The Graysons, wtf!!!!

[winkerbean]

i just had to comment on this

http://www.superherohype.com/news/batmannews.php?id=7696

this has to be the worst idea since...... well ever, who wants to see a show about Robin before he meets Batman and becomes Robin....

[buttheadsmate]

Despite my affection for the comic & movie incarnations of Batman (Dark Knight etc.) once Robin gets involved it all goes 'tits up' . In the 60's TV series which I loved we had the 'camp duo' Batman AND Robin & it was all great fun . Fortunately the initial Batman franchise altered people's conception of Batman as have the latest two movie offerings ,Batman is now perceived as a serious 'darker' figure. Don't get me wrong the new show might be a success with the target ,younger audiences but Robin will always perceived as 'cakey' . Batman 'grew up' .......unfortunately Robin will always be 'Boy Wonder' .

[Trekker 42]

Epic fail. Epic fail. Now if they did this with Batman, it would kick ass. But Robin? No way. total fail. He didn't even have any cool villains until he met Batman. Then he just stole Batman's villains. Lam.

[karamazov80]

Personally, I like Robin. I agree with BHM that the contemporary story of a dark, realistic, gritty Batman seems to make much more sense without a colorful decoy child as sidekick. However, when I first got into Batman as a kid, it was Batman and Robin. It was campy, fun, and Robin gave kids someone to identify with. The whole "adult" tone of the recent Batman films kind of annoys me in this sense, because, as much as I love what Frank Miller has done for the character, and as much as I love the Chris Nolan films, Batman is a cartoon/comic character for little kids, but little kids can't (read: shouldn't) even watch the new Batman films.

But having said all that, this tv show sounds absolutely stupid. If it was young Robin after he joined up with Bats, then it could follow him becoming a Teen Titan, dealing with nemeses like Deathstroke, etc. But what the hell is this? He shouldn't fight crime, because that would be stupid, but I'm sure that he will. He will also, I'm sure, run into high school age versions of Oswald Cobblepot and Roy Harper, etc., but that will also be stupid, as it was with Smallville. I understand wanting to duplicate the success of Smallville, but I don't see this particular idea working at all. Wonder Woman as a teenager before becoming an adult might make more sense.

Edited October 1, 2008 by karamazov80

[MinimateEspo25]

i'd much rather have a series about robin, that just focused on him in the costume, starting out, but on adventures without batman. that means, he lives at wayne manner, with wayne and alfred, but batman does not join him on his missions. kind of like the robin comic

[Nestlé]

Despite what you guys may think the "new" Btaman actually NEEDS Robin.

Continuity has it that Batman continues to become more and more dark until he borders being a villain himself. Robin is his light.

That said, this is a dumb idea.

[MinimateEspo25]

i've always thought robin is a really good character, its always the implementation that is off. batman can be dark and have a child (teenager) working with him. i mean, if you really think about it, that is a seriously F-ed up situation, and is kind of dark, if you need an example, albeit much more hardcore, Mark Millar's Kick-ass, the girl in that book is ten and is a killer. a good writer can make robin work in any setting, its just finding a good writer who takes robin seriously.

[karamazov80]

I'm just pulling this further and further off topic, but. . .I understand that comic book readers have become more sophisticated, as it has become more acceptable for adults to read them. As a result, writers have had to retroactively explain the purpose that Robin serves to the story. Ultimately, though, recall that he was created in order to attract kids. He gives kids someone to identify with. My little nephew loves Robin, because he pretends that he could be Robin. That is why Robin exists. I don't think that the Nolan Batman series needs Robin, nor do I think that the character of Batman needs Robin. He only has Robin because he always has, and because we all know who Robin is, and want and like him. Maybe a good writer can pull this off, but the idea that Batman needs a small child dressed up in yellow and green to run around fighting criminals and risking his life, in order to "balance" his darkness, is pretty ridiculous on the surface.

Edited October 1, 2008 by karamazov80

[Fo Shizzle]

Wonder Woman as a teenager before becoming an adult might make more sense.

You beat me to it! This would make a ton more sense as she actually has had adventures while growing up and would make for a good show. Think a revamped Xena.

As for "The Lamesons" Pass.......

Hilarious comment someone left on that board:

"This sounds pretty lame. Who cares about Robin growing up? Who will his arch-nemesis be I wonder? Oh, no! It's...PUBERTY!!!"

[drgnrbrn316]

I have to say that this wouldn't make for much in the way of compelling television. I'm no DC fan, so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Robin's life get interesting after his parents die and his way of life is changed forever? Before, he was a normal guy. He didn't fight crime, he didn't have adventures, he didn't solve mysteries. He was just an acrobat like the rest of his clan. Hasn't Lifetime pretty much shown us all there is to show in the "youth struggling with the pressures of gymnastics" genre of television? Watching a young Bruce Wayne growing up without his parents and becoming the eventual crime fighter known as Batman would be interesting to watch. Watching a little boy prance around in gymnastic routines and have absolutely nothing of great interest happen to him seems rather dull. That being said, I'm sure some creative licenses will be taken, and Robin will likely end up battling an inner-city gang with a robot sidekick before it is all said and done.

Also, why is Robin now known as DJ for this show? Are they scared the censors wouldn't let him be called Dick?

[neolego]

Funny thing, I just read this story and came here to post on it. Looks like someone beat me to it .

Let me start with the talk about the Nolan films. I DISAGREE with the statement that when Robin comes in things go "tits up". I believe it is all in how it's done! I do AGREE with Nestle and feel that Robin is a MUCH needed part of Nolan's story and I think that it's the natural progression. But again, it's all in how it handles. What Nolan needs to do take Batman 3 into the Darkest place yet with Batman trully being Gotham's Villian. Progress that and show how Bruce is being lost to the Mask. Then, Introduce Dick into the story and have him and bruce form a relationship. No tights, I wouldn't even let Dick find out about Batman until Batman 4 (or at least at the very end of the Batman 3). Then introduce Robin into Batman 4. The point is though, like Nestle said, Bruce is a mask that Batman wears, and Batman is a certified crazy man, just as crazy as the villains he fights. Robin has always been that "light", that "Rope" that held Batman on the sane side of life. He is as important to the Batman story as the cowl is!

Now, onto the subject at hand, The Grayson's. I actually LOVE the idea. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I want it. I love the Dick Grayson character. And for those who say that he doesn't become Robin until after his parents die or he can't do it without Bruce Wayne or whatever, just remember that Smallville features Clark meeting Lex while he's in High School and Meets Lois way before going to Metropolis. So, take things for what it's worth. I like Smallville because I can seperate it from the Comics, it doesn't try to be "Comic Accurate", I consider it to be "Ultimate Superman" if you will. So, with that in mind, I can really see the Grayson's following the same pattern. We all know the hero that Robin will become, but this is just more like "Ultimate Robin". All of that being said, I also think this can be handled poorly and become a trash show like "Birds of Prey", so it all depends on the direction they take, the writers, and the actors involved. But, just for fun, here are some things that I would do to make the show awesome:

1: Skip Robin

-Anyone who knows comics knows that Dick eventually becomes Nightwing. I would seperate this show from Batman completely and have Dick (or DJ) work toward the Nightwing mantle, completely skipping the Robin Phase. I think this is important because when people think Robin they don't think Dick Grayson, they think Batman. To base a show off of Robin and no included Batman (and you know they won't, see Smallville for example), would really let the audience down. However, billing the show as the young days of Nightwing would not only build on Dick's charater, but it would allow him to become a hero outside of Batman's shadow! So, first thing I'm talking about in the meeting is Nightwing, not Robin!

2: Ultimate Nightwing

-If anyone has read Ultimate Spiderman, you will kind of know where I'm going with this. Clark in Smallville has a secret that he can't tell anyone about, that is where the Drama comes from. Dick, on the other hand, is a normal kid, so where does the Drama come from? If you read the early issues of Ultimate Spider-Man you will know that Peter strugles with being a nerd and not fitting in. Now, imagine that you're DJ of the Flying Graysons.......you work in a Circus for pete sake. You are about as uncool as you can be. That creates huge drama with school bullies (that can actually beat him up) and even more with girls. On top of that, what always seperated Dick from Bruce is that Dick enjoyed being a hero. He had fun, he loves the thrill, there isn't the obligation like there is for Batman. You can use that to show the playfulness and comedy of the character. Also, having the story without Bruce means that Dick will have to Train somewhere with someone. That could be a huge, Karate Kid, kinda thing. Teaching Dick how to fight, but also learning the desire not too.

3: Family Ties

-The show is called "The Grayson's", so it needs a health dose of Mom and Dad. Of all the stories that have been written, none get too deep into Mom and Dad's history. How'd they meet, when did they marry, did they enjoy the Circus, who trained them, etc. Mom and Dad could have a HUGE impact on the depth of the show because their stories have never been written. I sort of liken it to Lional Luthor from Smallville. We don't know anything about Lex's dad really, so he is given a clean slate and one of the best TV actors in the business to make it work, and it does. Mom and Dad really have the potential to be the breakouts that the show will need to build an audience.

4: Adversary

-So, Dick needs something to punch right? It can't be a hero show without a protagonist or bad guy. So, who do we fight? I think that Mom and Dad should have issues with Circus Management. Maybe they are the biggest draw but the lowest paid or maybe they are backmailed by the "Ringmaster", who knows, whatever, Mom and Dad need to be standing for something. As for DJ, I think they should lay off the "Freak of the Week" routne. I would rather them made his Adversary high school. I'm not sure if anyone has seen an old show called "Everwood", but I would liken my view of Dick in high school to Ephrams. He is an outsider, he doesn't belong. Make it more about Drama. Sure, as the season progresses he should be training and maybe stop a crime in action. Then learn he can be more than just a high school kid, but I don't think it should be a weekly, standard, super hero type pace. I'd like to see a realistic, dramatic take on the character.

5: The Outsiders

-If you are going with Nightwing, I would continue with the "Outsiders" and not the Teen Titans. I'd like to see further into the show (not season 1) them start to introduce characters that will help Dick along the way. Speedy and Star Fire for sure. Maybe even making several of them full time cast member later down the road, but keeping it less showey/flashy/overthetop and more gritty, behind the scenes kinda stuff. However, I do think that Dick is always better when he's with a team, whether it be the Outsiders or the Bat Gang.

Well, there you have it. There are some ideas that I would include. But overall I'm excited. I love the idea and I think that if you take it out of Batman Continuity and make it "Ultimate Robin" (or Nightwing), like they have Smallville, it can be enjoyed greatly! Here's hopeing for the best! neo

[Mattallica]

what's next a Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog series?

nice job DC, you suck!

[Joe Hill]

I am okay with everything but "DJ."

When I think of DJ I have two spots in my mind already filled:

1) The eldest of Danny Tanner's daughters (and in my opinion the one that turned out the prettiest).

2) Roseanne's weird son.

They should just go with "Dick." If the viewer isn't mature enough to handle that, then they shouldn't be watching the show anyhow.

Also, bonus points to anybody who knows what "DJ shows" I am referring to.

[blacksun1520]

Also, bonus points to anybody who knows what "DJ shows" I am referring to.

That would be Full House and Roseanne.

BS

[buttheadsmate]

They should just go with "Dick." If the viewer isn't mature enough to handle that....

That's exactly why 'Dick' is out . I personally can handle 'Dick' but I prefer not to have 'Dick' in

"Dick Grayson ?"

"Why yes!?"

"Well don't hang it out in November"

bhm (immature & proud of it)

[Trekker 42]

I don't think you can have a show about Dick (or DJ) Grayson without some reference to Batman characters. I almost think they should have DJ have two mentors: one a moral and one a fighter. Neither in his family. The fighter can be some new guy, but how about as a moral mentor you have a young man at Gotham University (And yes, it has to be set in Gotham) who is doing rather well at law studies, but is in financial trouble but weathers through it and stands his ground like te good person he is. Someone with father issues and it never gets to him but he doesn't show it. It's there, but its another side to him. A darker side. Some young college student name Harvey Dent. Just someone for DJ to look up to.

[karamazov80]

If this show ever made it past a pilot (which I don't suspect that it will given the stupid premise) then I have absolutely no doubt that he would run into every villain in Batman's rogues gallery, as well as all of his friends and acquaintances, in some form or another. That's what they did with that stupid Smallville show, too. If they want to do a DC character into a TV show, why not just put the damn character in the show as we know them!? Make an actual Batman tv show, or Wonder Woman, or B'Wanna Beast, or Captain Kangaroo (edit: I meant Captain Carrot. . .obviously, the masterpiece of Captain Kangaroo could never be matched), or whatever. Not Robin when he was at the circus, Superman's daughter in the future, the life and times of Hal Jordan's parents, etc.

Edited October 2, 2008 by karamazov80

[Twisted Two-Face]

If this show ever made it past a pilot (which I don't suspect that it will given the stupid premise) then I have absolutely no doubt that he would run into every villain in Batman's rogues gallery, as well as all of his friends and acquaintances, in some form or another. That's what they did with that stupid Smallville show, too. If they want to do a DC character into a TV show, why not just put the damn character in the show as we know them!? Make an actual Batman tv show, or Wonder Woman, or B'Wanna Beast, or Captain Kangaroo, or whatever. Not Robin when he was at the circus, Superman's daughter in the future, the life and times of Hal Jordan's parents, etc.

Hey, don't mess with the Smallville! (Sorry, "Don't mess with the Zohan commercial was on...) It really ain't that bad of a show.

Now, about the Graysons show; it will truly live up to its name. Guys i mean it; and his name is freaking DICK!! :tongue:

It really looks like it'll suck, but if i get a high-school Poison Ivy out of it then i'm set...

Edited October 2, 2008 by Twisted Two-Face

[Trekker 42]

Hey, don't mess with the Smallville! (Sorry, "Don't mess with the Zohan commercial was on...) It really ain't that bad of a show.

Seasons 2-6 weren't bad. Season 1 and 7 were pretty bad. Nothing happened in 1 and too much happened in 7. 8 is OK so far, but I prefer Heroes.

[Nestlé]

I love Dick Grayson, don't get me wrong. He's one of my favorite DC characters, but there's nothing they can do with him when he lived a normal life.

That said, the idea of him starting out as Robin, or something along those lines is good.

Also, his full name is Richard. (I'm pretty sure)

Why DJ? That's retarded.

[Twisted Two-Face]

I love Dick Grayson, don't get me wrong. He's one of my favorite DC characters, but there's nothing they can do with him when he lived a normal life.

That said, the idea of him starting out as Robin, or something along those lines is good.

Also, his full name is Richard. (I'm pretty sure)

Why DJ? That's retarded.

It is...and DJ is sadly one of the only retarded things DC has done. They pick they're worst thing to do to be Dick's name?! Not impressed. Hell, maybe DC will hear our complaints and change his name to DJ in a series of flashback segments when he's five or something...At least then it'll be cute.

[Joe Hill]

Also, bonus points to anybody who knows what "DJ shows" I am referring to.

That would be Full House and Roseanne.

BS

Well done!

But I agree, this show is bound to be just like Smallville. I remember Pre-Smallville, when originally a 'Bruce Wayne becoming Batman' show was in development. It was going to have Bruce, Alfred, Harvey Dent, Selina Kyle, Vicky Vale, Jim Gordon etc all as young adults, and have Bruce encounter all his future villains prior to them turning to crime (e.g.: Jonathan Crane as a University Psychology Professor). However, since at the time of development, the Batman license was being developed into a new movie franchise, the TV show never happened. Then came Smallville. So since Nolan has said MANY times how Robin will not be introduced into the new movies, it means he is probably free to have his own TV show.

This is The CW's solution to the soon-to-be ending Smallville and then inability to use Batman in anything.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Joe Hill

[neolego]

I agree, from a behind the scenes stand, this is only a ploy to keep the audience strong. CW is not the strongest Network on TV, but Smallville is one of their strongest shows (if not THE strongest). There is a huge following with Smallville and their plan is to carry that audience into the Grayson's so they don't leave the network. That's just simple buisness! Who knows, they could use the Smallville Cyborb character as a "Mentor" for Dick in the Grayson's. Heck, if they wanted to do it right, they could introduce the Dick character during the last season of Smallville (ala Auqaman) and that would pave the way for his show.

I agree the first big step is getting past the Pilot phase. Things are so early, I don't think the "DJ" name will stick. I also don't know that "The Grayson's" will stick. It sounds more like a old time sitcom. There is still time for development and changes, so we need to be carefull not to jump too far ahead.

But, I still stand by my first impression, I think this is a great idea. It's got my support until they prove me wrong. I love Batman but we aren't going to get Batman. I think if they take this the Nightwing route as I mentioned before, this could be just as good as a Batman series. And I love the idea you guys have of introducing villians during the early years. I would like that Deathstrock and Two-Face should be the 2 main villains. However, I'd love to see Ivy and Riddler and Scarecrow and others. And even more, I love to see a serious love interest in a young Barbara Gordan. Come on, we may not be able to have BatMAN, but BatGIRL is more than practical, and we all know the love story between the two characters. That could be very interesting! neo

[drgnrbrn316]

I dunno. The write up for it seems to indicate that this is going to be more of a coming of age piece, where a boy becomes a man and deals with all the drama that every other teen in the world can identify with, but since its DC based, it'll likely include a bunch of problems that no average person can associate with.

As far as the name, it sucks. For one, only a die-hard Batman/Robin fan would really recognize it for what it is, as the more casual fan only knows Robin for...well, Robin. For two, its bland, and as was mentioned above, doesn't really promote the image of a super-hero teen angst program. They should name it for what it is: either "Smallville: Gotham City", or "Gotham's Creek".

I'm sure this show will fail, since it seems to be trying to ride the coat tails of Smallville, and history has shown that striking television magic once rarely works when you try the same formula again. My negative opinion isn't helped by my overall dislike of the genre of teen angst drama, since basically, you're watching rich, young celebrities get paid to pretend to live the same crappy existence you live, where everything always works out for them in the end. No matter how violent the emotional roller coaster, the guy gets the girl in the end. No matter how badly the team is losing, they win the championship. Never mind that they all look flawless, and generally are popular at school, etc. And even if they are shy or plain looking at the beginning, by the end, they'll be the flawless looking popular kid. It's nothing the average kid can associate with. Smallville took it a step further by incorporating super powers into the mix. Why I remember the problems I had when I discovered I could run really, really fast. Talk about awkward indeed!

[winkerbean]

update:

The CW and Warner Bros. TV have been forced to scrap their plans for "The Graysons," reports Variety. The show, which had been given a put pilot commitment, was set to revolve around Batman sidekick Robin in his pre-Caped Crusader days.

The trade says the decision to yank the project came from Warner Bros. Pictures Group president Jeff Robinov, who initially gave his blessing but changed his mind in recent days.