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groundhog7s

Captain America movie Minimates

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the change from nazi's to HYDRA was made in the new Avengers cartoon as well. I have to admit as much as I like watching Cap go after hitler and his goons I really like the change from nazi and hitler, to HYDRA headed up by the Red Skull

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Far fetched? Perhaps, but why take the chance?

Far fetched? I don't think so, I bet these people would have bought a Nazi Red Skull for Adolf: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28269290/ns/us_news-weird_news/

But hey, if there's a movie Hydra army dump they can totally chill with Nemesis and we can all know why that's a terrible thing to have sad.

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I'm confused. Has DST ever actually said they wouldn't put a swastika on a Minimate? Are we just assuming they wouldn't?

Well - neither of the Red Skull figures that have come out have had swastikas on them. . . They also avoided naming a figure holocaust (as has been discussed in the TRU 10 thread).

I don't think they have definitively said they wont . . . but i think it's reasonably clear that they wont.

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it is illegal to even have a swastika on anything in Germany. This could also be a reason to not have it on there. It would be easier and cheaper to create one universal product than to give each region to separate designs

EDIT - although, I surprised to hear this, after all these years it is still illegal? Even that seems somewhat backward

What JasonTodd mentions here is absolutely right. You are not allowed to have a swastika - it's called 'Hakenkreuz' in German - on anything here in Germany. And I can somehow understand your thought on this, BobaFett, it's been a long time. But I can tell you, I wouldn't feel comfortable at all, when I'd see someone wearing a swastika in public here in Germany. Living in this country with this history, I can't imagine a period of time beeing long enough, to let people use this symbol here again. Especially when you consider, that we still got neo-nazis spread all over the place. It is a tiny tolerated but monitored minority, but even that minority is too much in my eyes. As long as you got people still identifying with those bloody bastards, it's not enough time past. (We don't need to talk about the fact, that not every single German soldier in WW2 was a nazi, that's something completely different.) I don't know if it's the best idea to just bann that symbol here - especially since it has a different meaning in different cultures as TM2 already pointed out - but it's hard to associate it with something else here in Germany.

I wouldn't have a problem with a nazi minimate (I just couldn't write Nazi-'mate, felt wrong...), because I do understand it's context, but I don't know if I would produce it, if I had the choice.

Far fetched? I don't think so, I bet these people would have bought a Nazi Red Skull for Adolf: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28269290/ns/us_news-weird_news/

This is not funny. Not at all. "They need to accept a name. A name's a name. The kid isn't going to grow up and do what (Hitler) did." What the fuck? Seriously! And their other child is called "Aryan Nation"? Even if your last name is Hitler for some reason or the other, and you really think the sound of the name Adolf is awesome, you should be clever enough to not name your child like that. Is there any other way to look at it? Same for Josef, if your last name's Stalin, or Benito if your name's Mussolini.

I really didn't intend politics here, but after Baghead's post - no offence to you, buddy! - I just had to say something.

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EDIT: I was typing as Bob was posting so please do not take anything I have said out of context but I have not altered anything in my post except a spelling or two.

I'm grateful for the input & I'm also glad we've discussed this without crossing the forum's guidelines. The subject, as you probably gathered ,fascinates me & I have been told on many occasions that my refusal to 'just accept things' will get me into trouble. It does. What we have been discussing has ,I now realise,been discussed in many other toy & toy-modelling forums . The guys who build the WW2 kits apparently struggle to get the decals for their otherwise perfect scale model German planes & tanks etc. purely because ebay will not sell them,or if they do they make sure they are censored out of photos & descriptions. Swastikas can be shown in auction details on ebay but again it is absolutely fascinating to see what they allow & what they don't. Type in 'Nazi' & you will get a whole different scenario again which I eventually almost found amusing ......I'll leave it to you to interpret it you're own way . Incredibly enough you can buy 1/6 Rising Sun flags which reminded me of http://www.minimatedatabase.com/figure.php...56&n=Kabuki ....& the fact (please keep pace with my erratic analogies) that the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6 'Zero Fighter' special edition (car) was renamed the 'Tommy Makinen' for the UK market specifically to appease all those 80 year old rally-car enthusiasts :rolleyes:

DST's call on this will undoubtedly be the correct one & I accept that but it is bloody difficult enough wading through the propaganda on the evening news to start worrying about toys falling into the wrong hands.

Whilst researching for my post on US ebay yesterday I tapped in 'German WW2 Complete Uniform' & came upon 2 items ,one of which has a BIN of $12,500. If you want to do the same ,please do.............

.........however when you see what is for sale for $12,500 or 'Best Offer' you may wish you hadn't . WTF!!!!!!

There was no smile on my face.

Edited by buttheadsmate

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I really didn't intend politics here, but after Baghead's post - no offence to you, buddy! - I just had to say something.

That & everything else you said Bob isn't political ........just bloody common sense.

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I am, like many others, fascinated by the events of WW2. It is amazing to me that such horrible and tragic events happened a mere 70 years ago. While I would appreciate from a historical sense if Marvel were to dictate that Captain America must battle Nazi's, I can also appreciate every reason why aren't going that route, even more so with the Mouse behind the properties.

Bob, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and opinions with us, as we here in the States don't often get to hear the opinions of current-day German citizens. Of all the books, films, documentaries that have been created on the subject, rarely do you get insight into the minds of the people that have to deal with this as an aspect of their past.

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Bob, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and opinions with us, as we here in the States don't often get to hear the opinions of current-day German citizens. Of all the books, films, documentaries that have been created on the subject, rarely do you get insight into the minds of the people that have to deal with this as an aspect of their past.

That's something I did experience a lot while I was living in New York. While I almost never talk about WW2 here in Europe, I was talking to a lot of people about it in the US. See, the thing is, although I do think that one of the worst - if not the worst - things in human history happened here and nazis were/are without any doubt evil, I also live with this as part of my own history. I don't have anything to do with it. Neither do my parents. But my grandpa does. He - now 86 - was a German soldier back then. He was young and naive. He had no idea what happend. He went to war when he was 18 and got captured as a prisoner of war by the British Forces and held prison somewhere in northern Africa. He said, he even should have been executed in 1945. But then - this sounds a lot like Hollywood - when the prisoners were told get executed, to line up, US soldiers came to bring the news, Germany had surrendered, war was over. That's the way my grandpa told this storry a lot of times to me even when I was a child - and don't know what's true and what not. My girlfriends grandpa on the other side was a member of the social democrats in Germany back then and as a member of this party, he should have been sent to a concentration camp in 1944, but was able to hide and survive. His brother on the other hand was a member of the Waffen-SS - he had one of the tattoos on the upper arm, identifying him as a member - and regarding his own information he gave before he died, he even was a member of Hitler's Leibstandarte - his bodyguards.

What I wanted to say is, this history is always part of us here in Germany. Or at least it should be in my eyes. I'm living on the other side of WW2, on the evil side. You have to live with it one way or the other, but you should not forget about it.

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i bet we will see these guys as mates in the dump. (Minor Spoiler-ish link)

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploa...motorcycles.jpg

I would rather see them in the MAX line with their motorcycles. Maybe a two pack since they are smaller than the cars we have gotten. Or better yet, one of these with one of these:

http://www.google.com/m/search?site=images...ovie%20bike#i=3

:thumbsup:

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Now that I know who the characters are in the movie I would say that the characters we'll get will perhaps be something like this:

Captain America & The Red Skull

Bucky & Arnim Zola

Nick Fury & Hydra Agent

Dum Dum Dugan & Hydra Agent

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From Chuck on twitter:

Cap Movie MM single packs get to go in the next issue BUT the studio wants the images backed out. We can show them later but not so soon.

That's disappointing.

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From Chuck on twitter:

Cap Movie MM single packs get to go in the next issue BUT the studio wants the images backed out. We can show them later but not so soon.

That's disappointing.

sure is

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FRAT coming up.

I find it amusing that say something like the confederacy flag has bad connections in the past now is by most ppl worldwide just means nothing more then to stand up against "the man" in a rebel sense, And I put that down to the Dukes of Hazzard.

Actually, the Confederate Flag still burns people here in the States. In the South, brandishing the confederate flag frequently starts fights with minorities. While many claim its purpose is to celebrate Southern heritage, the actual purpose tends to signal very anti-black feelings and redneck solidarity. In my life I have met hundreds of people who publically display the Confederate flag. All of them are racists. Perhaps not "KKK burning a cross" racist, but racist none the less.

Not trying to stir up anything ... but as we all know symbols mean different things to different people. No offense intended towards Southerners, but there is much Southern heritage to celebrate that doesn't include the flag. My wife is from California and she is frequently surprised by the stories I tell her. California is far more diverse and I rarely see the Confederate flag out here.

While I have never personally flown a Confederate flag myself, I do support it whole heatedly, for two reasons. 1) You have the right to fly it, and the right itself is more precious than anything else. 2) It is my heritage. I had two great-great-uncles who dies at the Battle of Chickamauga. My great-great-grandfather lost two brothers that day. One died in his arms.

The problem with the "Reb" flag is that it isn't the true Confederate flag. It's a modified Battle Flag of the Confederacy, the "Stars and Bars". It was first put into use by the KKK back in the 50's I believe, and actually flew briefly again during WWII. The True confederate flag is something that still flies today, usually without any notice AT ALL. Six Flags Over Texas theme park flue the 6 Texas flags (Spanish, French, Mexican, Texas, Confederate, American) and no one noticed for years. Why? Because it's not controversial. Ladies and Gentlemen, the true Confederate flag, as seen 11 pages down in Google Image Search.

V1978-36-2ps.jpg

I much prefer to use this flag. It still holds the same heritage for me, but it is not tainted by politics or heightened emotions. People do freak out when they see it. They have a right to freak out, trust me. The Aryan Nation spews hate and bile, and they should disban, now. They kill people that that is never okay, I don't care what your heritage is. Ironically enough, the KKK's member ranks swelled to over several million between World Wars 1 and 2, due to European immigration. Their greatest time of power was hatred for fellow whites, not blacks.

So, this is really a story of two flags. One that I see whenever I drive, that causes bad feelings and is a flash point for all the worst in us, and a second flag that people have forgotten, representing a time we should never forget. For the record, my cousin is black, and he feels the same way I do about the real flag. He hates the Stars and Bars though, where as it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Bob, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and opinions with us, as we here in the States don't often get to hear the opinions of current-day German citizens. Of all the books, films, documentaries that have been created on the subject, rarely do you get insight into the minds of the people that have to deal with this as an aspect of their past.

That's something I did experience a lot while I was living in New York. While I almost never talk about WW2 here in Europe, I was talking to a lot of people about it in the US. See, the thing is, although I do think that one of the worst - if not the worst - things in human history happened here and nazis were/are without any doubt evil, I also live with this as part of my own history. I don't have anything to do with it. Neither do my parents. But my grandpa does. He - now 86 - was a German soldier back then. He was young and naive. He had no idea what happend. He went to war when he was 18 and got captured as a prisoner of war by the British Forces and held prison somewhere in northern Africa. He said, he even should have been executed in 1945. But then - this sounds a lot like Hollywood - when the prisoners were told get executed, to line up, US soldiers came to bring the news, Germany had surrendered, war was over. That's the way my grandpa told this storry a lot of times to me even when I was a child - and don't know what's true and what not. My girlfriends grandpa on the other side was a member of the social democrats in Germany back then and as a member of this party, he should have been sent to a concentration camp in 1944, but was able to hide and survive. His brother on the other hand was a member of the Waffen-SS - he had one of the tattoos on the upper arm, identifying him as a member - and regarding his own information he gave before he died, he even was a member of Hitler's Leibstandarte - his bodyguards.

What I wanted to say is, this history is always part of us here in Germany. Or at least it should be in my eyes. I'm living on the other side of WW2, on the evil side. You have to live with it one way or the other, but you should not forget about it.

That is so cool! What an amazing story you have! And no, I don't think you or your people are evil. I think the acts they SOME of them committed were certifiably evil, but not the people. Might I remind you that Japan invaded China in 1933, 3 years before Hitler came into power and 6 before the war "officially" started. They killed millions of Chinese and Koreans, as many as the Germans if not more, and people go "Oh those awful Germans". But no one really thinks about Japan, mainly, IMHO, because they ignore the entire thing and deny that WWII even happened. I've met kids from Japan who didn't have a clue that WWII existed, or that thy were in it.

Stalin put his own people in the Gulags, killing more than Hitler dreamed up. And of course, German scientists studied Eugenics in America in the 1910's and 20's. We taught your scientists. We trained them how to kill. So no, your is not an bad people. Mankind has a frightening propensity towards evil all on their own, it needs no help from race or creed. Since the first man to pick up a rock and kill his brother, we've been practicing at it as a whole. SS soldiers were given a German Sheppard puppy when they first began training. They were encouraged to train their dogs, spend time with them, love them, feed them off their plate, even sleep in the same bed as them to keep warm. When their training was over, as graduation, they had to strangle their dogs with their bare hands. It was a dehumanizing tactic. After you've killed the one thing you love more than anything else, and loved you unconditionally, even as it breathed it last, then killing humans is a breeze. Sorry, but that was the training and evidently it worked. :/

What I do find fascinating though is the cultural aspect. I Met a girl from Germany once at an anime convention, and she was drawing a Chibi Hitler nomming on a pretzel. She said she loved America because she was able to do that. Do you find that most Germans want to talk freely about the war, or create expressive parodies as this girl did? Or do people want to shove it in a closet as the older generation of Japanese has, and deny it to their children? Do you personally view the Swastika as a Confederate National Flag, or a Confederate Battle Flag?

An on the Minimate front (Sorry, wanted to chase that rabbit for a while) As someone else pointed out, EMH used Hydra/Nazis, and it worked fine. I actually kinda like that, because that means they can return in the modern era without much explanation. "Oh, they were hiding" or something. If Nazis came pouring out of the woodwork to fight Ironman en all during the modern era, it might look weird, especially on screen. So having Hydra do it makes it much more believable (in the realm of comics anyways) and it means during WWII you can just establish that they were there.

Besides, if we can't get a Swastika on Red Skull, what are the chances of us getting full Nazi Minimates? None at all.

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My two cents on the Confederate flag... It is the flag of a separatist army of terrorists who tried to destroy the United States of America. Flying it is the same as flying a swastika. I know that statement is going to rub a lot of folks the wrong way but it is the cold truth. I understand that this is not the first and only confederate flag but the "rebel" or "Dixie" flag is the battle flag of the Confederate Army. The Confederate Army was the enemy of the the United States. That being said. People in the US have every right to fly that mockery as do people have the right to burn the US flag. I do not support doing either but would defend the right to do it with my last breath.

Back to Minimates... SPOILERS!!!

No need for the Skull to wear a swastika. He isn't a Nazi in the film. He breaks away from the Nazi's to form HYDRA.

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As someone who has lived in the south for the better part of their life I can not honestly say I have seen anyone fly a confederate flag with out it being a racist symbol. Anyone that has used the old states rights argument has done so as a cop out and to hide their true purpose.

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I think it's safe to say that both World War II and the Civil War are too often overly simplified as being about the Holocaust and slavery, respectively. And that's a shame, because they are both obviously more complex. Every German soldier wasn't an ant-semite, just as every Rebel soldier wasn't a racist (look at Jonah Hex! :D). There's a great joke in a Simpson's episode where Apu is taking his US citizen's test, and one of his questions is what caused the Civil War. He begins to give a long, thoughtful answer, that there were many causes... and the interviewer stops him and says "just say slavery". Funny and sad, like a lot of the jokes on the Simpsons (when they were funny).

People in general need to remember that our cultures are varied and complex, and that we all have shining moments in our history, and things we're embarrassed by. The US, after all, is the only government to ever use nuclear weapons on another country.

Anyway, thanks for your particular experiences, Bob and TM2, and everyone else for your insights.

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As someone who has lived in the south for the better part of their life I can not honestly say I have seen anyone fly a confederate flag with out it being a racist symbol. Anyone that has used the old states rights argument has done so as a cop out and to hide their true purpose.

I have seen it flown, not as a racist symbol, but as a memorial once.

It was over a Confederate cemetary. To me, this is absolutely right. I myself would find it insulting if I was in a war for a side that wasn't the winner and over my grave they put a symbol I had no faith in. A symbol that was in every sense of the word my enemy. I understand the symbol may not be right, but these people died for it. Died with honor, with valor, and died for what they believe in. I don't think anyone has a right to deny them this memorial to their side, to their loss. In fact, I would even go as far as to say that graves of those in the Nazi party should be allowed their symbol. I understand the symbol was not one that is right, but I honestly don't think the people who honestly believed in it should have their graves more or less spat on because they lost. I believe that we must acknowledge the past with dignity and allow those who believed in it then to carry it to their graves. But in the modern world, let it die. Let the ideas die with those in the graves who believed in it.

That Confederate flag was worn. It was not at all in good shape. Like what it stands for, the flag is dying. Don't ignore it. Remember what it stands for, and reject those values. Reject those ideas. Learn from evil, remember evil, and never forget that goodness prevails now and forevermore.

And respect those who died for it. After all, how would you as an American feel if they flew a Communist Chinese flag over your grave?

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Not sure if this helps or hurts anyone's argument, but it's still on the Mississippi state flag.

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I think it's safe to say that both World War II and the Civil War are too often overly simplified as being about the Holocaust and slavery, respectively. And that's a shame, because they are both obviously more complex. Every German soldier wasn't an ant-semite, just as every Rebel soldier wasn't a racist (look at Jonah Hex! :D). There's a great joke in a Simpson's episode where Apu is taking his US citizen's test, and one of his questions is what caused the Civil War. He begins to give a long, thoughtful answer, that there were many causes... and the interviewer stops him and says "just say slavery". Funny and sad, like a lot of the jokes on the Simpsons (when they were funny).

People in general need to remember that our cultures are varied and complex, and that we all have shining moments in our history, and things we're embarrassed by. The US, after all, is the only government to ever use nuclear weapons on another country.

Anyway, thanks for your particular experiences, Bob and TM2, and everyone else for your insights.

I'm pretty certain that very few of my father's generation were fighting the Axis powers for any other reason than survival . Japan , Germany & Italy declared war on the US,on the 7th & 11th of December 1941 respectively, some 2 years after Great Britain had stood alone against the bloody lot of them ;) OK... we weren't doing too well but at least we were giving it a go up until you lot decided to join in :)

Incidentally ,I never heard my father,a Naval Commando in WW2, say a bad word about the Germans & he had a distinct respect for them as soldiers or as a people. He was not so complimentary about the Japanese .

I am also really surprised about the potency of that Confederate flag thing ,I truly never realised the feelings that it aroused.

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