BSG Minimates cancelled

[Dan]

Retail exclusives would be great. If 3 companies could pick up a boxed set each then we could get a decent group of mates out.

New Caprica

Starbuck

Tigh

Ellen

Leobin

Cylons

Cavil

Simon

Aaron

D'Anna

Fleet

Anders

Tory

Dress Hotdog

Athena

(Spare Racetrack head)

Then if we're lucky a Lampkin/Pres Adama 2 pack.

I know that this is wishful thinking, and I may get slated for that, but sometimes you have to roll the hard six.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Dan

[infallible]

This is just heart-breaking. Especially since had the line ended after the next two waves, then things could be considered somewhat complete.

I can't say whose fault all this is, but I'm losing a lot of faith in MiniMates as a line. After losing LotR, DC, 24, Rocky, Star Trek, and BSG, I'm just not sure I want to keep going with things outside of Marvel. I mean, I invest a lot of excitement and spirit into these lines, only to have them cut off midway through while still very incomplete. Not to mention the money I put in. I have no desire to display an incomplete line. At least with Trek, we got the entire TOS bridge crew, but what do I care about just displaying a Sisko or Picard? It makes me feel like I've wasted my money on these lines when there's no commitment to get them complete.

I get that DST has to make ends meet, and maybe I should appreciate what I get, but I'm not in it to be a guinea pig for lines. Take the money that goes into dead ends like Silence of the Lambs or the Man with No Name or most all of these other movie lines, and put it into lines like BSG or Trek. It just feels like they'd rather halfway do a bunch of lines than go whole hog with a few.

Ugh, I guess I'm just having trouble with the whole situation, and it's shaking my foundation in 'Mates as a whole. I've been buying these dudes since 3" Trek, so I'm not a fairweather fan, either.

[buttheadsmate]

You are not alone.

[winkerbean]

You are not alone.

I am here with you......

[mav-man]

This is just heart-breaking. Especially since had the line ended after the next two waves, then things could be considered somewhat complete.

I can't say whose fault all this is, but I'm losing a lot of faith in MiniMates as a line. After losing LotR, DC, 24, Rocky, Star Trek, and BSG, I'm just not sure I want to keep going with things outside of Marvel. I mean, I invest a lot of excitement and spirit into these lines, only to have them cut off midway through while still very incomplete. Not to mention the money I put in. I have no desire to display an incomplete line. At least with Trek, we got the entire TOS bridge crew, but what do I care about just displaying a Sisko or Picard? It makes me feel like I've wasted my money on these lines when there's no commitment to get them complete.

I get that DST has to make ends meet, and maybe I should appreciate what I get, but I'm not in it to be a guinea pig for lines. Take the money that goes into dead ends like Silence of the Lambs or the Man with No Name or most all of these other movie lines, and put it into lines like BSG or Trek. It just feels like they'd rather halfway do a bunch of lines than go whole hog with a few.

Ugh, I guess I'm just having trouble with the whole situation, and it's shaking my foundation in 'Mates as a whole. I've been buying these dudes since 3" Trek, so I'm not a fairweather fan, either.

You totally summed up how I feel also.

[captain_cbecker]

This is just heart-breaking. Especially since had the line ended after the next two waves, then things could be considered somewhat complete.

I can't say whose fault all this is, but I'm losing a lot of faith in MiniMates as a line. After losing LotR, DC, 24, Rocky, Star Trek, and BSG, I'm just not sure I want to keep going with things outside of Marvel. I mean, I invest a lot of excitement and spirit into these lines, only to have them cut off midway through while still very incomplete. Not to mention the money I put in. I have no desire to display an incomplete line. At least with Trek, we got the entire TOS bridge crew, but what do I care about just displaying a Sisko or Picard? It makes me feel like I've wasted my money on these lines when there's no commitment to get them complete.

I get that DST has to make ends meet, and maybe I should appreciate what I get, but I'm not in it to be a guinea pig for lines. Take the money that goes into dead ends like Silence of the Lambs or the Man with No Name or most all of these other movie lines, and put it into lines like BSG or Trek. It just feels like they'd rather halfway do a bunch of lines than go whole hog with a few.

Ugh, I guess I'm just having trouble with the whole situation, and it's shaking my foundation in 'Mates as a whole. I've been buying these dudes since 3" Trek, so I'm not a fairweather fan, either.

Agreed -

I don't know if DST isn't spending enough effort marketing or finding the right retail channels, or if there is really just no interest in these products. This problem doesn't seem limited to minimates though - since a similar problem occurred with the AA Enterprise 7" characters... 1/2 through a complete set, fans are dangling without principal characters - in some cases there was a build-a bridge set and they aborted before completing, leaving fans with about 3/5 of a Enterprise bridge. Though I am not a completist, in terms of a full product line, I am a completist with regard to things like bridge crews and the BSG cast. I have diligently been out there placing pre-orders as early as possible, in order to make sure that I can get sets to complete my collections. I kinda feel hosed on this so close to the end and likewise with only Picard to show for TNG, Sisko for DS9 and Kirk & Scotty for TWOK.

I find it funny that the original announcements hinted that the line wasn't complete w/o the cylons - but as they're spinning their answers in the Q & A, they really think they've done a good job of rounding out the cast...

I really hope they can rescue at least the cylons at Toyfair.

[Twisted Two-Face]

This is just heart-breaking. Especially since had the line ended after the next two waves, then things could be considered somewhat complete.

I can't say whose fault all this is, but I'm losing a lot of faith in MiniMates as a line. After losing LotR, DC, 24, Rocky, Star Trek, and BSG, I'm just not sure I want to keep going with things outside of Marvel. I mean, I invest a lot of excitement and spirit into these lines, only to have them cut off midway through while still very incomplete. Not to mention the money I put in. I have no desire to display an incomplete line. At least with Trek, we got the entire TOS bridge crew, but what do I care about just displaying a Sisko or Picard? It makes me feel like I've wasted my money on these lines when there's no commitment to get them complete.

I get that DST has to make ends meet, and maybe I should appreciate what I get, but I'm not in it to be a guinea pig for lines. Take the money that goes into dead ends like Silence of the Lambs or the Man with No Name or most all of these other movie lines, and put it into lines like BSG or Trek. It just feels like they'd rather halfway do a bunch of lines than go whole hog with a few.

Ugh, I guess I'm just having trouble with the whole situation, and it's shaking my foundation in 'Mates as a whole. I've been buying these dudes since 3" Trek, so I'm not a fairweather fan, either.

Agreed -

I don't know if DST isn't spending enough effort marketing or finding the right retail channels, or if there is really just no interest in these products. This problem doesn't seem limited to minimates though - since a similar problem occurred with the AA Enterprise 7" characters... 1/2 through a complete set, fans are dangling without principal characters - in some cases there was a build-a bridge set and they aborted before completing, leaving fans with about 3/5 of a Enterprise bridge. Though I am not a completist, in terms of a full product line, I am a completist with regard to things like bridge crews and the BSG cast. I have diligently been out there placing pre-orders as early as possible, in order to make sure that I can get sets to complete my collections. I kinda feel hosed on this so close to the end and likewise with only Picard to show for TNG, Sisko for DS9 and Kirk & Scotty for TWOK.

I find it funny that the original announcements hinted that the line wasn't complete w/o the cylons - but as they're spinning their answers in the Q & A, they really think they've done a good job of rounding out the cast...

I really hope they can rescue at least the cylons at Toyfair.

You see, this is where i differ from a lot of you. I probably haven't helped the line, but i NEVER pre-order anything, and for these reasons. You just can't be sure anymore. Also, i think DST is relying too much on pre-orders these days, especially on the specialty market. Some of us just like LCSmates or don't trust the internet (i'm the first of the two), and just because pre-orders are low is not a real reason to hold and entire two waves and a box set. Hell, i hardly ever buy full waves at one time, and if i go to buy more (such as a case) i can't afford 60-something all at one time, mostly for packs i DON'T want more of. I know i'm still just a teen and i really don't have a full grasp on market-know-how or cash and stocks and crap, but seriously DST; you may be giving us something beautiful (i hope) at ToyFair, but this wasn't one of your better ideas. Shame it WAS one of your better lines.

[murderofcrows]

I am really sad to hear that some of the die hards are losing their love for minimates.

I can understand the frustration as lines die...the loss of DC floored me.

If Marvel were to go by the way side, i know i would be done...but even then...when minimates grab a liscence like T2 the T800 alone makes me want to buy it.

The real bitch of it, is it is a business, to make money...if these things sold, they would make all and more... anyways I hope we dont lose anyone...

moc847

[pickle]

Honestly, I am done if there are no more BSG mates. I still want to complete my collection thus far. Which is only missing the holiday Cylon elf card and if I ever see any BSG prototypes, my pockets will dig deep. I stopped buying Marvel/DC mates a while ago. Mostly because I would rather spend the money on a bust or statue then a case or wave.

I would rather see them do a limited run (maybe 250 pieces or so) on a full set of missing mates (all 18). They could go cheap and just have a solid white box with a BSG sticker on it. Even if it cost $100, I would buy three sets to finish the line and my collection. As I am sure a lot of people would. Maybe I am wrong on this, but a boy can dream

Edited January 21, 2009 by pickle

[captain_cbecker]

This is just heart-breaking. Especially since had the line ended after the next two waves, then things could be considered somewhat complete.

I can't say whose fault all this is, but I'm losing a lot of faith in MiniMates as a line. After losing LotR, DC, 24, Rocky, Star Trek, and BSG, I'm just not sure I want to keep going with things outside of Marvel. I mean, I invest a lot of excitement and spirit into these lines, only to have them cut off midway through while still very incomplete. Not to mention the money I put in. I have no desire to display an incomplete line. At least with Trek, we got the entire TOS bridge crew, but what do I care about just displaying a Sisko or Picard? It makes me feel like I've wasted my money on these lines when there's no commitment to get them complete.

I get that DST has to make ends meet, and maybe I should appreciate what I get, but I'm not in it to be a guinea pig for lines. Take the money that goes into dead ends like Silence of the Lambs or the Man with No Name or most all of these other movie lines, and put it into lines like BSG or Trek. It just feels like they'd rather halfway do a bunch of lines than go whole hog with a few.

Ugh, I guess I'm just having trouble with the whole situation, and it's shaking my foundation in 'Mates as a whole. I've been buying these dudes since 3" Trek, so I'm not a fairweather fan, either.

Agreed -

I don't know if DST isn't spending enough effort marketing or finding the right retail channels, or if there is really just no interest in these products. This problem doesn't seem limited to minimates though - since a similar problem occurred with the AA Enterprise 7" characters... 1/2 through a complete set, fans are dangling without principal characters - in some cases there was a build-a bridge set and they aborted before completing, leaving fans with about 3/5 of a Enterprise bridge. Though I am not a completist, in terms of a full product line, I am a completist with regard to things like bridge crews and the BSG cast. I have diligently been out there placing pre-orders as early as possible, in order to make sure that I can get sets to complete my collections. I kinda feel hosed on this so close to the end and likewise with only Picard to show for TNG, Sisko for DS9 and Kirk & Scotty for TWOK.

I find it funny that the original announcements hinted that the line wasn't complete w/o the cylons - but as they're spinning their answers in the Q & A, they really think they've done a good job of rounding out the cast...

I really hope they can rescue at least the cylons at Toyfair.

You see, this is where i differ from a lot of you. I probably haven't helped the line, but i NEVER pre-order anything, and for these reasons. You just can't be sure anymore. Also, i think DST is relying too much on pre-orders these days, especially on the specialty market. Some of us just like LCSmates or don't trust the internet (i'm the first of the two), and just because pre-orders are low is not a real reason to hold and entire two waves and a box set. Hell, i hardly ever buy full waves at one time, and if i go to buy more (such as a case) i can't afford 60-something all at one time, mostly for packs i DON'T want more of. I know i'm still just a teen and i really don't have a full grasp on market-know-how or cash and stocks and crap, but seriously DST; you may be giving us something beautiful (i hope) at ToyFair, but this wasn't one of your better ideas. Shame it WAS one of your better lines.

This makes an interesting point...

DST obviously looks to pre-sales as a means to gauge a line's viability... and given that the internet, including the DST website, are big conduits for pre-sales, there isn't much to entice an LCS to buy a lot of items for stock - partially because they know that many hardcore fanse are pre-ordering, partially because e-commerce is very popular and partially because they cannot rely on their orders being filled (in the case of a cancelled line). Even worse, the places that may be inclined to carry ST and BSG mates (and LOTR, 24, Rocky) or may have a better fit for those lines (Suncoast, FYE, Urban Outfitters) are not the types of places that place orders from Previews, nor are they particularly amenable to taking requests from their customers.

[Onyx_6]

I would rather see them do a limited run (maybe 250 pieces or so) on a full set of missing mates (all 18). They could go cheap and just have a solid white box with a BSG sticker on it. Even if it cost $100, I would buy three sets to finish the line and my collection. As I am sure a lot of people would. Maybe I am wrong on this, but a boy can dream

This was kind of what I was thinking. If there were some way to do a limited release of these I would be all in. I like this idea and would buy at least two, maybe three if it were this format.

What I cannot grasp is how many they feel they need to sell (or have pre-ordered) for a line to be viable. The Marvel movie mated were released in case numbers up to 850 if I am not mistaken. If it is the same for BSG or even slightly less, what percent would have to be pre-ordered. I know I put in for two sets of each wave from BBTS. But this brings me to another point: how can BBTS and other stores sell complete sets, never offering the individual packs if all they can get are cases.

What happens to the extra packs? They have to be part of the reason that BSG minimates last so long in stores, no one can order a non-variant wave. If the cases that online retailers get contain three complete sets, as oppose to a 'normal case,' why can't my LCS get a case like that. This would allow them to sell sets and not be saddled with extras of sets like President Adama and Romo. I would think offering this type of case to others would help improve sales. But maybe this too, is wishful thinking.

[Big Ape]

This makes an interesting point...

DST obviously looks to pre-sales as a means to gauge a line's viability... and given that the internet, including the DST website, are big conduits for pre-sales, there isn't much to entice an LCS to buy a lot of items for stock - partially because they know that many hardcore fanse are pre-ordering, partially because e-commerce is very popular and partially because they cannot rely on their orders being filled (in the case of a cancelled line). Even worse, the places that may be inclined to carry ST and BSG mates (and LOTR, 24, Rocky) or may have a better fit for those lines (Suncoast, FYE, Urban Outfitters) are not the types of places that place orders from Previews, nor are they particularly amenable to taking requests from their customers.

Not only do they not place orders with Previews, but how many of those stores are available to shop at? If you're barely marketing an item to a store that has closed up locations or no one knows exists, how are you going to make money on the damn things?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Big Ape

[hypno]

Gah...wall of text!

[buttheadsmate]

Gah...wall of text!

Yeah I have to agree . I think you guys are saying some great things but there does need to be a bit of editing of the quotes......especially before Rad clocks it :biggrin: Please.

Edited January 21, 2009 by buttheadsmate

[Jad]

Agreed. It is usually not necessary to quote the previous post when replying. It seems some of the newer members (I'm not naming names) aren't even aware that you can reply without quoting!

[groundhog7s]

Agreed. It is usually not necessary to quote the previous post when replying. It seems some of the newer members (I'm not naming names) aren't even aware that you can reply without quoting!

You can reply without quoting?

[buttheadsmate]

Agreed. It is usually not necessary to quote the previous post when replying. It seems some of the newer members (I'm not naming names) aren't even aware that you can reply without quoting!

You can reply without quoting?

Yes...but don't quote me!

[battlecat]

You see, this is where i differ from a lot of you. I probably haven't helped the line, but i NEVER pre-order anything, and for these reasons. You just can't be sure anymore. Also, i think DST is relying too much on pre-orders these days, especially on the specialty market. Some of us just like LCSmates or don't trust the internet (i'm the first of the two), and just because pre-orders are low is not a real reason to hold and entire two waves and a box set.

Again, you placing a pre-order with an online store shouldn't make any difference whatsoever to the expected sales... If you (and others) always buy up the BSG mates that come into your LCS, then that gives the store a market for them, so they almost certainly would have ordered the new sets. That means you *were* taken into account, but there weren't enough orders elsewhere (presumably from the stores that ordered the last waves and still have them on the shelf).

Our individual pre-orders should make no difference. In the AA Q&A, Chuck doesn't even say "pre-orders", he says "pre-booked orders" and I'm still thinking that clearly implies the collective orders from retailers (not our pre-orders from those retailers).

[Turtle]

Our individual pre-orders should make no difference. In the AA Q&A, Chuck doesn't even say "pre-orders", he says "pre-booked orders" and I'm still thinking that clearly implies the collective orders from retailers (not our pre-orders from those retailers).

That's what I've always thought. Sadly, I think that also means retailer exclusives wouldn't make enough of a difference to warrant production. If they can't meet the production quota among all the stores, I don't know if they will be able to meet a reasonable enough quota with one store/distributor. And it's one thing to offer a single set or figure. It's completely different to offer a set of 4 (3 + variant). But I could be totally wrong.

[hulk197]

Also, getting these things in the stores before, or during, the time the movie is actually in theaters and all the hype is there would help. Spider Man 3, Hulk, Iron Man, all of these I'm sure have done ok, but if they actually had a presence in comic stores and other places like Target / TRU before the movies hit and while they are in theaters then I think DST would see the sales increase. All the movie related mates have been late. Let's see... Spirit? Punisher? Movies are here, where are the minimates? Have they shipped yet? We'll see what happens with the new Terminator movie and the minimates, if they even get made at this point. I don't hold out much hope.

[tones]

This is going a bit off topic, but it's too bad that movie theaters don't have "gift shops" anymore. I remember seeing The Empire Stikes Back in 1980 (yes i'm old ), comming out into the lobby, and MY GOD was there a ton of merchandise for sale. Posters, books, figures, glasses, you name it they had it. It was great and it's a shame it went away. Thats what you call "striking when the iron is hot"!

Back on topic, it seems really odd that ST and BSG are put "on hold" just as both properties are making comebacks ie the final 10 eps of BSG and the new Trek movie. Wouldn't it have made more sense to actually have product available while these were happening? Since TRU is carrying minimates again, and they are stocking Star Trek figures and other stuff, AND some stores have BSG figures (just picked up a Starbuck for $12 ) I find it hard to believe that the ST and BSG minimates couldn't have been shoehorned in.

[Lobsterman]

Sadly, I think that also means retailer exclusives wouldn't make enough of a difference to warrant production. If they can't meet the production quota among all the stores, I don't know if they will be able to meet a reasonable enough quota with one store/distributor.

However, retailer exclusives are either partially or completely funded by that retailer, so it's up to them to determine whether it's "worth it" to do the item. The retailer my have a better bead on what their specific customers will buy, they may have a better mechanism for housing/getting rid of overstock, or they may just do it as a vanity project.

DST obviously has a fixed formula for determining how profitable a line has to be and in what timframe, and Trek and BSG aren't meeting it. They may be retailers out there who have a more flexible formula or the luxury to wait longer for all of the units to sell. That's why I think a retailer exclusive may be a better bet for getting at least some of these to market. Now the trick is talking a retailer into taking it on.

[jjwspider]

All the movie related mates have been late. Let's see... Spirit? Punisher? Movies are here, where are the minimates? Have they shipped yet?

I think this is the perfect question to ask as DST has a terrible track record of actually having product out at the time of the movie's release. Few people are going to be looking for Spirit movie-mates 3-6 months after the movie's release - with the exception of those that are already aware of the figures. However, if these were released in early to mid-December, it could have been displayed in TRU, comic shops, web pages, etc at a time when the movie was being heavily advertised. This could have lead to more impulse buys and perhaps made people more aware of the entire Minimate product line. You never know what line might draw a customer into purchasing a line, wave or product from your company but they are severely limiting their odds for success by not ensuring the product is there to meet the height of demand.

I'll use myself as an example. I think one of the first Minimate sets I ever purchased was a Spider-Man/Gaijun Wolverine two-pack. I admit that at first, I wasn't a huge follower of the MM lines. It wasn't until later that I started trying to complete my Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider collection that I began to realize the wide swath of variety available in these awesome 2" lines. Now, my collection has expanded from Marvel to DC, Star Trek, BSG, Speed Racer, Street Fighter and a few LOTR mates. I've even started trying to re-collect the LOTR waves that I missed or didn't care for originally. IMO, to be successful, DST needs to market these to the big events (Marvel Secret Invasion, new Star Trek movie, BSG's return, Caprica's premiere, BSG SciFi movie, etc) and ensure the product is available before these big event dates. Without doing so, they've already fallen behind and are playing catch up, hoping to catch unaware customers with products that are released after the major events have occurred. Maybe some more cross-promotion would help as well. For example, advertising the BSG minimates on SciFi's BSG Webisode page, or Star Trek mates on Star Trek.com, etc.....

[Turtle]

However, retailer exclusives are either partially or completely funded by that retailer, so it's up to them to determine whether it's "worth it" to do the item. The retailer my have a better bead on what their specific customers will buy, they may have a better mechanism for housing/getting rid of overstock, or they may just do it as a vanity project.

Very true. So now I guess we need to drum up retailer support for exclusives. How many weeks until Toyfair? What retailers would be good candidates?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Turtle

[battlecat]

Haven't the only retailer exclusive sets been from AFX, or were there others? It's hard to remember since they generally end up being sold to/through BBTS and the other online stores too, plus some of them have ended up at my LCS months later (not sure if the leftovers get solicited through Diamond, or my comic shop just buys from AFX?)...

Anyway, I'd suggest bugging AFX...

Re: DST's "timing issues" they've addressed the movie question plenty of times in the past, about how the creation of a minimate set generally takes longer than the amount of time they're given (ie. they get movie character designs given to them too close to the release date to have them on shelves in time). It looks like they're really trying with the Wolvie flick though, so at least they're aware of it.

As you say, timing releases to accompany a surge of interest is another problem though -- although with BSG it seemed like they had it timed perfectly, since the Caprica set/new waves would have come out this winter/spring as the series returned and came to its big finish. If they couldn't get the retailer interest now, of all times, it's understandable that they'd question putting these out.