at all. (this is true) 5) Publishing houses aren't interested in first time authors, so get published before you submit. (WTH?)

Obviously becoming frustrated, I asked "If that's all true, at what point do you give up?" Haughtily he replied "Oh, you NEVER give up. If you give up you're not really a writer. You shouldn't be doing this for money, but for the love of art itself."

...

Let's let that soak in for a moment. It doesn't pay. It can't be done. I'm too young. I need to get published before I can get published. 5 novels aren't enough.

I don't need this. I have the stories in my head. I could go the rest of my life without writing another word if I had to. I love writing. I'm good at writing. It is the ONLY thing I can see as a career path, because I lack any other form of ambition. I need this to PAY. I need this to be a career, that I can support a family on. If I can't do that NOW, not in another 15 years but right this moment, I'm going to go work some place for 40 years in a job I hate and be miserable like the rest of America. I've already been told that when school is over I have to stop what I'm doing and "get a real job" because things are too tight right now. I am working part time FYI and going to school full time. My parents just need help with the bills.

I am understandably frustrated. I will admit my lack of organization is a downfall, but I am bamboozled. I have material. I know that blindly submitting doesn't usually work. I have $0 for anything else. I'm not a huge fan of an agent because I see that as taking money that I will desperately need to live on. I don't want to be famous, I just want to live. While I am capable of it, the idea of freelance writing frazzles me. Having a different article each week that will pay the bills for that week alone just makes me scratch and shake my head at the same time.

I've got people ahead of me telling me it can't be done. I've got people behind me shouting at me to move or do something else. I'm standing in the middle of the road with a dazed look on my face, knowing where I need to be, and a general idea of how to get there, but not sure how to put the car in gear.

There's also some other stuff going on. My best friend is possibly moving in with us. He's 33 and is having a rough time of it too. His mom died just before Halloween, leaving him with no family. He came home News Years Eve to find half his stuff gone and his wife walked out. He lost his apartment. He has no car. He needs to leave the people he's bee renting a room from because the lady below them keeps calling the police about his 2 little doggies. So that bundle of drama keeps getting dumped on me.

I'm becoming more liberal in my political views. Not A liberal, mind you, but more liberal. I used to (foolishly) think you could trust the media and the government. I now believe you can not. There are good eggs, but when they get together they turn into a mob mentality, a 'holier than thou' sect. Everyone is out for money. This has put me at odds with my parents, who while not believing everything they hear, generally fall back that it's easier to trust people than not. This is America after all. Things I hear, rumors and whispers. (not conspiracy theory stuff, that's crazy) There's some extra tension I don't need, plus it adds extra stress.

Spiritually I'm dead in the water. I know where I am. I know where God is and where I need to be. I try to overcome, but can't. Or won't. Either way it is hurting that relationship as well, which I need more than anything else.

I feel like I've got front row seats to the end of the world and I'm sitting by myself.

I'm frustrated and need to vent. No need to reply. Thanks.

Edited by TM2 Dinobot
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This may be of some use around the publishing stuff, I found it really quite interesting.

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/03/guest-post-by-john-locke.html

Its worth pointing out with the hindsight of been annoyingly old(!) and have kids of my own, life isnt fair and sadly most people dont get to do what they enjoy for a living, working is for most people a sacrifice we make of our time in order to have the things we want/need to survive/make the best of our lives.

I cant really add much more as I guess there are cultural differences, when i was 24 I'd been working full time for 8 years and such, been at school at 24 is a "luxury" I could not have

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Life can sometimes really suck. The shift to adulthood can be especially difficult. That's the point when you really have to establish priorities, make sacrifices, and generally begin to face some of the more harsh aspects of reality. It ain't easy, but it's a lot less difficult if you make choices and face them head on. If you just float by, you'll always be going down stream.

That said, it's also important to hold on to some dreams regardless of how unrealistic they may seem. Keep honing your writing and pounding away at publishers. Either you'll finally get your work published or you won't. Either way, you'll have given your best effort at achieving your dreams. More than I can say for most of us. Good luck.

There's nothing worse than older and "wiser" people dolling out the advice. :unsure: (Not meant as a criticism to anyone. Fully aware that I am now one of those people.)

Edited by Turtle
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I hear you, your points are very valid. Forgive me for being one of the older members and really not trying to doll out advice. My story I'm a semi adequate singer, tons of stage work, musicals, sang with the opera for years, the money I made barely paid the self employment tax at the end of the year. I have MANY friends who are trying to follow thier bliss, not wanting to sell out or become a corporate drone. In the end it's a lifestyle choice. I work for a fortune 50 company that pays well (well maybe pays ok) have a home, car, blah blah blah. Do I love my job? No. But it becomes a means to an end, it serves a purpose, and I have chosen to live a lifestyle that requires more than the few dollars I made at my passion of singing. If you ave a gift at writing, use it! Continue to write. No one says when you're done at work you can't continue to write. And if you keep at it, odds are you'll have some success. You might not be the next JK Rowling, but if you keep at it there's certainly some satisfaction knowing you're doing what you love. Being a corporate sell out I often question what's the point, what's going to be my legacy when I'm gone (aside from my formidable minimate collection). I can't answer that, though I think that's a lifelong struggle to find the point. Please, keep writing, don't give up.

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It sucks that your experience at that workshop was so negative. Do you read Neil Gaiman? His journal is often very supportive and encouraging to aspiring writers.

It sounds like you've got a lot going on in your life. You may need to tell your friend, that as much as you care for him, and your concern over his recent losses, that he and his dogs would put a further burden on you and your family that you really can't handle.

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Funny, I was actually thinking about bumping Nessex's old thread on his job quandry recently, but figure I could post this here. In Nessex's previous thread, if I remember correctly, I suggested it might be best for some (as rsprin says) to go the route of the better paying/more stable option. I took that route last year for my current job. . .and now, I'm on the verge of taking a significant cut in pay and/or hours just to get the hell out of here. There's something to be said for financial stability. There's also something to be said for your level of happiness. And if you work in a soulless place with people doing things for the wrong reasons, etc., then you may start to ask yourself if that is the right route.

So, can't speak to your specific situation, but there are drawbacks to working for the money. And until the accumulated affects of those body blows started adding up, I didn't realize how serious those drawbacks could be.

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Dude, keep writing. Don't let a perceived lack of success get to you. Keep writing. You will have to get a full time job. You will. There's no avoiding it. But you can still write in your spare time.

Some of the greatest novelists being published today grafted long, and hard at day jobs and kept their dreams alive by writing in their spare time. Also don't forget that the more life experience you gain, and the more people you encounter in life, the more you will have to write about.

Stick at it. Keep writing.

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I had never written anything worthwhile in my life & I was asked to write something in my mother's memory at her funeral . I decided that the only way to go would be to write a poem ,something which I hadn't done since school ...I also left school at 16 ! Without any hesitation I wrote the draft of the poem in about an hour & then tidied up the finished article the following day . The poem was read out at the service by the female pastor who had comforted her in her final days. I have done very few things in my life that have given me greater pleasure than to write that poem . I read that poem now & again & it helped me immensely during a very bad time & it still does . Is the poem any good ? Yes ,I think it is bloody marvellous & so do the people who heard it at my mother's funeral.

Write TM2Dinobot & keep writing but very few of us get the opportunity to make money at what we love doing, I genuinely hope you do. I will make nothing from my poem but it is priceless.

I spent 25 years doing something I detested but I ,unfortunately(?) was very good at it & it paid the bills for most of those 25 years. I don't regret it .....often ;)

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Two of my favorite modern-day writers--Stephen King and Sting--were both school teachers at one point. I know it is a maligned discipline nowadays, but maybe you could go the route of teaching what you love while you work on doing what you really want to in your spare time.

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The world always needs great teachers. Teaching can be hard work, but you get a good winter break, spring break, and summer break- great time to work on your writing! Benefits are normally pretty good, and the pay is decent enough(for now, at least). There are other fun benefits too. For instance, MidSouthCon has a seminar for teachers. That kind of looks right up your alley, TM2Dinobot. I'm sure there's something similar in your neck of the woods. Teaching is a great path to consider.

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Here's my two cents, if it's worth that much, only written trying to help. I had aspirations and then an offer to work for a wonderful, world-wide architecture firm when I came out of college, doing exactly what I thought I would want to do, but decided I would rather have less pay, no travel and regular hours to come home to my family every day and energy to do art for me instead of giving so much of my time/focus to what might have been an exciting career. I still think about it sometimes at my job...what might have been...but not when I'm home with my kids every evening. Set priorities and then make decisions based on them. I would love to make money doing art, but a close second is having a steady paycheck and the time/freedom to create things for myself. For me, consistant time with family was number 1 and I tried to act accordingly.

I have a good friend who is also an aspiring writer...in her spare time. She is a school librarian by day and teaches a literature class at night at the local small college. Both of those paychecks come while surrounding herself with what she loves, meeting people in the business, and constantly working on her abilities. Maybe you can also find other ways to channel what you love to do into a more stable living, and use the job to get you closer to where you want to be long-term.

In your last point I believe you give yourself the biggest part of your answer. I firmly believe that God is the answer to any problem or situation and when in a mutual relationship with Him, all things are possible, all prayers are answered (even sometimes with a "not now") and all things can be overcome.

Unexpectadly helped me to write this. Maybe something will be worthwhile to you or someone else.

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Yay you! Good to hear you're making some headway at least :)

There's just so much that's eerie about you posting this topic, Dinobot. Because it feels like I'm in almost the exact boat as you, and even worse is the fact that there must be hundreds, even millions of us feeling like this right now. I'm fresh out of college and still on the hunt on my first job. Like you I would have been perfectly happy just to get to write cute stories for the rest of my life. But to add insult to injury I also have to deal with a behavioral disorder and a turbulent home life, so I often feel like fate itself is periodically kicking me in the butt.

Yeah, I'm in a bit of a soul-searching mood these days. But I'm still here, so I figured I might as well bite the bullet and give it my best shot anyway, even if it scares the crap out of me a lot of days :unsure:

At least you know we're all in this together now :thumbsup:

Edited by NorthRaider
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That's a sucky predicament you've gotten yourself into TM2, I feel for you. I totally understand how frustrating and soul crushing a job in the arts can be, it happens to me every couple of years. When it does happen, I look at where I am versus where I was years ago and realize that as long as I'm making progress, no matter how little, I'll get to my goal eventually. But understand that there are a lot of rough years ahead. If this was an easy profession, everyone would do it. Instead it's those who stick it out through the rough times, learn from it, and push past it all that are the ones that make it. Sure, you get the occasional 21 year-old phenom that makes a big splash with their first works, but that's very very unlikely. Like, winning the lottery unlikely.

Stick with it. Find some way to get your voice and/or work out there and start making it happen. Sitting on novels and screenplays are great, but the only way you're going to be the hot commodity that you know that you could be is by making everyone take notice of you. Start a blog, a twitter feed, a podcast, or a whatever, but find a way that puts you out there as a writer, and more, where you can engage with a future audience. Fostering that audience will make it grow and eventually you'll get paid for doing what you want to do. You might have to find a job in the meantime, but it's better to start pushing to the future now than to wait. Every day that passes is another day to start bringing your future closer to reality.

Good luck and keep your head up.

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TM2, I'm about 10 years older then you, and when I was 24 I felt exactly the same way you do right now. EXACTLY. I wanted to write, and that was all I wanted to do, and I couldn't see being happy any other way. And I was totally flummoxed and bamboozled by the publishing industry (particularly comics). I felt like I was on the other side of the gate watching all the other kids play in the playground. And now?... Well, I still feel that way, a bit. But! I can hopefully share some insights with you:

1. The publishing industry- really the whole entertainment industry- does not reward the most talented. Most people that "make it" do so through blind luck or connections. Unfortunately, I've found that published authors usually give the same kind of crappy advice that the guy you saw gave. I think it's because they don't really KNOW how they broke through, or they don't want to admit that their neighbor growing up works for their publishing house. It's very disheartening, though.

2. I used to think that if I didn't make it, that would be the worst thing in the world. And now? From the other side of thirty? I can tell you... it's really not. Your life can and will still be a happy one even if you don't reach your creative goals. And, not reaching your goals doesn't make you a failure, or not worthy, it just... it just means it didn't happen. That's all.

My two cents, for what it's worth.

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Yeah, but what do you DO? You know? I'm all for contingency plans, and it's only within the last 3 years that I got any kind of main plan at all. If this thing falls out of the sky, I don't think I'm going to be able to glide it in. :confused:

What is it they say? When you have nothing left, run for office?

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I think that it may be time for the cold water. Most people don't get to do what they love for a living and as terrible as it sounds it's probably time to find something that you don't hate to do in the meantime while you are pursuing your creative goals. I had a similar situation when I was a little younger than you are and I decided that if I wanted the things that would make me the happiest (a family of my own and the ability to buy what I wanted when I wanted) I needed to look at life realistically and man up and get a job. I still write and watch movies, not as much as I'd like but enough and it's not bad. Sorry if it seems harsh.

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I'm 37 and married with four kids. I went through a similar situation myself in my mid-20s, and I watched my friends and siblings go through a similar thing. I've heard it called a Quarter Life Crisis. It can last awhile unfortunately.

Mid-20s are very hard. Education level and ability often outmatch actual earnings and jobs. We are still working through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression which has only made things worse for people in their 20s. On top of that one has the generational divide between parents and kids. I've heard it said that people in their 20s-30s become Liberals as they are just starting out and the "social safety net" becomes of utmost concern. By their 50s-60s people turn Conservative as the changes in the world outpace their comfort level.

I can't offer much advice. I know that there is no way I could have planned all of the things I've done in my life since my "Quarter Life Crisis". Opportunity kept knocking and I kept answering. My only advice is this: Don't put an artificial deadline on your dreams. I had all of these crazy ideas about what I was going to accomplish by age 30. Some of it I did, some of it I did later, other things are no longer important to me.

In a strange way, I think the QLC and other set-backs tend to make artists/writers better. I know I'd rather read the book written by the 52-year-old divorcee who spent 5 years in a Romanian prison for a crime he didn't commit than some book by a 19-year old wunderkind. Not that anything you did in your 20s isn't good, but good writing ages well and you will likely feel different about your own work in ten years. You may even make numerous revisions over the years as you add in your new life experiences. We learn more from our failings than our successes. So perhaps the secret to writing success is failure?

I say go ahead and run for office. Politics interest you and the experience will shape, form, and perhaps enhance the craft you love. It would make one hell of a story!

Edited by Jatta Pake
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I'd tell you to run for office too, except you're a Texan, and Texans shouldn't be allowed to hold office anywhere, even Texas. Especially Texas! :biggrin:

As for what you can do, well, pulling from my own experience again, I didn't figure out my career until I was on the other side of 30. I got married and moved with my new wife while she was in grad school, and while there I ended up getting a job at the library. I found that I really loved it, and I've since gotten my masters in library science. It wasn't a career that I'd ever considered, but it was right there in front of me the whole time. Maybe there's something like that for you.

The other thing I'd say, as a creative person, is that you are living in a time where you have opportunities to get your work out there we didn't have even ten years ago (well, maybe fifteen). You can do pretty much anything you want, put it out there on the web, and find an audience. There are lots of success stories for people that have gone outside the normal channels, and I think that might be the legacy artistically of the early 21st century. So even if you're having trouble breaking down the traditional doors, don't give up hope; think outside the box.

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  • 7 months later...

So, thinks are better for sure. I'm actually passing all my classes with A's, something I didn't expect to do considering they're the hardest classes I've ever had. I'm leaving for a mission trip to Honduras in about 2 weeks (scared out of my mind, thanks for asking). I've got a car and a much better job.

I also just finished the 3rd edit on my book and am now ready for a professional editor. I'm not really sure where o start looking, but I know for sure I'm not going to the place that quoted me $1,200. That's just nuts. I am almost certainly going to use Amazon and just do a Kindle eBook. I want a copy for myself, but I can always just print that out on a computer I suppose. :P So I just thought I'd share that things are looking up. I'd still like to get this out by December, so if one of y'all knows an editor, I'm all ears. I'm gona keep looking. Cheers!

--TM2

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Congrats man! sounds like things are going your way!

I also just finished the 3rd edit on my book and am now ready for a professional editor. I'm not really sure where o start looking, but I know for sure I'm not going to the place that quoted me $1,200. That's just nuts.

Just so you know, i have a few friends who are in publishing. I'm not sure how long your book is - but it is not uncommon to pay upwards of $5000 (Australian) for a professional editor to take a look at your book. :confused:

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