MisterPL Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 No pants on Ben Grimm?! Everyone knows Ben didn't grow out of his conveniently super-elastic underpants! Cover that Thing up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Apparently the tone was inspired by David Cronenberg films. Could you be further removed from the essence of the Fantastic Four than David freaking Cronenberg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politician Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry. What I meant to say was: Containment suits?! No superhero costumes?! Spandex or GTFO. Casting a hot girl as an invisible character? Oh, yeah. Brilliant strategy there. Thing looks totally CG and CG suuxxxxx so EPIC FAIL!!!1!! Johnny Storm IS NOT BLACK!!! Period. Never ever ever ever. Oh, look! Fox is doing an Interstellar sequel for morons! Why is there a Marvel logo on this piece of crappy crap?! It sounds like you have money riding on this or something. Here's my gripes, feel free to strike them down with that reddit humor. FF is an afterthought in this movie. It's Chronicle with Marvel trademarks. A property should not be regulated to fit with an existing idea that's already been done, by this exact director. It's more of the same which would be fine as Chronicle 2, not FF. The cast was compromised when the director casted his friends and not the best possible actors, which is fine if it was admitted that he did so instead of trying to say these are the best actors for the job. And yes it does borrow a lot from Nolan, this movie doesn't feel original, it feels like an experiment instead of a well thought out idea and execution. So the director reads one or two issues of Ultimates, tells the cast not to bother and we get a loose adaptation of FF. Say what you want and enjoy the movie but don't put your arguments as to why OTHERS don't like it in the words of a 13 year old, that's tacky. EDIT: http://youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D_flR9_6msik&start1=0&video2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3WzHXI5HizQ&start2=0&authorName= Lmao come on Edited January 27, 2015 by Politician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youbastards Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 People are speculating on other forums that William Stryker is one of the men sitting at the table, and that he will be Fox's attempt to hint toward a shared X-Men/Fantastic Four universe. Apparently the tone was inspired by David Cronenberg films. Could you be further removed from the essence of the Fantastic Four than David freaking Cronenberg?David Lynch? I'm sorry. What I meant to say was: Containment suits?! No superhero costumes?! Spandex or GTFO. Casting a hot girl as an invisible character? Oh, yeah. Brilliant strategy there. Thing looks totally CG and CG suuxxxxx so EPIC FAIL!!!1!! Johnny Storm IS NOT BLACK!!! Period. Never ever ever ever. Oh, look! Fox is doing an Interstellar sequel for morons! Why is there a Marvel logo on this piece of crappy crap?! Fantastic Four? More like Dramatic Four, amiright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 This, like the 3rd dark knight movie, like the resident evil movies, and even X-3, are all just fanfic films. Its disappointing for everyone because this is something that could easily had been out years ago. But now that marvel movies have consistently shown these can be great while sticking to the source material, its a step backwards for super hero movies to have something with such a great history that should be getting good movies like the marvel studios movies to be rebooted and ignore all the stuff that makes them great. Johnny storm isnt black, kingpin isnt black, deadshot isn't black. Will smith was offered the role of superman once and declined saying you dont mess with white peoples superheroes. Then he made Hancock. Any character with years of history should have his skin color up and changed just to draw in new audiences or because someone who wants to play him is friends with the director (which if true just blows my mind). I'd like to play black goliath in the civil war movie, but Im not black. Though I suppose they could just call me that because I wear a black jumpsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politician Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 This, like the 3rd dark knight movie, like the resident evil movies, and even X-3, are all just fanfic films. Its disappointing for everyone because this is something that could easily had been out years ago. But now that marvel movies have consistently shown these can be great while sticking to the source material, its a step backwards for super hero movies to have something with such a great history that should be getting good movies like the marvel studios movies to be rebooted and ignore all the stuff that makes them great. Johnny storm isnt black, kingpin isnt black, deadshot isn't black. Will smith was offered the role of superman once and declined saying you dont mess with white peoples superheroes. Then he made Hancock. Any character with years of history should have his skin color up and changed just to draw in new audiences or because someone who wants to play him is friends with the director (which if true just blows my mind). I'd like to play black goliath in the civil war movie, but Im not black. Though I suppose they could just call me that because I wear a black jumpsuit. “Nothing is real. Everyone knows [Josh Trank and I are] good friends. It’s something that if it happened I would be ecstatic,” says Jordan, giving a big wink. “I’d love to be a part of it.” “That wink was off the record,” he then laughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Man thats the point right there. All these comic based movies are doing really well showing off the source material and proving it works, then these guys take something with all that history and say, "you know, I bet the real FF fans dont want to see another movie like these marvel films, I bet they would love something different that included characters they love, we will totally stand out and change the face of superhero movies with this!" You'd think after X-3 and the first wolverine movie they would have learned something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If race is not a critical component of a character and context, it should not be treated like one. For the Fantastic Four, I've never looked at them and thought, "This only works if these guys are white." I'm an FF fan, and I have absolutely zero problem with Johnny Storm being black because, again, his color has not ever really been a big part of his character. He needs to be brash and cocky. His skin color just isn't even issue, and we should stop making it one. He can be any color he wants. And If not being racist makes me not a real Fantastic Four fan, then I guess I'm just not a real FF fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Two-Face Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Only issue I have with Johnny is that it forces the unnecessary "Sue is adopted" plot point. Totally out of left field. And Michael Clark Duncan was the PERFECT Kingpin, for the record, just like Idris Elba is a good Heimdall. Movie looks better than it sounds, but a trailer can make any piece of shit shiny and gussied up. I like Miles Teller, I like Kate Mara, I even like Michael B Jordan to an extent. Cast isn't the problem and I get the Ultimate origin. Problem is all of the other changes being made, from Sue and Johnny, to Doom being a hacker. With a somehow worse costume than before. Tone is all wrong too. They're Marvel's First Family. I'm not watching F4 for Nolan-levels of grit. Could be a decent Sci Fi flick, should be a terrible F4 flick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politician Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 And If not being racist makes me not a real Fantastic Four fan, then I guess I'm just not a real FF fan. Whoa whoa whoa so the people that aren't happy with the casting choice, are racist? And all real FF fans are racist? What kind of shit is this? The issue is that he was only cast because he's close friends with the director, he wouldn't have been considered otherwise. The cast was compromised to cater to the director and he chose his friends instead of better actors. It's frustrating that despite the director saying he's a FF fan that so much of the material is deviated and changed to fit his narrative and not the source material when clearly it can be done and done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I get very sick of people saying that real FF fans don't tolerate this change, and I hear that a lot. The guy's a fine actor, and I think he is specifically a fine actor to play the part of Johnny Storm. You see the cast as being compromised to fit this actor. I don't. Because race is not a major component of Johnny's character, I don't see it as a big deal. If simply changing his skin color is such a big deal, then maybe there's more to it than a vague "compromise." I don't know. I just don't think it should be a big deal. And I've yet to see a solid complaint about Michael B. Jordan's actual ability to act and his ability to portray the bravado of Johnny Storm, which is what we should be talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politician Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe fans don't like that established characters with a 40+ year history are being changed because some hack director who made a found-footage movie that did well on DVD and Redbox, casted his close, personal friends instead of actors who might have been better suited for the roles. That's called compromise. And you know what? I get very sick of people insinuating that people that are against this are labelled "racist" by people like yourself which is ignorant as hell. You want to defend his casting? Cool, but by making blanket statements like calling FF fans racist invalidates most of what you say because it's very difficult to take anyone serious that believes that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (I regurgitate a handful of common grievances I've been reading for months and suddenly I've got money riding on this flick.) I'm just trying to reconcile all the prejudice against this movie. "It's Chronicle with Marvel trademarks." Why's that exactly? Because of what was seen in the trailer or because of what you've been reading on fan sites for over a year? "A property should not be regulated to fit with an existing idea that's already been done, by this exact director." So you'd prefer a straight-up adaptation of a comic book tale? IE - an existing idea that's already been done? "EDIT: http://youtubedouble...2=0&authorName= Lmao come on" Yes. A sci-fi movie about astronauts looks an awful lot like another sci-fi movie about astronauts. With corn. Just add gorillas and they're both knock-offs of Planet of the Apes. "It's frustrating that despite the director saying he's a FF fan that so much of the material is deviated and changed to fit his narrative and not the source material when clearly it can be done and done well." I expect you're equally frustrated with the lack of Tony Stark's alcoholism and Dr. Donald Blake getting side-lined as Thor's alter ego and Hulk being green instead of gray if only for a little while. (Because skin color matters!) "Apparently the tone was inspired by David Cronenberg films. Could you be further removed from the essence of the Fantastic Four than David freaking Cronenberg?" Cronenberg certainly fits with the theme of transformation in this origin story. "Fantastic Four? More like Dramatic Four, amiright?" If people would rather see the Comedic Four, that's fine. But I'm pretty sure that's been done. Personally I've found that drama helps to contrast humor. If this trailer had been played for yuks, showcasing the hilarity of a guy turning to stone or the merriment of somebody becoming part barbecue, it wouldn't have distanced itself much from the previous franchise. "This, like the 3rd dark knight movie, like the resident evil movies, and even X-3, are all just fanfic films." Unless the studio somehow gets the orginal creators on board, they're all fanfic. Tim Burton got Bob Kane to sign off on the 1989 Batman film (especially the all-black costume). Josh Trank got Stan Lee's blessing on this. Some of the best stories I've read aren't by the creators of a franchise (Stan Lee, Bill Finger) but by fans inspired by the material (Frank Miller, Denny O'Neill). "...marvel movies have consistently shown these can be great while sticking to the source material..." Not really. Marvel movies have found a successful formula despite not adhering slavishly to the source material. Make sure the hero fights his evil doppleganger (Iron Man vs. Iron Monger, Hulk vs. Abomination, Cap vs. Red Skull, etc...) and cherry pick whatever you like while changing the rest. Dark and gritty is all well and good for Age of Ultron, the sequel to a movie that arguably set the bar for comic book movies, but drama's a no-no in a 90-second trailer that's supposed to make you forget about the last two FF flicks. (Unless those were your cup of tea, of course.) It's okay if Tony Stark creates Ultron instead of Hank Pym but we can't change the color of Johnny's skin. Bottom line: There's a lot of pre-hate for this movie and much of it is based on rumors spread long before we saw a frame of official footage. Now that the teaser's here, I'm seeing an awful lot of naysayers changing their tunes. I expect to see even more by the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stack32 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 There's also a lot of hate for the movie based specifically on the comments from the director and actors involved. But if you're determined to twist any criticisms to make them seem silly I guess you could miss that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Two-Face Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For the record, I don't remember anyone being okay with Stark being the one who creates Ultron and not Pym. In fact, all i remember is lots of hope that Pym would show up in a flashback being the original creator. But changing what character built something, and the race of one character but not the race of his sister are fairly different things. Quite frankly, the trailer tells us nothing anyway and barely looks like an F4 trailer, so I'm not sure where this tune changing comes from. It just doesn't "feel" like F4 from the little bit we've seen and the LOT we've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnim zola Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 First off when you say it like that it sounds ridiculous. And for marvels doppelganger formula, marvel studios is just using the source materials that have worked for so long. And for Hank Pym being old and not a founding avenger/wasp samesies /Tony and banner creating ultron is NOT ok to me. It might come out cool and maybe Pym lays the groundwork for Tony, but it's still not ok. This FF4 movie might come out cool but it's not going to matter since they won't be in Infinity War where they belong. Also Johnny Storm is white and not black. And I'm only saying that because of racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Politician Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 MIsterPL- Wow In no particular order.. -It's not THAT they changed Storm's skin color, it's WHY they did. -It doesn't bother me that Tony isn't an alcoholic because that's one storyline out of one hundred. I won't even go into the terrible analogy of Hulk as that's race baiting and very weak of you. -I'm not basing any of this on fan sites or speculation as you'd hope. No I'm basing this off the trailer and the comments of the cast and director. -And you're damn right I'd like to see a good adaptation of an already good comic story. Who wouldn't? Not everyone has read EVERY comic, and these stories would be great on film. Sorry if you can't see that. -Yes this is Chronicle with FF slapped on. There seems to be little effort to hide that more than ever since the trailer debuted. Like I said, enjoy the movie and have fun but this damage control and your portrayal of the non-believes of this movie are weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe fans don't like that established characters with a 40+ year history are being changed because some hack director who made a found-footage movie that did well on DVD and Redbox, casted his close, personal friends instead of actors who might have been better suited for the roles. That's called compromise. And you know what? I get very sick of people insinuating that people that are against this are labelled "racist" by people like yourself which is ignorant as hell. You want to defend his casting? Cool, but by making blanket statements like calling FF fans racist invalidates most of what you say because it's very difficult to take anyone serious that believes that. I'm not calling FF fans racist. I did not say that. I am an FF fan, and still don't see what the big deal is. I've read a lot today and in the past months about how "real FF fans" shouldn't tolerate this change. Again, if you have a problem with the actor, state it with specificity. Talk about his acting ability. But for some reason, that's not what people talk about. They talk about vague things like comprising to cast a friend. Without ever saying how that is a compromise. Very little mention of Jordan's ability to act, to portray Johnny, to show his level of fun cockiness. Can he do all that? Sure. So what exactly is the compromise? Is it that Sue is adopted in the movie? Is it that 40+ years of history have changed for a movie? If that's true, you must hate pretty much every comic movie made, since they have ask changed 40+ years of history.Look, I'm sure you're a good guy, so I think we should probably drop this. My comments were initially written after reading comments sections elsewhere that were pretty serious about how "real FF fans" shouldn't let a black guy play Johnny. They were unquestionably racist comments. You are right to say that I shouldn't make a blanket statement, but so much of what I've seen has boiled down to "I'm angry that a black man is playing a white character." It got under my skin to see my geeky brethren behave that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadpool Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 cant wait to see more of Michael B Jordan as Human Torch, dudes a great talent and totally fits the part The trailer has me more excited than the bits of info we had gotten prior. So far my only big gripe is the teaser obviously didnt have any store context or character interactions and that the "containment suits" seem a bit uninspired, its fine that they dont match the comics but i feel there were better design choices out there. Excited to see Doom now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJohnson Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Without seeing the movie, I don't understand how this new FF can be characterized as "Chronicle with FF slapped on." Because...same director? That's just not objective, and can't be taken seriously. And if it does turn out to be Chronicle-esque, so what? As has been noted, the FF have been around for 40+ years. There have been a lot of different takes and styles of stories written with them. Some of them have replaced members, even the whole team. Some fun, some serious, the costumes have changed. What the best FF stories get right is that, regardless of who is in the group, is that this group is a FAMILY. The boundaries of science are pushed into DISCOVERY. And that discovery leads to HIGH ADVENTURE. If this movie does that, but happens to be shot like Chronicle (which from the trailer it isn't), how can it not be an FF movie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karamazov80 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) David Lynch?That would actually be an easier sell for me! Would still be weird and inappropriate (redundant to say that about Lynch), but Lynch often injected an odd form of humor into the bizarre. Cronenberg. . .not so much. "Apparently the tone was inspired by David Cronenberg films. Could you be further removed from the essence of the Fantastic Four than David freaking Cronenberg?" Cronenberg certainly fits with the theme of transformation in this origin story. That's true, but that doesn't have anything to do with tone. Cronenberg's films are like nightmares come to life, characters confronting the uncomfortable dark realities of life as he seems to see it, including sexuality and reproduction, sense of self, violence, and trauma. That ain't no FF I know. Cronenberg's X-Men, I could see. Edited January 28, 2015 by karamazov80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessex Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have never read a Fantastic 4 comic... so i have no investment in what it means to be a F4 'fan'. As an outsider, this film looks like fun. I'll watch it. The only things that puzzle me based on my admittedly limited understanding of the F4 are: 1) they're often referred as the 'First family of comics' or something similar. That dynamic always sounded interesting and i wonder if that will be present in the film? 2) As a family, i always felt like the characters would be older. I thought that the last two films suffered a little from having actors that were too young player Sue & Reed - these actors look even younger & i wonder if that will hurt the feeling of the film more? Like i said, these are just casual observations from a non-fan. Otherwise, i'm quite excited to see what they bring to the screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There's also a lot of hate for the movie based specifically on the comments from the director and actors involved. But if you're determined to twist any criticisms to make them seem silly I guess you could miss that too. When the comments are taken out of context and twisted to suit a prejudice, opinions based upon them deserve to be ridiculed, especially when they were formed long before a frame of footage was seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPL Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 MIsterPL- Wow In no particular order.. -It's not THAT they changed Storm's skin color, it's WHY they did. -It doesn't bother me that Tony isn't an alcoholic because that's one storyline out of one hundred. I won't even go into the terrible analogy of Hulk as that's race baiting and very weak of you. -I'm not basing any of this on fan sites or speculation as you'd hope. No I'm basing this off the trailer and the comments of the cast and director. -And you're damn right I'd like to see a good adaptation of an already good comic story. Who wouldn't? Not everyone has read EVERY comic, and these stories would be great on film. Sorry if you can't see that. -Yes this is Chronicle with FF slapped on. There seems to be little effort to hide that more than ever since the trailer debuted. Like I said, enjoy the movie and have fun but this damage control and your portrayal of the non-believes of this movie are weak. Weak criticisms don't require very strong rebuttals. In all fairness, I didn't see Chronicle. I've seen the trailers, though, and they look nothing like the FF teaser. No shaky camera movement, no juvenile discovery of super powers, just one common actor. All I'm saying is to give the movie a chance before deciding that it'll give audiences eye cancer. Simple. Fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 David Lynch?That would actually be an easier sell for me! Would still be weird and inappropriate (redundant to say that about Lynch), but Lynch often injected an odd form of humor into the bizarre. Cronenberg. . .not so much. >"Apparently the tone was inspired by David Cronenberg films. Could you be further removed from the essence of the Fantastic Four than David freaking Cronenberg?" Cronenberg certainly fits with the theme of transformation in this origin story. That's true, but that doesn't have anything to do with tone. Cronenberg's films are like nightmares come to life, characters confronting the uncomfortable dark realities of life as he seems to see it, including sexuality and reproduction, sense of self, violence, and trauma. That ain't no FF I know. Cronenberg's X-Men, I could see. I can see how Cronenberg's influence can be off-putting for the FF, but I think it's worth considering that this isn't actually a Cronenberg film. It's a Trank film with stylistic elements inspired by Cronenberg, who is, IMO, a master of sci-fi story telling, albeit a darker sci-fi than some may like. I think of The Fly, and I can't help but see that that is actually a pretty good starting place for a modern FF story- teleportation experiment gone awry with disastrous results and all that. But I'm not going to lie, the thought that we might be getting a good sci-fi film out of this rather than another superhero action spectacle is welcome. I hope it's not too dark, and that is one area where even I will admit that it may have a problem, but I'm still optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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