Classic X-Men and X-Factor boxsets!

[Lobsterman]

Has anyone heard when these are supposed to go up for preorder? The DST page about them implies they're available now, but AFX's site seems to have a differing opinion.

I'm hoping they do some kind of Express Pack with wave 31...

Edited August 17, 2009 by Lobsterman

[buttheadsmate]

I believe that the belt helps him to control his abilities.

I think that goes for just about all of us

[Nessex]

Ah ok!

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought maybe he'd fallen in with the WWE crowd.

(PS: After some digging on Wiki, it seems he had to wear it after his powers were tampered with by Loki.)

[karamazov80]

So Brohood:

Quicksilver

Mastermind

Scarlet Witch

Toad

Is that the main idea here?

I say replace Scarlet Witch with Blob, and release old-school Scarlet Witch in a TRU 2-pack with First Appearance Professor X (that way, DST can get people wanting to complete the box set to buy the 2-pack, but also those just wanting to complete an early Avengers team w/Witch and Pietro would have to buy it and the box set--so this would be my sneaky marketing move). But otherwise, yes.

Edited August 17, 2009 by karamazov80

[Mirymate]

Just a quick question: Is there any special story behing the chunky belt Iceman is wearing in the X-Factor box set? Did the X-Factor go up against Rocky & win in an early issue? Does the belt augment his powers? Or were the artists of the era just looking for a way to break up an essentially all white costume?

Oo! Oo! Obscure Marvel triva time!

K80 is right. Bobby had to wear the belt because he was insturmental in foiling one of Loki's schemes. Loki, being the sore loser that he is, vastly increased Bobby's powers beyond his ability to control. So Hank came up with the inhibitor belt to lower Bobby's powers to a point Bobby could handle them. Eventually Bobby got a handle on his increased powers and stopped wearing the belt. So it begs the question, is Bobby's pure ice form (for those who don't follow this suff religiously, Iceman now actually changes into ice, not just covers himself in an "ice armor") really a secondary mutation, or a direct result of Loki's curse? And was it luck of the draw that Bobby remained powered after M-Day, or is he still a mutant at all or a purely magical being? Not that it matters, no one at Marvel's current writers or editors acts like they remember it happened at all.

Also, Blob was only a member of Magneto's Brotherhood for one attack. Magneto threw some torpedos at the X-men while Blob was still engaged in fighting them, and hit Blob. Fred took offense to this and quit. Unus the Untouchable was a member of Magneto's Brotherhood for longer. Unus and Blob formered a partnership that lasted for years, and they worked for Magneto at some point, but I don't believe they were part of the Brotherhood then. Blob was a long standing member of Mystique's group, and later joined Toad's Brotherhood. Most animated and video game versions of the Brothehood have Magneto in charge and Blob as a member.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Mirymate

[karamazov80]

What you say is true re: Blob, but we need at least one comic Blob, and ideally, an old-school, 1960s Blob as well as a 1980s-era Blob with the bigger spandex outfit. I'm not sure if we would get a Kirby-esque Blob through means other than this kind of box set. Though Blob only briefly joined the Brotherhood, he is just slightly more well known than Unus (a character I could live with never getting a figure of), and is probably considered as having been member of the Brotherhood by more comic fans because of his reasonably iconic status, despite him only briefly being a member.

However, I would accept the conventional, original Brotherhood as a box set, if DST will give us a 1960s Blob/Mimic 2-pack.

Edited August 17, 2009 by karamazov80

[HRGMann]

Okay, my brain is getting fuzzy in old age... the Iceman/Loki thing, did that have soemthing to do with Maleketh, the Casket of Ancient Winters, and Ragnarok storylines that Uncle Walt Simonson did?

[Mirymate]

Okay, my brain is getting fuzzy in old age... the Iceman/Loki thing, did that have soemthing to do with Maleketh, the Casket of Ancient Winters, and Ragnarok storylines that Uncle Walt Simonson did?

It was Uncle Walt, looks like after the Casket as Thor already had a beard, but before Thor put on the cool scale mail armor. (Talk about a minimate I'd like to see: Thor in Simonson era Armor, but I digress) It was a bid to put the Frost giant's under Loki's control. And I was incorrect, the anti-mutant group The Right invented the belt as a general mutant power inhibiter weapon, which X-Factor modified to simple lower Bobby's powers to a level he could handle them. Uncle Walt was doing art chores on X-Factor at the time too.

To me, Blob is an iconic Brotherhood member, certainly moreso than Mastermind or Unus, and certainly one of the more visually interesting. I mean at the end of the day Mastermind is a rat-faced guy in a plain brown suit. And if you put out "apples to apples" with these two X-Men sets, with a "Silver Age Brotherhood" boxed set (say Quicksilver, Wanda, Toad and Mastermind) against a Freedom Force boxed set (Blob, Destiny, Avalanche, and Pyro) I am pretty sure I know which set will sell out and which will peg warm. So really, when the time comes for that Brotherhood boxed set, I would guess it will be a mix of eras.

[karamazov80]

And if you put out "apples to apples" with these two X-Men sets, with a "Silver Age Brotherhood" boxed set (say Quicksilver, Wanda, Toad and Mastermind) against a Freedom Force boxed set (Blob, Destiny, Avalanche, and Pyro) I am pretty sure I know which set will sell out and which will peg warm. So really, when the time comes for that Brotherhood boxed set, I would guess it will be a mix of eras.

I agree with you on that one. And much as I personally dig some of the really old-school Minimates, the wiser choice in terms of sales potential would be to go with the more visually exciting group. And that is definitely the Freedom Force, though I suspect we would get an updated Mystique over Destiny.

Unfortunately, Mastermind is pretty dull-looking, but he was such an important figure in the X-Men's history that I hope we get a version of him at some point (possibly with reversible head and alternate outfit, to transform him into Jason Wyngarde).

Edited August 18, 2009 by karamazov80

[buttheadsmate]

Unfortunately, Mastermind is pretty dull-looking, but he was such an important figure in the X-Men's history that I hope we get a version of him at some point (possibly with reversible head and alternate outfit, to transform him into Jason Wyngarde).

Until now I had never ever realised the link between the two 'Wyngardes' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(Jason_Wyngarde) Peter was a very famous & later infamous British actor who appeared in many 60/70s shows such as The Avengers & Department S but especially his own show Jason King. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wyngarde

I learn so much from Karamazov80 & Mirymate

[Rad]

mirymate, wasn't it Emma Frost who discovered Icemans true potential when she took over his mind? Sometime around the Scot Lobdell run on X-men as I recall. She took over his mind and then transformed into water and slid under a door to escape. Details are hazy. It was the 90's after all.

[HRGMann]

mirymate, wasn't it Emma Frost who discovered Icemans true potential when she took over his mind? Sometime around the Scot Lobdell run on X-men as I recall. She took over his mind and then transformed into water and slid under a door to escape. Details are hazy. It was the 90's after all.

Yes, Emma had her part in him going from covered in ice to all ice. Iceman was injured in some major battle, had a chunk of his chest torn out, and he was afraid to turn human, thinking the chunk would be missing from his human self. Later, Emma did commandeer his mind, did all kinds of icey-cool tricks, and (I think) told Iceman that he was much more powerful than he ever allowed himself to be.

[Mirymate]

though I suspect we would get an updated Mystique over Destiny.

What? You have something about remarkably shapely, nice legged, elderly blind women?

Unfortunately, Mastermind is pretty dull-looking, but he was such an important figure in the X-Men's history that I hope we get a version of him at some point (possibly with reversible head and alternate outfit, to transform him into Jason Wyngarde).

Oh I agree. Mastermind is historically one of the X-Men's most important foes. But his most interesting look is the Hellfire Club "costume", which is essentially a guy dresses like a dandy. Also not a real kid friendly design, which probably explains why he's never made it into any of the various X-Men toy lines. But for as a collector-centric exclusive, maybe a Hellfire Inner Circle boxed set might work. (I'd go Shaw, Selene, Pierce, and Wyngarde, since you already have a White Queen) But of course, the likely hood of this happening rides strongly on that Infinity Guanlet set doing well.

mirymate, wasn't it Emma Frost who discovered Icemans true potential when she took over his mind? Sometime around the Scot Lobdell run on X-men as I recall. She took over his mind and then transformed into water and slid under a door to escape. Details are hazy. It was the 90's after all.

Yes, Emma had her part in him going from covered in ice to all ice. Iceman was injured in some major battle, had a chunk of his chest torn out, and he was afraid to turn human, thinking the chunk would be missing from his human self. Later, Emma did commandeer his mind, did all kinds of icey-cool tricks, and (I think) told Iceman that he was much more powerful than he ever allowed himself to be.

Mikael Rasputin (Peter's wacky, kinda evil older brother) also played a role in Bobby realizing his potential, as he was the first person to show Bobby he could become pure ice. Bobby had started experimenting with his powers after that. And then Emma possessed him and really showed everyone how powerful Bobby could be. But this all happened long after the incident with Loki. And that whole incident has been largely forgotten by modern writers and readers. But Bobby's powers were magically increased, they've yet to retcon around it (mostly, like I said, cause they forgot it happened) and I hope that someday they remember and explore the idea again.

[karamazov80]

What? You have something about remarkably shapely, nice legged, elderly blind women?

There is nothing I hate more

But for as a collector-centric exclusive, maybe a Hellfire Inner Circle boxed set might work. (I'd go Shaw, Selene, Pierce, and Wyngarde, since you already have a White Queen)

Similar to the Freedom Force w/Mystique, I bet that any Hellfire Club set would include another White Queen. Not that I necessarily want another one, but I think DST knows that that would be a big selling point. Though the Infinity Gauntlet set doesn't have a Wolverine exactly, fans do know and like Thanos. Apart from Frost, the next most well-known Hellfire Club member is probably Shaw, and I suspect that there is a pretty steep drop in popularity from number 1 to number 2.

Edited August 18, 2009 by karamazov80

[Mirymate]

Similar to the Freedom Force w/Mystique, I bet that any Hellfire Club set would include another White Queen. Not that I necessarily want another one, but I think DST knows that that would be a big selling point. Though the Infinity Gauntlet set doesn't have a Wolverine exactly, fans do know and like Thanos. Apart from Frost, the next most well-known Hellfire Club member is probably Shaw, and I suspect that there is a pretty steep drop in popularity from number 1 to number 2.

You're probably right on a second Emma, so I'd drop Peirce. I keep bringing up the IG set because to my eye, it's the most purely collector centric set I've seen. Most of the other sets either feature very popular characters like the X-men or Spider-Man, or are based on a very current story arcs or movies... and still include a popular character. Thanos is the best known from the IG set, followed by Mephisto. And the story line is over a decade old. I really believe that if this sells well, the door will be cracked open a bit wider in terms of character selection.

But I am wondering, if some of you "older" MMMV'ers might know, why the apparent four figure limit? They did a 5 pack for Spider-man Classics, so why now do we have to buy the Angel in separate packs instead of making both X-sets 5 packs? Has any reason ever been given for this?

[karamazov80]

They have said (don't know if it was a blog Q&A or a convention Q&A) that the 4 pack is just the new standard for box sets. As you note, we have had a few 5 packs (Spidey set, Zombies set, and the initial TRU sets), and the Giant Sized X-Men set actually had 6 figures, but unless things change, 4-packs are what we can expect from here on out. I'm guessing their ability to charge roughly the same amount for 1 less figure played more than a small role in this decision.

Edited August 18, 2009 by karamazov80

[buttheadsmate]

I would imagine that 4 figures hit some pre- determined affordable price rather than 5 figures which slide over it.

[Onyx_6]

I would imagine that 4 figures hit some pre- determined affordable price rather than 5 figures which slide over it.

I would agree. Most likely production costs went up and they did not want to raise the cost of a set too much from what they were charging. Cut a character = maintain a profit = DST continues making the characters we love sooooo much.

[Nessex]

But this all happened long after the incident with Loki. And that whole incident has been largely forgotten by modern writers and readers. But Bobby's powers were magically increased, they've yet to retcon around it (mostly, like I said, cause they forgot it happened) and I hope that someday they remember and explore the idea again.

It was breifly re-addressed in the Mutant X spin off where that universes version of Bobby couldn't touch anyone for fear of freezing/killing them after his powers being messed with by Loki.

Although you would be forgiven for forgetting that series - i think most people tried to.

EDIT: And it's a shame we'll probably never see Mastermind or Destiny. I know them both as pretty important characters to the X-Men books. . . but i guess they aren't big enough in the overall universe? Still - we got Spymaster. It might be more a case of my own ignorance, but i hadn't heard of him till i bought a MiniMate of him. Maybe we'll get a Destiny packed with Space Armour Wolverine? (Don't laugh - he's worn it ni the comics, so it could happen!)

Edited August 19, 2009 by Nessex

[Mirymate]

And it's a shame we'll probably never see Mastermind or Destiny. I know them both as pretty important characters to the X-Men books. . . but i guess they aren't big enough in the overall universe? Still - we got Spymaster. It might be more a case of my own ignorance, but i hadn't heard of him till i bought a MiniMate of him. Maybe we'll get a Destiny packed with Space Armour Wolverine? (Don't laugh - he's worn it ni the comics, so it could happen!)

I don't think it's oscurity that's holding them back per-say. Destiny and her diaries get a mention at least once a quarter in various X-books. And most long term X-fans remember the Dark Phoenix saga and "that guy that made her the Black Queen" even if they don't remember to equate him with the rat-faced fella in the brown suit. But neither are really visually interesting, or have really action oriented abilities. So when put up against characters like Sabretooth, or Juggernaught, or Spymaster, they tend to loose out. Now if we're talking about wave 43, the odds increase dramatically that we'll somebody paired with Space suit Wolverine... but it'll be Holocaust instead of Destiny.

[Nessex]

Awww . . . i'd sell my ex's record collection for a Holocaust minimate. But that's a post for another time

Destiny was pretty distinctive looking - but as far as playability goes, she's not high on most kids lists - so i have to agree with you there

[funkguerilla]

mirymate, wasn't it Emma Frost who discovered Icemans true potential when she took over his mind? Sometime around the Scot Lobdell run on X-men as I recall. She took over his mind and then transformed into water and slid under a door to escape. Details are hazy. It was the 90's after all.

Yes, Emma had her part in him going from covered in ice to all ice. Iceman was injured in some major battle, had a chunk of his chest torn out, and he was afraid to turn human, thinking the chunk would be missing from his human self. Later, Emma did commandeer his mind, did all kinds of icey-cool tricks, and (I think) told Iceman that he was much more powerful than he ever allowed himself to be.

Actually you have that backwards. Not to get all detail nerdy on you, but:

In Uncanny #314 (ish), Emma Frost, who was in a coma, commandeers Iceman's body and does a bunch of tricks that Bobby never thought of: Flying, becoming mist, adjusting his outer appearance (I believe), ect.

Then, a few years later in X-Men #50, Bobby woke up after being abducted in the middle of the night by Post only to find that he was missing a big chunk of his chest. A few months later he tracked down Emma to help him change back into a person because she was able to do more with his powers than he ever could. And after you're typical Emma Frost Tough Love session, Bobby was able to transform to a human all by his lonesome.

Then years later Chuck Austen came along and made Iceman pure ice and at one point had him reconstitute himself after Havok peed on him. Good times!

[Mirymate]

Actually you have that backwards. Not to get all detail nerdy on you, but:

That's okay, detail nerdy is my specialty... But if you want to get all issue numbery:

Thor v1 #377 - Loki increases Bobby's powers beyond his ability to control

X-Factor v1 #23 - The Right attacks X-Factor and put the inhibitor belt on Bobby, inadvertently doing him a favor.

X-Factor #70 / Uncanny X-Men v1 #281 - the belt disappears without explaination. Apparently he just didn't need it anymore.

Uncanny X-Men #291-292 - Mikhail Rasputin uses his energy/matter manipulation powers to show Bobby his true potential. Bobby transforms into pure ice for the first time.

Uncanny X-Men #300 - Bobby started experimenting with his powers and tried adding bulk and/or spikes to himself. Most sites I've consulted consider Iceman as transforming into ice from this point on as oppossed to just iceing up. The issue itself isn't completely clear.

Uncanny X-Men #311-314 - The Emma Frost possession incident.

X-Men second series #50 - Post blasts a hole in Bobby. All the way through Bobby.

Uncanny X-Men #331 - Emma's tough love lesson that allows Bobby to overcome his self impossed limiations, repair his chest, and change back to normal.

Uncanny X-Men #410-413 - Black Tom goes all plant-thing and puches a fresh hole in Bobby's chest.

Uncanny X-Men #415 - Bobby fixes the hole again, but this time finds he cannot transform the affected areas back to flesh and blood. Over the next few issues the condition slowly spreads across his chest. The idea is floated that eventually Bobby will be all ice, unable to change back to human form at all. Apparently they felt he needed angst.

M-Day - Bobby looks like he's lost his powers completely, but he hasn't. He does appear to have control over his transformations again, and they quit talking about him permanently becoming ice. Apparently the need for agnst was overated.

And I think that pretty well covers the what happened when with Iceman's powers. I avoided Austen's run personally, so I can't speak to any interactions with bodily fluids. But considering the writer I wouldn't put it past him. I figure Austen has some pretty good blackmail photos of editors of several comics companies, otherwise I can't see how he keeps getting work.

*Edit: In the cold light of morning, I want to say I was not trying to come across as a know-it-all (well no more than normal) or busting anyones' chops. But I felt that we were starting to overlap and confusing ourselves and broke out the issue numbers and such just for clarities sake.

(used uncannyxmen.net and marvel.wika.com to get the exact issue information, always site your sources, kids.)

Edited August 20, 2009 by Mirymate

[funkguerilla]

Actually you have that backwards. Not to get all detail nerdy on you, but:

In the cold light of morning, I want to say I was not trying to come across as a know-it-all (well no more than normal) or busting anyones' chops. But I felt that we were starting to overlap and confusing ourselves and broke out the issue numbers and such just for clarities sake.

I thought it was great. I'm a big proponent of geek checks, the more you know, you know.

[EricM]

No interest in the classic set but that X-Factor set looks nice. I'll be picking up that X-Factor Angel set anyway since I want Warpath.