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Tarot Witch of the Black Rose minimates


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For what it's worth, I think this has been a very interesting and thought provoking thread that has been handled in a very mature way.

Also: Boobies!

I'm still gonna get these, but then I don't have any kids so I guess for me personally, Minimates are an adult collectable.

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IMO these are no less dodgy than the indy mates or emma frosts costumes ( and the upcoming blackqueen).

Lest we forget these are 2" tall and not exactly anatomically perfect, anyone who gets a kick off a minimate that way needs to reallly reasses their mindset, heck at least we get clothed versions! ( which it sounds like in the comic they spend very little time actually wearing).

I think the issue with kids esp little ones isn't a big one either, they will be 'skullface man' and 'clear boney women' to them and have their own made up backstory, that's what kids do. I don't really see them wanting to toddle out to the store to demand the " my vagina is haunted" issues.

Having said that I do understand that some folks have differing views on the subject than mine and respect that. ( esp groundhog who stated an opinion and went out of his way to not bitch about it.)

Oh and will I buy them... Probably not, money here is limited and these are not top of my must have list.

T.

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Let me be clearer...

I am not going to buy these. Like GH said, I share mates with my sons and these are not kid appropriate. I've never been a fan of T&A comics, regardless of underlying subject matter. There is a line, and that book crosses it in my mind. (And the Witchblade-verse rides right along that line consistently and does always stay on the right side of it.)

But make no mistake, that underlying subject matter runs strong through a lot of properties some of you guys do support. Mephisto tempts people into selling him their souls and likes people to believe he's the Biblical Satan. He is Marvel's main devil, and proudly so. But I didn't here any of this kind of talk when the IG set was announced. We spent a good deal of time of talking about the viability of the Brother Voodoo minimate, but no one said anything about his obvious occult ties being objectionable.

Every believer's convictions are their own. I am not, by any means, trying to say you are wrong in your objections. But there is a logic disconnect here I am struggling to understand.

Edit- TBT:

The difference between these and the White and Black Queens, IMO, I can let my 8 year old read the stories where Selene and Emma were dressed that way. Pretty darn sure the Tarot stuff is inappropriate for him. YMMV.

Edited by Mirymate
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Thank you everyone for your opinions I really enjoy the various degrees that we come from.

BHM-Not picking on just using your example, the big difference between 'Nazi emblazoned' Red Skull and these (to my eyes) is that marvel mates are focused on multiple age groups. Tarot is aimed at an adult collector much in the way that Silence of the Lambs was or Godfather would have been.

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I know nothing of Tarot (except for #53), but I'll probably be buying these for parts, Skeleton Man and Crypt Chick (are those really their names?! please tell me the Haunted Vagina article made those up.) have some really cool looking new sculpted pieces (The only one I won't be tearing apart for fodder is white spikey-crown lady, my fiancee already laid claim to her for her pile of minimates she likes I can't part out, joining the ranks of Gamora and Black Panther)

I don't think these are any risk to children... if they are, great! that would mean kids are actually going into comic book shops, hopefully they'll buy a copy of "Batman: the Brave and the Bold" (comic or cartoon based, either or) or one of those brightly colored Spider-man digest and get into comics to save the dying industry, As I doubt these are headed to Toys R Us (how many of the Marvel mates even end up there? Heck several key Ghostbuster characters weren't even released at TRU, just because it's a minimate doesn't mean it ends up on a TRU shelf)... aside from which, these would hardly be the worse thing TRU has sold even if they did carry them. McFarlane had a crapton of racy/occult figures (back when they made toys instead of bad discussions) I don't know if TRU carried Bondage Dorthy (I know I saw her at Kay-Bee) but 99% of the Angela/generic spawn lady character/Conan female figures were as sparsely clothed as the Tarot Minimates are implied to be and they carried 'Tortured Souls' and several of the "McFarlane Monsters" series (I was always surprised TRU wouldn't carry "Hellboy" movie figures because of the world 'Hell' but a figure loosely based on the man Hellboy's main villain is loosely based on hanging from a pole half nude on hooks is fine.)

Also I hope the comparisons to Nazi Red Skull are strictly on a "Nazi=Witchcraft" level, because if "Nude Comic Art=Nazi", then Christ, my DeviantArt page qualifies me as a war criminal. (Also makes me wonder if in some alternate universe were he did go to Art School if "As Bad As Hitler" is an apt comment to make about Comics... "Rob Liefeld is worse then Hitler! At least ol' Dolfy drew FEET during his run on Teen Titans")

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To go back to your post, Miry, there's something about this property that crosses a lot of lines at once. When you talk about a character like Mephisto, at least to me, he's really just another Marvel villian. As you said, his character lets people believe he is the Devil, but in esence he's just another super-powered bad guy from another dimension. Now, if DST put a figure called Satan and claimed it was a representation of the being called that, I woudl have serious concerns over that (as I'm sure others would also). As to Brother Voodoo, I didn't chime in in the original conversation because it wasn't a reality that the character woud be made into a figure (why complain over the speculative ideas of others?). To me, there's some things that are questionable and some things that shouldn't even be questioned as to whether or not they're right (for me). But that's my own personal stand on this product and I never expect anyone else to change to fit what I believe. If DST releases these, I won't protest or shun others for supporting the line, I just won't buy them myself.

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Thank you everyone for your opinions I really enjoy the various degrees that we come from.

BHM-Not picking on just using your example, the big difference between 'Nazi emblazoned' Red Skull and these (to my eyes) is that marvel mates are focused on multiple age groups. Tarot is aimed at an adult collector much in the way that Silence of the Lambs was or Godfather would have been.

I don't mind anybody differing with my opinion ,that's healthy but surely Mr.Multiple Age Group knows that Captain America was specifically engineered during WW2 to fight Nazism & Hitler's hordes ???? They know that don't they? If they don't they soon will after picking up the comic ....especially in Reborn :whistling:

May I emphasise that I personally have no problem with the Tarot 'mates themselves .

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Life is full of pick your battles. Whatever our beliefs, convictions or world views, we inevitably comprise them from time to time. Sometimes you are willing to let things slide, not because you justify them, but because you've got bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Other times you feel that your conviction can be logically played down. An example is someone who says they will never see an R rated movie and then justifies watching Passion of the Christ. Or they don't tolerate nudity in any form, except for Shindler's List (which everyone should see IMHO). Our day to day affairs are made up of constant wars of thought, actions and decisions. It's one of the effects of having a 2 sided brain; you have the ability to argue with yourself.

I think GH is right that these don't cross a single line (White Queen, Mephisto) but cross several dozen all at once. It is easy to understand why some people are turned off by that, which is okay for them personally, while others have a line further back, which is alright as well I suppose.

Make a note, people, that's the most tolerant speech I've made all year. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go stop North raider from chewing her own tongue off. :P

Edited by TM2 Dinobot
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Thank you.

I asked, you explained, can't ask for more than that.

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I will also not be buying these. Jeff can you discern who contacted whom about producing these? Does DST think that these will actually sell? If this is about rebooting the IndieMates then surely there are Indies that be more suitable for the brand.

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I plan on buying these and have no problem with them at all. I'll just keep them away from my son. I just don't see the problem here. They are minimates that are based on comic book characters. You guys have a problem with the subjects that are in the comic, but I bet some of you that are complaining have gone and spent money on the Harry Potter movies or books. Both properties deal with the same thing, which is witchcraft and sorcery. One just shows it in a more mature manner is all. Enjoy them for what they are, which is some kick ass looking new minimates. If you don't like the look of them then don't buy em, nuff said.

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Don't you understand the corruption power of a minimate in a thong. :buttrock:

Helen Lovejoy: "Won't somebody please think of the children?!"

Worlds will collide, armageddon will start before 2012, cats will lie next to dogs. Oh, the humanity!

Come on people, it's time to picket outside DST. Let's chant. "Hell no, we won't buy minimates based from adult comics containing haunted genital plot stories!"

... I've run out of sarcasm. I need to recharge.

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I plan on buying these and have no problem with them at all. I'll just keep them away from my son. I just don't see the problem here.

If you" have no problem with them at all" then why "keep them away from " your son ? :huh:

Seriously?!

I think this license is cool also (and "don't have a problem with it") - but I also know that it isn't kid appropriate.

On a different note... Why is it that many of those who don't like this license insist that DST not make these mates and are already gathering pitchforks & torches & picket signs... Do you really live in such an intolerant, egocentric world that if it's not something you personnally like or that offends your sensibilities, then you have irrevocable veto rights for everyone else. How about this - don't buy them (and/or cover your eyes when you see them online or in the store)? This license may not be in the best taste, but it certainly not illegal, nor does it skirt anything illegal (unlike most adult anime with all the jailbait-looking caricatures). Overly sexual topics and adult-only themes are nothing new to this industry.

Edited by captain_cbecker
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I plan on buying these and have no problem with them at all. I'll just keep them away from my son. I just don't see the problem here.

If you" have no problem with them at all" then why "keep them away from " your son ? :huh:

Seriously?!

I think this license is cool also (and "don't have a problem with it") - but I also know that it isn't kid appropriate.

To 'have no problem with them at all' means to HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THEM AT ALL

I am amused to see how many people have no problem with them at all .....apart from....although ....but ...however....not for ... ec.etc. :D

Isn't the implication that you do have a problem with it, though? You have a problem with your children playing with/seeing them.

Thank God Sam I thought I was losing it there :D

On a different note... Why is it that many of those who don't like this license insist that DST not make these mates and are already gathering pitchforks & torches & picket signs... Do you really live in such an intolerant, egocentric world that if it's not something you personnally like or that offends your sensibilities, then you have irrevocable veto rights for everyone else. How about this - don't buy them (and/or cover your eyes when you see them online or in the store)? This license may not be in the best taste, but it certainly not illegal, nor does it skirt anything illegal (unlike most adult anime with all the jailbait-looking caricatures). Overly sexual topics and adult-only themes are nothing new to this industry.

I'm glad that I'm actually one of the people who actually read the whole thread.

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To 'have no problem with them at all' means to HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THEM AT ALL

I am amused to see how many people have no problem with them at all .....apart from....although ....but ...however....not for ... ec.etc. :D

Isn't the implication that you do have a problem with it, though? You have a problem with your children playing with/seeing them.

Thank God Sam I thought I was losing it there :D

I guess I don't see that choosing age approriate material for my children as "having a problem with it".

I don't think the subject matter in an R-Rated movie is age approriate for younger kids - as I don't want my kids too scared to sleep becasue they think Zombies will eat them, or because I think that they lack the filter mechanisms to not use the F-word in second grade. However that doesn't necessarily imply that I have a problem with them.

Edited by captain_cbecker
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While we're on the topic of flogging dead fish* here, can everybody just give the "haunted vaj" joke a rest?! Ivan linked to the review that made that crack three pages ago. Either find something else in the Tarot comics to make fun of (of course that would necessitate actually giving the comic a chance first), or at least make a vagina joke that's original or funny.**

Of course we can always make Walter Peck jokes all day and see if that works too.

* I just got sick of all the overused dead horse references around here and wanted a change of pace :P

** I'm sure a handful exist, though the only one I can remember right now is that time Top Gear reviewed the Lamborghini "Rebenton";)

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I have no problem with these, to be honest. It's not like they are sporting sculpted chests and little holes drilled into the lower torso to make them anatomically correct.

Tarot has a fan base. The Minimates carry a visual appeal to them that likely attract more attention than "guy in suit" or "girl in boxy skirt" that we see with some of the movie and TV properties. And let's face it, the girls are going to appeal more to what marketing departments picture as the typical comic book/toy collector.

That being said, I can understand where the reservations are coming from. Some people object to the source material, others to the almost sexual nature of the characters. I'm no parent myself, but I can understand that you have to think of the children too. No one knows what is best for your kids but yourself, so I don't think anyone here is judging you for your decision.

Personally, I'm glad to see DST trying different directions. Push the boundaries in several directions and see what works and what doesn't. If the preorders aren't there for these, then they'll try a different route. If they are there, then maybe they've attracted an additional fanbase, or they've opened the door for other comics that don't feature Spider-Man or Wolverine. And maybe they convince other license holders that they can release a mini figure that doesn't have to be "kiddie" with smiles on everyone's faces.

I think there's room in the world for both the more "kid friendly" stuff and the more "adult oriented" stuff.

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Those of you flogging DST for producing these: I get the feeling that Broadsword approached DST about making them. (No, I have absolutely no knowledge, just an instinctive guess based on the marketing I've seen.) Kind of like the Goth Girl Minimate.

Which is sheer winning news. For our little 'Mates to start catching people's attention, for artists to think "Hey, I want my intellectual property in that format" is news of the best sort. If the momentum keeps up, maybe George Lucas will take note.

I don't see what's to complain about: they're bright, detailed 'Mates. Nothing boring about 'em. Let's hope they sell through, then maybe we'll see some other comic book 'Mates. My Indiemates have been lonely. :)

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My issue with this set is a bit different from most. Though I don't fully see the connection, I understand that this is a feminist type of comic, that women like to buy, demonstrating that women have the same rights as men to, uh, have same-sex partners and dress up wearing next to nothing. . .I guess.

Well, I'm against feminism. I'm a masculinist, and proud of it. So, I'm not supporting those who advocate these extremist ideologies.

http://www.bundyology.com/nomaam.html

We men outnumber women on this board, probably 10 to 1. Why should they get special Minimates when we don't? It isn't right. It makes me upset.

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As a parent isn't it my duty to not expose my children to things that I may find inapproriate? I have absolutely no problem getting these for myself. Heck, I will even let my son see the skeleton looking one because he likes monsters and stuff. I think that the female figure in the thong is just a little too racy for my 6 year old to be playing with.

Edited by THE_CRIPPLER
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