UA-100768763-1 Jump to content

There goes the Multiverse....


Valo487
 Share

Recommended Posts

Eh?

The feel I get from the news/blurbs (as well as the artwork) is that it won't be a reboot, just a shakeup/relaunch.

Less akin to "Ultimate Marvel" more akin to "Heroic Age" from a decade or so back.

Which they've done before, to some extent. Some big shakeup event/rebranding that changes up teams and reshuffles titles. I can't think of a major marvel title that hasn't re-started its numbering at least once. The stupid thing is, once they get back to a major milestone like 500 issues or something, they usually switch back to the original numbering, which annoys the hell out of me. I don't hate that they switch back, I hate that they restart in the first place needlessly. To try to give people an entry point. but in the long run, it's stupid that there are... 20-40 issue blocks in the run of some titles where it's a different title, with different numbering, until eventually it isn't again.

ANYWAY, I suspect that's all this is. Marvel (yet again) trying to give new readers an entry point. There will probably be lots of new #1's, some creative teams shuffled around, and Marvel well sell the idea hard that this is a good place to begin reading if you aren't already, to try to draw in casual readers who see Infinity War. But for mainstay readers... the stories will just... shift gears a bit and keep going as they always do.

ANYWAY...

Big shakeups usually means lots of new costumes for old mainstays, which is always good for minimates, lol. Beats getting old mainstays in the same costumes for the 18th time, haha...

Edited by Gillbob316
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s a wee bit alarmist. For a second I thought you meant this board was closing down!  It’s not a crisis or Secret Wars but a Marvel Now like jumping on (or off) point. It’s another marketing tool to try to fix the real issue: comic sales are down.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, good for them.  For me, I think it's time to finally officially bow out.

I just wish they would stop perpetuating this myth that issues ones are the only place that new readers will jump on a book.  For adults that certainly true.  I've talked to many new adult fans who would rather they have a neat, self-contained run with a deliberate beginning middle and end with no time for the sprawling, never-ending soap opera that Marvel Comics was for the majority of its history.  You know who doesn't care about all that? Kids.  I started reading Spider-Man when Carnage was introduced which was loaded with weirdo backstories about everything and I loved it.  I didn't see it as a unsurmountable task or nonsense I didn't have time for; I saw it as something exciting that I couldn't wait to pull apart and learn all about.  I'd argue that kids today are mostly the same.  They want something that's worth their money (for example, each issue should have some action), that seems important (like something that has decades of history behind it), and an easy way to track the story if they want (like a stable numbering system so you know where the issue you have happens in the scope of the character).

Disappointing to say the least.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, funkguerilla said:

Hey, good for them.  For me, I think it's time to finally officially bow out.

I just wish they would stop perpetuating this myth that issues ones are the only place that new readers will jump on a book.  For adults that certainly true.  I've talked to many new adult fans who would rather they have a neat, self-contained run with a deliberate beginning middle and end with no time for the sprawling, never-ending soap opera that Marvel Comics was for the majority of its history.  You know who doesn't care about all that? Kids.  I started reading Spider-Man when Carnage was introduced which was loaded with weirdo backstories about everything and I loved it.  I didn't see it as a unsurmountable task or nonsense I didn't have time for; I saw it as something exciting that I couldn't wait to pull apart and learn all about.  I'd argue that kids today are mostly the same.  They want something that's worth their money (for example, each issue should have some action), that seems important (like something that has decades of history behind it), and an easy way to track the story if they want (like a stable numbering system so you know where the issue you have happens in the scope of the character).

Disappointing to say the least.  

Agreed. IMHO Marvel and DC really underestimate their audiences and their ability to help themselves. They act like it’s 1986 and we don’t have access to sources to fill in gaps. Also the price point is just a huge barrier to entry. 5 bucks?!? What kid can afford that? At this point it’s just an IP factory that they will milk as long as we keep picking up the books. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I quit buying Marvel comics about 5 years ago. Back in the bronze age, a book would keep a creative team on a book for years. It really gave the writers and artists a chance to develop the characters slowly and you felt like you were going on a journey with them... Later on, the comics became a series of never-ending changes in creative teams, lack of continuity,  unfinished ideas, jarringly different art (even in the middle of a story), gimmicky cross-overs, etc., etc., ad nauseum. After years of being disappointed, I finally threw in the towel... BUT I will always love these characters that I grew up with, I enjoy seeing them come to life on screen, and we now get merchandise of those characters that I never would have even dreamed as a kid and teenager (minimates being way up there on my list).  I guess the only way this effects me is like Gillbob said... more new costumes for some cool looking figs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won’t deny… that entry points are a thing. Because they are. What made it easier for me, in my late teens, to jump back into X-Men, was the “Black Leather” overhaul where Morrison & Casey took over (and meanwhile Claremont branched off into Xtreme X-Men, which was mostly unrelated, but functioned concurrently on its own.) I read all 3 and continued reading most X-Titles from there. It was a new relaunch for the line, and a good jumping on point.

I will also acknowledge that lack of a proper entry point, could and did kill my interest when I was a kid. I remember trying to get into X-Men comics as a kid (being a big fan of the cartoon and all). The 90s. I bought an issue. Couldn’t tell you which one. That issue mostly featured Jean Grey walking around in civilian clothes, having long stints of dialogue with non-dynamic characters I didn’t recognize, about topics I wasn’t familiar with and couldn’t follow. I hated that comic book. It was completely inaccessible to me, as a kid, and I never should have bought it. I remember so few specifics about it because I absorbed that little of it. It was over my head, and not a good entry point at all.

CONVERSELY… what was GREAT for me as a kid, was I found a reprint of Giant-Size X-Men #1. GREAT entry point. Colorful characters. Dynamic. Easy to follow. Easy to understand. Action packed. New story, new team. Introductions (not that I wasn’t familiar with most of these characters from the cartoon already, but still). Now the trouble here is, it was an entry point that predated present day by a few decades. But I did enjoy the hell out of it, and it encouraged me to read a lot of back issues and historical comics as a kid. Because they admittedly WERE easier to follow than… the mess that was modern day 90s comics.

ANYWAY… those are some experiences I had getting INTO paper comics at various points in my life.

What got me off paper comics, and I’m far from the first person to make this complaint, but it’s true nonetheless… was the never-ending torrent of big crossover events. Your House of M’s, Your Decimations, Your Sieges, Your World War Hulks, Your Planet Hulks, Your Civil Wars, etc. One after another.

I love the X-Men. That said, they are an ensemble, a rather LARGE ensemble, and to know what’s going on with every X-Man you CAN NOT read just one book. As such I usually want to follow what’s going on with every given X-Man at any given time, and have to read about ½ a dozen titles, which is already a lot. THEN… Wolverine joins the Avengers. THEN they fight the Avengers. THEN Scarlet Witch wipes out the whole Universe. So I have to pick up a book here, a book there, that I originally had no interest in. Suddenly I’m following new Avengers, and even after the event is over, I want to keep reading it (despite the fact I don’t want to keep buying it)… not to mention all the tie-in limited and 1-Shots. Eventually I’m trying to juggle so many titles I’m buying more than I even CAN read, but I don’t realize it ‘til it’s too late. I’m spending $45 a week for a stack of books and only keeping up w/ 3 of them. Eventually it got too overwhelming and I just… stopped. *Shrug* It was too much. I realize Marvel WANTS to entice us to read and buy more books w/ crossovers… but… eventually they pushed too far and I was just done. It wasn’t a conscious decision. I didn’t do it in protest or to “vote with my dollar” … I just stopped caring. Stopped going to pickup my books on Wednesday. Stopped keeping up. It was too much work.

What got me reading again… truthfully. Was Marvel Unlimited. I NEVER thought I’d be interested in a subscription based comic service, because once you stop paying, you own nothing. So. It felt like a ripoff. BUT… I eventually justified it by saying, “So you can do that for TV w/ Netflix, but you can’t w/ comics for this?” … and I’m glad I did, because I really do love it. So I don’t own anything. Big whoop. It’s WAY easier to keep up with titles. It’s still less money per month, than when I was paying for $45 worth of books per week. The database is huge, I’ve never not been able to find a book or story I wanted to read. You can sort titles by publication date, which makes them very easy to read “in order” even if you’re reading 10 titles simaeltaneously. And if I ever feel the urge to branch away from X-Men, off into Avengers or Spidey for a crossover, I don’t feel guilty or upset over it, because it costs me nothing extra. It’s just there. ALSO part of the subscription. And frankly, swiping a tablet to read is just way easier than fumbling with actual pages, I’ve come to learn.

I’ve lost track of whatever my point was, haha.

I DUNNO… I get entry points. I do think entry points are a good thing. However, I also think… consistency is a good thing, and Marvel at times goes too nuts with the rebrands, the rehashes, the crossovers, and the overhauls. To the point where it can get out of hand and overwhelm longtime readers, if they suddenly feel they have to... buy 5 new titles, just to follow the characters they were previously reading in 2 titles. I agree with the creation of entry points. I agree with occasional shaekups. But they don’t need to restart numbering every time they create a new entry point. Nor launch a torrent of new titles. They don’t need to relaunch the whole brand with a big event either. It’s… a fine line. I guess is my point.

Edited by Gillbob316
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel very similarly to most peeps in this thread. 
For me, growing up, comics were easy enough to follow. Each little thing that needed explaining had a bubble with two lines of text from the editor letting you know something had happened in a previous issue. 
I always felt that the 'jumping on' points were often the X-Men Annuals. They were bigger than a standard issue, and usually told a self-contained, focusing on a few key characters. You got a real sense of who you were reading and what the conflict was.
My first was Uncanny X-Men Annual from 1994. A lot of backstory that I had never read existed for this one issue. To be 100% up to speed you would have had to have read Mutant Massacre & the Apocalypse/Archangle story, but you got enough from the issue to know what had happened. 

I'll echo what most others have said - Marvel could have me back if they were consistent with their storytelling and paid an iota of attention to their timelines. Wolverine can't really function on 4 teams at once. I don't mind the occasional big cross-over event. But I don't need it twice a year as an obvious attempt to get X-Men readers to buy Avengers comics and vice-versa. 

I hope Marvel have fun with their new launch and that they find some stability. For the fans' sake. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, funkguerilla said:

Hey, good for them.  For me, I think it's time to finally officially bow out.

I just wish they would stop perpetuating this myth that issues ones are the only place that new readers will jump on a book.  For adults that certainly true.  I've talked to many new adult fans who would rather they have a neat, self-contained run with a deliberate beginning middle and end with no time for the sprawling, never-ending soap opera that Marvel Comics was for the majority of its history.  You know who doesn't care about all that? Kids.  I started reading Spider-Man when Carnage was introduced which was loaded with weirdo backstories about everything and I loved it.  I didn't see it as a unsurmountable task or nonsense I didn't have time for; I saw it as something exciting that I couldn't wait to pull apart and learn all about.  I'd argue that kids today are mostly the same.  They want something that's worth their money (for example, each issue should have some action), that seems important (like something that has decades of history behind it), and an easy way to track the story if they want (like a stable numbering system so you know where the issue you have happens in the scope of the character).

Disappointing to say the least.  

Agreed, part of the fun was tracking down some of the older issues referenced or piecing the story together.  I grew up in an age where X-Men was ruling the airwaves and Marvel trading cards were all the rage.  Between multiple formats, you could easily learn about most of the Marvel characters and read all about them.  It would seem like this mission would be even easier in this day in age with countless video games (including mobile), cartoons running wild on Disney XD, the countless internet resources and Marvel Unlimited.  Perhaps they should consider moving away from trade building everything, create stories that don't feel drawn out and emphasize "fun".  Finding a cheaper price point for kids and adults wouldn't hurt either - maybe re-introducing an Adventures style book at a $0.99 or $1.99 price point, using newspaper print pages and a glossy cover.  I hope this re-boot helps but since the Disney takeover, it seems that Marvel has been completely lost in the comic world, even as their movies are dominating. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mystery Man said:

Where’s the Fantastic Four?

Also, I wish Thor didn’t have a golden arm. :/

Also, give Dr. Strange his cool cloak back. 

Also, I’m in a gripey mood. 

All I care about is the Fantastic Four. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, NerdyTrev said:

All I care about is the Fantastic Four. 

WHO? :)

The Fresh Start Fantastic Four consist of some new heroes called Mickey, Minnie, Goofy and Donald. Not the best superhero codenames I've heard of but you never know it could be a hit

  Disney-Marvel-Mash-FF.jpg

I googled the image after I wrote the Disney bit. I knew someone had to mashed those 4 as heroes

Edited by MiniFiend UK
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a pretty good summary/analysis of Marvel's SEVEN relaunches in five years:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-not-so-secret-history-of-marvels-seven-relaunches-in-five-years/

I didn't even realize it was that many! I don't think the powers that be at Marvel realize how bad the cumulative effect is upon their readership when they keep stopping and starting like this. It's very hard to get excited for a relaunch when the last one is still so fresh in the mind. And now that we've had so many failures built on top of each other, why should we think this one's going to be any different, especially when the marketing (group shot and new number 1s) is exactly the same as all the other ones?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, force2099 said:

Marvel doesnt know what its doing anymore, all they do is giant crossovers, number ones, and kill a character and bring them back a year later. 

And then blame the fans for sales dropping, but I can hardly think of anything more repetitive and redundant than the last several years of events. It can’t possibly be that....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, force2099 said:

Marvel doesnt know what its doing anymore, all they do is giant crossovers, number ones, and kill a character and bring them back a year later. 

Oh, I think they know what they're doing, they're just going after the short term buck and not thinking about the long term.  Cause I get it, events sell better than regular books, issue ones more than issue 400+s, and you get more press with the death of a character than just doing something interesting with them.  The problem is, however, that every time they do one of those things it kills their baseline readership and eventually that's going to be what does them in.

I remember this thing someone told me in college about Ecstasy; She refused to take it because while it made you feel great while you were on it, you would never feel that good again in your life.  That the drug would hypercharge your endorphine glands (or whatever) and give you the rush, but afterwards you could never produce the same amount with or without drugs.  Seems to me that's what's happened to Marvel.  They found this drug - be it relaunches, events, or press coverage - and are addicted to the rush without realizing that if they keep it up, they'll never achieve those kinds of sales naturally again.

Also also, them blaming fans for anything is just total bullshit.  Back in my day, Marvel listened to the readership and adjusted accordingly not demanded that the readership just fall in line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/23/2018 at 4:32 PM, funkguerilla said:

Oh, I think they know what they're doing, they're just going after the short term buck and not thinking about the long term.  Cause I get it, events sell better than regular books, issue ones more than issue 400+s, and you get more press with the death of a character than just doing something interesting with them.  The problem is, however, that every time they do one of those things it kills their baseline readership and eventually that's going to be what does them in.

I remember this thing someone told me in college about Ecstasy; She refused to take it because while it made you feel great while you were on it, you would never feel that good again in your life.  That the drug would hypercharge your endorphine glands (or whatever) and give you the rush, but afterwards you could never produce the same amount with or without drugs.  Seems to me that's what's happened to Marvel.  They found this drug - be it relaunches, events, or press coverage - and are addicted to the rush without realizing that if they keep it up, they'll never achieve those kinds of sales naturally again.

Also also, them blaming fans for anything is just total bullshit.  Back in my day, Marvel listened to the readership and adjusted accordingly not demanded that the readership just fall in line.

I think your friend was misinformed about ecstasy  :P... other than that, if the drug actually DID work that way, your analogy is excellent and I agree with everything you say LOL. Especially the part about blaming the fans...Total BS and a very bad business practice to boot.

Edited by Chazwinski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...