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battlecat

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I forget about that Colossus costume. That's a great one, for sure. What about Magneto with the huge "M" on his outfit from around that time? The one who I think trained the New Mutants for awhile and led the X-Men briefly. Would be a nice Minimate.

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Wave 33: technically just 2 new ones, one with 2 costume variations (Menace and Rachel Grey. Sorry, I don't count girl Loki, Anti-Venom and the Sentinel as new characters.)

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TRU exclusives: Actually about 6 new characters in all (Union Jack, Molecule Man, Moonstone, Swordsman, Wolverine movie Silver Fox and Agent Zero. 7 if I count Warpath.)

How is Anti-Venom *NOT* a new character, but Moonstone is when we already have a Dark Ms. Marvel? Dark Ms. Marvel is just Moonstone in a different costume with the exact same character and personality. Anti-Venom is Eddie Brock whose life, psychology, and personality have been turned upside-down. Anti-Venom is Eddie Brock WITHOUT the symbiote, a new lease on life, and a drastically different power set. Anti-Venom may look similar and have "Venom" in his name, but he's totally different and a lot more compelling than the Venom character has been in 20 years.

I think Anti-Venom is definitely a good call by DST, and certainly a new character.

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Buuutt the next X-Men wave should look like this :whistling: :

post-2001-1258087594_thumb.jpgpost-2001-1258087612_thumb.jpg

post-2001-1258087658_thumb.jpgpost-2001-1258087742_thumb.jpg

YES YES YES!!!!

With a classic Disco Dazzler Variant, Longshot & WarWolves or Brood army builders!!!! And what the hell, throw in an updated Brown Wolverine while you're at it. I wouldn't complain about another logan if it came with all those awesome characters!

That would be a truly awesome wave of minimates.

EDIT: I would also happily take an 80's Brittish Psylocke in her pink puffy sleaves instead of Wolverine - but we all know DST would probably axe that idea.

Edited by Nessex
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EDIT: I would also happily take an 80's Brittish Psylocke in her pink puffy sleaves instead of Wolverine - but we all know DST would probably axe that idea.

I prefer her over the Asian Psylocke, personally.

Edited by karamazov80
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Wave 33: technically just 2 new ones, one with 2 costume variations (Menace and Rachel Grey. Sorry, I don't count girl Loki, Anti-Venom and the Sentinel as new characters.)

...

...

...

TRU exclusives: Actually about 6 new characters in all (Union Jack, Molecule Man, Moonstone, Swordsman, Wolverine movie Silver Fox and Agent Zero. 7 if I count Warpath.)

How is Anti-Venom *NOT* a new character, but Moonstone is when we already have a Dark Ms. Marvel? Dark Ms. Marvel is just Moonstone in a different costume with the exact same character and personality. Anti-Venom is Eddie Brock whose life, psychology, and personality have been turned upside-down. Anti-Venom is Eddie Brock WITHOUT the symbiote, a new lease on life, and a drastically different power set. Anti-Venom may look similar and have "Venom" in his name, but he's totally different and a lot more compelling than the Venom character has been in 20 years.

Yes, Moonstone and Dark Avengers Ms. Marvel are technically the same character.

But if you look here and here, you'll notice that the TRU Bullseye/Moonstone pack came out almost a month before the second Dark Avengers boxset (which contains the Moonstone-Ms. Marvel). When the TRU pack came out, Moonstone was a new character. By the time Dark Avengers #2 came out, Ms. Marvel was no longer a new character but is instead a new costume variation of Moonstone (or the first Ms. Marvel from Wave 19, if that's how you roll).

This is just a personal criterion of mine when it comes to judging whether a Minimate is a new character or not: I characterize a character not by its superhero name, but its "civilian" one for clarity's sake. That way I can sort out the vast plethora of Spider-Men we got by separating the Peter Parkers from the Ben Reillys and the Mac Gargans and that 2099 Hispanic guy. Of course it makes Minimates like Ronin a bitch to figure out, but this is just my system. And that same system would conclude that since Moonstone and Dark Avengers Ms. Marvel are both Karla Sofen is disguise, then they are costume variations of the same character, thus averting the Carol Danvers can of worms.

In short: Moonstone is a new character and Dark Avengers Ms Marvel isn't, ONLY because they're both the same person and the Moonstone Minimate came out first.

P.S. This is the same reasoning I use so that Venom and Anti-Venom are variations of the same character: they're both Eddie Brock. In a related vein, Dark Avengers Spiderman, Thunderbolts boxset Venom and Wave 30 Scorpion are to me all the same person.

Edited by NorthRaider
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Venom's tricky then, because you could say the symbiote is a separate civilian identity too ;)

Plus Ben Reilly isn't a real name, and before taking it on he considered himself Peter Parker...

And what about ultimate/alternate versions? New or not?

Not making fun, honest, I'm genuinely interested in your system!

As for the posts suggesting Anti-Venom's lack of originality, I'd point out that despite the cheesy (yet extremely accurate) name, it's the most interesting character work they've done with Brock since he first appeared. Also, Venom himself wasn't all that original -- "evil Spider-man with teeth" kind of sums it up!

Edited by battlecat
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Also, Venom himself wasn't all that original -- "evil Spider-man with teeth" kind of sums it up!

Correct. So what does that make a lazy derivation of said evil Spiderman? Well, it makes him Carnage. :sick:

Saying it is the best thing they've done with Brock in years, does that mean much?

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Saying it is the best thing they've done with Brock in years, does that mean much?

It does if you suffered through any of the other stuff they did with Brock during that time! :P Bringing up Carnage suggests you've read some of it... I guess I should've clarified that it's not just the most interesting character work for Brock, but that it is good in of itself, at least IMO*. It's kind of like what they attempted with the whole "lethal protector" thing the first time around, except it actually works this time!**

*All this should be qualified by pointing out I really enjoy modern Marvel -- from other posts I gather plenty of people here do not.

**Also, sorry for helping to go completely off-topic in a thread I started!

Edited by battlecat
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Why do all of those Jeans have jazz hands?

They're not jazz hands. They're phoenix pimp slap hands. lol

I was looking back and wondered what was bothering me about 90's Jean. It's a great minimate, but she looks a little top heavy because of where her belt is and how it extends across the entire figure. Wouldn't it look better if there was a belt piece that went over the t top of the t-crotch piece like the new x-men belt piece or cyclops belt piece instead? Anyone see what I mean?

13831_184942618224_76429063224_2964.jpg

It could be worse...

evc7b6.jpg

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What about White Phoenix Jean, Here Comes Tomorrow Jean, AOA Jean, Marvel Girl Jean, the AWFUL red and yellow post-Cyclopalypse Jean, X-Factor #63 Jean, Uncanny X-Men #262 Jean, X-Men #27 Jean, Red/Yellow X-Factor Jean, bald X-Men The End Jean, fiery angel Earth X Jean and of course... Fat Old Lady Earth X Jean.

Okay, I had to look up a couple of those, but yes to the first four certainly. :D I'm thankful to you guys for this wave though, very happy :D

Edited by lastmaximal
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Nobody diss Carnage, he's possibly my favourite villain ever!

And back on topic, I think this wave is really cool. It's nice to get a mostly unified wave now and again, and I think the character choices are spot on for the most part. Would still love a Jubilee and Sinister, but we'll get them eventually!

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13831_184942618224_76429063224_2964.jpg

It could be worse...

evc7b6.jpg

Blasphemer!

However, I just noticed the minimate Jean Grey doesn't have the blue stripes on her legs. Which, oddly enough, is possibly my most favourite part of that costume. Oh, well, nothing a simple dash of paint couldn't fix. Are those pouches on the side of her legs? My memory could be foggy, was this a common part of this specific costume? Idk how many subtle variations it's had...

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EDIT: I would also happily take an 80's Brittish Psylocke in her pink puffy sleaves instead of Wolverine - but we all know DST would probably axe that idea.

I have never, EVER completely understood the reasoning behind making her Asian outside of Jim Lee felt like it. The first in story explanation was dumb, the second was dumb and convoluted. And yet it stuck.

I feel the same way about Cat-Beast. It was a dumb idea, done to placate a "name" artist. And yet it's stuck.

Also, Venom himself wasn't all that original -- "evil Spider-man with teeth" kind of sums it up!

Correct. So what does that make a lazy derivation of said evil Spiderman? Well, it makes him Carnage. :sick:

Saying it is the best thing they've done with Brock in years, does that mean much?

I maintain there was a brief window where Venom was extremely cool and formidable. If anything, Brock is a victim of his own initial popularity.

Actually, check out the Venom episodes for Spectacular Spider-Man, now on Disney XD. Their version of Venom is wonderful and makes me sad to see what should have been in the comics.

Carnage exists, right or wrong, because Venom became too popular to remain a psycho stalker villain.

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Why do all of those Jeans have jazz hands?

They're not jazz hands. They're phoenix pimp slap hands. lol

I was looking back and wondered what was bothering me about 90's Jean. It's a great minimate, but she looks a little top heavy because of where her belt is and how it extends across the entire figure. Wouldn't it look better if there was a belt piece that went over the t top of the t-crotch piece like the new x-men belt piece or cyclops belt piece instead? Anyone see what I mean?

13831_184942618224_76429063224_2964.jpg

IIRC 90s Jean costume had the crotch blue colored thing ride high up on her hips like french cut bikinis. Maybe that's what they were going for there?

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I maintain there was a brief window where Venom was extremely cool and formidable. If anything, Brock is a victim of his own initial popularity.

Actually, check out the Venom episodes for Spectacular Spider-Man, now on Disney XD. Their version of Venom is wonderful and makes me sad to see what should have been in the comics.

Carnage exists, right or wrong, because Venom became too popular to remain a psycho stalker villain.

LOL! You cant use that children's cartoon to demonstrate Venom's coolness. Read the (as much as I hate him) McFarlane Spidey issues. Venom was cool as a villain. Trying to make him into some sort of Punisher is what made him suck. Carnage? The less said about him and the rest of the lame ass symbiotes the better. But, you are 100% correct about why he was created. Just like pro wresteling, the cool bad guy ALWAYS becomes a lame good guy.

Edited by Rheul
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Carnage? The less said about him and the rest of the lame ass symbiotes the better. But, you are 100% correct about why he was created. Just like pro wresteling, the cool bad guy ALWAYS becomes a lame good guy.

But, but... he led to creation of the greatest theme park superhero apocalypse EVER!!!

:lol:

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Just like pro wresteling, the cool bad guy ALWAYS becomes a lame good guy.

I guess this is a topic for another thread, but I blame WWE for that crap. Throughout the 80s, Ric Flair was consistently one of the most popular draws in the country, and if he ever turned "face" in WCW/NWA during that time, it was pretty much only in order to trick Sting. Now, you can predict, like clockwork, when the next "bad guy" will turn "good" (and vice versa, frankly). Real shame, if you ask me.

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I have never, EVER completely understood the reasoning behind making her Asian outside of Jim Lee felt like it. The first in story explanation was dumb, the second was dumb and convoluted. And yet it stuck.

I feel the same way about Cat-Beast. It was a dumb idea, done to placate a "name" artist. And yet it's stuck.

That always makes me think of that twisted toyfare issue where beast showed up in one frame with a thought bubble that said something like "A cat Morrison? Really?" His idea for mutants have an eventual 2nd mutation wasn't a bad idea, thats how angel got a healing factor. But it sucks because all the X writers after him dropped it and left it alone, leaving beast as a sad kitty.

Correct. So what does that make a lazy derivation of said evil Spiderman? Well, it makes him Carnage. :sick:

Saying it is the best thing they've done with Brock in years, does that mean much?

I maintain there was a brief window where Venom was extremely cool and formidable. If anything, Brock is a victim of his own initial popularity.

Actually, check out the Venom episodes for Spectacular Spider-Man, now on Disney XD. Their version of Venom is wonderful and makes me sad to see what should have been in the comics.

Carnage exists, right or wrong, because Venom became too popular to remain a psycho stalker villain.

Ok, Carnage may have come out of the fact that the venom symbiote was popular at the time and they wanted a symbiote on a bad guy and venom was going good. But he serves a bigger purpose in Spidey history. With all the cencorship of the time, and the fact that the spidey books were marketed more towards kids, the books were a lot like the animated series. Lots of conflict but not very much real violence. Carnage was a murderer straight and simple and that was the first time Spidey had to deal with people getting killed on that scale. The symbiote only made him a more creative killer. The Maximum Carnage story was frackin great, and it had a lot of great moments. So bash carnage all you want, but he killed people and had a great story.

You can try and make the same argument for the green goblin, but its not as good. Green goblin threw gwen stacy off a bridge, but she died from the fall? Lame. Sure he threw Swordsman out a window, but that was cheap crap. Norman osbourne should have stayed dead.

Carnage defense rant over.

Edited by arnim zola
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Blasphemer!

However, I just noticed the minimate Jean Grey doesn't have the blue stripes on her legs. Which, oddly enough, is possibly my most favourite part of that costume. Oh, well, nothing a simple dash of paint couldn't fix. Are those pouches on the side of her legs? My memory could be foggy, was this a common part of this specific costume? Idk how many subtle variations it's had...

Actually - i don't think the costume had blue patches on the outer thighs. they were usually just raised bumps that were the same colour as the rest of her legs . . . maybe a shade lighter or darker to give more definition.

http://6.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kr89mcJ4yj1qa4z9oo1_500.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/SDc...annyXMen308.jpg

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/x-men/1-1.jpg

http://www.annathegreatest.com/JeanGrey.jpg

EDIT: Actually - i take that back. i have found a picture of her with blue patches on the thighs. Sorry - my bad. i just didn't remember her having these.

http://www.freewebs.com/xxspicedxx/Jean-Grey-Card.jpg

Edited by Nessex
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EDIT: I would also happily take an 80's Brittish Psylocke in her pink puffy sleaves instead of Wolverine - but we all know DST would probably axe that idea.

I have never, EVER completely understood the reasoning behind making her Asian outside of Jim Lee felt like it. The first in story explanation was dumb, the second was dumb and convoluted. And yet it stuck.

I feel the same way about Cat-Beast. It was a dumb idea, done to placate a "name" artist. And yet it's stuck.

I grew up with Psylocke as a Japanese chick, so it's not one that i have questioned much - but i can understand how it might seem confusing/annoying because i completely agree with you about Beast. It kind of made evolutionary sense that he was some-what ape-like. And we already have SO many other cat like mutants: Feral, Thorne & to an extent, Sabretooth - plus other felanoid creatures like Tigra & Hepzibah (Originally meant to be a skunk like woman - she's also become more feline in recent years), not to mention people with cat-themed appearances or code names like Black Cat, Black Panther, ShadowCat, HellCat, etc . . . and that's just in the Marvel Universe.

At least he looked distinctive, i guess - but i'm hoping something happens down the track to take him back to his ape-man roots.

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